You are viewing an obsolete version of the DU website which is no longer supported by the Administrators. Visit The New DU.
Democratic Underground Latest Greatest Lobby Journals Search Options Help Login
Google

Reply #148: so far [View All]

Printer-friendly format Printer-friendly format
Printer-friendly format Email this thread to a friend
Printer-friendly format Bookmark this thread
This topic is archived.
Home » Discuss » Archives » General Discussion (Through 2005) Donate to DU
Lexingtonian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-04-05 01:53 PM
Response to Reply #139
148. so far
Edited on Fri Nov-04-05 01:55 PM by Lexingtonian
I'm not convinced that much has taken place that is any worse than what was going on in the 1960 election. Though that is a sadly low bar.

My own analysis is that the structural root of the corruption lies in the many ex-felon/parolee/probationer disenfranchisement laws. It's tragic what these open the door to in preventing national standards and selective screwing with registrations and obstructing elegibility and turnout and actual ability to cast the ballot.

I can't get straight answers why there is no significant widespread effort by higher level Democrats to achieve their rollback in whatever increments- Democrats don't benefit from these laws anywhere I know of but Republicans do so and greatly, the 'soft on crime' and criminal-coddling angle to it is an excuse rather than a viable explanation in the polling evidence. There's no compelling excuse for such laws still existing in New Jersey or Washington State I can see and less excuse than imagined for them existing in New York State or California or Maryland and Delaware. In a lot of Republican-run places it's admitted that these laws have no meaningful foundation or purpose ethically and the real number of votes they suppress are fairly small (80-90% of formerly incarcerated people in the states where they are permitted to vote never actually do), though those votes tend very much to go to Democrats.

