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Reply #99: The Death Penalty has nothing whatsoever to do with veangence [View All]

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Walt Starr Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-03-05 07:44 PM
Response to Reply #90
99. The Death Penalty has nothing whatsoever to do with veangence
it's all about justice.

The reason we have a Death Penalty is because of the fact that there are some people who will commit a crime so heinous, the only just thing to do is remove them forever from every possible level of human society, including prison.

The only way to accomplish that justice is by putting criminals this heinous to death.
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  -DEBATE: Stanley "Tookie" Williams: Redemption or Revenge? nofurylike  Dec-03-05 10:51 AM   #0 
  - K & R! Excellent points made in this article!  Sapphire Blue   Dec-03-05 11:18 AM   #1 
  - yes, the really are excellent! thank you Sapphire Blue! eom  nofurylike   Dec-03-05 11:34 AM   #4 
     - Dead Man Talking - another excellent article  Sapphire Blue   Dec-03-05 01:50 PM   #40 
        - excellent!! i have that article here on my desktop! is it okay for another  nofurylike   Dec-03-05 02:14 PM   #42 
        - That has been done.  Sapphire Blue   Dec-03-05 02:29 PM   #44 
           - :) well, with all these perfect law-abiding without-sin posters on this  nofurylike   Dec-03-05 02:40 PM   #46 
              - My sins do not include multiple murder.  Silverhair   Dec-04-05 09:53 AM   #206 
        - ***Dead Man Talking IS A MUST-READ, FOLKS!! please read it!! eom  nofurylike   Dec-03-05 02:46 PM   #48 
        - Tookie seems to really bring out the anger  goclark   Dec-03-05 06:13 PM   #69 
           - There WAS a black man on the jury, and two other minorities.  Silverhair   Dec-03-05 06:40 PM   #77 
           - The Tookie Groupies rely on lies.  hiaasenrocks   Dec-03-05 06:57 PM   #83 
           - Please do some research.  hiaasenrocks   Dec-03-05 06:55 PM   #82 
           - I have lived the BS in the inner city and  goclark   Dec-04-05 01:06 AM   #194 
           - That's putting it mildly!  Sapphire Blue   Dec-04-05 01:22 AM   #196 
           - Wonder how many actually READ the article in the OP?  Sapphire Blue   Dec-04-05 02:09 AM   #201 
  - Tookie should pay for his crimes a long time ago  Poppyseedman   Dec-03-05 11:22 AM   #2 
  - See post #3  Sapphire Blue   Dec-03-05 11:35 AM   #5 
  - Prove it  Poppyseedman   Dec-03-05 11:47 AM   #6 
     - And if I did, would that change your mind?  Sapphire Blue   Dec-03-05 12:08 PM   #9 
     - My mind is open, not so much that my brain falls out  Poppyseedman   Dec-03-05 12:22 PM   #12 
        - Again, would the facts change your mind?  Sapphire Blue   Dec-03-05 12:29 PM   #14 
           - Since the court declined to overturn his conviction, please present  mondo joe   Dec-03-05 12:55 PM   #27 
     - I find it interesting you focus not on the crimes he was convicted of  sproutster   Dec-03-05 12:13 PM   #10 
     - He had plenty of opportunities for appeal. His conviction was not  mondo joe   Dec-03-05 12:15 PM   #11 
     - I see no reason for it NOT to be  sproutster   Dec-03-05 12:30 PM   #15 
        - If capital punishment is the law - and it is - I see no reason for William  mondo joe   Dec-03-05 12:54 PM   #26 
           - Then what are pardons for? If not for special cases?  sproutster   Dec-03-05 12:57 PM   #28 
