You are viewing an obsolete version of the DU website which is no longer supported by the Administrators. Visit The New DU.
Democratic Underground Latest Greatest Lobby Journals Search Options Help Login
Google

Reply #385: Church and Roe vs Wade [View All]

Printer-friendly format Printer-friendly format
Printer-friendly format Email this thread to a friend
Printer-friendly format Bookmark this thread
This topic is archived.
Home » Discuss » Archives » General Discussion (Through 2005) Donate to DU
Roy_C Donating Member (1 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-24-03 09:52 AM
Response to Original message
385. Church and Roe vs Wade
The Roe vs Wade decision was based on common law and was identical to church policy during the Middle Ages.

The key word in Roe is 'quickening', when movements take place in the fetus. Before that, for the church or for civil government, a woman could do as she wished.

Roe vd Wade goes back to that position, which has areas of agreement with the Church which saw the fetus as without soul until quickening.

The Supreme Court's decision was also based on the survivability of the fetus outside the womb. In the last trimester, the fetus can survive, and has.

You have offered no reason as to how this area only concerns women all the way into the third trimester. The court and the Church in the Middle Ages agree with you in the first trimester.

Are you saying that in the week before you would otherwise give birth, it is only your business to abort or not?

Roy C
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
  -Should men have any say in abortion at all? Clete  Oct-22-03 01:53 PM   #0 
  - Generally, no.  GOPisEvil   Oct-22-03 01:57 PM   #1 
  - Excuse me but even if it were your child and she  Clete   Oct-22-03 01:59 PM   #4 
  - Would I make her? No. Not at all.  GOPisEvil   Oct-22-03 02:14 PM   #21 
  - Your opinion is meaningless  Yupster   Oct-22-03 03:12 PM   #68 
     - To whom?  GOPisEvil   Oct-22-03 03:42 PM   #88 
        - Women get to choose whether a man pays  Muddleoftheroad   Oct-22-03 03:56 PM   #91 
           - Yeah, but as a man I know the risks going in.  GOPisEvil   Oct-22-03 04:01 PM   #92 
           - But why wouldn't that same logic apply to women then?  Yupster   Oct-22-03 04:19 PM   #96 
           - In a perfect world there would be no rapists  Nobody   Oct-23-03 05:55 AM   #281 
           - If abortion is legal  Muddleoftheroad   Oct-22-03 04:21 PM   #97 
              - Because he bears 50% responsibility for the creation of a life.  GOPisEvil   Oct-22-03 08:00 PM   #224 
                 - Not under current laws he doesn't.  Devils Advocate NZ   Oct-22-03 08:21 PM   #232 
                    - No, no...maybe I phrased that badly.  GOPisEvil   Oct-22-03 08:38 PM   #236 
                       - Because even after birth the woman has a choice:  Devils Advocate NZ   Oct-23-03 09:15 AM   #306 
                       - i can agree with you if you apply this to both sexes  bearfartinthewoods   Oct-23-03 01:08 PM   #334 
           - The rights of the child (once born) and the rights of the woman carrying  nothingshocksmeanymore   Oct-22-03 05:59 PM   #144 
              - Nevertheless  Muddleoftheroad   Oct-22-03 07:28 PM   #201 
                 - Who ever said justice is fair?  nothingshocksmeanymore   Oct-22-03 07:33 PM   #205 
                 - So you admit this is unjust and unfair?  Muddleoftheroad   Oct-22-03 07:41 PM   #210 
                    - No it is just and you perceive it to be unfair  nothingshocksmeanymore   Oct-22-03 07:46 PM   #213 
                       - You said, "Who ever said justice is fair?"  Muddleoftheroad   Oct-22-03 07:53 PM   #219 
                          - It is clear you can;t distinguish between a child's rights and a woman's  nothingshocksmeanymore   Oct-22-03 07:59 PM   #223 
                             - False distinction  Muddleoftheroad   Oct-22-03 10:01 PM   #248 
                                - YOur analogy is false since the man had total control over his sperm  nothingshocksmeanymore   Oct-22-03 11:32 PM   #259 
                                   - Castrate deadbeat dads all you wish  Muddleoftheroad   Oct-23-03 06:36 AM   #285 
                                   - Actually, logic is YOUR enemy in this, and so is ....  Booberdawg   Oct-23-03 06:45 AM   #288 
                                   - Laws can be changed  Muddleoftheroad   Oct-23-03 06:55 AM   #291 
                                   - LOL! Okay, you go change the law then.  Booberdawg   Oct-23-03 07:08 AM   #293 
                                   - I'm sorry, but I have to disagree....  chefgirl   Oct-23-03 09:13 AM   #305 
                                   - Huh?  Devils Advocate NZ   Oct-23-03 09:28 AM   #310 
