| 145. NAh, just expressing my opinion |
|
which just happens to be shared with a supermajority of the nation.
|
| -DEBATE: Stanley "Tookie" Williams: Redemption or Revenge? |
nofurylike |
Dec-03-05 10:51 AM |
#0 |
 -
K & R! Excellent points made in this article! |
Sapphire Blue |
Dec-03-05 11:18 AM |
#1 |
  -
yes, the really are excellent! thank you Sapphire Blue! eom |
nofurylike |
Dec-03-05 11:34 AM |
#4 |
| -
Dead Man Talking - another excellent article |
Sapphire Blue |
Dec-03-05 01:50 PM |
#40 |
| -
excellent!! i have that article here on my desktop! is it okay for another |
nofurylike |
Dec-03-05 02:14 PM |
#42 |
| -
That has been done. |
Sapphire Blue |
Dec-03-05 02:29 PM |
#44 |
| -
:) well, with all these perfect law-abiding without-sin posters on this |
nofurylike |
Dec-03-05 02:40 PM |
#46 |
| -
My sins do not include multiple murder. |
Silverhair |
Dec-04-05 09:53 AM |
#206 |
| -
***Dead Man Talking IS A MUST-READ, FOLKS!! please read it!! eom |
nofurylike |
Dec-03-05 02:46 PM |
#48 |
| -
Tookie seems to really bring out the anger |
goclark |
Dec-03-05 06:13 PM |
#69 |
| -
There WAS a black man on the jury, and two other minorities. |
Silverhair |
Dec-03-05 06:40 PM |
#77 |
| -
The Tookie Groupies rely on lies. |
hiaasenrocks |
Dec-03-05 06:57 PM |
#83 |
| -
Please do some research. |
hiaasenrocks |
Dec-03-05 06:55 PM |
#82 |
| -
I have lived the BS in the inner city and |
goclark |
Dec-04-05 01:06 AM |
#194 |
| -
That's putting it mildly! |
Sapphire Blue |
Dec-04-05 01:22 AM |
#196 |
| -
Wonder how many actually READ the article in the OP? |
Sapphire Blue |
Dec-04-05 02:09 AM |
#201 |
| -
Tookie should pay for his crimes a long time ago |
Poppyseedman |
Dec-03-05 11:22 AM |
#2 |
| -
See post #3 |
Sapphire Blue |
Dec-03-05 11:35 AM |
#5 |
| -
Prove it |
Poppyseedman |
Dec-03-05 11:47 AM |
#6 |
| -
And if I did, would that change your mind? |
Sapphire Blue |
Dec-03-05 12:08 PM |
#9 |
| -
My mind is open, not so much that my brain falls out |
Poppyseedman |
Dec-03-05 12:22 PM |
#12 |
| -
Again, would the facts change your mind? |
Sapphire Blue |
Dec-03-05 12:29 PM |
#14 |
| -
Since the court declined to overturn his conviction, please present |
mondo joe |
Dec-03-05 12:55 PM |
#27 |
| -
I find it interesting you focus not on the crimes he was convicted of |
sproutster |
Dec-03-05 12:13 PM |
#10 |
| -
He had plenty of opportunities for appeal. His conviction was not |
mondo joe |
Dec-03-05 12:15 PM |
#11 |
| -
I see no reason for it NOT to be |
sproutster |
Dec-03-05 12:30 PM |
#15 |
| -
If capital punishment is the law - and it is - I see no reason for William |
mondo joe |
Dec-03-05 12:54 PM |
#26 |
| -
Then what are pardons for? If not for special cases? |
sproutster |
Dec-03-05 12:57 PM |
#28 |
| -
Pardons are indeed for special cases - but a pardon isn't what's been |
mondo joe |
Dec-03-05 01:01 PM |
#30 |
| -
Clemency defined. |
sproutster |
Dec-03-05 01:04 PM |
#32 |
| -
Point well taken. This barbaric practice needs to STOP! (links) |
Sapphire Blue |
Dec-03-05 01:00 PM |
#29 |
| -
