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Reply #82: I was merely correcting the misperception [View All]

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Minstrel Boy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-20-03 03:30 PM
Response to Reply #78
82. I was merely correcting the misperception
created by the pilot's quote regarding flight conditions, which ignored the fact he reversed his opinion, based on improved weather, more than an hour before departure.
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  -The Paul Wellstone crash was..... VermontDem2004  Oct-20-03 01:37 PM   #0 
  - an unfortunate accident planned by the bush regime  DuctapeFatwa   Oct-20-03 01:40 PM   #1 
  - It's either one or the other  VermontDem2004   Oct-20-03 01:41 PM   #2 
     - You gotta think big tent  DuctapeFatwa   Oct-20-03 01:44 PM   #7 
        - LOL  9215   Oct-20-03 01:47 PM   #9 
        - ok  VermontDem2004   Oct-20-03 01:53 PM   #20 
        - You sayng the US govt is incapable of planning an unfortunate accident?  DuctapeFatwa   Oct-20-03 02:40 PM   #59 
        - some people just hate thinking "outside the box"  Cheswick   Oct-20-03 03:35 PM   #85 
        - #2 - Think President Wellstone  Zorra   Oct-20-03 08:45 PM   #142 
        - beautiful!  0007   Oct-22-03 06:59 AM   #348 
  - On SFGate.com  theivoryqueen   Oct-20-03 01:41 PM   #3 
  - Foil-hatters  birdman   Oct-20-03 01:41 PM   #4 
  - Funny!  theivoryqueen   Oct-20-03 01:57 PM   #26 
  - and  ArkDem   Oct-20-03 02:53 PM   #67 
  - I have nothing to base my suspicion on, I just never believed it  lindashaw   Oct-20-03 01:41 PM   #5 
  - To clarify  tridim   Oct-20-03 01:45 PM   #8 
     - Could it be...  Padraig18   Oct-20-03 01:48 PM   #10 
     - Exactly  birdman   Oct-20-03 01:53 PM   #21 
     - You forgot  VermontDem2004   Oct-20-03 01:55 PM   #22 
     - and  Yupster   Oct-20-03 03:49 PM   #95 
     - Oh no ! Bush whacked the Big Fucking Bopper  birdman   Oct-20-03 04:53 PM   #109 
        - Don't forget ELVIS!  AquariDem   Oct-20-03 05:28 PM   #116 
     - Yep, it was utterly probable that Wellstone would die in a ridiculously  stickdog   Oct-21-03 02:40 PM   #174 
        - Oh, PUH-leeze!  Padraig18   Oct-21-03 03:58 PM   #219 
           - Nice argument.  stickdog   Oct-21-03 04:14 PM   #230 
     - I think that is  in_cog_ni_to   Oct-20-03 01:56 PM   # 
     - so-so saftey record?  BikeDeck   Oct-20-03 02:06 PM   #33 
        - Much, *MUCH* higher than for commercial aviation. n/t  Padraig18   Oct-20-03 02:19 PM   #43 
        - Much Much higher  BikeDeck   Oct-20-03 02:24 PM   #46 
        - Okee dokee  Padraig18   Oct-20-03 02:43 PM   #60 
           - I would look at it slightly different  BikeDeck   Oct-20-03 02:57 PM   #68 
        - And the safety record of the King Air A-100 specifically?  stickdog   Oct-21-03 02:43 PM   #175 
           - Have NONE of them ever crashed? n/t  Padraig18   Oct-21-03 03:59 PM   #220 
              - Very few.  stickdog   Oct-21-03 04:13 PM   #229 
                 - Wait!  Padraig18   Oct-21-03 04:39 PM   #242 
                 - Lame appeal to ridicule.  stickdog   Oct-21-03 04:42 PM   #244 
                 - I did  Padraig18   Oct-21-03 05:35 PM   #270 
                    - And EIGHT of those fifteen died in Wellstone's crash!  stickdog   Oct-21-03 06:04 PM   #288 
                       - 8 people, one crash, 8 dead.  Padraig18   Oct-21-03 06:07 PM   #291 
                          - Way to go! Lame appeals to ridicule suit you so well. (NT)  stickdog   Oct-21-03 06:10 PM   #294 
                             - It's all anyone, including YOU, 'knows'!  Padraig18   Oct-21-03 06:18 PM   #299 
                                - Straw man.  stickdog   Oct-21-03 06:36 PM   #310 
                                   - Ummm  Padraig18   Oct-21-03 06:47 PM   #314 
                                      - I mentioned a radio beacon (VOR) as a possible explanation for how  stickdog   Oct-21-03 06:55 PM   #316 
                                         - no, I don't need any 'stinking explanations'---  Padraig18   Oct-21-03 07:03 PM   #320 
                                            - Logic 101 Quiz: You say it must have been an accident.  stickdog   Oct-21-03 07:11 PM   #322 
                                               - Logic 101-A: *You* do  Padraig18   Oct-21-03 07:16 PM   #323 
                                               - Proof? (NT)  stickdog   Oct-21-03 07:20 PM   #324 
                                               - So obvious I won't waste time.  Padraig18   Oct-21-03 07:23 PM   #326 
                                               - And your proof for this assertion is?  stickdog   Oct-21-03 07:21 PM   #325 
                                               - It's a *fact*, not an 'assertion'  Padraig18   Oct-21-03 07:41 PM   #329 
                                               - It's not a fact. The subset of analogous deaths is too small and the  stickdog   Oct-22-03 10:09 AM   #358 