                                   - First of all........  chefgirl   Oct-23-03 10:09 AM   #318 
                                   - All pregnancies can be ended  Muddleoftheroad   Oct-23-03 10:46 AM   #323 
                                   - Since you asked....  chefgirl   Oct-23-03 11:09 AM   #325 
                                   - Mixed answer  Muddleoftheroad   Oct-23-03 12:18 PM   #331 
                                   - Does the mother have to pay child support when she adopts the baby out?  Devils Advocate NZ   Oct-23-03 09:32 AM   #311 
                                   - OK let me explain this ONE MORE TIME! FOr those that value repetition  nothingshocksmeanymore   Oct-23-03 12:04 PM   #329 
                                   - Your distinction is false, or did you forget about adoption?  Devils Advocate NZ   Oct-23-03 09:22 AM   #308 
                                      - Take it up with God then  nothingshocksmeanymore   Oct-23-03 12:06 PM   #330 
                                         - Why would I want to take anything up with a mythical deity?  Devils Advocate NZ   Oct-23-03 07:04 PM   #351 
                                            - No I am NOT dodging the issue and am NOT a sexist..a SEXIST would  nothingshocksmeanymore   Oct-23-03 07:18 PM   #355 
                 - here's an idea  Cheswick   Oct-23-03 07:18 PM   #354 
  - I'd consider adoption  kgfnally   Oct-22-03 02:37 PM   #50 
  - RIGHT ON!!!!!!!  HypnoToad   Oct-22-03 07:04 PM   #185 
  - Well,  judge_smales   Oct-22-03 01:58 PM   #2 
  - Sure he could because the child is no longer in her womb.  Clete   Oct-22-03 02:02 PM   #8 
  - But what  judge_smales   Oct-22-03 02:05 PM   #12 
     - You miss the point.  Clete   Oct-22-03 02:11 PM   #17 
  - Decisions  Tansy_Gold   Oct-22-03 02:25 PM   #34 
  - Many men desert their child and never take any part in  Jen72   Oct-22-03 05:51 PM   #140 
  - No. Not until they can either  junker   Oct-22-03 01:59 PM   #3 
  - Does that apply to child support?  Devil Dog Dem   Oct-22-03 01:59 PM   #5 
  - My personal experience has been that  Clete   Oct-22-03 02:09 PM   #15 
  - Sorry but your answer isn't clear  Devil Dog Dem   Oct-22-03 02:18 PM   #26 
     - This post was about reproductive rights not child support.  Clete   Oct-22-03 02:27 PM   #38 
        - You asked if they should have a choice.  Frodo   Oct-22-03 02:53 PM   #63 
           - Where is it written...  LeahMira   Oct-22-03 05:33 PM   #125 
           - Oh. THAT's fair.  Frodo   Oct-22-03 06:21 PM   #164 
           - Another male that confuses an actually born child's rights with the rights  nothingshocksmeanymore   Oct-22-03 06:03 PM   #150 
              - No they are not.  Frodo   Oct-22-03 06:25 PM   #167 
                 - NO the male's obligation is not to an egg but to a child once it is born  nothingshocksmeanymore   Oct-22-03 06:36 PM   #170 
                    - So whether the man has any responsibility or not...  Frodo   Oct-22-03 06:40 PM   #173 
                       - Sorry but your question makes no sense and child support is a matter  nothingshocksmeanymore   Oct-22-03 06:48 PM   #178 
                          - Oh boy.  Frodo   Oct-22-03 07:05 PM   #186 
                             - I think you have it exactly backwards  nothingshocksmeanymore   Oct-22-03 07:19 PM   #192 
  - I'd like to see a man's right to choose  Yupster   Oct-22-03 03:16 PM   #71 
  - I completely agree with you , Yupster  mitchum   Oct-22-03 04:28 PM   #100 
  - These aren't parallel decisions, though.  spooky3   Oct-22-03 06:29 PM   #169 
  - Because the rights of a CHILD and a woman carrying a fetus are not one  nothingshocksmeanymore   Oct-22-03 06:01 PM   #147 
  - Maybe because.....  Jen72   Oct-22-03 06:04 PM   #152 
     - Those are all her choices  Muddleoftheroad   Oct-22-03 07:35 PM   #206 
        - If the issue is men want a choice then why the conversation about burden?  nothingshocksmeanymore   Oct-22-03 07:41 PM   #209 
           - Encumbrance?  Muddleoftheroad   Oct-22-03 07:44 PM   #211 
              - Guess what Muddle? If you are together for say 7 to 10 years in most  nothingshocksmeanymore   Oct-22-03 07:51 PM   #218 
                 - Facts of law vs. facts of biology  Muddleoftheroad   Oct-22-03 07:55 PM   #221 
                    - Oh I see..so instead a man should get to impose a physical risk on a woman  nothingshocksmeanymore   Oct-22-03 08:02 PM   #225 
                       - Actually quite the opposite  Muddleoftheroad   Oct-23-03 06:38 AM   #286 
                          - The law is not on your side.  Booberdawg   Oct-23-03 06:51 AM   #290 
                          - And so the law will be changed  Muddleoftheroad   Oct-23-03 06:57 AM   #292 