I don't know how many more Florida recounts and Washington recounts are necessary or how many tiltings of the table as in Ohio and military balloting are going to be enabled until there's action taken on the problem laws. Problem ballots and technical musings about poor quality manipulable machinery seem much more manageable issues, and a lot more fun, but the rot simply goes far deeper.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
  -A Discussion with Mark Crispin Miller Skinner  Nov-03-05 10:02 AM   #0 
  - The first question is an easy one.  Skinner   Nov-03-05 10:03 AM   #1 
  - Why I wrote Fooled Again  Mark_Crispin_Miller   Nov-03-05 10:23 AM   #22 
     - I've often thought the lack of a MANDATE is the reason why the admin  nashville_brook   Nov-03-05 11:07 AM   #60 
     - .  occuserpens   Nov-05-05 01:54 PM   #157 
  - My question for Miller:Do you think the Sec of State races being the focus  blm   Nov-03-05 10:04 AM   #2 
  - Hi Mark!  Bruce McAuley   Nov-03-05 10:08 AM   #3 
  - Liberalism  Mark_Crispin_Miller   Nov-03-05 10:32 AM   #30 
     - We're Progressive. Progressive times call for Progressive values.  ClassWarrior   Nov-03-05 10:33 AM   #31 
     - Makes sense - Most people I know that are Liberal  Selteri   Nov-03-05 01:02 PM   #88 
  - How susceptible to the "first story out there" is MSM?  underpants   Nov-03-05 10:08 AM   #4 
  - I'd like to add to this question too, if I may:  jane_pippin   Nov-03-05 10:45 AM   #40 
  - Hi  Tiggeroshii   Nov-03-05 01:39 PM   #96 
     - Oh, no worries and no relation. It's not my real name.  jane_pippin   Nov-03-05 01:53 PM   #99 
        - Haha! =)  Tiggeroshii   Nov-03-05 02:08 PM   #102 
  - The right has the propaganda thing down cold.  Mark_Crispin_Miller   Nov-03-05 03:36 PM   #108 
  - What is the first thing we CAN/should do to secure our voting system?  mzmolly   Nov-03-05 10:08 AM   #5 
  - First steps  Mark_Crispin_Miller   Nov-03-05 10:39 AM   #35 
     - Thank you.  mzmolly   Nov-03-05 10:52 AM   #46 
     - What is your opinion on Oregon's vote by mail system?  helderheid   Nov-03-05 10:55 AM   #49 
     - What about scanning machines?  Ladyhawk   Nov-04-05 02:19 PM   #150 
  - Thanks, Skinner! I'd like to ask Mark, was there a moment,  sfexpat2000   Nov-03-05 10:09 AM   #6 
  - That moment  Mark_Crispin_Miller   Nov-03-05 10:42 AM   #37 
     - Thank you so much for  zidzi   Nov-03-05 11:05 AM   #57 
     - The headline the next day in the Miami Herald said  Tuesday_Morning   Nov-03-05 07:16 PM   #127 
  - My Question & Link for Petition for Marc Maron  IndyOp   Nov-03-05 10:09 AM   #7 
  - Millions of pro-Kerry votes were junked/SAVE MORNING SEDITION!  Mark_Crispin_Miller   Nov-03-05 10:48 AM   #43 
     - Now I'm confused...  wrathofkahn   Nov-03-05 02:50 PM   #104 
        - Those who tried to register and/or vote and couldn't.  Mark_Crispin_Miller   Nov-03-05 03:38 PM   #109 
  - What are your suggestions for we the rank and file voters,  myrna minx   Nov-03-05 10:09 AM   #8 
  - Greetings Comrade...  kentuck   Nov-03-05 10:10 AM   #9 
  - Mr. Miller, I read "The Bush Dyslexicon" and loved it, BTW.  Arkana   Nov-03-05 10:10 AM   #10 
  - All private vendors should be outlawed.  Mark_Crispin_Miller   Nov-03-05 04:00 PM   #113 
     - I agree  Swamp Rat   Nov-04-05 01:37 AM   #134 
  - How do yot think the Right stold the election in 2004?  mom cat   Nov-03-05 10:12 AM   #11 
  - I second this question  Time for change   Nov-03-05 10:16 AM   #17 
  - I was going to ask this as well.  Midlodemocrat   Nov-03-05 10:59 AM   #52 
  - The book fully answers that question.  Mark_Crispin_Miller   Nov-03-05 03:40 PM   #110 
  - can you please speak to the importance of EXIT POLLS in our case  nashville_brook   Nov-03-05 10:13 AM   #12 
  - I'd like to reinforce this question  wryter2000   Nov-03-05 10:31 AM   #28 
