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Eloriel Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-23-03 09:42 AM
Response to Reply #79
89. Another bi-partisan issue revolves around primaries
IF it's possible to tamper with results, does either party's voters really want someone other than The People selecting their various races' nominees during the primary?

In GA for example, there was a big primary fight between Bob Barr and John Linder for a newly-drawn Congressional district in 2002. While I'm not suggesting there was any vote tampering in this race (I honestly don't know one way or the other and I don't think Diebold machines were in use in that District), we do know that Barr had been uncharacteristically (for a Repug) outspoken about such things as the Patriot Act, and was seen by the administration as a pain in the neck (at best). We also know that this administration doesn't really "appreciate" disloyalty and has gone after disloyal Repugs in the past (think Jeffords, among others). IOW, plenty of "motivation" on their part.

On another subject, IF vote fraud happened in Georgia resulting in the first election of a Repug governor in 130 years, and the defeat of a well-thought-of war hero Senator, what about the Dems who didn't get defeated? Namely, the Secretary of State (who bought the machines in the first place), the Attorney General, and possibly the most curious of all, the Lt. Gov. It seems counterintuitive to me to elect a Repug Gov and re-elect a Dem Lt. Gov.

Eloriel
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  -Attn: Black Box Voting naysayers: What evidence would convince you? BevHarris  Jul-22-03 10:27 PM   #0 
  - I choose A  bahrbearian   Jul-22-03 10:31 PM   #1 
  - Huh?  Eloriel   Jul-22-03 10:44 PM   #8 
     - I think he agrees with Bev...  ianbruce   Jul-22-03 11:00 PM   #14 
  - I happen to be convinced because the code is not open source  lcordero   Jul-22-03 10:32 PM   #2 
  - Voting machine code should by law be open source  Rooktoven   Jul-22-03 11:56 PM   #32 
     - i ...... agree  govegan   Jul-23-03 03:16 PM   #121 
  - i  Clete   Jul-22-03 10:33 PM   #3 
  - Establishing a 'paper trail' is only half the battle!  ParanoidPat   Jul-22-03 11:49 PM   #30 
     - We use scanners in our precinct.  Clete   Jul-23-03 12:37 AM   #43 
  - Evidence of a wrongly declared winner.  unfrigginreal   Jul-22-03 10:35 PM   #4 
  - A Texas County Commision race was overturned last November.  JanMichael   Jul-22-03 10:44 PM   #7 
     - interesting  TinfoilHatProgrammer   Jul-23-03 03:15 AM   #60 
        - Tinfoil: What would it take? Or won't you answer the question?  BevHarris   Jul-23-03 07:57 AM   #68 
           - um  TinfoilHatProgrammer   Jul-23-03 09:27 AM   #83 
              - I believe those machines were optical scans  BevHarris   Jul-23-03 09:38 AM   #88 
                 - more clarification  TinfoilHatProgrammer   Jul-23-03 10:17 AM   #98 
                    - Florida case was ES&S; Bernalillo was Sequoia  BevHarris   Jul-23-03 10:20 AM   #100 
  - I was convinced in 2000.  aquart   Jul-22-03 10:41 PM   #5 
  - I have a report that Diebold counted 40% of Florida in 2000  BevHarris   Jul-23-03 12:47 AM   #46 
  - As a skeptic  dsc   Jul-22-03 10:42 PM   #6 
  - Accounting  Clete   Jul-22-03 10:54 PM   #12 
     - my NW suburban Chicago precinct has.....butterfly ballots  julka   Jul-22-03 11:35 PM   #28 
     - What state are you in and have you checked your election laws lately?  ParanoidPat   Jul-23-03 12:25 AM   #40 
        - Oh my gosh, LOL, great writing -- can I repeat what you just said?  BevHarris   Jul-23-03 12:31 AM   #41 
        - Of course!  ParanoidPat   Jul-23-03 12:53 AM   #49 