                                               - Stop your sophistry  Padraig18   Oct-22-03 12:03 PM   #362 
                                               - Forgive him, father, for he knows not what he says ... (NT)  stickdog   Oct-22-03 01:38 PM   #378 
        - We have lots of them crash out here in W Texas  Yupster   Oct-20-03 03:54 PM   #96 
     - Well, let's see, over the years there have been several  SharonAnn   Oct-20-03 01:50 PM   #15 
     - Didn't a congresscritter from Texas  Yupster   Oct-20-03 03:56 PM   #97 
     - and further  9215   Oct-20-03 01:50 PM   #17 
        - Is that why Bush tried to make Tower  birdman   Oct-20-03 01:56 PM   #25 
           - Google "Tower Commission"  9215   Oct-20-03 08:12 PM   #135 
  - Oh dear...  Padraig18   Oct-20-03 01:43 PM   #6 
  - Why am I not surprised that a Clark loving Dean supporter would be  stickdog   Oct-21-03 02:46 PM   #176 
     - Once again, the rules prevent me from posting an appropriate reply  Padraig18   Oct-21-03 04:54 PM   #254 
        - Why not just try another lame appeal to ridicule?  stickdog   Oct-21-03 05:12 PM   #260 
           - Shoo!  Padraig18   Oct-21-03 05:15 PM   #262 
              - Answering you within a single thread is stalking?  stickdog   Oct-21-03 05:35 PM   #269 
                 - Convenient how you forget about the other day... n/t  Padraig18   Oct-21-03 05:38 PM   #271 
                    - What about the "other day"?  stickdog   Oct-21-03 05:59 PM   #287 
  - other: a sad day and an abyss of sorrow  JohnKleeb   Oct-20-03 01:48 PM   #11 
  - I echo that n/t  Padraig18   Oct-20-03 01:49 PM   #13 
     - The good always die before their time for the most part and before they  JohnKleeb   Oct-20-03 01:52 PM   #18 
        - Yeah. RFK also had an unfortunate accident. (NT)  stickdog   Oct-21-03 02:48 PM   #177 
  - Sure funny how many small planes have crashed over the years....  AntiCoup2k   Oct-20-03 01:49 PM   #12 
  - Small Aircraft Crash At a Higher Rate Because Most are Piloted  mhr   Oct-20-03 01:55 PM   #23 
     - An anecdote:  Padraig18   Oct-20-03 01:59 PM   #27 
        - It Takes A Disciplined Pilot To Tell a Customer No  mhr   Oct-20-03 02:03 PM   #29 
        - Both Paul and Sheila Wellstone were afraid of flying  dflprincess   Oct-20-03 08:16 PM   #138 
        - You are ignorant. Wellstone's pilot had another pilot convince Wellstone  stickdog   Oct-21-03 02:51 PM   #179 
        - I watched coverage of the accident  VermontDem2004   Oct-20-03 02:04 PM   #31 
        - the weather in Minnesota in late October  MrsMatt   Oct-20-03 08:10 PM   #134 
           - Because you haven't investigated the accident.  stickdog   Oct-21-03 02:49 PM   #178 
              - And you have  MrsMatt   Oct-22-03 01:46 PM   #380 
        - Pilot  TKP   Oct-20-03 03:20 PM   #79 
           - You are ignorant. Wellstone's pilot was NOT going to fly into Duluth  stickdog   Oct-21-03 02:55 PM   #180 
              - dork  TKP   Oct-22-03 03:53 PM   #435 
                 - Except the weather didn't change drastically that day.  stickdog   Oct-22-03 03:58 PM   #439 
  - Don't forget Mel Carnahan's death  Wwagsthedog   Oct-20-03 01:49 PM   #14 
  - Ashcroft also benefited from another dems death in 1976.  9215   Oct-22-03 11:56 AM   #361 
  - I Am a Commercial Pilot And Would Love To Believe Bush Did It  mhr   Oct-20-03 01:50 PM   #16 
  - As I'm not myself a pilot,  Minstrel Boy   Oct-20-03 02:16 PM   #40 
  - Stall Speed Increases With Accumulated Wing Ice  mhr   Oct-20-03 02:24 PM   #45 
  - There WAS NO FUCKING ICE.  stickdog   Oct-21-03 03:04 PM   #183 
     - Then Why Did the NTSB List Icing As a Possible Contributing Factor?  mhr   Oct-21-03 06:19 PM   #300 
        - Because anything's possible?  stickdog   Oct-21-03 06:25 PM   #304 
  - Stalls  TKP   Oct-20-03 03:30 PM   #81 
  - My guess is the cause was  Yupster   Oct-20-03 04:00 PM   #100 
     - And weather sure wasn't the major factor because the weather was just  stickdog   Oct-21-03 03:06 PM   #184 
  - The plane was more than 40 mph under the recommended approach speed!  stickdog   Oct-21-03 03:01 PM   #181 
  - liberals and leftists are just "accident prone" I guess...  Minstrel Boy   Oct-20-03 01:53 PM   #19 
  - General-aviation fatalities in 2002:  Padraig18   Oct-20-03 01:55 PM   #24 
  - True  VermontDem2004   Oct-20-03 02:02 PM   #28 
  - the opposite is also true  Padraig18   Oct-20-03 02:04 PM   #30 
  - I am undecided  VermontDem2004   Oct-20-03 02:05 PM   #32 
     - I don't disagree  Padraig18   Oct-20-03 02:08 PM   #35 
        - OK how many congressmen or Senators  Corgigal   Oct-20-03 04:36 PM   #106 
           - I don't know, tbh.  Padraig18   Oct-20-03 07:16 PM   #121 
  - When The Aircraft Crashed, The Engines Were Running And  mhr   Oct-20-03 02:10 PM   #37 
  - There is no evidence to support any conclusion.  stickdog   Oct-21-03 03:11 PM   #185 
