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Reply #140: A few words from a man long gone: [View All]

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rumpel Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-08-05 11:16 PM
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140. A few words from a man long gone:
I post it here as I believe it is public domain.


Source: "Four Wagons West,"
by Roberta Frye Watt, Binsford & Mort, Portland Ore., 1934.
Originally published in the Seattle Sunday Star, Oct. 29 1887.
The text was produced by one "Dr." Smith, an early settler in Seattle, who took notes as Seattle spoke in the Suquamish dialect of central Puget sound Salish (Lushootseed), and created this text in English from those notes. Smith insisted that his version "contained none of the grace and elegance of the original" The last two sentences of the text here given have been considered for many years to have been part of the original, but are now known to have been added by an early 20th C. historian and ethnographic writer, A. C. Ballard.

There are many versions and excerpts from this text, including a wholly fraudulent version mentioning buffalo and the interconnectedness of all life which was written by a Hollywood screenwriter in the late 70's and which has gained wide currency. The bogus version has been quoted by individuals as prominent and diverse as former U.S. President Bush and Joseph Campbell.

At the time this speech was made it was commonly believed by whites and as well by many Indians that Native americas would inevitalby become extinct.

The "Alternate Statement" of Chief Seattle ...

Yonder sky that has wept tears of compassion upon my people for centuries untold, and which to us appears changeless and eternal, may change. Today is fair. Tomorrow it may be overcast with clouds.
My words are like the stars that never change. Whatever Seattle says, the great chief at Washington can rely upon with as much certainty as he can upon the return of the sun or the seasons.

The white chief says that Big Chief at Washington sends us greetings of friendship and goodwill. This is kind of him for we know he has little need of our friendship in return. His people are many. They are like the grass that covers vast prairies. My people are few. They resemble the scattering trees of a storm-swept plain. The great, and I presume -- good, White Chief sends us word that he wishes to buy our land but is willing to allow us enough to live comfortably. This indeed appears just, even generous, for the Red Man no longer has rights that he need respect, and the offer may be wise, also, as we are no longer in need of an extensive country.

There was a time when our people covered the land as the waves of a wind- ruffled sea cover its shell-paved floor, but that time long since passed away with the greatness of tribes that are now but a mournful memory. I will not dwell on, nor mourn over, our untimely decay, nor reproach my paleface brothers with hastening it, as we too may have been somewhat to blame.

Youth is impulsive. When our young men grow angry at some real or imaginary wrong, and disfigure their faces with black paint, it denotes that their hearts are black, and that they are often cruel and relentless, and our old men and old women are unable to restrain them. Thus it has ever been. Thus it was when the white man began to push our forefathers ever westward. But let us hope that the hostilities between us may never return. We would have everything to lose and nothing to gain. Revenge by young men is considered gain, even at the cost of their own lives, but old men who stay at home in times of war, and mothers who have sons to lose, know better.

Our good father in Washington--for I presume he is now our father as well as yours, since King George has moved his boundaries further north--our great and good father, I say, sends us word that if we do as he desires he will protect us. His brave warriors will be to us a bristling wall of strength, and his wonderful ships of war will fill our harbors, so that our ancient enemies far to the northward -- the Haidas and Tsimshians, will cease to frighten our women, children, and old men. He in reality he will be our father and we his children.

But can that ever be? Your God is not our God! Your God loves your people and hates mine! He folds his strong protecting arms lovingly about the paleface and leads him by the hand as a father leads an infant son. But, He has forsaken His Red children, if they really are His. Our God, the Great Spirit, seems also to have forsaken us. Your God makes your people wax stronger every day. Soon they will fill all the land.

Our people are ebbing away like a rapidly receding tide that will never return. The white man's God cannot love our people or He would protect them. They seem to be orphans who can look nowhere for help. How then can we be brothers? How can your God become our God and renew our prosperity and awaken in us dreams of returning greatness? If we have a common Heavenly Father He must be partial, for He came to His paleface children.