                             - It is the CHILD who then has the rights once born, not the woman  Booberdawg   Oct-23-03 08:59 AM   #303 
                                - Laws change  Muddleoftheroad   Oct-23-03 09:41 AM   #313 
                                   - Really? Like the one that contributed 100,000 to Reagan while avoiding  nothingshocksmeanymore   Oct-23-03 01:39 PM   #336 
                                      - The payment of support to the child is not unfair nor one-sided  Tansy_Gold   Oct-23-03 05:30 PM   #338 
                                         - Lol I think you are actually directing that communication to the poster  nothingshocksmeanymore   Oct-23-03 05:48 PM   #341 
                                         - That's OK, the compliments cut both ways  Muddleoftheroad   Oct-23-03 06:05 PM   #347 
                                            - No you are being BABIES about this and it shows  nothingshocksmeanymore   Oct-23-03 07:41 PM   #358 
                                               - Worse than babies.  Tansy_Gold   Oct-23-03 08:41 PM   #359 
                                               - You repeated neglect the obligation women put on men here  Muddleoftheroad   Oct-23-03 09:05 PM   #360 
                                                  - Deleted message  Name removed   Oct-23-03 09:43 PM   #361 
                                                  - What she said  Booberdawg   Oct-23-03 10:36 PM   #364 
                                                  - women don't put it on men -- men put it on themselves.  Tansy_Gold   Oct-23-03 10:18 PM   #363 
                                                  - Yes and you repeatedly neglect the obligation men put on women  nothingshocksmeanymore   Oct-23-03 11:59 PM   #368 
                          - No.  hiphopnation23   Oct-23-03 08:47 AM   #300 
                          - They do get to choose and your responses all operate under the pretense  nothingshocksmeanymore   Oct-23-03 01:35 PM   #335 
  - If I was told I'd caused a pregnancy and she was going to abort it  Feanorcurufinwe   Oct-22-03 02:01 PM   #6 
  - ??  judge_smales   Oct-22-03 02:03 PM   #9 
  - That is a good part  MuseRider   Oct-22-03 02:05 PM   #10 
  - So remember those little rubber thingies?  Clete   Oct-22-03 02:14 PM   #20 
  - The woman that terminates the pregnancy will most  Jen72   Oct-22-03 06:12 PM   #159 
  - I would have to say  MuseRider   Oct-22-03 02:02 PM   #7 
  - Ok, but..  lysergik   Oct-22-03 02:05 PM   #11 
  - So, how do you really want it?  Love Bug   Oct-22-03 02:19 PM   #27 
     - It's pretty much a cottage industry  Yupster   Oct-22-03 03:19 PM   #73 
  - Until they grow a uterus of their very own...  PHDiva   Oct-22-03 02:06 PM   #13 
  - Sure - they always have and always will  goddess40   Oct-22-03 02:07 PM   #14 
  - I totally disagree.  mainegreen   Oct-22-03 02:21 PM   #31 
     - One ride in a car can't make a life long obligation  goddess40   Oct-22-03 02:26 PM   #36 
  - Not in any legislative sense  DisgustipatedinCA   Oct-22-03 02:10 PM   #16 
  - I like that wording  ComerPerro   Oct-22-03 02:30 PM   #40 
  - I'm torn...  redqueen   Oct-22-03 02:14 PM   #18 
  - But why doesn't that same logic apply to women then?  Yupster   Oct-22-03 03:26 PM   #78 
     - Yes, but given that she has that decision...  redqueen   Oct-22-03 03:38 PM   #85 
        - You lost me completely?  Yupster   Oct-22-03 04:22 PM   #98 
  - My husband and I have debated this more than a few times.  Rainbowreflect   Oct-22-03 02:14 PM   #19 
  - If the woman has 100 % of the say, then  Yupster   Oct-22-03 03:29 PM   #79 
  - I think the man  cally   Oct-22-03 02:15 PM   #22 
  - As long it takes two to conceive a child.  Fescue4u   Oct-22-03 02:15 PM   #23 
  - I think the man involved in the relationship has a say  demnan   Oct-22-03 02:17 PM   #24 
  - Men who don't want babies  Tansy_Gold   Oct-22-03 02:18 PM   #25 
  - I can't argue with any of that. Well stated. (n/t)  GOPisEvil   Oct-22-03 02:21 PM   #30 
  - But if a woman has irresponsible sex  judge_smales   Oct-22-03 02:22 PM   #32 
  - Nobody just "gets an abortion"  ComerPerro   Oct-22-03 02:34 PM   #44 
  - That's not what I suggested here.  judge_smales   Oct-22-03 02:38 PM   #51 
  - No it isn't.  liberal_veteran   Oct-22-03 02:35 PM   #45 
  - That's not even  judge_smales   Oct-22-03 02:40 PM   #53 
     - Of course men have feelings for their children....  liberal_veteran   Oct-22-03 02:47 PM   #58 
  - the baby is NOT part of the man  Tansy_Gold   Oct-22-03 03:14 PM   #70 
  - if you talking about raw material.  Fescue4u   Oct-22-03 11:04 PM   #251 
     - Ah, aristotelian logic  Tansy_Gold   Oct-22-03 11:27 PM   #255 
  - Spoken like someone  NicoleM   Oct-22-03 04:52 PM   #107 