     - Aircraft Of This Type ARE NOT REQUIRED TO HAVE CVR, CDR  mhr   Oct-21-03 06:17 PM   #298 
        - You are correct that they are not required.  stickdog   Oct-21-03 06:38 PM   #311 
  - That is true  Yupster   Oct-20-03 04:03 PM   #101 
  - "People die in plane crashes every day..."  Minstrel Boy   Oct-20-03 02:07 PM   #34 
  - In the abscence of proof...  Padraig18   Oct-20-03 02:10 PM   #38 
  - Why? Where is the proof that it was an accident?  stickdog   Oct-21-03 03:15 PM   #186 
     - *No* proof?  Padraig18   Oct-21-03 04:01 PM   #222 
        - Highly safe plane, fine weather, unexplained off course turning,  stickdog   Oct-21-03 04:25 PM   #233 
           - Why do you persist in your denial about the weather.  Padraig18   Oct-21-03 04:34 PM   #239 
              - Above freezing, no wind, 3-4 miles visibility, trace fog.  stickdog   Oct-21-03 04:47 PM   #248 
                 - You are simply FACTUALLY wrong....  Jakey   Oct-21-03 05:29 PM   #266 
                    - Yes, I failed to mention the one factor that COULD possibly have  stickdog   Oct-21-03 05:39 PM   #272 
                    - Oh no, he's *never* wrong  Padraig18   Oct-21-03 05:39 PM   #273 
                       - Jakey is a fine steward of the facts. As for you,  stickdog   Oct-21-03 05:42 PM   #276 
  - Maybe Democrats Perish In Aircraft Accidents More Often Because  mhr   Oct-20-03 02:15 PM   #39 
  - Maybe, but Wellstone's King Air A100  Minstrel Boy   Oct-20-03 02:18 PM   #41 
     - That's Not The Point  mhr   Oct-20-03 02:32 PM   #51 
     - Wellstone's plane had two pilots,  Minstrel Boy   Oct-20-03 02:45 PM   #62 
     - If You Want To Counter The Facts And Believe a Myth, Fine  mhr   Oct-20-03 02:47 PM   #63 
        - If you want to believe something without any evidence or explantion, fine.  stickdog   Oct-21-03 03:26 PM   #193 
     - Murder happens, too.  stickdog   Oct-21-03 03:16 PM   #187 
     - But the primary pilot  MrsMatt   Oct-20-03 08:16 PM   #137 
  - I wonder if Republican congresscritters  Yupster   Oct-20-03 04:04 PM   #102 
  - How many of these casualties were in King Air A-100s?  stickdog   Oct-21-03 03:03 PM   #182 
     - 15  Padraig18   Oct-21-03 05:46 PM   #278 
        - 8 of these 15 died in the Wellstone crash.  stickdog   Oct-21-03 06:06 PM   #290 
           - Once again, 3rd-grade math wasn't wasted on you! n/t  Padraig18   Oct-21-03 06:20 PM   #302 
              - Too bad I can't say the same for you and Logic 101. (NT)  stickdog   Oct-21-03 06:29 PM   #306 
                 - If I'd seen you use any, i might be wounded by your reply.  Padraig18   Oct-21-03 06:31 PM   #307 
  - Let us also not forget  BikeDeck   Oct-20-03 02:09 PM   #36 
  - What the FUCK is this supposed to mean?  stickdog   Oct-21-03 03:20 PM   #189 
     - What does it mean?  BikeDeck   Oct-21-03 03:27 PM   #194 
        - Every event "contributes" to every subsequent event in this way.  stickdog   Oct-21-03 03:32 PM   #199 
           - no  BikeDeck   Oct-21-03 03:34 PM   #201 
           - Never forget  BikeDeck   Oct-21-03 03:46 PM   #210 
  - As is well-known but not commonly acknowledged  birdman   Oct-20-03 02:19 PM   #42 
  - Appeal to ridicule. (NT)  stickdog   Oct-21-03 03:27 PM   #195 
  - Oh dear God!!!!  Perky   Oct-20-03 02:22 PM   #44 
  - Yes. Because Vince Foster was killed mysteriously, we must never  stickdog   Oct-21-03 03:36 PM   #202 
     - Vince Foster blew his own brains out! n/t  Padraig18   Oct-21-03 04:04 PM   #224 
        - Yes. Because Kenneth Starr said so, it must be true. (NT)  stickdog   Oct-21-03 04:27 PM   #234 
           - No  Padraig18   Oct-21-03 04:31 PM   #237 
              - Yep, just like Enron's J. Clifford Baxter ...  stickdog   Oct-21-03 05:14 PM   #261 
                 - Let's not forget Elvis  Padraig18   Oct-21-03 05:29 PM   #265 
                    - What about Elvis' death was less than self-evident? (NT)  stickdog   Oct-21-03 05:41 PM   #274 
                       - What is not self-evident about the Wellstone crash? n/t  Padraig18   Oct-21-03 05:49 PM   #279 
                          - Let's see.  stickdog   Oct-21-03 06:09 PM   #293 
                             - let's see  Padraig18   Oct-21-03 06:13 PM   #295 
                                - Yep. Because you say so.  stickdog   Oct-21-03 06:28 PM   #305 
                                   - Need it to wash down your Thorazine and Haldol? n/t  Padraig18   Oct-21-03 06:32 PM   #308 
  - You gotta be kidding  Loyal   Oct-20-03 02:26 PM   #47 
  - Yankees suck  Perky   Oct-20-03 02:29 PM   #49 
     - Don't you realize that the Bushes assasinated  birdman   Oct-20-03 02:34 PM   #53 
     - David Letterman joke  Yupster   Oct-20-03 04:07 PM   #103 
  - Deleted message  Name removed   Oct-20-03 02:28 PM   #48 
  - ALL "Conspiracy Theories"?  Bridget Burke   Oct-20-03 02:44 PM   #61 
  - The Paul Wellstone crash was not an accident  Pastiche423   Oct-20-03 02:32 PM   #50 
  - This Proves Nothing, It Is Only An Opinion  mhr   Oct-20-03 02:33 PM   #52 
