salin
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Mon Oct-27-03 04:01 PM
Response to Original message |
| 10. I think it stems more from Fear than zero tolerance rules |
|
Because I don't know how this would fall under a 'rule'. She didn't have a weapon, she isn't 'threatening' violence (this wasn't a document delivere with a threat). I think it falls into the fear category. The adults in the school are afraid of kids. They think teens are out of control, and assume the worse. Especially after Columbine, but also a few of the earlier shootings, there has been a whole lot of "what signs could have been found" gnashing of teeth. I believe some former FBI agent even wrote a 'psychological profile' of kids that might snap, that was adopted and reviewed by many schools.
The consolidating of schools to make them larger and larger has made it harder for their to be any kind of relationships between students and teachers that can exist in schools of say 300 students and near impossible in schools of say 1800-3000 students. Thus the stereotypes and fear can dominate. Many large high schools, from an organizational stand point, seem to have a sort of institutional depression in which the adults think they can not really change things - all the problems are stacked up too high (its the parents fault, or its the poverty, or its that kids today don't want to learn, etc. etc.). In such an environment, nearly anything out of the norm can instill fear. I might worry about the fantasies expressed by the girl - but rather than advocate expulsion I think I would be more interested in speaking with her and her family, and if things seemed off would be more likely to recommend some kind of counseling rather than suspension/expulsion.
Just my two cents.
|
| -High school girl's diary confiscated and read...and then it gets bad |
ProdigalJunkMail |
Oct-27-03 03:39 PM |
#0 |
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It just goes to show |
Frangible |
Oct-27-03 03:46 PM |
#1 |
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and just what do you say |
dsc |
Oct-27-03 03:49 PM |
#2 |
  -
there is a difference between a threat and a thought |
ProdigalJunkMail |
Oct-27-03 03:51 PM |
#5 |
   -
And no threat has ever occurred without a preceding thought..... |
E_Zapata |
Oct-27-03 04:47 PM |
#21 |
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thinking |
zonmoy |
Oct-28-03 03:54 PM |
#70 |
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Here's what you say |
sangh0 |
Oct-27-03 03:51 PM |
#6 |
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why inject race? |
ProdigalJunkMail |
Oct-27-03 04:19 PM |
#12 |
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I think race (or sociology re race) is an issue |
E_Zapata |
Oct-27-03 04:50 PM |
#22 |
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let's blame it all on whitey |
ProdigalJunkMail |
Oct-27-03 05:12 PM |
#24 |
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Follow the gunfire in the schools...... |
E_Zapata |
Oct-27-03 05:33 PM |
#26 |
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funny... |
ProdigalJunkMail |
Oct-27-03 05:39 PM |
#27 |
  -
Follow the brush fire that killed 12 people in San Diego County |
slackmaster |
Oct-28-03 09:36 AM |
#30 |
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That fire is something else |
ProdigalJunkMail |
Oct-28-03 09:38 AM |
#31 |
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Yes, it's pretty awful |
slackmaster |
Oct-28-03 10:42 AM |
#45 |
  -
actually... |
DoNotRefill |
Oct-29-03 12:11 AM |
#83 |
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Racial profiling |
Bandit |
Oct-28-03 12:57 PM |
#56 |
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for it to be a "threat" it has to be *communicated* |
enki23 |
Oct-27-03 04:31 PM |
#16 |
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I am going to get really FLAMED for this, |
E_Zapata |
Oct-27-03 04:44 PM |
#20 |
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And just how does 'zero tolerance' help? |
Monte Carlo |
Oct-28-03 10:06 AM |
#37 |
 -
yepper |
ProdigalJunkMail |
Oct-27-03 03:49 PM |
#3 |
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spirit of the law... |
elfwitch |
Oct-27-03 03:50 PM |
#4 |
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how can there be any interpretation of Zero Tolerance laws? |
ProdigalJunkMail |
Oct-27-03 03:52 PM |
#7 |
