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Reply #132: Here are the facts. [View All]

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maha Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Oct-21-03 03:10 PM
Response to Reply #121
132. Here are the facts.
The first fact to be acknowledged is that NOBODY -- not the AMA, not the CDC, not Alan Guttmacher, NOBODY -- keeps a log showing the reasons for all abortions performed. Also, what are we calling "late term"? Can we agree that second trimester is not "late term" but "middle term"?

That being said, the numbers do tell a story.

THIRD TRIMESTER abortions really are very rare. The last time I looked it up, it was estimated that only about a thousand THIRD TRIMESTER abortions, or abortions after 25 weeks gestation, are performed in the U.S. every year.

In the 1950s and 1960s, before the use of ultrasound techniques for monitoring fetal development, the prevalence rates for anencephaly ranged from 1.39 to 1.93 per 1,000 births. So there are a lot more anencephaic infants conceived than are infants aborted in the third trimester. This tells us some anencephalic infants are abortion at MIDDLE TERM, and some women choose to bring the infants to term so their organs can be harvested. To each her own.

Further, anencephaly is just one of many desvastating medical conditions that give no hope of a good outcome. And, surely more than a thousand infants die in utero in the U.S. from all kinds of causes and must be removed to prevent sepsis in the mother. Those, also, count as "abortions."

Most states DO ban elective abortion in the third trimester, believe it or not. This is permitted by Roe v. Wade as long as exceptions are made for life/health of the mother.

The point is, women are NOT trotting into abortion clinics in their eighth month of pregnancy and getting abortions for the hell of it.