           - Pardons are indeed for special cases - but a pardon isn't what's been  mondo joe   Dec-03-05 01:01 PM   #30 
              - Clemency defined.  sproutster   Dec-03-05 01:04 PM   #32 
           - Point well taken. This barbaric practice needs to STOP! (links)  Sapphire Blue   Dec-03-05 01:00 PM   #29 
              - GREAT! thank you, SB, for posting those links!! i hope people will  nofurylike   Dec-03-05 02:05 PM   #41 
                 - The other DP cases are important, too!  Sapphire Blue   Dec-03-05 02:28 PM   #43 
     - If he is put to death - what purpose does this serve?  Poppyseedman   Dec-03-05 12:29 PM   #13 
        - Hello - How many gang bangers die in a year? Hrmm yea death is a deterrent  sproutster   Dec-03-05 12:31 PM   #16 
           - Whether it makes me feel better is irrelevant  Poppyseedman   Dec-03-05 12:41 PM   #20 
           - Nice... I can touch on both  sproutster   Dec-03-05 12:48 PM   #23 
           - very good point, sproutster! thank you! eom  nofurylike   Dec-03-05 07:16 PM   #88 
     - You want proof? here it is  HawkeyeX   Dec-03-05 12:44 PM   #22 
     - I have no doubt Tookie life was changed in prison  Poppyseedman   Dec-03-05 12:52 PM   #25 
     - I guess you didn't realize..  HawkeyeX   Dec-03-05 01:07 PM   #35 
        - Read the case file and his numerous appeals which were denied  Poppyseedman   Dec-03-05 01:23 PM   #38 
        - Total bull.  hiaasenrocks   Dec-03-05 06:06 PM   #68 
     - Here's the real proof.  Poppyseedman   Dec-03-05 01:05 PM   #33 
        - Here's the death photos  ryan_cats   Dec-03-05 01:11 PM   #36 
           - Thank you for posting those but....  hiaasenrocks   Dec-03-05 06:04 PM   #67 
     - Well...  seawolf   Dec-03-05 06:48 PM   #80 
  - As taught in the bible, Christians should be against capital punishment.  MrsGrumpy   Dec-03-05 06:19 PM   #70 
     - Redeemed himself...from what?  hiaasenrocks   Dec-03-05 06:21 PM   #72 
     - He says he isn't guilty, and that wasn't for me to judge. I believe  MrsGrumpy   Dec-03-05 06:23 PM   #73 
        - I see.  hiaasenrocks   Dec-03-05 06:44 PM   #78 
        - No. Did I call you anything....No. Blood lust is an emotion, an action  MrsGrumpy   Dec-03-05 07:09 PM   #85 
           - Ok. Well at least you are willing to  hiaasenrocks   Dec-03-05 07:13 PM   #86 
              - ...I would never call for his death...ever.  MrsGrumpy   Dec-03-05 07:14 PM   #87 
                 - Okay, we're clear now.  hiaasenrocks   Dec-03-05 07:19 PM   #89 
                    - No, you've got it all wrong, but I suppose you wish for it to be that way;  MrsGrumpy   Dec-03-05 07:31 PM   #93 
                       - You obviously have not read  hiaasenrocks   Dec-03-05 08:10 PM   #113 
                          - I followed the trial from its inception. FWIW, I'm not a fan of "law and  MrsGrumpy   Dec-03-05 08:25 PM   #125 
                             - No one is playing God here.  hiaasenrocks   Dec-03-05 08:54 PM   #154 
                                - It is vengeance. Total vengeance. And you never answered my  MrsGrumpy   Dec-03-05 09:17 PM   #170 
                                   - I did answer it. Please try reading  hiaasenrocks   Dec-03-05 09:37 PM   #177 
                                      - You're pretty vicious in your attitude toward clemency. You give  MrsGrumpy   Dec-03-05 09:53 PM   #178 
                                         - I have an interest in discussing this  hiaasenrocks   Dec-03-05 09:59 PM   #180 
        - thank you so much, MrsGrumpy, for your excellent efforts to reason  nofurylike   Dec-04-05 10:28 AM   #207 