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devil's advocate |
Smirky McChimpster |
Oct-27-03 03:54 PM |
#8 |
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I hear ya, Smirk! |
ProdigalJunkMail |
Oct-27-03 03:57 PM |
# |
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I hear ya, Smirk! |
ProdigalJunkMail |
Oct-27-03 03:57 PM |
#9 |
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I think it stems more from Fear than zero tolerance rules |
salin |
Oct-27-03 04:01 PM |
#10 |
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valuable two cents... |
ProdigalJunkMail |
Oct-27-03 04:04 PM |
#11 |
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lack of good parenting .... for the teachers, or for the kids |
salin |
Oct-27-03 04:19 PM |
#13 |
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big smiley, but the point is... |
ProdigalJunkMail |
Oct-27-03 04:23 PM |
#14 |
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I hear you |
salin |
Oct-27-03 04:29 PM |
#15 |
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Just my .02 |
msmcghee |
Oct-27-03 04:38 PM |
#17 |
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the school did this girl a favor.... |
flush_bush |
Oct-27-03 04:39 PM |
#18 |
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I do hope her writing keeps growing |
ProdigalJunkMail |
Oct-27-03 05:11 PM |
#23 |
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Parents have to hammer it home - NO writing, drawing leaves the house |
DuctapeFatwa |
Oct-27-03 04:40 PM |
#19 |
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it is a shame the world has come to this |
ProdigalJunkMail |
Oct-27-03 05:14 PM |
#25 |
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OFF TOPIC...why was this moved? |
ProdigalJunkMail |
Oct-28-03 08:29 AM |
#28 |
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Hey...we're back |
ProdigalJunkMail |
Oct-28-03 09:32 AM |
#29 |
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welcome to High School |
thebigidea |
Oct-28-03 09:38 AM |
#32 |
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now that I think about it... |
ProdigalJunkMail |
Oct-28-03 09:40 AM |
#33 |
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it's absurd |
Caution |
Oct-28-03 09:48 AM |
#34 |
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this is a preparation, i believe |
ProdigalJunkMail |
Oct-28-03 09:58 AM |
#35 |
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'Zero Tolerance' rules are the antithesis of all reason. |
Monte Carlo |
Oct-28-03 10:03 AM |
#36 |
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illusion is right |
ProdigalJunkMail |
Oct-28-03 10:06 AM |
#38 |
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The most hysterical interpretation wins with zero tolerance. |
Monte Carlo |
Oct-28-03 10:16 AM |
#40 |
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Honestly, had someone boosted one of my notebooks |
Colin Ex |
Oct-28-03 10:10 AM |
#39 |
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this goes to the fact that |
ProdigalJunkMail |
Oct-28-03 10:25 AM |
#43 |
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Yes |
Muddleoftheroad |
Oct-28-03 10:30 AM |
#44 |
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Okay... |
Colin Ex |
Oct-28-03 03:08 PM |
#63 |
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Wrong |
Muddleoftheroad |
Oct-28-03 11:29 PM |
#75 |
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Oh, I get it now... |
Wednesdays |
Oct-29-03 09:18 AM |
#97 |
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Not the same rights as the rest of us |
Muddleoftheroad |
Oct-29-03 09:30 AM |
#100 |
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What the Supreme Court said |
Wednesdays |
Oct-29-03 10:16 AM |
#110 |
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But not the same level of rights |
Muddleoftheroad |
Oct-29-03 11:28 AM |
#113 |
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Not quite |
knight_of_the_star |
Oct-29-03 01:19 PM |
#124 |
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Kids need a better sense of what is and is not |
DemBones DemBones |
Oct-28-03 10:21 AM |
#41 |
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I can certainly see your points...well stated. |
ProdigalJunkMail |
Oct-28-03 10:50 AM |
#47 |
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OK, assume you are that teacher |
Muddleoftheroad |
Oct-28-03 10:58 AM |