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  -Senate Set to Ban "late term abortions" today Q  Oct-21-03 12:13 PM   #0 
  - Santorum is a zealot...  Q   Oct-21-03 12:14 PM   #1 
  - Santorum  Mel   Oct-21-03 12:26 PM   #3 
  - Wasn't there a  mzpip   Oct-21-03 12:24 PM   #2 
  - bing bing bing  Mel   Oct-21-03 12:31 PM   #5 
  - PLEASE STOP FOR THE LOVE OF GOD STOP  Hep   Oct-21-03 12:27 PM   #4 
  - You Beat Me To It... Thanks For Saying This!!!  arwalden   Oct-21-03 12:36 PM   #6 
  - Hear hear!  eileen_d   Oct-21-03 12:39 PM   #7 
  - OK  Muddleoftheroad   Oct-21-03 12:45 PM   #9 
     - It's between a woman and her doctor, period.  eileen_d   Oct-21-03 12:48 PM   #10 
     - Nevertheless  Muddleoftheroad   Oct-21-03 12:52 PM   #14 
        - Congress is not the FDA  eileen_d   Oct-21-03 12:56 PM   #21 
           - All of this is ultimately decided by Congress  Muddleoftheroad   Oct-21-03 01:09 PM   #38 
              - What are you talking about  eileen_d   Oct-21-03 01:12 PM   #43 
     - Can you back up your claims?  Q   Oct-21-03 12:48 PM   #11 
     - because they don't understand it  Hep   Oct-21-03 12:49 PM   #12 
     - Given that  Muddleoftheroad   Oct-21-03 12:53 PM   #15 
     - Yes. They oppose it on emotional grounds.  BurtWorm   Oct-21-03 12:54 PM   #18 
     - So then a late term child  Blue_Chill   Oct-21-03 12:55 PM   #20 
        - I am betting you don't have a clue what circumstances  BurtWorm   Oct-21-03 12:58 PM   #26 
        - It isn't delivered and killed  Hep   Oct-21-03 01:00 PM   #29 
        - You are the only one getting emotional  Blue_Chill   Oct-21-03 01:05 PM   #35 
           - projection is funny  Hep   Oct-21-03 01:09 PM   #40 
           - OK then  Blue_Chill   Oct-21-03 01:13 PM   #44 
              - round we go  Hep   Oct-21-03 01:16 PM   #48 
                 - Insults?  Blue_Chill   Oct-21-03 01:20 PM   #53 
                    - laugh all you want  Hep   Oct-21-03 01:23 PM   #58 
           - Blue you can not murder something that isn't going to live...  TLM   Oct-21-03 01:25 PM   #62 
              - Good point  Blue_Chill   Oct-21-03 01:29 PM   #68 
                 - Let me be very clear about the danger...  TLM   Oct-21-03 01:33 PM   #77 
                 - No functioning brain?  Blue_Chill   Oct-21-03 01:36 PM   #82 
                    - You really do not know what an anacephalic or hydrocephalic fetus is?  TLM   Oct-21-03 01:44 PM   #92 
                       - Question: is late term abortions ONLY performed in the case of....  Selwynn   Oct-21-03 02:37 PM   #121 
                          - Here are the facts.  maha   Oct-21-03 03:10 PM   #132 
                 - What about cruelty to a woman whose life is endangered by  BurtWorm   Oct-21-03 01:34 PM   #79 
                 - Danger is less cruel then horrible death.  Blue_Chill   Oct-21-03 01:37 PM   #84 
                    - Wow!  Hep   Oct-21-03 01:38 PM   #85 
                    - No.  Blue_Chill   Oct-21-03 01:42 PM   #90 
                       - Dishonest?  Hep   Oct-21-03 01:54 PM   #100 
                    - You seem to be softening, now that you've been educated on what  BurtWorm   Oct-21-03 01:39 PM   #86 
                 - Blue_Chill, You Are Not Alone!  pbl   Oct-21-03 01:54 PM   #99 
                 - proof please  Hep   Oct-21-03 01:56 PM   #101 
                 - Ones who would be swayed to reject Dems because of this  BurtWorm   Oct-21-03 02:25 PM   #114 
                 - That's because the majority of Americans  Clark Can WIN   Oct-21-03 04:23 PM   #146 
                 - What do you mean "late term?"  maha   Oct-21-03 02:18 PM   #108 
        - According to the American Medical Association  maha   Oct-21-03 02:13 PM   #107 
     - No I can't  Hep   Oct-21-03 12:57 PM   #25 
     - If the Doctors are so rare and it's almost never done  Blue_Chill   Oct-21-03 12:54 PM   #19 