  - here's one graph that might help  nashville_brook   Nov-03-05 10:50 AM   #44 
     - Thanks  wryter2000   Nov-03-05 11:00 AM   #53 
  - Excellent question. The discrepancy is truly disturbing.  mom cat   Nov-03-05 10:40 AM   #36 
  - The exit poll/"official" count discrepancies are certainly significant  Mark_Crispin_Miller   Nov-03-05 04:03 PM   #114 
     - lets see if we can get Steve Freeman to chat when his book comes out!  nashville_brook   Nov-03-05 04:59 PM   #122 
  - My question to Mark:  Just Me   Nov-03-05 10:13 AM   #13 
  - Paper trails per se are not enough.  Mark_Crispin_Miller   Nov-03-05 04:07 PM   #116 
  - Many Threads Into an Unmistakable Case  ignatzmouse   Nov-03-05 10:14 AM   #14 
  - Absentees and aborting votes  ignatzmouse   Nov-03-05 10:52 AM   #47 
     - I salute you, ignatzmouse.  Mark_Crispin_Miller   Nov-03-05 04:11 PM   #117 
        - Blackwell and beyond  ignatzmouse   Nov-03-05 06:31 PM   #125 
  - Thank you for coming online with us! Do you think that the states  cry baby   Nov-03-05 10:15 AM   #15 
  - good question! I live in Nevada and we are so screwed by the Sequoias  NVMojo   Nov-03-05 01:09 PM   #90 
  - The states will do what their residents demand they do.  Mark_Crispin_Miller   Nov-03-05 04:14 PM   #118 
  - I haven't read the book -- yet -- but from what I understand...  SteppingRazor   Nov-03-05 10:15 AM   #16 
  - I have far more than anecdotal evidence,  Mark_Crispin_Miller   Nov-03-05 04:19 PM   #120 
  - Why doesn't George Bush just come right out and say it? --->  Stephanie   Nov-03-05 10:18 AM   #18 
  - My question  EstimatedProphet   Nov-03-05 10:19 AM   #19 
  - Hi and wecome to DU !My first question is...  rasputin1952   Nov-03-05 10:21 AM   #20 
  - Mornin', Professor  Buns_of_Fire   Nov-03-05 10:21 AM   #21 
  - A few more questions. But first, thanks kindly for all you do.  Fly by night   Nov-03-05 10:24 AM   #23 
  - I second this question:  nashville_brook   Nov-03-05 10:42 AM   #38 
  - My answers  Mark_Crispin_Miller   Nov-03-05 10:58 AM   #50 
     - "The whole red state/blue state dichotomy is pure crapola"...  The_Mule   Nov-03-05 11:43 AM   #74 
  - My question is in regards to voter suppression.  Lone_Star_Dem   Nov-03-05 10:25 AM   #24 
  - re: 16 words in 03 SOTU - Will they cost */neoCONs any political capital?  bpilgrim   Nov-03-05 10:27 AM   #25 
  - Uhm, is he here yet?  mzmolly   Nov-03-05 10:28 AM   #26 
  - What do you think of the quest for so-called "objectivity" in reporting?  patcox2   Nov-03-05 10:29 AM   #27 
  - No. Not every story. Only stories that redound to the Democrats'  KCabotDullesMarxIII   Nov-03-05 11:16 AM   #65 
     - One Raving Loon vs. the entire community of credentialed experts.  patcox2   Nov-03-05 11:33 AM   #70 
  - Have you done any investigations into 9/11?  realFedUp   Nov-03-05 10:31 AM   #29 
  - Would you agree that making the truth known about Both Stolen Elections...  Senator   Nov-03-05 10:34 AM   #32 
  - Hi, thanks for chatting with us  cally   Nov-03-05 10:35 AM   #33 
  - Hello Mark! It's great that you're here! How do we get through mainstream  OmmmSweetOmmm   Nov-03-05 10:38 AM   #34 
  - Mr. Miller, thank you - I was in Franklin County Ohio as an Election  mtnester   Nov-03-05 10:43 AM   #39 
  - Where do you stand on trying to get the Canadian "Paper Ballots...  Junkdrawer   Nov-03-05 10:45 AM   #41 
  - When Will We Know?  DirtyDawg   Nov-03-05 10:48 AM   #42 
  - My two cents and the associated question...  meatloaf   Nov-03-05 10:50 AM   #45 
  - On "getting over it" and political elections  Land Shark   Nov-03-05 11:14 AM   #63 
  - Hi Mark! Thanks for chatting with us...  ms liberty   Nov-03-05 10:53 AM   #48 
  - These questions are terrific  Mark_Crispin_Miller   Nov-03-05 11:04 AM   #56 
     - I'll be sure to pester them!!  helderheid   Nov-03-05 11:05 AM   #59 