#49 |
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Actually, I am a teacher |
ProdigalJunkMail |
Oct-28-03 11:11 AM |
#50 |
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So you trust her |
Muddleoftheroad |
Oct-28-03 12:23 PM |
#54 |
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i disagree |
ProdigalJunkMail |
Oct-28-03 01:26 PM |
#57 |
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Not happy, just not life threatening |
Muddleoftheroad |
Oct-28-03 02:15 PM |
#59 |
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i have a hard time with the comparison |
ProdigalJunkMail |
Oct-28-03 02:44 PM |
#60 |
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Government |
Muddleoftheroad |
Oct-28-03 11:32 PM |
#76 |
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the teacher didn't just find the story |
salin |
Oct-28-03 03:22 PM |
#67 |
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Confiscated |
Muddleoftheroad |
Oct-28-03 11:34 PM |
#77 |
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Was before Columbine - but during the time |
salin |
Oct-29-03 09:25 AM |
#98 |
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And then what? |
Wednesdays |
Oct-29-03 09:29 AM |
#99 |
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Note the word, perhaps |
Muddleoftheroad |
Oct-29-03 09:34 AM |
#102 |
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Um |
Wednesdays |
Oct-29-03 09:49 AM |
#105 |
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Sets and subsets |
Muddleoftheroad |
Oct-29-03 09:52 AM |
#106 |
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Sure, let's look at your analogy |
WhereIsMyFreedom |
Oct-28-03 03:54 PM |
#71 |
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Employment at will |
Muddleoftheroad |
Oct-28-03 11:38 PM |
#78 |
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But I think you are wrong about this specific action |
WhereIsMyFreedom |
Oct-29-03 12:30 AM |
#84 |
  -
Continuing |
Muddleoftheroad |
Oct-29-03 07:01 AM |
#91 |
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please pass me what you are smoking! |
dionysus |
Oct-29-03 10:17 AM |
#111 |
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Sorry, I don't smoke |
Muddleoftheroad |
Oct-29-03 11:30 AM |
#114 |
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Each and every time |
kgfnally |
Oct-28-03 03:00 PM |
#61 |
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The other side |
Muddleoftheroad |
Oct-28-03 10:22 AM |
#42 |
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thought police |
Terwilliger |
Oct-28-03 10:45 AM |
#46 |
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Not thought police at all |
Muddleoftheroad |
Oct-28-03 10:56 AM |
#48 |
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if fiction were a cry for help... all authors would be LOCKED UP |
thebigidea |
Oct-28-03 11:14 AM |
#51 |
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Not at all |
Muddleoftheroad |
Oct-28-03 12:19 PM |
#53 |
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Exhibit A: Stephen King, "RAGE" |
thebigidea |
Oct-28-03 03:14 PM |
#66 |
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Rage |
Muddleoftheroad |
Oct-28-03 11:41 PM |
#80 |
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ah.. |
thebigidea |
Oct-29-03 01:40 AM |
#90 |
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Obvious extension? |
Muddleoftheroad |
Oct-29-03 07:03 AM |
#92 |
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Oh? |
Wednesdays |
Oct-29-03 09:37 AM |
#103 |
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Zero tolerance |
Muddleoftheroad |
Oct-29-03 09:53 AM |
#107 |
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doesn't that post look gorgeous |
thebigidea |
Oct-29-03 09:56 AM |
#109 |
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I don't design zero tolerance policies |
Muddleoftheroad |
Oct-29-03 11:32 AM |
#115 |
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doubleplusgood, citizen |
thebigidea |
Oct-29-03 11:36 AM |
#117 |
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Not doublespeak |
Muddleoftheroad |
Oct-29-03 11:47 AM |
#120 |
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you are wise in the ways of everything and anything, citizen. |
thebigidea |
Oct-29-03 11:57 AM |
#123 |
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Oh My.... |
RobinA |
Oct-28-03 12:17 PM |
#52 |