     - In what way has he redeemed himself? .  Poppyseedman   Dec-03-05 07:28 PM   #92 
     - I will....I lose sleep everytime we take it upon ourselves to play "God".  MrsGrumpy   Dec-03-05 07:38 PM   #97 
        - I'm not playing God  Poppyseedman   Dec-03-05 07:49 PM   #103 
           - Taking it upon ourselves to put someone to death "legally" is playing  MrsGrumpy   Dec-03-05 07:54 PM   #107 
              - I personally believe the death penalty should be applied  Poppyseedman   Dec-03-05 08:13 PM   #117 
                 - wow.  ulysses   Dec-03-05 08:19 PM   #120 
                    - Would you prefer  Poppyseedman   Dec-03-05 08:30 PM   #132 
                       - no.  ulysses   Dec-03-05 09:04 PM   #163 
                          - No. NO ulysses...you have to pick INNOCENT or GUILTY/Kill HIM...no room  MrsGrumpy   Dec-03-05 09:18 PM   #171 
                             - shit - I keep forgetting  ulysses   Dec-03-05 09:33 PM   #176 
     - The Bible does authorize state administered capital punishment.  Silverhair   Dec-03-05 09:14 PM   #169 
        - Here...read...there's cherry picking on both sides....  MrsGrumpy   Dec-03-05 09:58 PM   #179 
  - Think of all the killings that WON"T happen, due to this man's efforts!  Sapphire Blue   Dec-03-05 11:34 AM   #3 
  - See post # 6  Poppyseedman   Dec-03-05 12:00 PM   #7 
  - Pass, no sale  ryan_cats   Dec-03-05 12:35 PM   #17 
  - Nice to know that you're getting your info from your "wingnut brother."  Sapphire Blue   Dec-03-05 12:37 PM   #18 
  - I agree with you, spare his life  ryan_cats   Dec-03-05 12:43 PM   #21 
     - I encourage you to look into the facts.  Sapphire Blue   Dec-03-05 12:51 PM   #24 
        - I saw the prosecutor's case.  ryan_cats   Dec-03-05 01:01 PM   #31 
           - I wouldn't want anyone that I care about to be targeted by that prosecutor  Sapphire Blue   Dec-03-05 01:22 PM   #37 
           - I would be very careful about calling someone prejudiced.  ryan_cats   Dec-03-05 02:36 PM   #45 
              - I was referring to your STATEMENT as seeming to be prejudiced.  Sapphire Blue   Dec-03-05 02:47 PM   #49 
              - Thank you for clearing that up.  ryan_cats   Dec-03-05 08:18 PM   #118 
                 - You avoided addressing your earlier statement...  Sapphire Blue   Dec-04-05 01:20 AM   #195 
                    - Quit playing the race card for poor Tookie, it's dishonest.  ryan_cats   Dec-04-05 09:33 AM   #204 
              - And, for clarification, yes, I am saying that he is NOT a "thug".  Sapphire Blue   Dec-03-05 02:54 PM   #50 
                 - Speaking of that....  hiaasenrocks   Dec-03-05 06:19 PM   #71 
                 - Today he is a peacemaker.  Sapphire Blue   Dec-04-05 01:33 AM   #197 
           - "....Countdown to a Legal Lynching"  nofurylike   Dec-03-05 04:08 PM   #55 
              - Those who are so quick to believe the prosecutor should really read this!  Sapphire Blue   Dec-04-05 01:58 AM   #199 
  - FYI: His clemency would be LIFE W/O PAROLE  Sapphire Blue   Dec-03-05 12:40 PM   #19 
  - Other side of the coin  michreject   Dec-04-05 08:20 AM   #203 
  - K & R... n/t  Peter Frank   Dec-03-05 12:00 PM   #8 
  - no death penalty!  auntAgonist   Dec-03-05 01:05 PM   #34 
  - thank you, auntAgonist! "no death penalty!" yes! eom  nofurylike   Dec-03-05 01:43 PM   #39 
  - Save Tookie Campaign in a Nutshell  Fescue4u   Dec-03-05 02:45 PM   #47 
  - Dead on.  MrSlayer   Dec-03-05 03:59 PM   #54 