We never saw Him. He gave you laws but had no word for His red children whose teeming multitudes once filled this vast continent as stars fill the firmament. No; we are two distinct races with separate origins and separate destinies. There is little in common between us.

To us the ashes of our ancestors are sacred and their resting place is hallowed ground. You wander far from the graves of your ancestors and seemingly without regret. Your religion was written upon tablets of stone by the iron finger of your God so that you could not forget.

The Red Man could never comprehend or remember it. Our religion is the traditions of our ancestors -- the dreams of our old men, given them in solemn hours of the night by the Great Spirit; and the visions of our sachems, and is written in the hearts of our people.

Your dead cease to love you and the land of their nativity as soon as they pass the portals of the tomb and wander away beyond the stars. They are soon forgotten and never return.

Our dead never forget this beautiful world that gave them being. They still love its verdant valleys, its murmuring rivers, its magnificent mountains, sequestered vales and verdant lined lakes and bays, and ever yearn in tender fond affection over the lonely hearted living, and often return from the happy hunting ground to visit, guide, console, and comfort them.

Day and night cannot dwell together. The Red Man has ever fled the approach of the White Man, as the morning mist flees before the morning sun. However, your proposition seems fair and I think that my people will accept it and will retire to the reservation you offer them. Then we will dwell apart in peace, for the words of the Great White Chief seem to be the words of nature speaking to my people out of dense darkness.

It matters little where we pass the remnant of our days. They will not be many. The Indian's night promises to be dark. Not a single star of hope hovers above his horizon. Sad-voiced winds moan in the distance. Grim fate seems to be on the Red Man's trail, and wherever he will hear the approaching footsteps of his fell destroyer and prepare stolidly to meet his doom, as does the wounded doe that hears the approaching footsteps of the hunter.

A few more moons, a few more winters, and not one of the descendants of the mighty hosts that once moved over this broad land or lived in happy homes, protected by the Great Spirit, will remain to mourn over the graves of a people once more powerful and hopeful than yours.

But why should I mourn at the untimely fate of my people? Tribe follows tribe, and nation follows nation, like the waves of the sea. It is the order of nature, and regret is useless. Your time of decay may be distant, but it will surely come, for even the White Man whose God walked and talked with him as friend to friend, cannot be exempt from the common destiny. We may be brothers after all. We will see.

We will ponder your proposition and when we decide we will let you know. But should we accept it, I here and now make this condition that we will not be denied the privilege without molestation of visiting at any time the tombs of our ancestors, friends, and children. Every part of this soil is sacred in the estimation of my people. Every hillside, every valley, every plain and grove, has been hallowed by some sad or happy event in days long vanished.

Even the rocks, which seem to be dumb and dead as the swelter in the sun along the silent shore, thrill with memories of stirring events connected with the lives of my people, and the very dust upon which you now stand responds more lovingly to their footsteps than yours, because it is rich with the blood of our ancestors, and our bare feet are conscious of the sympathetic touch. Our departed braves, fond mothers, glad, happy hearted maidens, and even the little children who lived here and rejoiced here for a brief season, will love these somber solitudes and at eventide they greet shadowy returning spirits.

And when the last Red Man shall have perished, and the memory of my tribe shall have become a myth among the White Men, these shores will swarm with the invisible dead of my tribe, and when your children's children think themselves alone in the field, the store, the shop, upon the highway, or in the silence of the pathless woods, they will not be alone. In all the earth there is no place dedicated to solitude. At night when the streets of your cities and villages are silent and you think them deserted, they will throng with the returning hosts that once filled them and still love this beautiful land. The White Man will never be alone.

Let him be just and deal kindly with my people, for the dead are not powerless.
Dead, did I say? - There is no death, only a change of worlds.