  - Was what happened to Paul  Pastiche423   Oct-20-03 02:39 PM   #55 
  - Look at this from May 25, 2001:  Minstrel Boy   Oct-20-03 02:36 PM   #54 
     - This Can Hardly Be Called a Serious Source  mhr   Oct-20-03 02:40 PM   #56 
  - Jesus Christ, people...  DealsGapRider   Oct-20-03 02:40 PM   #57 
  - I can't believe the results of poll - you guys are embarassing me  Selwynn   Oct-20-03 02:40 PM   #58 
  - The RW already thinks most of us are wack jobs  Padraig18   Oct-20-03 02:48 PM   #64 
  - No shit.  DealsGapRider   Oct-20-03 02:51 PM   #66 
  - Wow! Not another "rational" coincidence theorist! (NT)  stickdog   Oct-21-03 03:33 PM   #200 
  - Deleted message  Name removed   Oct-21-03 03:28 PM   #197 
     - The new rules prevent me from making the reply your post deserves!  Padraig18   Oct-21-03 04:17 PM   #232 
  - It's not just us. Members of Congress  Minstrel Boy   Oct-20-03 02:49 PM   #65 
  - Michael Ruppert  birdman   Oct-20-03 02:58 PM   #69 
  - we have all wondered from time to time  newsjunkie   Oct-20-03 02:59 PM   #70 
  - A fellow Minnesotan thinks otherwise  Padraig18   Oct-20-03 03:01 PM   #71 
     - The weather cleared after the pilot made that statement  Minstrel Boy   Oct-20-03 03:11 PM   #75 
     - Why ignore what Oberman said?  Padraig18   Oct-20-03 03:19 PM   #78 
        - I was merely correcting the misperception  Minstrel Boy   Oct-20-03 03:30 PM   #82 
           - There was no misperception  Padraig18   Oct-20-03 03:34 PM   #84 
     - Read the NTSB report. The pilot was talking about conditions in DULUTH  stickdog   Oct-21-03 05:03 PM   #257 
        - I bet the other pilot was in on the conspiracy  Padraig18   Oct-21-03 05:31 PM   #267 
           - Straw man.  stickdog   Oct-21-03 05:50 PM   #280 
              - Wrong, my lil' buckaroo!  Padraig18   Oct-21-03 05:55 PM   #282 
                 - Your whole purpose here is obvious  9215   Oct-21-03 09:25 PM   #337 
                    - Get your facts straight  Padraig18   Oct-22-03 04:54 AM   #346 
                       - Using the conspiracy theory to justify the conspiracy theory  birdman   Oct-22-03 05:03 AM   #347 
                          - Mmmm hmmm...  Padraig18   Oct-22-03 07:22 AM   #349 
  - Does anyone have a single shred  Pastiche423   Oct-20-03 03:01 PM   #72 
  - That's nonsensical  Padraig18   Oct-20-03 03:06 PM   #73 
     - The burden of proof is on the conspiratorials  birdman   Oct-20-03 03:10 PM   #74 
     - Ain't that the truth? n/t  Padraig18   Oct-20-03 03:11 PM   #76 
        - He means those accusing of a conspiracy must prove it.  Selwynn   Oct-20-03 03:35 PM   #86 
           - They would, if they could  Padraig18   Oct-20-03 03:38 PM   #88 
              - What is sad it that your mindset that all mysterious plane crashes MUST  stickdog   Oct-21-03 03:41 PM   #204 
                 - care to *prove* that statement? n/t  Padraig18   Oct-21-03 03:51 PM   #213 
                    - It's never happened in Africa or Indonesia or the USSR.  stickdog   Oct-21-03 03:54 PM   #215 
                       - Do you need the word 'proof' defined for you?  Padraig18   Oct-21-03 04:06 PM   #225 
                          - Can you prove that you are really a Dean supporter? (NT)  stickdog   Oct-21-03 04:29 PM   #235 
     - See post #58  Pastiche423   Oct-20-03 03:14 PM   #77 
     - Post #58 says:  Padraig18   Oct-20-03 03:21 PM   #80 
        - By pointing out truth in the midst of what I guess are a bunch of wackos  Selwynn   Oct-20-03 03:34 PM   #83 
           - Yep  Padraig18   Oct-20-03 03:36 PM   #87 
           - us wackos also know of a Salem Bin Laden  VermontDem2004   Oct-20-03 03:40 PM   #91 
           - OK  Padraig18   Oct-20-03 03:46 PM   #94 
              - Dude they're in on it too don't you know?  Selwynn   Oct-20-03 07:23 PM   #126 
                 - Appeal to ridicule (NT)  stickdog   Oct-21-03 03:44 PM   #208 
           - Spoken like a true Clarkie  stickdog   Oct-21-03 03:43 PM   #207 
     - LOL - learn what proving a negative means  Selwynn   Oct-20-03 03:38 PM   #89 
        - Wait... am I misunderstanding you?  Selwynn   Oct-20-03 03:40 PM   #90 
        - Yes, you're misunderstanding me  Padraig18   Oct-20-03 03:44 PM   #93 
           - Well, in the words of Jack Nicholson....  Selwynn   Oct-20-03 07:18 PM   #122 
        - Asking for proof it was an accident is NOT proving a negative.  stickdog   Oct-21-03 03:45 PM   #209 
  - It's an OPINION POLL, not a fucking grand jury indictment  0rganism   Oct-20-03 07:21 PM   #124 
  - Yet you believe it was an accident without any explanation.  stickdog   Oct-21-03 03:18 PM   #188 
     - The "explanation" that matters....  Jakey   Oct-21-03 03:26 PM   #191 
        - Really?  stickdog   Oct-21-03 03:47 PM   #211 
           - It seems that I read...  Jakey   Oct-21-03 03:49 PM   #212 
  - The right question to ask, still theoretical  JackRiddler   Oct-20-03 03:42 PM   #92 