     - Do you know what those very instances are?  BurtWorm   Oct-21-03 12:57 PM   #22 
     - I don't know let's ask the AMA.  Blue_Chill   Oct-21-03 12:59 PM   #27 
        - yeah?  Hep   Oct-21-03 01:06 PM   #36 
        - Yeah.  Blue_Chill   Oct-21-03 01:08 PM   #37 
           - Gladly  Hep   Oct-21-03 01:12 PM   #42 
           - Misleading stats.  Blue_Chill   Oct-21-03 01:17 PM   #50 
              - misleading how?  Hep   Oct-21-03 01:24 PM   #60 
                 - OK  Blue_Chill   Oct-21-03 01:30 PM   #71 
                    - misleading how?  Hep   Oct-21-03 01:40 PM   #87 
           - Here you go.  maha   Oct-21-03 02:33 PM   #120 
        - Blue, do you even know why this late term abortion is done?  TLM   Oct-21-03 01:23 PM   #57 
        - Apparently not. I haven't been able to get an answer from him on that.  BurtWorm   Oct-21-03 01:25 PM   #61 
           - The AMA answered you.  Blue_Chill   Oct-21-03 01:31 PM   #73 
              - What the AMA said was that this is not the ONLY way...  TLM   Oct-21-03 01:36 PM   #81 
              - I see your point  Blue_Chill   Oct-21-03 01:40 PM   #89 
              - The AMA says nothing about when the procedure is performed.  BurtWorm   Oct-21-03 01:36 PM   #83 
                 - What the fuck is your problem?  Blue_Chill   Oct-21-03 01:40 PM   #88 
                 - That you sound like a right to lifer  Hep   Oct-21-03 01:50 PM   #97 
                 - Sorry if I misread your position  BurtWorm   Oct-21-03 01:48 PM   #96 
        - WRONG  maha   Oct-21-03 02:22 PM   #111 
     - Counterpoint: why give the STATE the right to decide?  Q   Oct-21-03 12:57 PM   #23 
     - What are you babbling about?  Blue_Chill   Oct-21-03 01:02 PM   #30 
     - Because it SAVES LIVES  Hep   Oct-21-03 01:05 PM   #34 
     - Dead babies?  Blue_Chill   Oct-21-03 01:10 PM   #41 
        - unbelievable  Hep   Oct-21-03 01:14 PM   #45 
        - Grind them into burgers?  missb   Oct-21-03 01:15 PM   #46 
        - OK  Blue_Chill   Oct-21-03 01:21 PM   #55 
           - so you agree that LTA should remain legal  Hep   Oct-21-03 01:26 PM   #64 
           - But the ban would make it illegal  missb   Oct-21-03 01:26 PM   #65 
           - I don't support this bill if that's what you mean  Blue_Chill   Oct-21-03 01:32 PM   #76 
           - What's cruel about it?  TLM   Oct-21-03 01:31 PM   #74 
              - I disagree  Blue_Chill   Oct-21-03 01:34 PM   #78 
                 - If you had no choice but to suffer pain in order to live and resume health  BurtWorm   Oct-21-03 01:43 PM   #91 
        - The AMA lies.  maha   Oct-21-03 02:47 PM   #123 
     - It was just EXPLAINED TO YOU why it is done  Clark Can WIN   Oct-21-03 04:42 PM   #149 
     - Notice that big media doesn't try to explain the reality, either.  w4rma   Oct-21-03 12:57 PM   #24 
     - The "rarely done" argument is ridiculous  Yupster   Oct-21-03 01:17 PM   #51 
        - In order for your argument to be legitimate  Hep   Oct-21-03 01:27 PM   #67 
        - That's not an argument: don't ban late term abortions because they're rare  BurtWorm   Oct-21-03 01:29 PM   #70 
        - You'd say different  maha   Oct-21-03 02:24 PM   #113 
     - A majority opposes it because they don't get it  BurtWorm   Oct-21-03 12:53 PM   #16 
     - To answer your question ...  BattyDem   Oct-21-03 01:16 PM   #49 
     - You're wrong about people opposing D&X  BurtWorm   Oct-21-03 01:23 PM   #59 
     - We're not a majoritarian democracy.  maha   Oct-21-03 01:47 PM   #94 
        - But the irony here is that a majority clearly opposes outlawing  BurtWorm   Oct-21-03 01:51 PM   #98 
           - You are right.  maha   Oct-21-03 02:50 PM   #125 
  - I used the phrase used in the article...  Q   Oct-21-03 12:43 PM   #8 
     - Didn't mean to single you out.  Hep   Oct-21-03 12:50 PM   #13 
        - No...your point was well-taken...  Q   Oct-21-03 12:54 PM   #17 