     - Brava, Nicole  Tansy_Gold   Oct-22-03 05:20 PM   #116 
        - We could ask him but  NicoleM   Oct-22-03 05:26 PM   #122 
  - What about women?  Yupster   Oct-22-03 03:30 PM   #81 
  - Yes, it is a one-sided restriction, because. . . .  Tansy_Gold   Oct-22-03 04:55 PM   #108 
     - It seems if women are the only ones to get pregnant, then  Yupster   Oct-22-03 05:11 PM   #113 
        - You missed the point.  Tansy_Gold   Oct-22-03 05:36 PM   #131 
        - I was just joking about the sex is rape remark  Yupster   Oct-22-03 05:59 PM   #143 
           - In the real world, it's not a joke  Tansy_Gold   Oct-22-03 06:48 PM   #179 
              - I really had no idea that there are so many  Yupster   Oct-22-03 11:38 PM   #262 
                 - "highly paid husbands and stay-at-home wives"  Tansy_Gold   Oct-23-03 05:48 PM   #340 
                    - Boy for non-judgemental people, you guys sure have me figured out  Yupster   Oct-23-03 11:23 PM   #365 
        - No because one concerns the woman's rights and one concerns the child's  nothingshocksmeanymore   Oct-22-03 06:04 PM   #153 
  - Confused  Nederland   Oct-22-03 05:23 PM   #120 
  - See post #108  Tansy_Gold   Oct-22-03 06:21 PM   #163 
     - Dangerous Path  Nederland   Oct-23-03 10:29 AM   #320 
        - Not at all  Tansy_Gold   Oct-23-03 05:52 PM   #342 
           - Two seperate issues  Nederland   Oct-24-03 11:08 AM   #387 
              - If the woman is raising the child with time money and energy  nothingshocksmeanymore   Oct-24-03 11:24 AM   #388 
  - Well said.  hiphopnation23   Oct-23-03 08:55 AM   #302 
  - In  CWebster   Oct-22-03 02:20 PM   #28 
  - He can say whatever he wants to say  Alenne   Oct-22-03 02:21 PM   #29 
  - Does this exclusive decision-making cut both ways?  DisgustipatedinCA   Oct-22-03 02:26 PM   #35 
  - Those are decisions other people can make for themselves  Alenne   Oct-22-03 02:37 PM   #49 
     - Subjective, personal decision....that's cool  DisgustipatedinCA   Oct-22-03 02:47 PM   #59 
     - That works once  Muddleoftheroad   Oct-22-03 07:41 PM   #207 
        - My husband understands  Alenne   Oct-22-03 07:47 PM   #214 
           - That's true  Muddleoftheroad   Oct-22-03 07:56 PM   #222 
              - No one makes a decision about my body but me  Alenne   Oct-22-03 08:11 PM   #229 
                 - Not just a decision for your body  Muddleoftheroad   Oct-22-03 10:05 PM   #250 
                    - A deal killer for your marriage  Alenne   Oct-23-03 01:20 AM   #272 
                       - There you are wrong  Muddleoftheroad   Oct-23-03 06:40 AM   #287 
                          - My marriage is not in trouble  Alenne   Oct-23-03 01:04 PM   #333 
  - This is about alot more  judge_smales   Oct-22-03 02:27 PM   #37 
     - The affects of a pregnancy  Alenne   Oct-22-03 02:39 PM   #52 
     - Are the sexes equal? No...they aren't.  liberal_veteran   Oct-22-03 03:00 PM   #64 
        - The sexes are equal, but they are not identical  Tansy_Gold   Oct-22-03 08:57 PM   #241 
  - Veto  ThomWV   Oct-22-03 02:24 PM   #33 
  - I was really talking about legislation.  Clete   Oct-22-03 02:31 PM   #42 
  - Thanks for the clarification  DisgustipatedinCA   Oct-22-03 02:42 PM   #54 
  - I sincerely doubt  Tansy_Gold   Oct-22-03 03:29 PM   #80 
  - Unfounded assumption . . .  calm_blue_ocean   Oct-22-03 05:17 PM   #115 
     - Yes, but we don't have a 50/50 gender split in Congress,  Clete   Oct-22-03 05:20 PM   #117 
        - Believe me . . .  calm_blue_ocean   Oct-22-03 05:48 PM   #136 
           - I think the women in your orbit are in the minority.  Clete   Oct-22-03 06:45 PM   #176 
              - Really, you have an opinion poll showing . . .  calm_blue_ocean   Oct-22-03 07:41 PM   #208 
                 - Look at some of the polls on the other threads in this forum.  Clete   Oct-22-03 07:47 PM   #215 
                    - I have seen polls on the Internet that show . . .  calm_blue_ocean   Oct-22-03 08:49 PM   #239 
                       - So post the URL's to these polls.  Clete   Oct-22-03 11:27 PM   #256 
                          - okay, here we go, get ready to change your opinion . . .  calm_blue_ocean   Oct-23-03 12:07 AM   #267 
                             - That is essentially a PUSH POLL  nothingshocksmeanymore   Oct-23-03 12:18 AM   #269 
                                - And your counter-poll link is??? nt  calm_blue_ocean   Oct-23-03 12:20 AM   #270 
                                   - I didn't say I HAD a counter poll. The language of this poll is LEADING  nothingshocksmeanymore   Oct-23-03 02:21 AM   #274 
                                      - Leading-ness poll not relevant for our purposes  calm_blue_ocean   Oct-23-03 09:06 AM   #304 
  - No veto power from me  Yupster   Oct-22-03 03:35 PM   #84 