  - excellent post  Minstrel Boy   Oct-20-03 03:59 PM   #99 
  - Must Take Eception - As a Pilot, There is No Credible Evidence  mhr   Oct-20-03 05:17 PM   #115 
  - You're answering as a pilot,  Minstrel Boy   Oct-20-03 07:54 PM   #132 
  - They set up a stronger VOR beacon in the woods to draw the plane  stickdog   Oct-21-03 03:53 PM   #214 
     - *proof*?  Padraig18   Oct-21-03 03:56 PM   #218 
        - There is no proof either way. I was just countering the claim that  stickdog   Oct-21-03 04:31 PM   #236 
           - In the absence of any factual evidence of this 'theory'  Padraig18   Oct-21-03 04:43 PM   #245 
              - Like your accident theory? (NT)  stickdog   Oct-21-03 04:49 PM   # 
  - The only thing that is ridiculous around here....  Selwynn   Oct-20-03 07:19 PM   #123 
     - Like the accident theory you're hyping? (NT)  stickdog   Oct-21-03 03:55 PM   #216 
  - This is pretty embarrassing.  Skinner   Oct-20-03 03:58 PM   #98 
  - Admin.  TKP   Oct-20-03 04:45 PM   #108 
  - Yes we are a bunch a kooks  VermontDem2004   Oct-20-03 04:58 PM   #110 
  - Godwin's Law  theemu   Oct-20-03 09:00 PM   #145 
     - whoever mentioned the Nazis has automatically lost  Must_B_Free   Oct-21-03 03:28 PM   #196 
  - wait a minute... the US *is* fascist :)  Selwynn   Oct-20-03 07:22 PM   #125 
  - I concur.  goobergunch   Oct-20-03 05:28 PM   #117 
  - No different than freeps blaming Clinton  AquariDem   Oct-20-03 05:32 PM   #118 
  - Not really because there is no definitive proof either way  NewYorkerfromMass   Oct-21-03 11:40 AM   #169 
  - Appeal to authority (NT)  stickdog   Oct-21-03 03:56 PM   #217 
  - He was basically killed by McGaa...he wouldn't have had to work so hard  nothingshocksmeanymore   Oct-20-03 04:20 PM   #104 
  - I agree  Loyal   Oct-20-03 04:22 PM   #105 
  - Hi <waves>  Cheswick   Oct-20-03 04:39 PM   #107 
     - Heres why  onebigbadwulf   Oct-20-03 05:01 PM   #111 
        - Funny how they are  in_cog_ni_to   Oct-20-03 05:15 PM   #113 
           - Yes. Silly us!  VermontDem2004   Oct-20-03 05:16 PM   #114 
  - PLEASE read this article  in_cog_ni_to   Oct-20-03 05:08 PM   #112 
  - Gary Caradori  Minstrel Boy   Oct-20-03 06:51 PM   #119 
  - I had never heard that story  in_cog_ni_to   Oct-20-03 07:36 PM   #130 
  - Kick  gully   Oct-20-03 07:14 PM   #120 
  - Thanks for This Poll!  DoveTurnedHawk   Oct-20-03 07:26 PM   #127 
  - Double or nothing  InkAddict   Oct-20-03 07:32 PM   #128 
  - This is ridiculous  NewJerseyDem   Oct-20-03 07:32 PM   #129 
  - Did you read Al Franken's book  in_cog_ni_to   Oct-20-03 07:44 PM   #131 
  - How long you been on the board?  9215   Oct-20-03 10:12 PM   #147 
  - Irrelevant - if you have credible evidence, post it now.  Selwynn   Oct-21-03 09:55 AM   #158 
     - "hard concrete evidence"?  Minstrel Boy   Oct-21-03 10:18 AM   #162 
     - Yes. I do hold everything to the standard of credible evidence....  Selwynn   Oct-22-03 03:27 PM   #416 
     - Please post your hard, concrete evidence that Wellstone's plane crashed  stickdog   Oct-21-03 04:33 PM   #238 
        - The burden of proof is on you to prove a conspriacy.  Selwynn   Oct-22-03 03:28 PM   #417 
           - Bullshit. We are discussing two competing speculative theories.  stickdog   Oct-22-03 03:34 PM   #423 
  - Wait a minute -  bitchkitty   Oct-21-03 11:50 AM   #170 
  - your false assumptions, not mine...  JackRiddler   Oct-21-03 05:42 PM   #275 
  - This might sway your opinion on that...  Zhade   Oct-22-03 04:08 AM   #345 
  - An FBI team was  Minstrel Boy   Oct-20-03 07:56 PM   #133 
  - omg. n/t  in_cog_ni_to   Oct-20-03 08:16 PM   #136 
  - more on the FBI's arrival:  Minstrel Boy   Oct-21-03 11:53 AM   #171 
  - yoo hoo, coincidence theorists - up here.  Minstrel Boy   Oct-21-03 07:36 PM   #327 
  - HOT!!! FBI nailed for stealing evidence from WTC crime scene!!  9215   Oct-21-03 08:44 PM   #334 
     - good catch!  Minstrel Boy   Oct-21-03 09:38 PM   #338 
        - This topic is a clusterfuck!  9215   Oct-22-03 11:17 AM   #359 
  - From: "The Best Democracy Money Can Buy" by Greg Palast  dflprincess   Oct-20-03 08:25 PM   #139 
  - In the end, it's a "gut" feeling  RBHam   Oct-20-03 08:28 PM   #140 
  - But the authorities ruled out foul play, and they wouldn't lie.  nu_duer   Oct-20-03 08:33 PM   #141 
  - I said undecided, though I lean towards "planned"  GOPBasher   Oct-20-03 08:47 PM   #143 
  - I really do not know  quaker bill   Oct-20-03 08:52 PM   #144 
  - Wellstone was a serious threat to Halliburton/Dresser .  9215   Oct-20-03 09:37 PM   #146 
  - The suspicion that it was an assassination  Lydia Leftcoast   Oct-20-03 10:51 PM   #148 
  - "Who is this chickenshit"? Poppy on Wellstone  9215   Oct-20-03 10:51 PM   #149 
  - incredibly heartbreaking.  srpantalonas   Oct-20-03 11:12 PM   #150 
  - kicking  Minstrel Boy   Oct-21-03 07:32 AM   #151 
  - "Paul Wellstone is a hunted man"  9215   Oct-21-03 09:22 AM   #152 
  - and Rove handpicked Wellstone's opponent  9215   Oct-21-03 12:47 PM   #173 