        - As a retired bookkeeper I assumed that  Clete   Jul-23-03 12:42 AM   #45 
           - I so appreciate input from bookkeeping and accounting  BevHarris   Jul-23-03 01:04 AM   #52 
  - Replacing Doug Jones Link  preciousdove   Jul-22-03 10:46 PM   #9 
  - Thanks. Remember Doug Jones link, and look to (c) and (f) above  BevHarris   Jul-22-03 11:18 PM   #20 
  - i  Eloriel   Jul-22-03 10:47 PM   #10 
  - LOL, speak for me anytime you want!  DEMActivist   Jul-22-03 11:14 PM   #19 
  - ROTFLMAO  Eloriel   Jul-22-03 11:21 PM   #21 
  - Sitting here in Georgia, in Cynthia McKinney's former district...  onehandle   Jul-23-03 12:40 AM   #44 
     - I repeat: What will it take (select above options) to convince you  BevHarris   Jul-23-03 12:50 AM   #48 
     - Rather than rely on your 'first hand' account....  ParanoidPat   Jul-23-03 01:32 AM   #54 
  - I was convinced the first time I used an electronic voting  SharonAnn   Jul-22-03 10:51 PM   #11 
  - I can't help you...  deseo   Jul-22-03 10:56 PM   #13 
  - Yes, it's difficult to prove they've been tampered with ....  SharonAnn   Jul-22-03 11:25 PM   #23 
  - professional question, from one programmer to another  TinfoilHatProgrammer   Jul-23-03 03:23 AM   #61 
     - Answer the question, don't hijack the topic (again)  BevHarris   Jul-23-03 08:09 AM   #71 
        - um  TinfoilHatProgrammer   Jul-23-03 09:32 AM   #84 
           - Your answer was in post #59. Downthread.  BevHarris   Jul-23-03 10:00 AM   #94 
  - Option i  ibegurpard   Jul-22-03 11:01 PM   #15 
  - I. / I was pretty convinced there were problems after the 2002 elections  shance   Jul-22-03 11:10 PM   #16 
  - I haven't seen any DUers poo-poo that they might be rigged  Cocoa   Jul-22-03 11:14 PM   #17 
  - But I asked this question, Cocoa (and thanks for responding)  BevHarris   Jul-22-03 11:22 PM   #22 
  - ??????  Eloriel   Jul-22-03 11:26 PM   #24 
  - Option b ...  white_rider   Jul-22-03 11:14 PM   #18 
  - Any DUer that would poo-poo this must be full of shit n/t  Dude_CalmDown   Jul-22-03 11:29 PM   #25 
  - LOL, thanks for that.  BevHarris   Jul-22-03 11:34 PM   #27 
  - Option i, as you would have to UNconvince me.  madfloridian   Jul-22-03 11:33 PM   #26 
  - A question for you, madfloridian  Eloriel   Jul-22-03 11:51 PM   #31 
     - I remember NO coverage at all.  madfloridian   Jul-23-03 01:21 AM   #53 
     - St. Petersburg Times  nomatrix   Jul-23-03 07:20 PM   #130 
  - dupe of other post.....my precinct still uses butterfly ballots  julka   Jul-22-03 11:37 PM   #29 
  - Well if it's a Diebold Opti-Scan....  ParanoidPat   Jul-23-03 01:44 AM   #56 
     - Cook County Illinois here  hedda_foil   Jul-23-03 11:22 AM   #105 
  - Can someone please explain...  The Night Owl   Jul-22-03 11:56 PM   #33 
  - The stories aren't being ignored.  BevHarris   Jul-23-03 12:01 AM   #34 
     - The media might be slow to pick up ...  white_rider   Jul-23-03 12:13 AM   #37 
        - They aren't slow on pick up, this time.  BevHarris   Jul-23-03 12:19 AM   #39 
           - The turn around time for investigative reporters is not a short one.  davsand   Jul-23-03 01:01 AM   #50 
           - Its been somewhat discouraging ...  white_rider   Jul-23-03 01:02 AM   #51 
  - I'd like a slice of "g)" please.  JetJaguar   Jul-23-03 12:03 AM   #35 
  - Woo-hoo! Something in the book, but I hadn't put much out on that  BevHarris   Jul-23-03 12:07 AM   #36 
     - Merlot is my personal fave  Eloriel   Jul-23-03 12:19 AM   #38 
     - Just the fact the code is there....  RedEagle   Jul-23-03 12:35 AM   #42 
  - i, and for very good reasons  angka   Jul-23-03 12:48 AM   #47 
  - i  noiretblu   Jul-23-03 01:33 AM   #55 