GREAT! thank you, SB, for posting those links!! i hope people will |
nofurylike |
Dec-03-05 02:05 PM |
#41 |
| -
The other DP cases are important, too! |
Sapphire Blue |
Dec-03-05 02:28 PM |
#43 |
| -
If he is put to death - what purpose does this serve? |
Poppyseedman |
Dec-03-05 12:29 PM |
#13 |
| -
Hello - How many gang bangers die in a year? Hrmm yea death is a deterrent |
sproutster |
Dec-03-05 12:31 PM |
#16 |
| -
Whether it makes me feel better is irrelevant |
Poppyseedman |
Dec-03-05 12:41 PM |
#20 |
| -
Nice... I can touch on both |
sproutster |
Dec-03-05 12:48 PM |
#23 |
| -
very good point, sproutster! thank you! eom |
nofurylike |
Dec-03-05 07:16 PM |
#88 |
| -
You want proof? here it is |
HawkeyeX |
Dec-03-05 12:44 PM |
#22 |
| -
I have no doubt Tookie life was changed in prison |
Poppyseedman |
Dec-03-05 12:52 PM |
#25 |
| -
I guess you didn't realize.. |
HawkeyeX |
Dec-03-05 01:07 PM |
#35 |
| -
Read the case file and his numerous appeals which were denied |
Poppyseedman |
Dec-03-05 01:23 PM |
#38 |
| -
Total bull. |
hiaasenrocks |
Dec-03-05 06:06 PM |
#68 |
| -
Here's the real proof. |
Poppyseedman |
Dec-03-05 01:05 PM |
#33 |
| -
Here's the death photos |
ryan_cats |
Dec-03-05 01:11 PM |
#36 |
| -
Thank you for posting those but.... |
hiaasenrocks |
Dec-03-05 06:04 PM |
#67 |
| -
Well... |
seawolf |
Dec-03-05 06:48 PM |
#80 |
| -
As taught in the bible, Christians should be against capital punishment. |
MrsGrumpy |
Dec-03-05 06:19 PM |
#70 |
| -
Redeemed himself...from what? |
hiaasenrocks |
Dec-03-05 06:21 PM |
#72 |
| -
He says he isn't guilty, and that wasn't for me to judge. I believe |
MrsGrumpy |
Dec-03-05 06:23 PM |
#73 |
| -
I see. |
hiaasenrocks |
Dec-03-05 06:44 PM |
#78 |
| -
No. Did I call you anything....No. Blood lust is an emotion, an action |
MrsGrumpy |
Dec-03-05 07:09 PM |
#85 |
| -
Ok. Well at least you are willing to |
hiaasenrocks |
Dec-03-05 07:13 PM |
#86 |
| -
...I would never call for his death...ever. |
MrsGrumpy |
Dec-03-05 07:14 PM |
#87 |
| -
Okay, we're clear now. |
hiaasenrocks |
Dec-03-05 07:19 PM |
#89 |
| -
No, you've got it all wrong, but I suppose you wish for it to be that way; |
MrsGrumpy |
Dec-03-05 07:31 PM |
#93 |
| -
You obviously have not read |
hiaasenrocks |
Dec-03-05 08:10 PM |
#113 |
| -
I followed the trial from its inception. FWIW, I'm not a fan of "law and |
MrsGrumpy |
Dec-03-05 08:25 PM |
#125 |
| -
No one is playing God here. |
hiaasenrocks |
Dec-03-05 08:54 PM |
#154 |
| -
It is vengeance. Total vengeance. And you never answered my |
MrsGrumpy |
Dec-03-05 09:17 PM |
#170 |
| -
I did answer it. Please try reading |
hiaasenrocks |
Dec-03-05 09:37 PM |
#177 |
| -
You're pretty vicious in your attitude toward clemency. You give |
MrsGrumpy |
Dec-03-05 09:53 PM |
#178 |
| -
I have an interest in discussing this |
hiaasenrocks |
Dec-03-05 09:59 PM |
#180 |
| -
thank you so much, MrsGrumpy, for your excellent efforts to reason |
nofurylike |
Dec-04-05 10:28 AM |
#207 |
| -
In what way has he redeemed himself? . |
Poppyseedman |
Dec-03-05 07:28 PM |