  - i'm satisfied they were murdered  amazona   Oct-21-03 09:27 AM   #153 
  - So then all the news people  birdman   Oct-21-03 09:31 AM   #154 
     - Good question  9215   Oct-21-03 09:50 AM   #157 
     - Wolf Blitzer kept stressing weather; reporter on the scene did not:  Minstrel Boy   Oct-21-03 09:59 AM   #159 
        - Thanks, Please see my post #160  9215   Oct-21-03 10:15 AM   #161 
           - Deleted message  Name removed   Oct-21-03 10:41 AM   #163 
              - Fallacy: appeal to ridicule  Minstrel Boy   Oct-21-03 10:51 AM   #164 
              - We are exploring possibilities here.  9215   Oct-21-03 11:02 AM   #165 
     - Gee...  JackRiddler   Oct-21-03 05:57 PM   #284 
  - ABC News, Dec 1, 2000: "US, Colombia Deny Assassination Attempt"  Minstrel Boy   Oct-21-03 09:39 AM   #155 
  - I blame some guy  realpolitik   Oct-21-03 09:45 AM   #156 
  - "Expert".......a CIA plant?  9215   Oct-21-03 10:11 AM   #160 
  - Wow.  Blue-Jay   Oct-21-03 11:20 AM   #166 
  - Should the Nav lights have been on?  JetJaguar   Oct-21-03 11:37 AM   #167 
  - I Am a Commercial Pilot, Navigation Lights Are Not Used During Daylight  mhr   Oct-21-03 03:26 PM   #192 
     - Perhaps I'm mistaken, but...  Jakey   Oct-21-03 03:38 PM   #203 
        - Those May Be Company Requirements However  mhr   Oct-21-03 06:14 PM   #296 
  - Nothing in the Middle...  MrPrax   Oct-21-03 11:39 AM   #168 
  - I thin democarcy ALREADY has wound up like the Roman Senate  tom_paine   Oct-21-03 11:53 AM   #172 
  - What strikes me as odd here  Padraig18   Oct-21-03 03:25 PM   #190 
  - Make that 3...  Jakey   Oct-21-03 03:31 PM   #198 
  - 4, actually  Padraig18   Oct-21-03 03:43 PM   #206 
  - And we have a bunch of Clark sympathizers leading the charge against  stickdog   Oct-21-03 04:07 PM   #226 
  - Without question?  stickdog   Oct-21-03 04:02 PM   #223 
     - Yup...without question...  Jakey   Oct-21-03 04:09 PM   #228 
     - So you reject ANY POSSIBILITY of pilot incapacitation?  stickdog   Oct-21-03 04:39 PM   #241 
        - The topic was your contention...  Jakey   Oct-21-03 04:57 PM   #256 
           - No, the topic was you contention that the weather was DEFINITELY  stickdog   Oct-21-03 05:07 PM   #258 
              - You just don't get it....  Jakey   Oct-21-03 05:18 PM   #263 
                 - IF the cause was pilot error, then the low clouds/fog were  stickdog   Oct-21-03 05:33 PM   #268 
                 - If the cause was "pilot incapacitation"....  Jakey   Oct-21-03 05:54 PM   #281 
                    - Damn you and your inconvenient facts, Jakey!  Padraig18   Oct-21-03 06:08 PM   #292 
                    - Nice rejoinder, helium!  stickdog   Oct-21-03 06:22 PM   #303 
                    - You've got those final radar returns for me, Jakey?  stickdog   Oct-21-03 06:19 PM   #301 
                 - I've repeatedly tried to explain...  Padraig18   Oct-21-03 05:42 PM   #277 
     - The weather was not fine so will you stop saying that!  Padraig18   Oct-21-03 04:15 PM   #231 
        - Above freezing, no wind, 3-4 miles of visibility, no other planes reported  stickdog   Oct-21-03 04:36 PM   #240 
           - Sweet Jesus on a pogo stick!  Padraig18   Oct-21-03 04:46 PM   #246 
           - Padraig...there ARE indications of..  Jakey   Oct-21-03 04:49 PM   #249 
           - Except there was an inversion layer and it was above freezing to about  stickdog   Oct-21-03 04:52 PM   #252 
           - All irrelevant......  Jakey   Oct-21-03 04:47 PM   #247 
              - Thanks for bringing sanity and knowledge into this debate, Jakey.  stickdog   Oct-21-03 04:56 PM   #255 
                 - "WE" are trying dog.... n/t  Jakey   Oct-21-03 05:08 PM   #259 
  - As a Commercial Pilot, There is Nothing to Prevent a Pilot  mhr   Oct-21-03 03:41 PM   #205 
  - Okay!  JackRiddler   Oct-21-03 06:06 PM   #289 
  - Deleted message  Name removed   Oct-21-03 03:59 PM   #221 
     - No, I understand perfectly well.  Padraig18   Oct-21-03 04:09 PM   #227 
        - So planes were falling out of the sky across the state that day?  stickdog   Oct-21-03 04:40 PM   #243 
           - What do you not comprehend?  Padraig18   Oct-21-03 04:50 PM   #250 
           - That the weather certainly wasn't a primary cause of the accident. (NT)  stickdog   Oct-21-03 04:54 PM   #253 
           - Just one who's crew competency is in serious contention... n/t  Jakey   Oct-21-03 04:51 PM   #251 
  - This whole thread makes me sad....  Abaques   Oct-21-03 05:25 PM   #264 
  - Read and analyze everything the NTSB has released.  stickdog   Oct-21-03 05:55 PM   #283 
  - Nor have you. n/t  Padraig18   Oct-21-03 05:57 PM   #285 
     - Hi Padraig18, Me Thinks Stickdog Has Little Practical Understanding  mhr   Oct-21-03 06:36 PM   #309 
        - Oh no! *gasp*  Padraig18   Oct-21-03 06:43 PM   #312 
        - Yeah, a VOR is truly a sophisticated, futuristic thing.  stickdog   Oct-21-03 06:48 PM   #315 