  - Of course men should have a say...  ShimokitaJer   Oct-22-03 02:28 PM   #39 
  - As a man, I say no.  Selwynn   Oct-22-03 02:31 PM   #41 
  - No, they shouldn't.  in_cog_ni_to   Oct-22-03 02:33 PM   #43 
  - So the father isn't  judge_smales   Oct-22-03 02:36 PM   #48 
     - Of course the father is a parent, but seriously...  redqueen   Oct-22-03 02:47 PM   #57 
     - Mother nature has decided that after I  Yupster   Oct-22-03 03:39 PM   #86 
        - But we're not solely going by nature.  redqueen   Oct-22-03 03:54 PM   #90 
           - I guess fairness depends on which gonads you have  Yupster   Oct-22-03 04:25 PM   #99 
              - Forgive me  NicoleM   Oct-22-03 05:01 PM   #111 
              - Answers  Yupster   Oct-22-03 05:14 PM   #114 
              - I must disagree.  NicoleM   Oct-22-03 05:36 PM   #130 
                 - Okay, amended answers then  Yupster   Oct-22-03 05:45 PM   #135 
                    - I guess we're going to have to  NicoleM   Oct-22-03 05:57 PM   #141 
              - Deleted message  Name removed   Oct-22-03 05:21 PM   #119 
                 - Wow yourself.  NicoleM   Oct-22-03 05:29 PM   #124 
                 - Deleted message  Name removed   Oct-22-03 05:44 PM   #134 
                    - Wow again.  NicoleM   Oct-22-03 05:50 PM   #138 
                       - Deleted message  Name removed   Oct-22-03 05:58 PM   #142 
                          - Ridiculous.  NicoleM   Oct-22-03 06:02 PM   #149 
                          - LOL!  Frodo   Oct-22-03 06:44 PM   #175 
                             - Their argument is so  in_cog_ni_to   Oct-22-03 07:20 PM   #193 
                                - Roe v Wade and late term abortion  calm_blue_ocean   Oct-22-03 07:31 PM   #202 
                          - I saw somewhere that  Yupster   Oct-22-03 09:49 PM   #244 
                             - That is because the thread isn't about adoption.  Clete   Oct-22-03 09:56 PM   #247 
                 - That really was a rude remark.  in_cog_ni_to   Oct-22-03 05:49 PM   #137 
                    - Deleted message  Name removed   Oct-22-03 06:00 PM   #146 
                       - Really?  NicoleM   Oct-22-03 06:05 PM   #156 
                       - Deleted message  Name removed   Oct-22-03 06:19 PM   #161 
                          - To quote Barbara Bush  NicoleM   Oct-22-03 06:22 PM   #165 
                       - Ya,  in_cog_ni_to   Oct-22-03 06:18 PM   #160 
                          - Deleted message  Name removed   Oct-22-03 07:44 PM   #212 
                             - I still haven't heard an answer to the question  in_cog_ni_to   Oct-23-03 06:18 AM   #283 
                                - What infants waiting for adoption?  calm_blue_ocean   Oct-23-03 09:18 AM   #307 
                                   - I am talking about  in_cog_ni_to   Oct-23-03 11:39 AM   #326 
                                      - If I adopt, I want an infant  calm_blue_ocean   Oct-23-03 11:55 AM   #328 
                                         - Well, I'd have to say that  in_cog_ni_to   Oct-23-03 05:44 PM   #339 
                                         - An instant family  Tansy_Gold   Oct-23-03 06:05 PM   #346 
                                            - That is a great story, Tansy _Gold  in_cog_ni_to   Oct-23-03 06:26 PM   #349 
              - Nooooo.......  in_cog_ni_to   Oct-22-03 05:10 PM   #112 
                 - The man would not be the one  Yupster   Oct-22-03 05:20 PM   #118 
                    - Ahem....  in_cog_ni_to   Oct-22-03 05:44 PM   #133 
                    - What about a sperm bank?  Yupster   Oct-22-03 06:05 PM   #158 
                       - Ummmmm....nooooo  in_cog_ni_to   Oct-22-03 06:29 PM   #168 
                    - But the decision to support would be the man's -- 100%???  Tansy_Gold   Oct-22-03 05:51 PM   #139 
                       - So let me get this straight  Frodo   Oct-22-03 06:37 PM   #171 
                          - Well, it's a lot more difficult for a woman to have sex with  Tansy_Gold   Oct-22-03 07:26 PM   #200 
                             - That  NicoleM   Oct-22-03 08:29 PM   #234 
                                - Oh, thanks!  Tansy_Gold   Oct-22-03 09:04 PM   #242 
     - I think in_cog_ni_to  fla nocount   Oct-22-03 02:48 PM   #60 
     - How can you be a parent  in_cog_ni_to   Oct-22-03 03:00 PM   #65 
     - totally irrelevant.  Selwynn   Oct-22-03 06:00 PM   #145 
  - Only if her doctor is a man. n/t  fla nocount   Oct-22-03 02:35 PM   #46 
  - Would you require me to spend my tax dollars on abortion?  dsc   Oct-22-03 02:36 PM   #47 
  - For one thing women could be drafted and do serve in  Clete   Oct-22-03 02:44 PM   #55 
  - and on the money question?  dsc   Oct-22-03 03:17 PM   #72 