  - Re: Accounting help -- If and when they ever formally  BevHarris   Jul-23-03 08:07 AM   #70 
     - really important issues  noiretblu   Jul-24-03 01:45 PM   #148 
        - You are a find! Thank you, and you will hear from me.  BevHarris   Jul-24-03 02:06 PM   #149 
  - c, d, f, & h (h is a biggie). e & g would be nice, too. Go for it. nt  Wonk   Jul-23-03 01:50 AM   #57 
  - I am an "i" person since 2000 - and I would add a "J"  DagmarK   Jul-23-03 01:57 AM   #58 
  - why assume it's the politicians who rig? I'd vote for corporate folks,  BevHarris   Jul-23-03 08:13 AM   #72 
     - Because at the initial voting fraud impementation stage  DagmarK   Jul-23-03 12:21 PM   #107 
        - You make good points.  BevHarris   Jul-23-03 12:40 PM   #109 
           - I do understand where you are coming from with the corps.....  DagmarK   Jul-23-03 12:55 PM   #112 
           - It seems that the IFES has already figured that out!  ParanoidPat   Jul-23-03 05:48 PM   #127 
  - show me the code  TinfoilHatProgrammer   Jul-23-03 03:06 AM   #59 
  - How does one "routinely " dismiss someone having 25 posts?  ianbruce   Jul-23-03 05:46 AM   #62 
  - Heh. Nice graphic n/t  BevHarris   Jul-23-03 08:35 AM   #78 
  - Thanks Bev. I get inspired sometimes.  ianbruce   Jul-23-03 12:53 PM   #111 
     - Liked your analogy --  BevHarris   Jul-23-03 12:57 PM   #113 
  - well done  TinfoilHatProgrammer   Jul-23-03 09:37 AM   #87 
  - I look forward to asking you to eat your shoes  BevHarris   Jul-23-03 08:26 AM   #74 
     - some clarification  TinfoilHatProgrammer   Jul-23-03 09:18 AM   #82 
        - So that tinfoil's credibility may be properly assessed:  BevHarris   Jul-23-03 09:33 AM   #85 
           - And in his spare time, too!  Eloriel   Jul-23-03 09:50 AM   #91 
           - more dismissal  TinfoilHatProgrammer   Jul-23-03 09:58 AM   #93 
           - Your treatment is entirely warranted  ibegurpard   Jul-23-03 10:03 AM   #96 
           - whatever  TinfoilHatProgrammer   Jul-23-03 10:29 AM   #102 
              - Tinfoil: how did you catch on to the "QuestionW" campaign so quick  DagmarK   Jul-23-03 12:36 PM   #108 
              - But tinfoil is definitely an upgrade  BevHarris   Jul-23-03 12:53 PM   #110 
                 - I think, to be good sports, we should send shoes to tinfoil......  DagmarK   Jul-23-03 01:03 PM   #114 
                    - a few ways to prepare shoe  angka   Jul-23-03 04:08 PM   #123 
              - Deleted message  Name removed   Jul-23-03 02:56 PM   #119 
                 - For the Sake of Argument  DoveTurnedHawk   Jul-23-03 11:00 PM   #133 
                    - Some quick answers....  ParanoidPat   Jul-24-03 12:13 AM   #135 
                       - Here Are Some TFHP Posts and Questions  DoveTurnedHawk   Jul-24-03 01:34 AM   #137 
                          - Perhaps you and TFHP will find some answers here  DEMActivist   Jul-24-03 01:54 AM   #138 
                          - Rather than provide you with what I think....  ParanoidPat   Jul-24-03 01:57 AM   #139 
                             - I Certainly *Hope* So, But  DoveTurnedHawk   Jul-24-03 02:00 AM   #140 
                                - Once again you accuse us of making that claim!  ParanoidPat   Jul-24-03 03:48 AM   #142 
                                   - Umm...ParanoidPat?  DoveTurnedHawk   Jul-24-03 03:51 AM   #143 
                                      - Perhaps imply would have been a better choice of a word...  ParanoidPat   Jul-24-03 05:18 AM   #145 
                                         - Too Early To Tell  DoveTurnedHawk   Jul-24-03 11:09 AM   #146 
           - Here we go:  BevHarris   Jul-23-03 10:30 AM   #103 