           - Exactly  Hep   Oct-21-03 01:02 PM   #31 
           - This is the same type of screwed up reasoning...  Q   Oct-21-03 01:02 PM   #32 
  - I'm new here. I have a question.  zoe1   Oct-21-03 01:00 PM   #28 
  - Democrats only  Blue_Chill   Oct-21-03 01:03 PM   # 
  - I just read the rules  zoe1   Oct-21-03 01:18 PM   #52 
     - Deleted message  Name removed   Oct-21-03 01:22 PM   #56 
     - Just go ahead and post your opinion...  Q   Oct-21-03 01:27 PM   #66 
     - Ok  zoe1   Oct-21-03 01:47 PM   #93 
        - that is fine as long as...  elfwitch   Oct-21-03 01:57 PM   #102 
        - .  zoe1   Oct-21-03 02:19 PM   #110 
           - Preborn baby?  missb   Oct-21-03 02:32 PM   #118 
              - exactly  elfwitch   Oct-21-03 03:42 PM   #137 
        - fingers and toes are really cute!  Hep   Oct-21-03 02:00 PM   #104 
     - Exchanging of ideas and debating happens here every day  eileen_d   Oct-21-03 01:35 PM   #80 
  - I suggest you read the board rules...  Q   Oct-21-03 01:03 PM   #33 
     - Is this really what we are 'as a society"?  Q   Oct-21-03 01:09 PM   #39 
        - Will An AMA Endorsement Sway Any Votes?  Q   Oct-21-03 01:15 PM   #47 
           - Not really  Hep   Oct-21-03 01:20 PM   #54 
  - Good. I'm against partial birth abortion.  WhosNext   Oct-21-03 01:25 PM   #63 
  - yeah dammit!  Hep   Oct-21-03 01:29 PM   #69 
  - Thank goodness you're not God.  missb   Oct-21-03 01:30 PM   #72 
     - I'm not against it in those types of cases.  WhosNext   Oct-21-03 01:32 PM   #75 
        - are you lying?  Hep   Oct-21-03 01:59 PM   #103 
  - pretty soon "late term"  Skittles   Oct-21-03 01:47 PM   #95 
  - Thank You! You Have Described The Phenomenon Of...  arwalden   Oct-21-03 02:05 PM   #106 
  - Anal sex to be outlawed next week.(nt)  mrgorth   Oct-21-03 02:02 PM   #105 
  - SERIOUS QUESTION: Why is baning late term abortions bad?  Selwynn   Oct-21-03 02:19 PM   #109 
  - read the thread  Hep   Oct-21-03 02:28 PM   #115 
  - Ok, doing it now  Selwynn   Oct-21-03 02:31 PM   #117 
  - Personally  maha   Oct-21-03 02:30 PM   #116 
  - I'm with you  Hep   Oct-21-03 02:43 PM   #122 
  - What you should know:  maha   Oct-21-03 03:21 PM   #134 
  - Roe v. Wade....  Hell Hath No Fury   Oct-21-03 02:55 PM   #126 
  - Selwynn-  BullGooseLoony   Oct-21-03 03:54 PM   #139 
  - AMERICAN COLLEGE OF OBSTRETRICS AND GYNECOLOGY  maha   Oct-21-03 02:23 PM   #112 
  - It's still all about control.  Lars39   Oct-21-03 02:32 PM   #119 
  - I'm pro choice with a huge asterisk.....  RummyTheDummy   Oct-21-03 02:48 PM   #124 
  - THIS IS JUST DISGUSTING!  Loyal   Oct-21-03 02:56 PM   #127 
  - Great post!  mrgorth   Oct-21-03 03:02 PM   #128 
     - yep  Loyal   Oct-21-03 03:05 PM   #130 
  - By the way,  Loyal   Oct-21-03 03:02 PM   #129 
  - Just thought of another good one  Loyal   Oct-21-03 03:09 PM   #131 
  - As a male,  Loyal   Oct-21-03 03:12 PM   #133 
  - good for you !!  elfwitch   Oct-21-03 03:29 PM   #136 
  - Yeah,and yet men are always the ones yacking on TV,paper...  OneTwentyoFive   Oct-21-03 03:44 PM   #138 
  - Sanitorium - It's Not OK to Kill Babies  otohara   Oct-21-03 03:24 PM   #135 
  - I haven't heard anything from Santorum or Hatch...  Q   Oct-21-03 04:03 PM   #140 
     - He Only Cares About The Arms & Legs  otohara   Oct-21-03 04:15 PM   #143 
  - Am I reading this correctly.. this bill has NO exceptions for mother's  salin   Oct-21-03 04:05 PM   #141 
  - SC will overturn it  Loyal   Oct-21-03 04:11 PM   #142 
     - I am correct, then? NO exceptions?  salin   Oct-21-03 04:18 PM   #144 
     - interesting...  elfwitch   Oct-21-03 04:20 PM   #145 
        - apparently they don't care much for the womb either?  salin   Oct-21-03 04:27 PM   #147 
  - Locking.  kaitykaity   Oct-21-03 04:37 PM   #148 
 

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