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  -Should landowners have to pay a tax to the Indian tribe that lived there? bob_weaver  Nov-07-05 11:02 AM   #0 
  - No, what I think they ought to do is GIVE IT BACK  mtnester   Nov-07-05 11:03 AM   #1 
  - I disagree  sui generis   Nov-07-05 11:11 AM   #5 
  - Have you given back yours?  Wcross   Nov-07-05 12:25 PM   #27 
  - Better know my heritage better before you go there  mtnester   Nov-07-05 12:50 PM   #30 
     - Why is that?  Wcross   Nov-07-05 01:23 PM   #32 
     - Your opinion is one thing, and yours to have  mtnester   Nov-07-05 03:14 PM   #48 
        - Do you mean "throw" something at you?  Wcross   Nov-07-05 04:39 PM   #54 
           - Again, snark away  mtnester   Nov-07-05 04:41 PM   #55 
           - What's yer point, Wcross, other than to stir up crap?  NVMojo   Nov-07-05 07:08 PM   #66 
              - Yes, I assume that is what is going on...I have my ways of handling that  mtnester   Nov-07-05 07:25 PM   #69 
              - You assume what is going on? Clue me in.  Wcross   Nov-07-05 07:59 PM   #73 
              - I think my point is clear.  Wcross   Nov-08-05 07:05 PM   #120 
     - Why  Toots   Nov-08-05 08:29 AM   #88 
  - OK, who ya gonna give it to?  TX-RAT   Nov-07-05 01:24 PM   #33 
  - I don't is simply wishful thinking on my part  mtnester   Nov-07-05 03:16 PM   #49 
     - we're not "caretakers", we are residents.  MarsThe Cat   Nov-07-05 11:41 PM   #74 
  - give it back?  MarsThe Cat   Nov-07-05 06:05 PM   #62 
  - If you read my post 49 DIRECTLY above you at this point  mtnester   Nov-07-05 07:24 PM   #68 
  - People can BUY my land, no problem. If the price is right.  mtpWriter   Nov-07-05 11:43 PM   #75 
  - there are a lot of tribes completely wiped out  barb162   Nov-08-05 10:12 PM   #135 
  - sure, if they reimburse white europeans for the twin gifts  afdip   Nov-07-05 11:05 AM   #2 
  - i think,  petersond   Nov-07-05 02:45 PM   #40 
     - okay, we'll call it even . . . . especially if you consider the caribe's  afdip   Nov-07-05 03:20 PM   #50 
        - we gave out Syphillis?...  petersond   Nov-07-05 03:28 PM   #52 
           - nope, the caribe's gave it to the crew on columbus' 1st voyage  afdip   Nov-07-05 04:00 PM   #53 
           - Deleted message  Name removed   Nov-08-05 07:47 AM   #84 
              - actually, it is more likely that pre-columbus-era bones in europe  afdip   Nov-08-05 08:59 AM   #90 
                 - evidence of syphilis was found in bones in greece.  xchrom   Nov-08-05 06:06 PM   #110 
                    - you're certainly welcome to your opinion, but most epidemiologists  afdip   Nov-09-05 09:25 AM   #146 
                       - check this out...  xchrom   Nov-09-05 09:31 AM   #147 
           - you are one sad poster ...with no knowledge of American history  NVMojo   Nov-07-05 07:10 PM   #67 
              - what? did i miss something?  petersond   Nov-08-05 12:54 AM   #78 
  - No, of course not.  Burning Water   Nov-07-05 11:05 AM   #3 
  - I had a knock down drag out with a repuke last week  liberal N proud   Nov-07-05 11:10 AM   #4 
  - So  Debau2005   Nov-07-05 11:33 AM   #8 
  - If it was a republican government? he would probably think it was  liberal N proud   Nov-07-05 11:45 AM   #13 
  - wait  pitohui   Nov-07-05 12:15 PM   #23 
