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Nicholas_J Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-17-03 02:02 PM
Response to Original message
50. Sorry
Edited on Thu Jul-17-03 02:04 PM by Nicholas_J
But the first unmentionable, forbidden and repressed fact about the civilized world is that all civilization is based on warfare.

The second truth, is that all government power rests upon it police and military powers over the public.

The last truth is:

"It is impossible to establish a just social order."

--Bertrand de Jouvenal, Sovereignty, 1957

Bertrand de Jourvenal, in his work, "Soverignty", states, and I think truthfully, that the very worse kind of government is the one that has lost the good will of those ruled, and must resort to setting examples by using force to control a small portion of society, in order to convince the larger portion to stay in line. The good graces of the citizenry are no longer enough to give those who rule, the power to do so.

One of my favorites is:

First, popular sovreignty has tended to make it harder to recognize that society is legitimated not by majority will but by its accordance with certain principles of natural justice, like the right to liberty and property.

Indeed, historically, popular sovereignty has been often more effec-
tive at destroying the customary structures and mediating institu-
tions that protect natural rights than monarchs, because monarchi-
cal authority was hedged in by customary law and other restraint

http://216.239.53.104/search?q=cache:L8V7vgwpF3kJ:www.l...

Bottom line is, we are not responsible at all...

If anything, Saadam is resonsible, because all government, whether of a nation, or the international community, is based on both spoken and written agreement of leaders, with the consent of their people, to abide by a set of mutually acceptable rules.

After all, Saddam signed the U.N. Charter, and agreed to certain things. But so did the U.S. This is a very interesting situation the world now finds itself in.

A hundred and forty odd years ago, the First Republican states "A House Divided cannot stand" referring to the fact that a group of states signed a compact agreeing to be part of a larger community of states, called the United States. That this permanancy was a contract. Thatit was enterered into for perpetuity, was not part of the document, but implied.

Now a larger house is being divided, but both parties have broken the terms of the founding document, Iraq, by breaking the rules of the "INTERNATIONAL CONSTITUTION", and the U.S. by breaking the rules of the same "CONSTITUTION" in order to enforce the rules that Iraq broke, outside of the laws binding the international community.

I wonder how long the house will stand.
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  -Sorry, but WE are all responsible for Iraq LawDem  Jul-17-03 11:02 AM   #0 
  - Agreed  CWebster   Jul-17-03 11:06 AM   #1 
  - I think you're probably right  LeftCoast   Jul-17-03 11:06 AM   #2 
  - This is what I have been advocating, 'Coalition' pays UN peacekeeping  DUreader   Jul-17-03 11:09 AM   #3 
  - Agreed....  pepsi   Jul-17-03 11:17 AM   #10 
  - France, Germany, India, Pakistan etc.. have pretty much said no  pbeal   Jul-17-03 12:23 PM   #31 
  - I agree that "we" all have a responsibility to rectify the situation but  brigadoon   Jul-17-03 11:11 AM   #4 
  - Now the question becomes  CWebster   Jul-17-03 11:16 AM   #8 
  - Not in the primary - - but - -  brigadoon   Jul-17-03 11:25 AM   #16 
  - Isn't it convenient ...  TahitiNut   Jul-17-03 11:25 AM   #17 
  - So, are you telling me that if the democratic candidate is  brigadoon   Jul-17-03 11:34 AM   #21 
     - Deleted message  Name removed   Jul-17-03 12:30 PM   #34 
        - I will only  G_j   Jul-17-03 12:54 PM   #41 
        - "Deleted"?  TahitiNut   Jul-17-03 02:50 PM   #55 
  - "would you vote?" (Kerry didn't vote yesterday)  aunteeWar   Jul-17-03 11:54 AM   #25 
     - I wouldn't like it but who would you vote for if it was a choice between  brigadoon   Jul-17-03 12:10 PM   #29 
     - WHAT????????  CWebster   Jul-17-03 12:41 PM   #37 
  - Are you a war tax resistor?  CafeToad   Jul-17-03 11:17 AM   #9 
     - No, I am not and though I understand the principal, I don't believe  brigadoon   Jul-17-03 11:44 AM   #22 
  - by logical extension then...  tomp   Jul-17-03 11:15 AM   #5 
  - I have to agree with the original assessment  Terwilliger   Jul-17-03 11:18 AM   #11 
  - Yup.  TahitiNut   Jul-17-03 11:29 AM   #18 
     - wow, you guys are tough on yourselves.  tomp   Jul-17-03 11:51 AM   #24 
        - Revolution is always an option.  TahitiNut   Jul-17-03 12:36 PM   #35 
  - We can't leve that mess  CWebster   Jul-17-03 11:18 AM   #12 
  - Bush et al will never voluntarily apologize or give up control of the oil  Divernan   Jul-17-03 11:18 AM   #14 
  - Sorry save it for the freeptards  Sterling   Jul-17-03 11:16 AM   #6 
  - Too little; too late.  TahitiNut   Jul-17-03 11:22 AM   #15 
  - I don't know who you're answering, but it isn't me  LawDem   Jul-17-03 11:29 AM   #19 
  - Everything in your power?  sangha   Jul-17-03 11:58 AM   #27 
  - "If You Aren't Part of the Solution .."  Crisco   Jul-17-03 12:23 PM   #32 
  - It's the Fallacy of Personal Responsibility  sangha   Jul-17-03 11:16 AM   #7 
  - "we violently oppose"??  TahitiNut   Jul-17-03 11:18 AM   #13 
  - sorry, but once again, universal service...  tomp   Jul-17-03 11:54 AM   #26 
  - Chicken and egg.  TahitiNut   Jul-17-03 12:38 PM   #36 
  - AFAIC  Eloriel   Jul-17-03 01:16 PM   #44 
  - Well said. I will not allow my country to just walk away now  Tinoire   Jul-17-03 11:32 AM   #20 
  - i agree  pansypoo53219   Jul-17-03 11:46 AM   #23 
  - Walk away  aunteeWar   Jul-17-03 12:02 PM   #28 
  - Absolutely!  CafeToad   Jul-17-03 12:15 PM   #30 
  - Have I told you ...  TahitiNut   Jul-17-03 12:41 PM   #38 
  - thank you  iverglas   Jul-17-03 12:27 PM   #33 
  - At this point, it should probably be noted ...  TahitiNut   Jul-17-03 12:51 PM   #40 
  - Incorrect  Pastiche423   Jul-17-03 12:46 PM   #39 
  - Denial isn't just a river in Egypt.  TahitiNut   Jul-17-03 12:55 PM   #42 
  - Denial of what?  Pastiche423   Jul-17-03 12:59 PM   #43 
  - So you have made no financial contributions towards  CafeToad   Jul-17-03 01:22 PM   #45 
     - I pay no taxes now  Pastiche423   Jul-17-03 01:32 PM   #47 
        - OK, then you're absolved!  CafeToad   Jul-17-03 01:57 PM   #49 
           - I live below the poverty level  Pastiche423   Jul-17-03 02:50 PM   #54 
  - 95,000 "Nader Nuts" in Fla. are responsible for the war  bigwoody   Jul-17-03 01:26 PM   #46 
  - My Utopian Iraqi resolution  EAMcClure   Jul-17-03 01:33 PM   #48 
  - Sorry  Nicholas_J   Jul-17-03 02:02 PM   #50 
  - Blaming it all on Saddam is always the easy way out  CafeToad   Jul-17-03 02:22 PM   #51 
     - GREAT post!!  aunteeWar   Jul-17-03 02:29 PM   #52 
  - I don't really think anyone  liberalnproud   Jul-17-03 02:42 PM   #53 
 

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