     - Your question doesn't make sense.  Clete   Oct-22-03 03:25 PM   #76 
        - Yes we do  dsc   Oct-22-03 03:31 PM   #82 
           - You are the one for twisting an argument aren't you No one was  Clete   Oct-22-03 03:49 PM   #89 
              - I see still no answer  dsc   Oct-22-03 04:10 PM   #94 
                 - There is no answer.  Clete   Oct-22-03 04:14 PM   #95 
                 - Ok, Here you go  dsc   Oct-22-03 04:33 PM   #103 
                    - It's still apples and oranges.  Clete   Oct-22-03 04:56 PM   #109 
                    - Yes I would vote to pay those taxes  dsc   Oct-22-03 06:44 PM   #174 
                       - Excuse me but I don't ever remember voting on a welfare  Clete   Oct-22-03 07:13 PM   #189 
                       - Our county welfare department  dsc   Oct-22-03 07:23 PM   #196 
                       - Many women are firmly against the state  Yupster   Oct-22-03 11:42 PM   #264 
                    - But you and I pay for many things in which we have no say.  spooky3   Oct-22-03 06:05 PM   #155 
                       - You get to vote for the levies  dsc   Oct-22-03 06:24 PM   #166 
                          - Splitting hairs and missing the point.  spooky3   Oct-22-03 07:15 PM   #190 
                 - Do you get to opt out of taxes that pay to administrate the death penalty?  nothingshocksmeanymore   Oct-22-03 06:58 PM   #182 
                    - No but I am not forbidden  dsc   Oct-22-03 07:07 PM   #187 
                       - You mean like the Iraq war?  nothingshocksmeanymore   Oct-22-03 07:21 PM   #194 
                          - Like it or not  dsc   Oct-22-03 11:33 PM   #260 
                             - There was no debate but I would also caution that your argument  nothingshocksmeanymore   Oct-22-03 11:39 PM   #263 
  - You also pay tax dollars for medical treatment of the poor... and no...  Selwynn   Oct-22-03 06:02 PM   #148 
  - Yes, of course  KFC   Oct-22-03 02:44 PM   #56 
  - There are some issues where a general vote isn't  Clete   Oct-22-03 02:50 PM   #62 
  - Personal Choice Means Between The Couple  rucky   Oct-22-03 02:49 PM   #61 
  - agreed  WoodrowFan   Oct-22-03 03:04 PM   #67 
  - If they're married, yes  Gman   Oct-22-03 03:02 PM   #66 
  - NOPE !!! Other Than To Give Support To Whatever Decision The Woman Makes  WillyT   Oct-22-03 03:12 PM   #69 
  - And then show her the door if he doesn't agree.  Character Assassin   Oct-22-03 04:37 PM   #105 
     - Well at least it defines where he does have a choice  nothingshocksmeanymore   Oct-22-03 06:56 PM   #181 
        - Exactly my point.  Character Assassin   Oct-22-03 07:18 PM   #191 
           - But then you would have comitted assault  nothingshocksmeanymore   Oct-22-03 07:22 PM   #195 
              - OK, 'placed' on the curb, cab fare in hand.  Character Assassin   Oct-22-03 07:25 PM   #198 
                 - There's nothing I appreciate more than a man who knows where his rights  nothingshocksmeanymore   Oct-22-03 07:31 PM   #203 
  - LOL !!! Ain't It 'Cute' How Many Men Here Feel They Should Have A Say ???  WillyT   Oct-22-03 03:22 PM   #74 
  - Like I said in another thread... when's the last time these guys had their  Lars39   Oct-22-03 03:24 PM   #75 
  - A different perspective  Northwind   Oct-22-03 03:25 PM   #77 
  - Certainly people who live together in whatever  Clete   Oct-22-03 03:35 PM   #83 
  - A man in any kind of relationship with a pregnant woman  Dhalgren   Oct-22-03 03:39 PM   #87 
  - No, unless the woman asks for his opinion.  Castilleja   Oct-22-03 04:02 PM   #93 
  - I have the perfect solution  spooky3   Oct-22-03 04:30 PM   #101 
  - None of my business  elperromagico   Oct-22-03 04:33 PM   #102 
  - no  Cheswick   Oct-22-03 04:34 PM   #104 
  - I think Men have a right and a obligation  rusk2003   Oct-22-03 04:44 PM   #106 
  - No and No.  protect freedom impeach bush n   Oct-22-03 04:58 PM   #110 
  - Should we? I'd hope so.  Blue-Jay   Oct-22-03 05:24 PM   #121 
  - Only if he is the father  ibegurpard   Oct-22-03 05:27 PM   #123 
  - Here I go, about to piss off 90% of all DU'ers  LanternWaste   Oct-22-03 05:33 PM   #126 
  - It's painful, its difficult - its also NOT YOUR CHOICE.  Selwynn   Oct-22-03 06:04 PM   #154 
     - Kind of a flippant answer to a tragedy, imo  LanternWaste   Oct-22-03 06:39 PM   #172 
        - Apologies if it sounded flippant - but your argument...  Selwynn   Oct-22-03 06:46 PM   #177 
           - I don't absolutely "know" as you do, but my beliefs....  LanternWaste   Oct-22-03 07:01 PM   #183 
           - This is how I define having a say:  Selwynn   Oct-22-03 07:26 PM   #199 
              - To be perfectly honest, I do not know...  LanternWaste   Oct-22-03 07:49 PM   #216 
                 - You're missing the point.  Selwynn   Oct-22-03 08:19 PM   #231 