#92 |
| -
I will....I lose sleep everytime we take it upon ourselves to play "God". |
MrsGrumpy |
Dec-03-05 07:38 PM |
#97 |
| -
I'm not playing God |
Poppyseedman |
Dec-03-05 07:49 PM |
#103 |
| -
Taking it upon ourselves to put someone to death "legally" is playing |
MrsGrumpy |
Dec-03-05 07:54 PM |
#107 |
| -
I personally believe the death penalty should be applied |
Poppyseedman |
Dec-03-05 08:13 PM |
#117 |
| -
wow. |
ulysses |
Dec-03-05 08:19 PM |
#120 |
| -
Would you prefer |
Poppyseedman |
Dec-03-05 08:30 PM |
#132 |
| -
no. |
ulysses |
Dec-03-05 09:04 PM |
#163 |
| -
No. NO ulysses...you have to pick INNOCENT or GUILTY/Kill HIM...no room |
MrsGrumpy |
Dec-03-05 09:18 PM |
#171 |
| -
shit - I keep forgetting |
ulysses |
Dec-03-05 09:33 PM |
#176 |
| -
The Bible does authorize state administered capital punishment. |
Silverhair |
Dec-03-05 09:14 PM |
#169 |
| -
Here...read...there's cherry picking on both sides.... |
MrsGrumpy |
Dec-03-05 09:58 PM |
#179 |
| -
Think of all the killings that WON"T happen, due to this man's efforts! |
Sapphire Blue |
Dec-03-05 11:34 AM |
#3 |
| -
See post # 6 |
Poppyseedman |
Dec-03-05 12:00 PM |
#7 |
| -
Pass, no sale |
ryan_cats |
Dec-03-05 12:35 PM |
#17 |
| -
Nice to know that you're getting your info from your "wingnut brother." |
Sapphire Blue |
Dec-03-05 12:37 PM |
#18 |
| -
I agree with you, spare his life |
ryan_cats |
Dec-03-05 12:43 PM |
#21 |
| -
I encourage you to look into the facts. |
Sapphire Blue |
Dec-03-05 12:51 PM |
#24 |
| -
I saw the prosecutor's case. |
ryan_cats |
Dec-03-05 01:01 PM |
#31 |
| -
I wouldn't want anyone that I care about to be targeted by that prosecutor |
Sapphire Blue |
Dec-03-05 01:22 PM |
#37 |
| -
I would be very careful about calling someone prejudiced. |
ryan_cats |
Dec-03-05 02:36 PM |
#45 |
| -
I was referring to your STATEMENT as seeming to be prejudiced. |
Sapphire Blue |
Dec-03-05 02:47 PM |
#49 |
| -
Thank you for clearing that up. |
ryan_cats |
Dec-03-05 08:18 PM |
#118 |
| -
You avoided addressing your earlier statement... |
Sapphire Blue |
Dec-04-05 01:20 AM |
#195 |
| -
Quit playing the race card for poor Tookie, it's dishonest. |
ryan_cats |
Dec-04-05 09:33 AM |
#204 |
| -
And, for clarification, yes, I am saying that he is NOT a "thug". |
Sapphire Blue |
Dec-03-05 02:54 PM |
#50 |
| -
Speaking of that.... |
hiaasenrocks |
Dec-03-05 06:19 PM |
#71 |
| -
Today he is a peacemaker. |
Sapphire Blue |
Dec-04-05 01:33 AM |
#197 |
| -
"....Countdown to a Legal Lynching" |
nofurylike |
Dec-03-05 04:08 PM |
#55 |
| -
Those who are so quick to believe the prosecutor should really read this! |
Sapphire Blue |
Dec-04-05 01:58 AM |
#199 |
| -
FYI: His clemency would be LIFE W/O PAROLE |
Sapphire Blue |
Dec-03-05 12:40 PM |
#19 |
| -
Other side of the coin |
michreject |
Dec-04-05 08:20 AM |
#203 |
| -
K & R... n/t |
Peter Frank |
Dec-03-05 12:00 PM |
#8 |
| -
no death penalty! |
auntAgonist |
Dec-03-05 01:05 PM |
#34 |
| -
thank you, auntAgonist! "no death penalty!" yes! eom |
nofurylike |
Dec-03-05 01:43 PM |
#39 |