           - I'll add to Bev's assessment....  ParanoidPat   Jul-23-03 04:56 PM   #124 
              - So ParanoidPat, you're the troubleshooting beta-testing nightmare  BevHarris   Jul-23-03 05:21 PM   #125 
                 - Not just the programmers!  ParanoidPat   Jul-23-03 06:31 PM   #129 
  - This is a complete non-story until you have evidence of actual vote fraud  birdman   Jul-23-03 06:02 AM   #63 
  - I don't think you'd be saying that if it was your local bank  sybylla   Jul-23-03 08:14 AM   #73 
  - Is there anybody who isn't in favor of safeguards ?  birdman   Jul-23-03 08:29 AM   #75 
  - Good, birdman weighs in with an answer.  BevHarris   Jul-23-03 08:30 AM   #76 
  - Hey Bev  Zan_of_Texas   Jul-24-03 06:32 PM   #151 
  - well-said  TinfoilHatProgrammer   Jul-23-03 10:01 AM   #95 
  - it is a story if there are security holes  rman   Jul-23-03 10:26 AM   #101 
  - Is the goal to take down republicans or is it to get a paper trail?  orangepeel68   Jul-23-03 01:18 PM   #116 
  - Since you asked  justicebuilder   Jul-23-03 06:55 AM   #64 
  - And your answer to the question is???  BevHarris   Jul-23-03 08:31 AM   #77 
     - OK. Obviously you are not interested in what I think.  justicebuilder   Jul-23-03 09:00 AM   #80 
        - Still looking for an answer: Take the "Bev" out and substitute  BevHarris   Jul-23-03 09:04 AM   #81 
           - Listen, I'm not even a naysayer  justicebuilder   Jul-23-03 09:35 AM   #86 
              - Thanks for your answers.  BevHarris   Jul-23-03 09:49 AM   #90 
                 - I think you're wrong  justicebuilder   Jul-23-03 10:16 AM   #97 
                    - That's true. Let me explain how I do these investigations  BevHarris   Jul-23-03 10:52 AM   #104 
                       - I hate that too  justicebuilder   Jul-23-03 12:12 PM   #106 
                       - That would be fine and well  SDent   Jul-23-03 02:27 PM   #117 
                          - SDent: You didn't answer the question on the thread  BevHarris   Jul-23-03 03:34 PM   #122 
  - Okay, I'm pretty convinced of "might"  Ivory_Tower   Jul-23-03 07:03 AM   #65 
  - Convincing me and/or the population of DU is meaningless  Mike_from_NoVa   Jul-23-03 07:23 AM   #66 
  - I am certain they CAN and MIGHT be rigged  Sushi_lover   Jul-23-03 07:24 AM   #67 
  - I want a receipt  markus   Jul-23-03 08:07 AM   #69 
  - There are two separate issues: could be and have been  orangepeel68   Jul-23-03 08:54 AM   #79 
  - Another bi-partisan issue revolves around primaries  Eloriel   Jul-23-03 09:42 AM   #89 
  - I'm on the line  John_H   Jul-23-03 09:58 AM   #92 
  - I want to see J  Nederland   Jul-23-03 10:17 AM   #99 
  - Dum Dum question from a layman  nolabels   Jul-23-03 01:11 PM   #115 
  - i) I'm convinced by the "no trail" guarantee  dpbrown   Jul-23-03 02:56 PM   #118 
  - i  PATRICK   Jul-23-03 03:14 PM   #120 
  - I'm not a nay-sayer, I don't think  Mairead   Jul-23-03 05:26 PM   #126 
  - i) Because we all know how THEY are...  alaine   Jul-23-03 06:15 PM   #128 
  - not a naysayer, so choice i  4dog   Jul-23-03 08:03 PM   #131 
  - bev, intent is hard to prove...what is easier to prove is ...  cap   Jul-23-03 10:06 PM   #132 
  - Major media, Major experts: NYT, Johns Hopkins University  BevHarris   Jul-23-03 11:18 PM   #134 
  - d) or e)  Pobeka   Jul-24-03 12:41 AM   #136 
  - The burden of proof...  scottxyz   Jul-24-03 03:36 AM   #141 
  - Two Different Questions..  devarsi   Jul-24-03 04:59 AM   #144 
  - A kick.  BevHarris   Jul-24-03 01:25 PM   #147 
  - speaking as an engineer  gasperc   Jul-24-03 02:46 PM   #150 
  - kickity-kick  loudsue   Jul-24-03 06:57 PM   #152 
 

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