  - in short, you're saying, everything that happened after he failed to  nofurylike   Dec-03-05 04:27 PM   #57 
  - Oh please.  MrSlayer   Dec-03-05 04:40 PM   #58 
     - Good post. The other poster has been relentlessly  hiaasenrocks   Dec-03-05 05:19 PM   #63 
     - You mean after he has someone ghost write his books for him. NT  Silverhair   Dec-03-05 05:29 PM   #64 
     - ITA (I totally agree) n/t  indie_voter   Dec-03-05 05:36 PM   #65 
  - More Ritual Murder in America  Clara T   Dec-03-05 05:07 PM   #59 
     - outstanding, Clara T! getting to the crux of it all! this excellent piece  nofurylike   Dec-03-05 06:26 PM   #75 
     - Yes, outstanding points indeed.  hiaasenrocks   Dec-03-05 06:32 PM   #76 
     - The plight of the uninsured, elderly & infirm are now compared to Tookie?  MrSlayer   Dec-04-05 01:58 AM   #198 
  - Absolutely correct on all counts.  hiaasenrocks   Dec-03-05 05:10 PM   #60 
  - so, do all you "kill him" people just think the following are stupid? do  nofurylike   Dec-03-05 03:09 PM   #51 
  - people NEED to admit  auntAgonist   Dec-03-05 03:13 PM   #52 
  - thank you, auntAgonist, for putting words to what i see happening here!  nofurylike   Dec-03-05 03:34 PM   #53 
  - I'm a little confused here  michreject   Dec-04-05 08:05 AM   #202 
  - sadly, that would take having the courage to think for themselves, versus  nofurylike   Dec-03-05 04:21 PM   #56 
  - I am capable of being wrong  Fescue4u   Dec-03-05 05:17 PM   #62 
  - For anyone interested in the facts of the case...  hiaasenrocks   Dec-03-05 05:17 PM   #61 
  - No death penalty, period...  Blue_In_AK   Dec-03-05 05:37 PM   #66 
  - absolutely correct, thank you Blue_In_AK.! there is, meanwhile, a problem  nofurylike   Dec-03-05 06:47 PM   #79 
     - I guess I probably don't think about the death penalty  Blue_In_AK   Dec-03-05 07:03 PM   #84 
        - Not true -- Being a former Alaskan (not really - but dont live there)  sproutster   Dec-03-05 07:28 PM   #91 
        - true. here too! thank you for the reminder, sproutster! eom  nofurylike   Dec-03-05 07:45 PM   #100 
        - Do you recall who and when?  Blue_In_AK   Dec-03-05 07:53 PM   #106 
           - Remember the road rage case? Comming off of... (Glenn Highway?)  sproutster   Dec-03-05 07:57 PM   #110 
              - Oh, Ray Cheely and Doug Gustafson....  Blue_In_AK   Dec-03-05 08:13 PM   #115 
                 - Wow... I remember it well because the day after it happened  sproutster   Dec-03-05 08:18 PM   #119 
        - i hear a lot of things i like about Alaska. that's one more. though, we  nofurylike   Dec-03-05 07:33 PM   #95 
  - The only way to have any justice in this is to execute the murderer n/t  Walt Starr   Dec-03-05 06:23 PM   #74 
  - Undeniable...and it will happen. n/t  hiaasenrocks   Dec-03-05 06:51 PM   #81 
  - how is that justice?  ulysses   Dec-03-05 07:26 PM   #90 
     - How is anything less than the DP just for such premeditated brutal...  Silverhair   Dec-03-05 07:33 PM   #94 
     - I asked first.  ulysses   Dec-03-05 07:38 PM   #96 
        - Thank you ulysses.  MrsGrumpy   Dec-03-05 07:42 PM   #98 
        - isn't that the amusing part?  ulysses   Dec-03-05 07:49 PM   #102 
           - Suicide watch is important  Clara T   Dec-03-05 08:00 PM   #111 
              - ..and it is the ultimate oxymoron.  MrsGrumpy   Dec-03-05 08:08 PM   #112 
              - wow. yes. yes! thank you! clarity ! :)  nofurylike   Dec-03-05 09:26 PM   #172 
        - The Death Penalty is JUSTICE, not veangenace.  Walt Starr   Dec-03-05 07:45 PM   #101 