| -
Save Tookie Campaign in a Nutshell |
Fescue4u |
Dec-03-05 02:45 PM |
#47 |
| -
Dead on. |
MrSlayer |
Dec-03-05 03:59 PM |
#54 |
| -
in short, you're saying, everything that happened after he failed to |
nofurylike |
Dec-03-05 04:27 PM |
#57 |
| -
Oh please. |
MrSlayer |
Dec-03-05 04:40 PM |
#58 |
| -
Good post. The other poster has been relentlessly |
hiaasenrocks |
Dec-03-05 05:19 PM |
#63 |
| -
You mean after he has someone ghost write his books for him. NT |
Silverhair |
Dec-03-05 05:29 PM |
#64 |
| -
ITA (I totally agree) n/t |
indie_voter |
Dec-03-05 05:36 PM |
#65 |
| -
More Ritual Murder in America |
Clara T |
Dec-03-05 05:07 PM |
#59 |
| -
outstanding, Clara T! getting to the crux of it all! this excellent piece |
nofurylike |
Dec-03-05 06:26 PM |
#75 |
| -
Yes, outstanding points indeed. |
hiaasenrocks |
Dec-03-05 06:32 PM |
#76 |
| -
The plight of the uninsured, elderly & infirm are now compared to Tookie? |
MrSlayer |
Dec-04-05 01:58 AM |
#198 |
| -
Absolutely correct on all counts. |
hiaasenrocks |
Dec-03-05 05:10 PM |
#60 |
| -
so, do all you "kill him" people just think the following are stupid? do |
nofurylike |
Dec-03-05 03:09 PM |
#51 |
| -
people NEED to admit |
auntAgonist |
Dec-03-05 03:13 PM |
#52 |
| -
thank you, auntAgonist, for putting words to what i see happening here! |
nofurylike |
Dec-03-05 03:34 PM |
#53 |
| -
I'm a little confused here |
michreject |
Dec-04-05 08:05 AM |
#202 |
| -
sadly, that would take having the courage to think for themselves, versus |
nofurylike |
Dec-03-05 04:21 PM |
#56 |
| -
I am capable of being wrong |
Fescue4u |
Dec-03-05 05:17 PM |
#62 |
| -
For anyone interested in the facts of the case... |
hiaasenrocks |
Dec-03-05 05:17 PM |
#61 |
| -
No death penalty, period... |
Blue_In_AK |
Dec-03-05 05:37 PM |
#66 |
| -
absolutely correct, thank you Blue_In_AK.! there is, meanwhile, a problem |
nofurylike |
Dec-03-05 06:47 PM |
#79 |
| -
I guess I probably don't think about the death penalty |
Blue_In_AK |
Dec-03-05 07:03 PM |
#84 |
| -
Not true -- Being a former Alaskan (not really - but dont live there) |
sproutster |
Dec-03-05 07:28 PM |
#91 |
| -
true. here too! thank you for the reminder, sproutster! eom |
nofurylike |
Dec-03-05 07:45 PM |
#100 |
| -
Do you recall who and when? |
Blue_In_AK |
Dec-03-05 07:53 PM |
#106 |
| -
Remember the road rage case? Comming off of... (Glenn Highway?) |
sproutster |
Dec-03-05 07:57 PM |
#110 |
| -
Oh, Ray Cheely and Doug Gustafson.... |
Blue_In_AK |
Dec-03-05 08:13 PM |
#115 |
| -
Wow... I remember it well because the day after it happened |
sproutster |
Dec-03-05 08:18 PM |
#119 |
| -
i hear a lot of things i like about Alaska. that's one more. though, we |
nofurylike |
Dec-03-05 07:33 PM |
#95 |
| -
The only way to have any justice in this is to execute the murderer n/t |
Walt Starr |
Dec-03-05 06:23 PM |
#74 |
| -
Undeniable...and it will happen. n/t |
hiaasenrocks |
Dec-03-05 06:51 PM |
#81 |
| -
how is that justice? |
ulysses |
Dec-03-05 07:26 PM |
#90 |
| -
How is anything less than the DP just for such premeditated brutal... |