        - The weather was stable that day.  stickdog   Oct-21-03 06:43 PM   #313 
           - And MEthinks...  Padraig18   Oct-21-03 06:55 PM   #317 
           - Hand waver!  Padraig18   Oct-21-03 07:00 PM   #318 
           - Thanks, helium.  stickdog   Oct-21-03 07:00 PM   #319 
              - A site with some manner of evidence?  Padraig18   Oct-21-03 07:06 PM   #321 
           - Eveleth's "stable" weather....  Jakey   Oct-21-03 07:40 PM   #328 
              - Wow, what a violent "weather system"!  stickdog   Oct-21-03 07:48 PM   #330 
                 - Fallacy: Appeal to ridicule  Padraig18   Oct-21-03 07:52 PM   #331 
                 - Nope...just very low variable ceilings...  Jakey   Oct-21-03 08:02 PM   #332 
                    - Look. Slightly changing low cloud cover COULD have been a factor.  stickdog   Oct-21-03 09:23 PM   #336 
                       - Oh fer chrissakes.....  Jakey   Oct-21-03 09:54 PM   #339 
                          - 72% to 28% (nt)  stickdog   Oct-22-03 01:47 AM   #340 
                             - Yes, 72% are indeed stupid  Selwynn   Oct-22-03 03:30 PM   #418 
                                - Of course, you are smart enough to rule out explanations without evidence.  stickdog   Oct-22-03 03:39 PM   #427 
  - Thanks for your concern  Bridget Burke   Oct-21-03 05:59 PM   #286 
  - Well, I don't know what that other poster thinks about LIHOP  theemu   Oct-22-03 08:08 AM   #351 
  - You're probably right....  Abaques   Oct-22-03 08:36 AM   #353 
  - Yeah. A more complex and nuanced analysis would reveal that Bush  stickdog   Oct-22-03 01:41 PM   #379 
  - An example....  Abaques   Oct-22-03 08:34 AM   #352 
  - "The noble guy in a train"  JackRiddler   Oct-21-03 06:15 PM   #297 
  - Backed into a corner?  Abaques   Oct-22-03 08:51 AM   #356 
  - sad? or guilty?  9215   Oct-21-03 09:00 PM   #335 
     - Laziness?  Abaques   Oct-22-03 08:45 AM   #354 
        - Here is something think about:  9215   Oct-22-03 11:38 AM   #360 
        - No....  Abaques   Oct-22-03 01:15 PM   #372 
        - What is your explanation for what happened?  stickdog   Oct-22-03 01:49 PM   #381 
           - No, *YOU* tell us how the 'murder' happened.  Padraig18   Oct-22-03 02:09 PM   #388 
           - This is a debate, not a court of law. I'm not looking for a conviction.  stickdog   Oct-22-03 03:12 PM   #406 
              - My explanation, which you have repeatedly ignored...  Padraig18   Oct-22-03 03:17 PM   #408 
                 - Those are meaningless words. Produce a narrative explanation.  stickdog   Oct-22-03 03:26 PM   #415 
                    - You can wait until hell freezes over-- it's there, read it!  Padraig18   Oct-22-03 03:33 PM   #422 
                       - Losing an argument so completely tends to do that.  stickdog   Oct-22-03 03:45 PM   #430 
           - Everything you just posted was circumstancial evidence...  Abaques   Oct-22-03 02:18 PM   #390 
              - Where is your concrete evidence that this was an accident?  stickdog   Oct-22-03 03:19 PM   #410 
                 - Sorry, but it doesn't work that way buddy....  Abaques   Oct-22-03 05:13 PM   #445 
  - Even people who are totally A-political knew something  loudsue   Oct-21-03 08:13 PM   #333 
  - The poll gave 3 options  nomatrix   Oct-22-03 01:54 AM   #341 
  - Al, I must say that C should have been the most popular pick, IMHO (NT)  stickdog   Oct-22-03 02:33 AM   #342 
     - I'm sorry Stickdog  nomatrix   Oct-22-03 03:09 AM   #344 
  - Use of tin foil hat  nomatrix   Oct-22-03 02:52 AM   #343 
  - Pattern of conduct  Corgigal   Oct-22-03 07:49 AM   #350 
  - The FBI, the intense fire in the fuselage, the blue smoke - anybody?  Minstrel Boy   Oct-22-03 08:48 AM   #355 
  - Don't forget that all mention of the FBI was redacted from the police logs  stickdog   Oct-22-03 10:06 AM   #357 
  - Hoofbeats mean horses  Padraig18   Oct-22-03 12:19 PM   #363 
  - How does that square with this  9215   Oct-22-03 12:56 PM   #366 
  - My goal  Padraig18   Oct-22-03 01:01 PM   #368 
  - Fetzer's Reply: If You Hear Hundreds of Hoofbeats, Think Predator Hunting  stickdog   Oct-22-03 01:35 PM   #377 
  - Another voice of sanity  Padraig18   Oct-22-03 12:25 PM   #364 
  - So I take it you've nothing to say regarding  Minstrel Boy   Oct-22-03 12:53 PM   #365 
  - Links to back up *ALL* the things you 'assert', please? n/t  Padraig18   Oct-22-03 12:57 PM   #367 
  - "Reinvent the wheel tactic":  9215   Oct-22-03 01:02 PM   #369 
  - No  Padraig18   Oct-22-03 01:12 PM   #371 
  - Look to the original posts, I listed their numbers for your convenience  Minstrel Boy   Oct-22-03 01:20 PM   #374 
     - Jim fetzer? PROFESSOR Jim Fetzer from MN?  Padraig18   Oct-22-03 01:26 PM   #375 
        - Is ad hominem all you have?  Minstrel Boy   Oct-22-03 01:34 PM   #376 
        - Is that all YOU have?  Padraig18   Oct-22-03 01:56 PM   #384 
           - You know that's not true.  Minstrel Boy   Oct-22-03 02:27 PM   #392 