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The Blunt Truth |
jiacinto |
Oct-28-03 12:26 PM |
#55 |
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wow, I agree with you! |
ProdigalJunkMail |
Oct-28-03 01:29 PM |
#58 |
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I hate zero tolerance rules |
jiacinto |
Oct-28-03 03:09 PM |
#64 |
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This is maddening. |
Zhade |
Oct-28-03 03:02 PM |
#62 |
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Put yourself in the position of that school district |
jiacinto |
Oct-28-03 03:13 PM |
#65 |
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I agree with you completely |
slackmaster |
Oct-28-03 03:33 PM |
#68 |
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School psychologists are typically more |
DemBones DemBones |
Oct-28-03 05:16 PM |
#74 |
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So it is all about liability |
WhereIsMyFreedom |
Oct-28-03 04:04 PM |
#72 |
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That too |
jiacinto |
Oct-28-03 11:39 PM |
#79 |
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Not just liability |
Muddleoftheroad |
Oct-28-03 11:43 PM |
#81 |
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I'm glad I graduated high school before columbine.. |
killbotfactory |
Oct-28-03 03:43 PM |
#69 |
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Maybe the thought of a multi million dollar lawsuit |
jiacinto |
Oct-29-03 12:38 AM |
#86 |
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Zero tolerance policies are problematic, |
DemBones DemBones |
Oct-28-03 05:10 PM |
#73 |
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There's a good reason that we don't do that for |
WhereIsMyFreedom |
Oct-29-03 12:38 AM |
#87 |
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Man, this is BS |
ComerPerro |
Oct-28-03 11:44 PM |
#82 |
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Put yourself in the position of a school system superintendent |
jiacinto |
Oct-29-03 12:35 AM |
#85 |
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Yeah, I agree with that part |
ComerPerro |
Oct-29-03 12:40 AM |
#88 |
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Well it should have been handled differently |
jiacinto |
Oct-29-03 12:45 AM |
#89 |
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Not enough |
Muddleoftheroad |
Oct-29-03 07:05 AM |
#93 |
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or address the over reactions |
salin |
Oct-29-03 09:32 AM |
#101 |
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Not an overreaction |
Muddleoftheroad |
Oct-29-03 09:55 AM |
#108 |
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I see your point there |
jiacinto |
Oct-29-03 01:40 PM |
#126 |
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Boy does this thread make me angry! |
FlaGranny |
Oct-29-03 08:25 AM |
#94 |
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I was a shool kid in the '60s and '70s |
slackmaster |
Oct-29-03 08:38 AM |
#95 |
  -
Oh man...does that take me back |
ProdigalJunkMail |
Oct-29-03 08:58 AM |
#96 |
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ROLF...where did you go to school in the 60s...china? heh n/t |
MrPrax |
Oct-29-03 10:28 AM |
#112 |
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San Diego Unified School District |
slackmaster |
Oct-29-03 01:22 PM |
#125 |
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According to Muddle, you had no right to do that. |
Wednesdays |
Oct-29-03 09:40 AM |
#104 |
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LOL |
Muddleoftheroad |
Oct-29-03 11:33 AM |
#116 |
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what part of 'not a threat' do you not understand? |
ProdigalJunkMail |
Oct-29-03 11:36 AM |
#118 |
  -
Still a threat |
Muddleoftheroad |
Oct-29-03 11:49 AM |
#121 |
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sorry...stories are not threats |
ProdigalJunkMail |
Oct-29-03 11:51 AM |
#122 |
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sure you can,if its fiction |
thebigidea |
Oct-29-03 11:38 AM |
#119 |
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Put yourself in the position of the district superintendent |
jiacinto |
Oct-29-03 01:43 PM |
#127 |
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The schools are in a tough position . . . |
theboss |
Oct-29-03 01:47 PM |
#128 |