     - I'll pester 'em too  Tuesday_Morning   Nov-03-05 11:13 AM   #61 
        - Maybe contact Keith Olbermann too? (n/t)  ROH   Nov-03-05 11:35 AM   #73 
        - Contact Info for The Daily Show:  ms liberty   Nov-03-05 12:14 PM   #82 
           - I wrote and asked for a direct addy but, done. n/t  sfexpat2000   Nov-03-05 02:00 PM   #100 
           - Done!  redqueen   Nov-03-05 03:27 PM   #107 
           - Done! Great book by the way Mark!  go west young man   Nov-03-05 06:06 PM   #124 
     - We could start by sending them (and many others) this.  MelissaB   Nov-03-05 11:14 AM   #62 
     - There is a Big Story: If government acts as if it's not accountable  sfexpat2000   Nov-03-05 11:34 AM   #71 
  - MARK WILL BE BACK LATER TODAY  Stephanie   Nov-03-05 10:59 AM   #51 
  - Thanks, Stephanie.  Skinner   Nov-03-05 11:04 AM   #55 
  - Thanks! This is great!  sfexpat2000   Nov-03-05 11:16 AM   #66 
  - Thanks Stephanie!  mzmolly   Nov-03-05 11:25 AM   #67 
  - Is this problem isolated to a few States?  William769   Nov-03-05 11:01 AM   #54 
  - Many states  Mark_Crispin_Miller   Nov-03-05 01:17 PM   #92 
     - Thank you.  William769   Nov-03-05 01:25 PM   #93 
  - Professor Miller-- from an NYU TA writing down the street from you...  readmoreoften   Nov-03-05 11:05 AM   #58 
  - this is a great question:  nashville_brook   Nov-03-05 11:28 AM   #68 
  - There were tons of hip NYC bands in support of the WCW rally...  readmoreoften   Nov-03-05 11:55 AM   #79 
  - It isn't necessarily apathy.  Mark_Crispin_Miller   Nov-03-05 01:32 PM   #94 
     - The problem is the corporate stranglehold on television.  brindis_desala   Nov-03-05 02:41 PM   #103 
     - this is important  marions ghost   Nov-03-05 10:41 PM   #132 
  - I see a relationship between dwindling newspaper subscriptions  sfexpat2000   Nov-03-05 11:15 AM   #64 
  - Why hasn't at least ONE plotter come forth?  MrModerate   Nov-03-05 11:32 AM   #69 
  - How about"Dieb-Throat"? Clint Curtis? Sherole Eaton?  Fly by night   Nov-03-05 12:02 PM   #80 
     - OK, let me rephrase my question . . .  MrModerate   Nov-03-05 12:26 PM   #83 
        - The whole theft could have been accomplished by 25 people  Stevepol   Nov-03-05 04:03 PM   #115 
        - in a culture in which many people cheat  marions ghost   Nov-04-05 01:09 AM   #133 
  - Hello, Mr. Miller!  RandomKoolzip   Nov-03-05 11:34 AM   #72 
  - I am a Republican, and I am not fooled by these people...  Dr_eldritch   Nov-03-05 11:44 AM   #75 
  - Do you mean paternalism or something like?  sfexpat2000   Nov-03-05 12:50 PM   #86 
     - I was referring specifically to the tactic Bush used...  Dr_eldritch   Nov-03-05 07:52 PM   #128 
        - I hope Gore didn't give them this tool. But he may have, they  sfexpat2000   Nov-04-05 05:01 PM   #153 
  - How DO We Stop Them From Stealing The Next (And Future) Election/s?  mermaid   Nov-03-05 11:47 AM   #76 
  - We need at least three reforms to improve the integrity of the elections  Fly by night   Nov-03-05 04:26 PM   #121 
     - Agreed  marions ghost   Nov-03-05 09:58 PM   #130 
     - This is a very clear articulation of what is needed and  sfexpat2000   Nov-05-05 07:14 AM   #154 
  - Look forward to seeing you this Sunday in Capitola!  Fiendish Thingy   Nov-03-05 11:48 AM   #77 
  - A completely different type of question .....  mrsadm   Nov-03-05 11:54 AM   #78 
  - Hello, Mr. Miller...... and welcome  AmBlue   Nov-03-05 12:09 PM   #81 
  - Professor Miller  nadinbrzezinski   Nov-03-05 12:34 PM   #84 
  - My question  Capn Sunshine   Nov-03-05 12:47 PM   #85 
  - Doublethink  NJCher   Nov-03-05 12:51 PM   #87 
  - I live in Cleveland, Ohio -  DUBYASCREWEDUS   Nov-03-05 01:04 PM   #89 
  - I don't know about those issues.  Mark_Crispin_Miller   Nov-03-05 01:38 PM   #95 
  - Fitrakis' take on Issues 2,3,4,5 --  IndyOp   Nov-05-05 08:25 AM   #156 