                    - We've gone all over the place on this convo. Anyway...  LanternWaste   Oct-22-03 09:51 PM   #245 
                       - I got it - thanks for the response.  Selwynn   Oct-22-03 11:28 PM   #257 
           - Since there have been two similar stories from the male POV. . .  Tansy_Gold   Oct-22-03 08:07 PM   #228 
              - Thank you for sharing that perspective.. as a man.....  Selwynn   Oct-22-03 08:23 PM   #233 
              - Thanks for writing that  LanternWaste   Oct-22-03 10:03 PM   #249 
                 - You're an interesting fellow...  Selwynn   Oct-22-03 11:30 PM   #258 
  - How about...  LeahMira   Oct-22-03 05:34 PM   #127 
  - Nope...  Triana   Oct-22-03 05:34 PM   #128 
  - No...Period...  phillybri   Oct-22-03 05:36 PM   #129 
  - And yet pro-choice female politicians can also be pro-WOD  Character Assassin   Oct-22-03 05:42 PM   #132 
  - IDIOT ALERT: What is WOD?  Selwynn   Oct-22-03 06:05 PM   #157 
     - The War on Drugs. It's the modern day fount of most political hypocrisy.  Character Assassin   Oct-22-03 06:20 PM   #162 
        - as a mother I think the WOD issue is one of those things  bleedingheart   Oct-22-03 07:02 PM   #184 
  - NO. Best bet is to "strap up" to avoid any misunderstandings n/t  LalahLand   Oct-22-03 06:03 PM   #151 
  - Only if we can give them the hemorrhoids, bladder problems, high blood  bleedingheart   Oct-22-03 06:53 PM   #180 
  - Yes and No  onebigbadwulf   Oct-22-03 07:08 PM   #188 
  - Well if WE got pregnant Yes WE then yes I'm obligated by law to  LibertyorDeath   Oct-22-03 07:25 PM   #197 
  - You don't get to force another human being to make medical..  Selwynn   Oct-22-03 07:33 PM   #204 
  - what a stupid question  whirlygigspin   Oct-22-03 07:50 PM   #217 
  - OK but only if you agree to die along with her if she experiences  nothingshocksmeanymore   Oct-22-03 07:53 PM   #220 
  - Men Should Have No Legal "Say" Regarding a Woman's Reproductive Rights.  David Zephyr   Oct-22-03 08:05 PM   #226 
  - No No No No NOOOOOOOO! and heck NO!  sistersofmercy   Oct-22-03 08:05 PM   #227 
  - The whole question is sexist the way you frame it.  Devils Advocate NZ   Oct-22-03 08:15 PM   #230 
  - Why don't you read the other posts here?  spooky3   Oct-22-03 08:30 PM   #235 
     - And many of them are patently wrong and sexist.  Devils Advocate NZ   Oct-22-03 08:38 PM   #237 
        - Sorry, issues that are based on real, physiological differences  spooky3   Oct-22-03 08:42 PM   #238 
        - But a woman can renounce her financial obligations to the child...  Devils Advocate NZ   Oct-23-03 09:39 AM   #312 
        - Is there some huge epidemic  NicoleM   Oct-22-03 08:52 PM   #240 
        - Bingo!  Tansy_Gold   Oct-22-03 09:14 PM   #243 
        - And the same should go for the woman  Yupster   Oct-22-03 11:33 PM   #261 
        - So abortion should be illegal except in the case of rape?  Devils Advocate NZ   Oct-23-03 09:44 AM   #315 
        - Can you explain to me how it would be possible to force. . . .  Tansy_Gold   Oct-22-03 11:46 PM   #265 
           - Well suppose he doesn't  Yupster   Oct-23-03 01:00 AM   #271 
           - Should he still be burdened for 18 years?  Tansy_Gold   Oct-23-03 02:55 AM   #276 
              - God DAMN that's the best rant I think I've EVER SEEN!!!!!  Booberdawg   Oct-23-03 03:17 AM   #277 
              - I think I understand your anger  Yupster   Oct-23-03 03:47 AM   #278 
              - Inequity? Get outta' town!!  Isome   Oct-23-03 04:52 AM   #279 
                 - You are mixing issues  Muddleoftheroad   Oct-23-03 06:46 AM   #289 
                    - No, I'm responding to the charge of inequity.  Isome   Oct-23-03 05:12 PM   #337 
                       - Not at all  Muddleoftheroad   Oct-23-03 06:08 PM   #348 
                          - Mixing Issues - as you are wont to project onto others  Isome   Oct-24-03 12:34 AM   #373 
              - The woman doesn't have to live with it at all!  Devils Advocate NZ   Oct-23-03 10:12 AM   #319 
              - Will you marry me? Or at least let me worship at your feet?  Selwynn   Oct-23-03 06:04 PM   #345 
                 - ROTFL!!!  Booberdawg   Oct-23-03 06:57 PM   #350 
                 - ROFLMAO!  Tansy_Gold   Oct-23-03 07:13 PM   #353 
                    - Great to have you here, militant feminist Tansy_Gold married with children  Booberdawg   Oct-23-03 07:26 PM   #356 
           - So explain adoption. Why can a woman renounce her obligations to a child?  Devils Advocate NZ   Oct-23-03 09:56 AM   #317 
  - Since when have men had a say in abortion?  Blue_Chill   Oct-22-03 09:54 PM   #246 
  - Okay, fair game.  Clete   Oct-22-03 11:09 PM   #253 
     - Then try to pass it.  Blue_Chill   Oct-23-03 10:33 AM   #321 