  - perhaps you ought to read the history of the modern state of israel  niyad   Nov-07-05 12:18 PM   #24 
  - al-Nakba  manic expression   Nov-08-05 05:41 PM   #104 
  - i have to disagree-  MarsThe Cat   Nov-07-05 06:12 PM   #63 
     - :)  petersond   Nov-08-05 01:04 AM   #79 
        - I'd rather owe it to you for the rest of my life...  MarsThe Cat   Nov-08-05 02:38 AM   #81 
           - Yes, blood is hard to wash out...  petersond   Nov-08-05 02:12 PM   #91 
              - those treaties and $5.25 will gat you a cup of coffee at starbucks.  MarsThe Cat   Nov-08-05 05:30 PM   #103 
                 - Excuse me,  manic expression   Nov-08-05 05:53 PM   #106 
                 - the time frame being discussed WAS a "century or two" ago.  MarsThe Cat   Nov-09-05 07:34 AM   #145 
                    - Exactly  manic expression   Nov-09-05 07:58 PM   #173 
                       - and what exactly do you consider to be "the right thing" ?  MarsThe Cat   Nov-09-05 10:24 PM   #174 
                          - The right thing  manic expression   Nov-10-05 09:41 AM   #177 
                             - re: might makes right-  MarsThe Cat   Nov-10-05 01:12 PM   #180 
                                - So them  petersond   Nov-10-05 01:43 PM   #183 
                                   - after you look up the word "prejudge" in that new dictionary-  MarsThe Cat   Nov-10-05 01:58 PM   #184 
                                      - Okay i will type really slow also...:)  petersond   Nov-10-05 02:12 PM   #186 
                 - Deleted sub-thread  Name removed   Nov-08-05 09:16 PM   #128 
                 - Sorry, it was probably me....  petersond   Nov-10-05 10:20 PM   #187 
                 - handouts!?! bwahahahaha!  xchrom   Nov-09-05 09:34 AM   #148 
                    - not by me.  MarsThe Cat   Nov-09-05 05:15 PM   #170 
  - Actgually, there is NO SUCH THING as Native Americans.  Village Idiot   Nov-07-05 11:32 AM   #6 
  - Whites are genetically superior to Native Americans? What? And what does  GreenPartyVoter   Nov-07-05 11:45 AM   #12 
  - Actually, he's talking (badly) about genetic resources: plants, animals...  JHB   Nov-07-05 12:10 PM   #19 
     - Ok.. Thanks for the clarification. That's a rather different point than  GreenPartyVoter   Nov-07-05 12:14 PM   #22 
     - Yeah but there was "intelligent design" behind all that stuff  davepc   Nov-07-05 04:49 PM   #56 
        - no, it's much more darwinistic  northzax   Nov-10-05 01:15 PM   #181 
  - Jared Diamond has a very myopic view of history  400Years   Nov-07-05 12:20 PM   #25 
  - genetically superior?...  petersond   Nov-07-05 02:47 PM   #41 
  - Bad choice of words-  MarsThe Cat   Nov-10-05 08:37 AM   #175 
     - Yeah, i saw that....  petersond   Nov-10-05 10:28 PM   #188 
  - I commend you on choosing a username that describes you SO well  entanglement   Nov-08-05 02:17 AM   #80 
  - What an apt name  manic expression   Nov-08-05 06:00 PM   #109 
  - SUPERIOR?!?!?  VPStoltz   Nov-08-05 11:52 PM   #142 
  - If people have been around for 3 million years  Yupster   Nov-10-05 10:39 PM   #190 
  - they may have been here earlier, but did they take land from anyone?  lady of texas   Nov-11-05 12:38 PM   #194 
  - the land that america sits on -- would otherwise be their  xchrom   Nov-07-05 11:32 AM   #7 
  - Stupid Idea  dbackjon   Nov-07-05 11:35 AM   #9 
  - Very true  GreenPartyVoter   Nov-07-05 11:47 AM   #14 