           - says you.  ulysses   Dec-03-05 07:50 PM   #104 
              - There are crimes so heinous that the perpetrators can no longer be  Walt Starr   Dec-03-05 07:57 PM   #109 
                 - says who???  ulysses   Dec-03-05 08:13 PM   #116 
                 - The people decide it - through their elected representatives.  Silverhair   Dec-03-05 08:32 PM   #136 
                 - trust me when I say  ulysses   Dec-03-05 08:34 PM   #137 
                 - Says OUR society!  Walt Starr   Dec-03-05 08:40 PM   #142 
                    - Well said.  hiaasenrocks   Dec-03-05 08:41 PM   #144 
                    - I'll direct you to my post #123.  ulysses   Dec-03-05 08:50 PM   #150 
                       - I'll direct you to Article V of the constitution  Walt Starr   Dec-03-05 08:56 PM   #155 
                          - .  ulysses   Dec-03-05 08:58 PM   #158 
                          - Please, Walt. Refrain from posting any  hiaasenrocks   Dec-03-05 09:11 PM   #167 
                             - heh - you needn't have worried.  ulysses   Dec-03-05 09:31 PM   #175 
                 - Great points.  hiaasenrocks   Dec-03-05 08:20 PM   #121 
                    - yup.  ulysses   Dec-03-05 08:23 PM   #123 
                       - Well, isn't that interesting....  hiaasenrocks   Dec-03-05 08:26 PM   #127 
                          - Abuse of power is abuse of power....regardless of the circumstances.  MrsGrumpy   Dec-03-05 08:27 PM   #128 
                          - Please provide evidence that  hiaasenrocks   Dec-03-05 08:29 PM   #131 
                             - Ummmm...We're discussing this further up. Two wrongs will never  MrsGrumpy   Dec-03-05 08:32 PM   #134 
                             - I'm not out there "stomping" for  hiaasenrocks   Dec-03-05 08:37 PM   #139 
                             - Evidence?  Poppyseedman   Dec-03-05 08:44 PM   #146 
                          - whose strawman?  ulysses   Dec-03-05 08:30 PM   #133 
                             - That was your example.  hiaasenrocks   Dec-03-05 08:34 PM   #138 
                                - try to follow this.  ulysses   Dec-03-05 08:41 PM   #143 
                                   - Holy crap, read your own posts.  hiaasenrocks   Dec-03-05 08:47 PM   #148 
                                      - ?  ulysses   Dec-03-05 08:52 PM   #153 
                                         - You obviously are not  hiaasenrocks   Dec-03-05 08:59 PM   #159 
                                            - I've run from nothing, friend.  ulysses   Dec-03-05 09:03 PM   #162 
                                               - Yes, we see clearly where the emotion lies.  hiaasenrocks   Dec-03-05 09:08 PM   #165 
                                                  - "compassion for four-time murderers"  ulysses   Dec-03-05 09:26 PM   #173 
     - The Death Penalty has nothing whatsoever to do with veangence  Walt Starr   Dec-03-05 07:44 PM   #99 
        - the death penalty has everything to do with vengeance.  ulysses   Dec-03-05 07:51 PM   #105 
           - Because of the heinous nature of the crimes  Walt Starr   Dec-03-05 07:55 PM   #108 
           - that's why why?  ulysses   Dec-03-05 08:10 PM   #114 
           - I'm asked "that's why why?"  Walt Starr   Dec-03-05 08:37 PM   #140 
              - none of your answers has any basis  ulysses   Dec-03-05 08:49 PM   #149 
                 - SOCIETY DOES IT!  Walt Starr   Dec-03-05 08:51 PM   #152 
                    - society does a lot of things, Walt.  ulysses   Dec-03-05 08:56 PM   #156 