              - A complete and total refutation of Fetzer's 'reasoning'.  Padraig18   Oct-22-03 02:34 PM   #393 
                 - You still haven't addressed facts such as  Minstrel Boy   Oct-22-03 02:46 PM   #396 
                 - For the simple reason that...  Padraig18   Oct-22-03 03:01 PM   #402 
                    - Somehow I think nothing short of an  Minstrel Boy   Oct-22-03 03:05 PM   #403 
                       - You should have stopped when you started listening to whack job Fetzer!  Padraig18   Oct-22-03 03:18 PM   #409 
                          - Yeah, he's a professor who doesn't believe Oswald acted alone.  stickdog   Oct-22-03 03:23 PM   #412 
                          - Lack of coimplete disclosure  Padraig18   Oct-22-03 03:26 PM   #414 
                             - Really? Or are you just taking his speculations out of context? (NT)  stickdog   Oct-22-03 03:30 PM   #419 
                                - Prove me wrong. n/t  Padraig18   Oct-22-03 03:35 PM   #424 
                                   - You make an unsupported assertion as part of your ad hominem attack.  stickdog   Oct-22-03 03:42 PM   #429 
                                      - Odd time for you to finally pay attenmtion to my 'burden of proof' arg's  Padraig18   Oct-22-03 03:47 PM   #431 
                          - Just wondering, Padraig18:  Minstrel Boy   Oct-22-03 03:55 PM   #438 
                             - Yes  Padraig18   Oct-22-03 03:58 PM   #440 
                                - Thanks for the answer,  Minstrel Boy   Oct-22-03 04:04 PM   #443 
                 - The ravings of a lunatic.  stickdog   Oct-22-03 02:51 PM   #399 
                    - If anyone is a lunatic, it's Fetzer!  Padraig18   Oct-22-03 03:23 PM   #413 
                       - Avoiding the point again, Padraig18? (NT)  stickdog   Oct-22-03 03:31 PM   #421 
                          - You HAD a point?  Padraig18   Oct-22-03 03:36 PM   #425 
        - Let us know how that lawsuit turns out. Discovery is a wonderful thing.  stickdog   Oct-22-03 02:12 PM   #389 
        - Professor Fetzer's CV: Whack job with an advanced degree  Padraig18   Oct-22-03 03:07 PM   #404 
  - "unusual" blue smoke?  TrogL   Oct-22-03 02:48 PM   #398 
     - It was described as "light blue" and coming from the fuselage,  Minstrel Boy   Oct-22-03 02:58 PM   #401 
        - Like hell you didn't  Padraig18   Oct-22-03 03:10 PM   #405 
           - like hell I did  Minstrel Boy   Oct-22-03 03:14 PM   #407 
              - Apology  Padraig18   Oct-22-03 03:22 PM   #411 
                 - same here  TrogL   Oct-22-03 03:40 PM   #428 
                    - apologies appreciated  Minstrel Boy   Oct-22-03 03:48 PM   #432 
                       - Ain't it the truth?  Padraig18   Oct-22-03 03:55 PM   #436 
  - How does that square with this:  9215   Oct-22-03 01:09 PM   #370 
  - No  Padraig18   Oct-22-03 01:19 PM   #373 
     - Planes with Bush's number one political enemy on them do not crash  stickdog   Oct-22-03 02:06 PM   #386 
     - Conspiracy denier eh?  9215   Oct-22-03 06:21 PM   #446 
  - Excellent analysis  TrogL   Oct-22-03 01:49 PM   #382 
  - How about the simple murder of a man with thousands of bitter enemies?  stickdog   Oct-22-03 02:00 PM   #385 
     - You haven't proven it's murder.  Padraig18   Oct-22-03 02:07 PM   #387 
     - I haven't even alleged murder.  stickdog   Oct-22-03 02:36 PM   #394 
        - Not true  Abaques   Oct-22-03 02:47 PM   #397 
        - You haven't done anything except whine that I don't have absolute proof --  stickdog   Oct-22-03 03:52 PM   #434 
        - I suggest that it is *your* logic that is flawed  Padraig18   Oct-22-03 02:54 PM   #400 
        - Attempting to crash a plane isn't murder?  TrogL   Oct-22-03 04:03 PM   #442 
     - Colombo?  TrogL   Oct-22-03 02:24 PM   #391 
        - Columbo  stickdog   Oct-22-03 02:41 PM   #395 
           - I take it I'm not supposed to take you at face value  TrogL   Oct-22-03 03:31 PM   #420 
              - His point is being heavy on questions and light on answers. n/t  Padraig18   Oct-22-03 03:37 PM   #426 
  - Here is the entire debate.  stickdog   Oct-22-03 01:52 PM   #383 
  - I'll PROVE now for once and for all that it was FOUL PLAY  Must_B_Free   Oct-22-03 03:49 PM   #433 
  - All of the false weather reports are what put me on the trail as well.  stickdog   Oct-22-03 03:55 PM   #437 
  - In all these 400 posts  Capn Sunshine   Oct-22-03 06:48 PM   #448 
  - good point.  Minstrel Boy   Oct-22-03 04:01 PM   #441 
  - I suppose the irony escapes you  TrogL   Oct-22-03 04:08 PM   #444 
  - Conspiracy deniers relying on totally corrupt NTSB  9215   Oct-22-03 06:41 PM   #447 
  - Locking this thread and openig continuation for discussion ...  TahitiNut   Oct-22-03 07:08 PM   #449 
  - Fixed link to continuation thread ...  TahitiNut   Oct-22-03 08:36 PM   #451 
  - Just PROVE it  KFC   Oct-22-03 07:09 PM   #450 
 

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