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Reply #26: LBJ tried to make ours a better country for ALL Americans. [View All]

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Octafish Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-02-05 11:38 AM
Response to Reply #5
26. LBJ tried to make ours a better country for ALL Americans.
Certainly, LBJ gave a damn about the United States. During the Cuban Missile Crisis, LBJ offered key advice that helped defuse the situation:

The Cuban Missile Crisis, October 18-29, 1962


JFK reopens the discussion of trading the missiles in Turkey. McNamara insists that the case should be made that this is not so much a trade as a way of preventing a Soviet military attack on a NATO member nation. (52:58)

McNamara says that if reconnaissance flights are fired upon tomorrow that means air strikes and "almost certainly an invasion." (59:03)

(Apparently JFK is no longer in the room at this point in the discussion.)

Vice President Lyndon Johnson responds: "If you're willing to give up your missiles in Turkey - why don't you...make the trade there and save all the invasion, lives and everything else?" (1:02:10)

George Ball also argues for making the trade openly with the USSR to avoid "enormous casualties and a great, great risk of escalation." (1:03:35)

McNamara: "Max is going back to work out the surveillance plan for tomorrow with the Chiefs as to how much cover we need and so on. We're just going to get shot up sure as hell. There's no question about it. We're going to have to go in and shoot." (1:07:15)

McCone responds: "I'd take these Turkish things out right now" but also tell Khrushchev firmly that if they fire at our planes again "in we come." (1:08:22)

McNamara denounces Khrushchev's Oct 26 letter: "Hell, that's no offer. There's not a damned thing in it that's an offer. You read that message carefully. He didn't propose to take the missiles out....It's twelve pages of fluff." (1:09:30)

LBJ questions the value of the surveillance flights: "I've been afraid of these damned flyers ever since they mentioned them...some crazy Russian captain...might just pull a trigger. Looks like we 're playing Fourth of July over there. I'm scared of that and I don't see what you get for that photograph. ... Psychologically you scare them. Well hell, its like the fellow always telling me in Congress, 'Go on and put the monkey on his back.' Every time I tried to put a monkey on somebody's else's back, I got one. If you're going to try to psychologically scare're liable to get your bottom shot at." (1:33:00)


My point is, later, during the Gulf of Tonkin episode, Johnson DID go with the advice of McNamara, Bundy and Rusk.

The record shows JFK wasn't going to.
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  -JFK Would NEVER Have Fallen for Phony INTEL! Octafish  Dec-02-05 09:34 AM   #0 
  - Will All Due Respect, I Am Not Entirely Sure One Way Or Other  cryingshame   Dec-02-05 09:36 AM   #1 
  - I bet there was plenty of bad intel  Yupster   Dec-02-05 09:43 AM   #6 
  - JK Galbraith: In 63, JFK ordered a complete withdrawal.  Octafish   Dec-02-05 09:59 AM   #12 
  - I love your posts  Swamp Rat   Dec-02-05 09:37 AM   #2 
  - Plan for Victory  G_j   Dec-02-05 09:43 AM   #7 
  - Thanks. It might as well be real.  Swamp Rat   Dec-02-05 09:47 AM   #9 
  - Your Pictures are worth a Million Words.  Octafish   Dec-02-05 10:02 AM   #13 
  - Bush and Cheney got the Intel they wanted  iconoclastNYC   Dec-02-05 09:38 AM   #3 
  - Excellent point. Smirk and Sneer made sure they got the Intel they wanted.  Octafish   Dec-02-05 10:06 AM   #14 
  - JFK would never have deserted his Sailors either  BOSSHOG   Dec-02-05 09:40 AM   #4 
  - Thank you, Chief!  Octafish   Dec-02-05 10:16 AM   #19 
  - Saint JFK and Evil old LBJ  WI_DEM   Dec-02-05 09:41 AM   #5 
  - Such a great post and an interesting thread. There's been a segment  cryingshame   Dec-02-05 09:46 AM   #8 
  - Spot ON  ZombyWoof   Dec-02-05 09:47 AM   #10 
  - You raise some valid points.  H2O Man   Dec-02-05 10:08 AM   #16 
  - Evidence Says Differently  erpowers   Dec-02-05 10:18 AM   #20 
  - It doesn't appear that you bothered to read NSAM 263 included....  Media_Lies_Daily   Dec-02-05 10:09 AM   #17 
  - Again I say  WI_DEM   Dec-02-05 10:19 AM   #21 
     - You're basing your remarks on the rightwing propaganda produced....  Media_Lies_Daily   Dec-02-05 10:41 AM   #24 
  - Maybe Not  erpowers   Dec-02-05 10:21 AM   #22 
  - LBJ tried to make ours a better country for ALL Americans.  Octafish   Dec-02-05 11:38 AM   #26 
  - I'm right in the middle of James Bamford's "Body of Secrets"  Dr.Phool   Dec-02-05 09:48 AM   #11 
  - Deleted message  Name removed   Dec-02-05 03:31 PM   #27 
  - Pentagon Proposed Pretexts for Cuba Invasion in 1962  Octafish   Dec-04-05 11:18 AM   #41 
  - Somewhat Thinking No  erpowers   Dec-02-05 10:07 AM   #15 
  - Thanks, erpowers. Kennedy ordered J.K. Galbraith to talk to North Vietnam.  Octafish   Dec-02-05 03:45 PM   #29 
  - Well, there was that whole 'Bay of Pigs' thing  TayTay   Dec-02-05 10:10 AM   #18 
  - If you take a look at the people that planned the Bay of Pigs,....  Media_Lies_Daily   Dec-02-05 10:28 AM   #23 
     - Vietnam documents similar to Iraq today  Octafish   Dec-02-05 05:05 PM   #31 
  - Bush did not "fall" for anything  mnmoderatedem   Dec-02-05 10:57 AM   #25 
  - Thanks for pointing that out.  Octafish   Dec-02-05 03:35 PM   #28 
  - Vietnam Intelligence 'deliberately skewed'  Octafish   Dec-02-05 05:01 PM   #30 
     - yes, I just read this  G_j   Dec-02-05 05:53 PM   #32 
     - JFK was killed by War Party.  Octafish   Dec-02-05 09:49 PM   #35 
     - A "secret study" ? Somebody want to tell me what a "secret study" is?  shance   Dec-02-05 06:02 PM   #33 
        - "Secret study" means it was kept from the public. That's "Undemocratic."  Octafish   Dec-02-05 08:10 PM   #34 
  - interesting topic  coeur_de_lion   Dec-03-05 03:38 AM   #36 
  - Thanks for sharing, coeur_de_lion. Your dad is a good man.  Octafish   Dec-03-05 12:29 PM   #37 
     - No no, thank YOU. It was a very interesting post, and I enjoyed  coeur_de_lion   Dec-03-05 06:36 PM   #39 
  - Gotta read "The Ultimate Sacrifice"  Mika   Dec-03-05 01:29 PM   #38 
  - bush** didn't fall for phony intel, he ordered it up! nt  Blue State Native   Dec-03-05 06:41 PM   #40 

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