  - In your book I'm sure you mention Ohio  Selteri   Nov-03-05 01:10 PM   #91 
  - I live in Georgia, the Diebold Beta test site for election stealing...,  Up2Late   Nov-03-05 01:41 PM   #97 
  - What do you think of parallel polls/parallel elections?  Carolab   Nov-03-05 01:50 PM   #98 
  - A ray of hope  Generator   Nov-03-05 02:02 PM   #101 
  - Happy anniversary of the stolen 2004 election, Mark!  AtLiberty   Nov-03-05 03:03 PM   #105 
  - Hi Mr. Miller! I have been approached to do a ballot initiative to turn my  helderheid   Nov-03-05 03:05 PM   #106 
  - Professor Miller,  redqueen   Nov-03-05 03:44 PM   #111 
  - I have a question for Prof. Miller!  EOO   Nov-03-05 03:58 PM   #112 
  - In Canada  LiberalLovinLug   Nov-03-05 04:14 PM   #119 
  - I've posted on Spain's system before, but here goes (again).  July   Nov-03-05 06:39 PM   #126 
  - questions about the impact of online activism  welshTerrier2   Nov-03-05 05:14 PM   #123 
  - MCM, Why do you favor Early Voting?  Bill Bored   Nov-03-05 09:02 PM   #129 
  - Looking at it another way  marions ghost   Nov-03-05 10:07 PM   #131 
  - Yes but it's just the sort of thing some "evil doer"  Bill Bored   Nov-04-05 02:17 AM   #136 
     - Early voting is a HUGE amount of convenience-- not a little bit  marions ghost   Nov-04-05 11:02 AM   #144 
        - Well then you're talking abut Early Voting REFORM -- not just Early Voting  Bill Bored   Nov-04-05 12:47 PM   #145 
           - I'm talking about election reform  marions ghost   Nov-04-05 02:15 PM   #149 
              - Yeah yeah; sure sure.  Bill Bored   Nov-05-05 02:55 PM   #159 
                 - the efforts to undermine the system on election day  marions ghost   Nov-06-05 08:34 AM   #160 
  - I don't think we should be using those machines.  Mark_Crispin_Miller   Nov-04-05 11:00 AM   #142 
     - Well either do I but the reality is, they are out there.  Bill Bored   Nov-04-05 12:56 PM   #147 
  - Hi Mark.... Alastair from Scoop NZ here....  althecat   Nov-04-05 02:11 AM   #135 
  - That negative vote thing seriously pisses me off  eridani   Nov-04-05 04:30 AM   #137 
  - Alastair, I'm honored by your praise  Mark_Crispin_Miller   Nov-04-05 10:57 AM   #140 
  - I don't know if you'll be returning to this thread, but . . .  OneBlueSky   Nov-04-05 08:31 AM   #138 
  - Kerry told me that he thinks the race was stolen  Mark_Crispin_Miller   Nov-04-05 10:50 AM   #139 
     - ya done good, sir! I watched you this morning!  helderheid   Nov-04-05 11:00 AM   #141 
     - What helderheid said!  Junkdrawer   Nov-04-05 11:01 AM   #143 
     - Did you record the conversation?  lonestarnot   Nov-04-05 12:50 PM   #146 
     - so far  Lexingtonian   Nov-04-05 01:53 PM   #148 
  - What do you think of old fashioned voting methods, a  Cleita   Nov-04-05 02:26 PM   #151 
  - Election Night 2004  pissedoffinct   Nov-04-05 02:28 PM   #152 
  - And then they trotted out the fake "values voters". And that  sfexpat2000   Nov-05-05 07:17 AM   #155 
  - Why support Kerry and claim that Elections-2004 were stolen?  occuserpens   Nov-05-05 01:56 PM   #158 
 

Home » Discuss » Archives » General Discussion (Through 2005) Donate to DU

Powered by DCForum+ Version 1.1 Copyright 1997-2002 DCScripts.com
Software has been extensively modified by the DU administrators


Important Notices: By participating on this discussion board, visitors agree to abide by the rules outlined on our Rules page. Messages posted on the Democratic Underground Discussion Forums are the opinions of the individuals who post them, and do not necessarily represent the opinions of Democratic Underground, LLC.

Home  |  Discussion Forums  |  Journals |  Store  |  Donate

About DU  |  Contact Us  |  Privacy Policy

Got a message for Democratic Underground? Click here to send us a message.

© 2001 - 2011 Democratic Underground, LLC