  - i think first nations people would take a radically different view  xchrom   Nov-07-05 11:59 AM   #15 
  - Not me. I'm Irish.  Touchdown   Nov-07-05 12:32 PM   #28 
  - even the poorest irish had it better than first nations people.  xchrom   Nov-08-05 07:16 AM   #82 
     - My heart bleeds.  Touchdown   Nov-08-05 08:56 AM   #89 
        - the reneged treaties are still there -- for every one to see.  xchrom   Nov-08-05 06:15 PM   #116 
        - I didn't steal anything.  Touchdown   Nov-08-05 09:42 PM   #133 
           - if your going to spout republican/libertarian party line  xchrom   Nov-09-05 09:44 AM   #149 
              - Oh' I get it. Anybody who disputes you is a Repug.  Touchdown   Nov-09-05 10:34 AM   #151 
                 - Okay brother....  petersond   Nov-09-05 02:37 PM   #156 
                 - You're talking to a gay man here.  Touchdown   Nov-09-05 03:02 PM   #159 
                    - a gay man!!! Lets unite our powers!  petersond   Nov-09-05 03:57 PM   #162 
                    - Another little thing....  petersond   Nov-11-05 11:59 AM   #192 
                 - your government created the responsibility  xchrom   Nov-09-05 02:49 PM   #158 
                    - Answer my question.  Touchdown   Nov-09-05 03:09 PM   #160 
                       - In short, its all ready that way....  petersond   Nov-09-05 04:08 PM   #163 
                       - Actually I wanted x-chrom to answer that.  Touchdown   Nov-09-05 04:31 PM   #166 
                          - Oh...sorry...  petersond   Nov-09-05 04:58 PM   #169 
                       - oh please -- nobody is ''long dead'' in this case  xchrom   Nov-09-05 06:32 PM   #172 
                          - Nope. Not an answer.  Touchdown   Nov-10-05 09:35 AM   #176 
                             - you are laughable --  xchrom   Nov-10-05 10:31 AM   #178 
                                - And you're not answering the question.  Touchdown   Nov-10-05 10:35 AM   #179 
        - Some Irish call it Celtic descent, to separate themselves from the Euros!  MADem   Nov-09-05 04:25 PM   #164 
           - Sounds good. I'll use that.  Touchdown   Nov-09-05 04:51 PM   #168 
  - "We didn't obliterate them as a people"...  petersond   Nov-07-05 02:59 PM   #44 
  - I've got news for you...  youthere   Nov-07-05 05:55 PM   #61 
     - Look at the ground you are standing on  manic expression   Nov-08-05 06:09 PM   #112 
  - Yes, very true.  petersond   Nov-07-05 02:33 PM   #37 
  - Wow  manic expression   Nov-08-05 06:07 PM   #111 
  - But then, shouldn't that tribe pay it to the other tribe that they kicked.  Silverhair   Nov-07-05 11:42 AM   #10 
  - To take it further, let's incarcerate all the...  Touchdown   Nov-07-05 12:36 PM   #29 
  - yes, damn them!  petersond   Nov-07-05 02:53 PM   #43 
  - How far do you go back? You go back legally to the UN Charter  Mairead   Nov-07-05 03:02 PM   #45 
  - No. n/t  Walt Starr   Nov-07-05 11:43 AM   #11 
  - They are getting it back  Semi_subversive   Nov-07-05 12:00 PM   #16 
  - Silly idea.  igil   Nov-07-05 12:09 PM   #17 
  - Shall will hold children responsible for the crimes of their parents?  izzybeans   Nov-07-05 12:10 PM   #18 
  - open your mind... we do EXACTLY that  Bluerthanblue   Nov-08-05 11:38 PM   #141 
  - no be a man & go over to the casino & pay your dues in person!  pitohui   Nov-07-05 12:13 PM   #20 