  - On a national political level, HELL NO!!!  Terwilliger   Oct-22-03 11:06 PM   #252 
  - Yes, when they become the offspring and that is once they  Clete   Oct-22-03 11:10 PM   #254 
     - no  Terwilliger   Oct-22-03 11:50 PM   #266 
  - Well my thought...  Hippo_Tron   Oct-23-03 12:10 AM   #268 
  - I think they do  HEyHEY   Oct-23-03 01:23 AM   #273 
  - The question is at what point..I say it's a moment before they leave  nothingshocksmeanymore   Oct-23-03 02:24 AM   #275 
  - What has befuddled me  laylah   Oct-23-03 05:38 AM   #280 
  - exceptions to the rule  Tansy_Gold   Oct-23-03 07:37 PM   #357 
  - This kind of sexist segregationism is jaw-dropping !  BonjourUSA   Oct-23-03 06:04 AM   #282 
  - I don't think politicians should have a say in medical decisions  VermontDem2004   Oct-23-03 06:35 AM   #284 
  - Dr Mendele had chance to be in the same way of thinking than nazi ?  BonjourUSA   Oct-23-03 07:13 AM   #294 
     - I just woke up so I had no idea what you said  VermontDem2004   Oct-23-03 07:21 AM   #295 
        - Elect politicians who share your ideas  BonjourUSA   Oct-23-03 07:37 AM   #297 
           - There is a difference between medical procedures  VermontDem2004   Oct-23-03 07:39 AM   #298 
              - We're taking about political decisions  BonjourUSA   Oct-23-03 08:42 AM   #299 
  - When women can conceive by themselves  mmonk   Oct-23-03 07:26 AM   #296 
  - When men can bear children and bear the health risks of pregnancy  Booberdawg   Oct-23-03 08:51 AM   #301 
     - I'm not for banning abortion,  mmonk   Oct-23-03 09:25 AM   #309 
        - Good post  Blue_Chill   Oct-23-03 10:38 AM   #322 
           - Not at all correct. Men who DON'T PAY child support can still get  nothingshocksmeanymore   Oct-23-03 05:57 PM   #344 
  - Deleted message  Name removed   Oct-23-03 09:41 AM   #314 
  - Because banning abortion  mmonk   Oct-23-03 09:47 AM   #316 
  - Long post  undergroundpanther   Oct-23-03 12:57 PM   #332 
  - A fetus is not a baby  in_cog_ni_to   Oct-23-03 11:42 AM   #327 
  - NO  Skittles   Oct-23-03 10:48 AM   #324 
  - Can't believe this thread still lives!  mmonk   Oct-23-03 05:55 PM   #343 
  - I know I would  Hep   Oct-23-03 07:08 PM   #352 
  - Our elected representatives, whether men or women, should be  Redleg   Oct-23-03 09:53 PM   #362 
  - As a woman who is very pro-choice I say ABSOLUTELY  PROUD DemocRAT   Oct-23-03 11:50 PM   #366 
  - Should a father be able to overule the mother on abortion?  Selwynn   Oct-23-03 11:57 PM   #367 
  - Ultimately, no.  PROUD DemocRAT   Oct-24-03 12:18 AM   #370 
     - Ok, so my reason for asking is this...  Selwynn   Oct-24-03 12:31 AM   #371 
        - I can see your point.  PROUD DemocRAT   Oct-24-03 12:50 AM   #378 
  - So from what you are saying you agree with  Clete   Oct-24-03 12:01 AM   #369 
  - Wrong!  PROUD DemocRAT   Oct-24-03 12:32 AM   #372 
     - What if you were 15 or 16 or 20?  nothingshocksmeanymore   Oct-24-03 12:43 AM   #376 
  - Once it is a born child, I would agree...the issue is what SHOULD be  nothingshocksmeanymore   Oct-24-03 12:35 AM   #374 
  - A few clarifications and a response ---  PROUD DemocRAT   Oct-24-03 01:14 AM   #379 
     - Fair enough but I REALLY don't care about what lurkers think I THINK  nothingshocksmeanymore   Oct-24-03 01:30 AM   #380 
        - Ha! - nothingshocksmeanymore  PROUD DemocRAT   Oct-24-03 01:48 AM   #381 
        - Don't worry..if men don't cool it with this crap, I'll bet God makes alot  nothingshocksmeanymore   Oct-24-03 01:54 AM   #383 
        - Ha!- nothingshocksmeanymore  PROUD DemocRAT   Oct-24-03 01:51 AM   #382 
  - I started another thread for this post.  Clete   Oct-24-03 12:37 AM   #375 
     - Well, this sucks.  Clete   Oct-24-03 01:58 AM   #384 
  - Yes and No  corarose   Oct-24-03 12:43 AM   #377 
  - Church and Roe vs Wade  Roy_C   Oct-24-03 09:52 AM   #385 
     - Third trimester abortions are far more rare and are usually  nothingshocksmeanymore   Oct-24-03 10:38 AM   #386 
 

Home » Discuss » Archives » General Discussion (Through 2005) Donate to DU

Powered by DCForum+ Version 1.1 Copyright 1997-2002 DCScripts.com
Software has been extensively modified by the DU administrators


Important Notices: By participating on this discussion board, visitors agree to abide by the rules outlined on our Rules page. Messages posted on the Democratic Underground Discussion Forums are the opinions of the individuals who post them, and do not necessarily represent the opinions of Democratic Underground, LLC.

Home  |  Discussion Forums  |  Journals |  Store  |  Donate

About DU  |  Contact Us  |  Privacy Policy

Got a message for Democratic Underground? Click here to send us a message.

© 2001 - 2011 Democratic Underground, LLC