Silverhair |
Dec-03-05 07:33 PM |
#94 |
| -
I asked first. |
ulysses |
Dec-03-05 07:38 PM |
#96 |
| -
Thank you ulysses. |
MrsGrumpy |
Dec-03-05 07:42 PM |
#98 |
| -
isn't that the amusing part? |
ulysses |
Dec-03-05 07:49 PM |
#102 |
| -
Suicide watch is important |
Clara T |
Dec-03-05 08:00 PM |
#111 |
| -
..and it is the ultimate oxymoron. |
MrsGrumpy |
Dec-03-05 08:08 PM |
#112 |
| -
wow. yes. yes! thank you! clarity ! :) |
nofurylike |
Dec-03-05 09:26 PM |
#172 |
| -
The Death Penalty is JUSTICE, not veangenace. |
Walt Starr |
Dec-03-05 07:45 PM |
#101 |
| -
says you. |
ulysses |
Dec-03-05 07:50 PM |
#104 |
| -
There are crimes so heinous that the perpetrators can no longer be |
Walt Starr |
Dec-03-05 07:57 PM |
#109 |
| -
says who??? |
ulysses |
Dec-03-05 08:13 PM |
#116 |
| -
The people decide it - through their elected representatives. |
Silverhair |
Dec-03-05 08:32 PM |
#136 |
| -
trust me when I say |
ulysses |
Dec-03-05 08:34 PM |
#137 |
| -
Says OUR society! |
Walt Starr |
Dec-03-05 08:40 PM |
#142 |
| -
Well said. |
hiaasenrocks |
Dec-03-05 08:41 PM |
#144 |
| -
I'll direct you to my post #123. |
ulysses |
Dec-03-05 08:50 PM |
#150 |
| -
I'll direct you to Article V of the constitution |
Walt Starr |
Dec-03-05 08:56 PM |
#155 |
| -
. |
ulysses |
Dec-03-05 08:58 PM |
#158 |
| -
Please, Walt. Refrain from posting any |
hiaasenrocks |
Dec-03-05 09:11 PM |
#167 |
| -
heh - you needn't have worried. |
ulysses |
Dec-03-05 09:31 PM |
#175 |
| -
Great points. |
hiaasenrocks |
Dec-03-05 08:20 PM |
#121 |
| -
yup. |
ulysses |
Dec-03-05 08:23 PM |
#123 |
| -
Well, isn't that interesting.... |
hiaasenrocks |
Dec-03-05 08:26 PM |
#127 |
| -
Abuse of power is abuse of power....regardless of the circumstances. |
MrsGrumpy |
Dec-03-05 08:27 PM |
#128 |
| -
Please provide evidence that |
hiaasenrocks |
Dec-03-05 08:29 PM |
#131 |
| -
Ummmm...We're discussing this further up. Two wrongs will never |
MrsGrumpy |
Dec-03-05 08:32 PM |
#134 |
| -
I'm not out there "stomping" for |
hiaasenrocks |
Dec-03-05 08:37 PM |
#139 |
| -
Evidence? |
Poppyseedman |
Dec-03-05 08:44 PM |
#146 |
| -
whose strawman? |
ulysses |
Dec-03-05 08:30 PM |
#133 |
| -
That was your example. |
hiaasenrocks |
Dec-03-05 08:34 PM |
#138 |
| -
try to follow this. |
ulysses |
Dec-03-05 08:41 PM |
#143 |
| -
Holy crap, read your own posts. |
hiaasenrocks |
Dec-03-05 08:47 PM |
#148 |
| -
? |
ulysses |
Dec-03-05 08:52 PM |
#153 |
| -
You obviously are not |
hiaasenrocks |
Dec-03-05 08:59 PM |
#159 |
| -
I've run from nothing, friend. |
ulysses |
Dec-03-05 09:03 PM |
#162 |
| -
Yes, we see clearly where the emotion lies. |
hiaasenrocks |
Dec-03-05 09:08 PM |
#165 |
| -
"compassion for four-time murderers" |
ulysses |
Dec-03-05 09:26 PM |
#173 |
| -
The Death Penalty has nothing whatsoever to do with veangence |
Walt Starr |
Dec-03-05 07:44 PM |
#99 |
| -
the death penalty has everything to do with vengeance. |
ulysses |
Dec-03-05 07:51 PM |
#105 |
| -
Because of the heinous nature of the crimes |
Walt Starr |
Dec-03-05 07:55 PM |