  - The easy answer  H2O Man   Nov-07-05 12:14 PM   #21 
  - There it is.  ismnotwasm   Nov-07-05 07:43 PM   #72 
  - Not necessarily  Loonman   Nov-07-05 12:21 PM   #26 
  - Really stupid, bad idea  slackmaster   Nov-07-05 12:53 PM   #31 
  - I'm in favor of some kind of reparation to Native and African  Cleita   Nov-07-05 01:30 PM   #34 
  - Might i suggest you pay whomever, whatever you think is fare.  TX-RAT   Nov-07-05 01:57 PM   #35 
  - Fair, not fare  RebelOne   Nov-07-05 07:25 PM   #70 
  - "we"? I didn't do anything to anybody.  Wcross   Nov-07-05 02:07 PM   #36 
  - No you didn't do anything...  petersond   Nov-07-05 02:41 PM   #38 
  - damn it...  petersond   Nov-09-05 02:49 PM   #157 
  - You as an individual didn't, but your nation did and  Cleita   Nov-07-05 05:05 PM   #59 
  - My great grandmother was Cherokee.  mtpWriter   Nov-07-05 11:46 PM   #76 
     - Sensitivity has nothing to do with.  Cleita   Nov-08-05 02:51 PM   #93 
     - You keep using terms like  mtpWriter   Nov-08-05 03:24 PM   #94 
        - Yes, but your nation did, and as much as you didn't do this  Cleita   Nov-08-05 03:34 PM   #97 
        - Not clear on this statement...  mtpWriter   Nov-08-05 04:30 PM   #100 
           - True, but most people object to this because  Cleita   Nov-08-05 04:43 PM   #101 
              - This is never going to happen.  hiaasenrocks   Nov-08-05 05:59 PM   #107 
                 - This is not to feel good.  Cleita   Nov-08-05 06:12 PM   #115 
                    - Again, it will never happen, but let me ask....  hiaasenrocks   Nov-08-05 07:30 PM   #121 
                       - On another post I recommended that the money be put  Cleita   Nov-08-05 08:19 PM   #125 
                          - Well, here's a start.  hiaasenrocks   Nov-08-05 09:21 PM   #129 
                             - That's a good website and I hope it prospers.  Cleita   Nov-08-05 09:29 PM   #130 
                                - I see.  hiaasenrocks   Nov-08-05 09:32 PM   #131 
                                   - What I see is that you want people to beg for charity  Cleita   Nov-08-05 11:08 PM   #139 
                                      - Oh, well. That was interesting for a while.  hiaasenrocks   Nov-09-05 12:01 AM   #143 
                                         - Quite honestly I was going to give you an longer and  Cleita   Nov-09-05 12:15 AM   #144 
        - Wow, you know at LEAST 20 whole Indian people . . .  petersond   Nov-08-05 08:58 PM   #127 
     - Accountability  sandnsea   Nov-08-05 05:52 PM   #105 
        - That's kind of my point.  Cleita   Nov-08-05 07:30 PM   #122 
        - I agree completely  sandnsea   Nov-08-05 08:55 PM   #126 
        - Yes, you are right.  petersond   Nov-08-05 10:49 PM   #136 
  - No, not unless  petersond   Nov-07-05 02:43 PM   #39 
  - Course not...  SteppingRazor   Nov-07-05 02:49 PM   #42 
  - It doesn't end it's the stuff the clash of civilizations is made of  HereSince1628   Nov-07-05 03:05 PM   #46 
  - no  TK421   Nov-07-05 03:06 PM   #47 
  - And which Indian tribe would that be  MadHound   Nov-07-05 03:22 PM   #51 
  - Sure, bring him by my office and we'll work it out.  Fescue4u   Nov-07-05 05:00 PM   #57 
  - Should that tribe pay taxes to the tribe before them?  Fight_n_back   Nov-07-05 05:01 PM   #58 
  - No. I didn't steal anything.  MrSlayer   Nov-07-05 05:45 PM   #60 