                       - Sticking a needle in Tookie's arm sure as HELL would be justice in this  Walt Starr   Dec-03-05 08:57 PM   #157 
                          - you still haven't explained how. n/t  ulysses   Dec-03-05 08:59 PM   #160 
                             - You are asking a religious question, not a civics one.  Silverhair   Dec-03-05 09:12 PM   #168 
                                - no, not really.  ulysses   Dec-03-05 09:30 PM   #174 
                                   - You are asking what ultimate authority authorized the DP.  Silverhair   Dec-03-05 10:02 PM   #181 
                                      - ah.  ulysses   Dec-03-05 10:06 PM   #182 
                                         - Thus your question is religious, and you should go to R/T forum.  Silverhair   Dec-03-05 10:15 PM   #183 
                                            - morality is defacto a religious issue?  ulysses   Dec-03-05 10:16 PM   #184 
                                               - By what standard do you define if an action is moral? NT  Silverhair   Dec-03-05 10:20 PM   #185 
                                               - whether or not it harms another. n/t  ulysses   Dec-03-05 10:21 PM   #186 
                                               - What makes that moral?  Silverhair   Dec-03-05 10:29 PM   #187 
                                               - ok.  ulysses   Dec-03-05 10:40 PM   #188 
                                               - Divine law and killing.  Silverhair   Dec-03-05 11:00 PM   #189 
                                               - "Which religious system are we going to go by?"  ulysses   Dec-03-05 11:04 PM   #190 
                                               - It's late. I will get back to you tomorrow. Passage is in Romans. NT  Silverhair   Dec-03-05 11:07 PM   #191 
                                               - ah, Romans.  ulysses   Dec-03-05 11:13 PM   #192 
           - Walt, you deserve a medal for taking on  hiaasenrocks   Dec-03-05 08:23 PM   #122 
              - heh.  ulysses   Dec-03-05 08:24 PM   #124 
              - Nope.  hiaasenrocks   Dec-03-05 08:28 PM   #130 
                 - wrong.  ulysses   Dec-03-05 08:32 PM   #135 
                    - You asked me for my opinion.  hiaasenrocks   Dec-03-05 08:39 PM   #141 
                       - right - not for new definitions of words.  ulysses   Dec-03-05 08:46 PM   #147 
                          - It has a perfect place in a society that is  hiaasenrocks   Dec-03-05 08:51 PM   #151 
                             - huh?  ulysses   Dec-03-05 09:02 PM   #161 
                                - LOL  hiaasenrocks   Dec-03-05 09:06 PM   #164 
                                   - "Nice try on the race card."  ulysses   Dec-03-05 09:10 PM   #166 
              - NAh, just expressing my opinion  Walt Starr   Dec-03-05 08:42 PM   #145 
              - You are 100% correct.  ryan_cats   Dec-04-05 09:51 AM   #205 
           - You cannot reason with someone about their pre-judgments which are not  Czolgosz   Dec-03-05 08:25 PM   #126 
              - that's probably true  ulysses   Dec-03-05 08:27 PM   #129 
                 - *  nofurylike   Dec-04-05 12:35 AM   #193 
                 - *  Sapphire Blue   Dec-04-05 02:03 AM   #200 
  - DEBATE: Race plays a role in death penalty implementation. BAN the DP!  nofurylike   Dec-04-05 11:37 AM   #208 
  - Locking  Opposite Reaction   Dec-04-05 11:54 AM   #209 
 

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