#108 |
| -
that's why why? |
ulysses |
Dec-03-05 08:10 PM |
#114 |
| -
I'm asked "that's why why?" |
Walt Starr |
Dec-03-05 08:37 PM |
#140 |
| -
none of your answers has any basis |
ulysses |
Dec-03-05 08:49 PM |
#149 |
| -
SOCIETY DOES IT! |
Walt Starr |
Dec-03-05 08:51 PM |
#152 |
| -
society does a lot of things, Walt. |
ulysses |
Dec-03-05 08:56 PM |
#156 |
| -
Sticking a needle in Tookie's arm sure as HELL would be justice in this |
Walt Starr |
Dec-03-05 08:57 PM |
#157 |
| -
you still haven't explained how. n/t |
ulysses |
Dec-03-05 08:59 PM |
#160 |
| -
You are asking a religious question, not a civics one. |
Silverhair |
Dec-03-05 09:12 PM |
#168 |
| -
no, not really. |
ulysses |
Dec-03-05 09:30 PM |
#174 |
| -
You are asking what ultimate authority authorized the DP. |
Silverhair |
Dec-03-05 10:02 PM |
#181 |
| -
ah. |
ulysses |
Dec-03-05 10:06 PM |
#182 |
| -
Thus your question is religious, and you should go to R/T forum. |
Silverhair |
Dec-03-05 10:15 PM |
#183 |
| -
morality is defacto a religious issue? |
ulysses |
Dec-03-05 10:16 PM |
#184 |
| -
By what standard do you define if an action is moral? NT |
Silverhair |
Dec-03-05 10:20 PM |
#185 |
| -
whether or not it harms another. n/t |
ulysses |
Dec-03-05 10:21 PM |
#186 |
| -
What makes that moral? |
Silverhair |
Dec-03-05 10:29 PM |
#187 |
| -
ok. |
ulysses |
Dec-03-05 10:40 PM |
#188 |
| -
Divine law and killing. |
Silverhair |
Dec-03-05 11:00 PM |
#189 |
| -
"Which religious system are we going to go by?" |
ulysses |
Dec-03-05 11:04 PM |
#190 |
| -
It's late. I will get back to you tomorrow. Passage is in Romans. NT |
Silverhair |
Dec-03-05 11:07 PM |
#191 |
| -
ah, Romans. |
ulysses |
Dec-03-05 11:13 PM |
#192 |
| -
Walt, you deserve a medal for taking on |
hiaasenrocks |
Dec-03-05 08:23 PM |
#122 |
| -
heh. |
ulysses |
Dec-03-05 08:24 PM |
#124 |
| -
Nope. |
hiaasenrocks |
Dec-03-05 08:28 PM |
#130 |
| -
wrong. |
ulysses |
Dec-03-05 08:32 PM |
#135 |
| -
You asked me for my opinion. |
hiaasenrocks |
Dec-03-05 08:39 PM |
#141 |
| -
right - not for new definitions of words. |
ulysses |
Dec-03-05 08:46 PM |
#147 |
| -
It has a perfect place in a society that is |
hiaasenrocks |
Dec-03-05 08:51 PM |
#151 |
| -
huh? |
ulysses |
Dec-03-05 09:02 PM |
#161 |
| -
LOL |
hiaasenrocks |
Dec-03-05 09:06 PM |
#164 |
| -
"Nice try on the race card." |
ulysses |
Dec-03-05 09:10 PM |
#166 |
| -
NAh, just expressing my opinion |
Walt Starr |
Dec-03-05 08:42 PM |
#145 |
| -
You are 100% correct. |
ryan_cats |
Dec-04-05 09:51 AM |
#205 |
| -
You cannot reason with someone about their pre-judgments which are not |
Czolgosz |
Dec-03-05 08:25 PM |
#126 |
| -
that's probably true |
ulysses |
Dec-03-05 08:27 PM |
#129 |
| -
* |
nofurylike |
Dec-04-05 12:35 AM |
#193 |
| -
* |
Sapphire Blue |
Dec-04-05 02:03 AM |
#200 |
| -
DEBATE: Race plays a role in death penalty implementation. BAN the DP! |
nofurylike |
Dec-04-05 11:37 AM |
#208 |
| -
Locking |
Opposite Reaction |
Dec-04-05 11:54 AM |
#209 |
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