  - Do you live in America?  manic expression   Nov-08-05 06:20 PM   #117 
     - Is there a map we can check? n/t  hiaasenrocks   Nov-08-05 07:40 PM   #124 
  - of course not- and nothing was "stolen".  MarsThe Cat   Nov-07-05 06:15 PM   #64 
  - well, let's put it this way: if we were talking about paying white people  noiretblu   Nov-07-05 06:39 PM   #65 
  - I will be for this when...  Touchdown   Nov-08-05 10:05 PM   #134 
     - oh please  noiretblu   Nov-09-05 10:52 AM   #152 
        - So this really isn't a principle for you then?  Touchdown   Nov-09-05 11:11 AM   #153 
           - the principle applies in america because i am american  noiretblu   Nov-09-05 04:49 PM   #167 
  - We should ask the surviving native americans what's fair  killbotfactory   Nov-07-05 07:30 PM   #71 
  - Zero. Thanks for asking ;)  mtpWriter   Nov-07-05 11:49 PM   #77 
  - I don't ask for much...  petersond   Nov-08-05 02:38 PM   #92 
  - for those of you who claim your forbears got here late  xchrom   Nov-08-05 07:33 AM   #83 
  - Of course we took land from the Native Americans...  Squatch   Nov-08-05 07:56 AM   #85 
  - and treaties held no part in this ''history"?  xchrom   Nov-08-05 08:05 AM   #86 
  - So exactly who had it first?, and how long ago?  TX-RAT   Nov-08-05 03:32 PM   #96 
  - Salamanca, NY  baldguy   Nov-08-05 08:27 AM   #87 
  - Must be a New York state thing.  ieoeja   Nov-08-05 04:11 PM   #99 
  - Most of them are dead.  porphyrian   Nov-08-05 03:30 PM   #95 
  - I think most of us already do pay taxes  OnionPatch   Nov-08-05 04:05 PM   #98 
  - Absolutely NOT.  Beelzebud   Nov-08-05 04:44 PM   #102 
  - No. It will not (and should not) ever happen. n/t  hiaasenrocks   Nov-08-05 06:00 PM   #108 
  - Yes, and Mexicans should pay tribute to the Maya and Aztecs.  geek tragedy   Nov-08-05 06:11 PM   #113 
  - Apples and oranges, though  jaredh   Nov-09-05 01:07 PM   #154 
     - Okay. How about Spain paying reparations to the Caliphate  geek tragedy   Nov-09-05 01:48 PM   #155 
        - Better comparison  jaredh   Nov-09-05 04:25 PM   #165 
  - I don't know, what tribes did the native americans steal it from?  Jose Diablo   Nov-08-05 06:11 PM   #114 
  - Hell, no!  LoveOHBlues   Nov-08-05 06:33 PM   #118 
  - Corporations should. And the government.  shance   Nov-08-05 06:41 PM   #119 
  - Corporations do give to Indian charities.  hiaasenrocks   Nov-08-05 07:38 PM   #123 
     - Pretty soon, Walmart will be on that list...  petersond   Nov-08-05 11:00 PM   #137 
  - The land question  dcfirefighter   Nov-08-05 09:39 PM   #132 
  - Only if the Romans and Normans pay me.  brokensymmetry   Nov-08-05 11:08 PM   #138 
  - ok, send bill.  kineneb   Nov-10-05 10:40 PM   #191 
  - A few words from a man long gone:  rumpel   Nov-08-05 11:16 PM   #140 
  - Good article, i love it....  petersond   Nov-09-05 03:22 PM   #161 
     - Damn it..  petersond   Nov-09-05 06:16 PM   #171 
  - No  shawn703   Nov-09-05 10:31 AM   #150 
  - basically all land was stolen from somebody  northzax   Nov-10-05 01:16 PM   #182 
  - I was just thinking the same thing. n/t  Fox Mulder   Nov-10-05 02:11 PM   #185 
  - Sure. As long as I am then allowed to stop paying $ to the US gov.  kineneb   Nov-10-05 10:36 PM   #189 
  - While I am of Native American descent...  Dob Bole   Nov-11-05 12:33 PM   #193 

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