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Reply #84: I'm not excusing looting- I lived thru the 1977 NYC blackout [View All]

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Danmel Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-29-05 05:32 PM
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84. I'm not excusing looting- I lived thru the 1977 NYC blackout
When looting was rampant. I lived in Brooklyn at the time and I have to tell you entire communities were devastated for many many years following that orgy of looting. And that's what it was- an orgy of looting. It took a long long time for recovery. There were no stores to service the communities and no one wanted to go into those communities and it was very very bad.

It was truly disheartening, it really was. Whole neighborhoods were devastated. Merchants who had remained in inner city neighborhoods despite everyone urging them to leave were wiped out. My family had a friend who had a men's clothing store in East Flatbush. He remained there for years after the neighborhood changed from primarily Jewish and Italian to Caribbean. He didn't want to leave. In the looting following the black out, he was completely and totally wiped out. The hangers and light fixtures were stolen. He had nothing left. He did not reopen there and there was no store there for at least three years. What is the point of devastating your own community??????

Last year when there was the big blackout in the Northeast in the summer time too, there was virtually no looting in NYC. I 'm sure there are still needy people. But there was no orgy of looting. And the city was calm and safe and people helped each other. And the communities where there had been looting in 1977 were just as calm as the rest of the city. So what is it that precipitates that type of reaction?
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  -Looters undergroundpanther  Aug-29-05 03:31 PM   #0 
  - It's been less than 24 hours  China_cat   Aug-29-05 03:36 PM   #1 
  - OK, so you're living in housing projects...  phusion   Aug-29-05 03:42 PM   #2 
  - Maybe they need baby formula and bottled water  lebkuchen   Aug-29-05 03:48 PM   #6 
  - And if the hurricane hadn't hit  China_cat   Aug-29-05 03:50 PM   #8 
     - I'm just saying...  phusion   Aug-29-05 03:59 PM   #14 
     - Let me speak from personal experience: I grew up on the dole  Mairead   Aug-29-05 04:39 PM   #23 
        - Yep that's how it is  undergroundpanther   Aug-29-05 04:59 PM   #39 
        - Bloody hell. I've never had that exact experience (thank heaven!)  Mairead   Aug-29-05 05:03 PM   #49 
        - EXACTLY.  tjdee   Aug-29-05 05:02 PM   #46 
  - I've heard a similar argument from those who resent food stamps  lebkuchen   Aug-29-05 03:46 PM   #4 
  - Poverty desperation deprivation  undergroundpanther   Aug-29-05 03:43 PM   #3 
  - So, they're supposed to steal what they want? Are they supposed...  BikeWriter   Aug-29-05 03:50 PM   #9 
     - Most of us live...  Orsino   Aug-29-05 05:00 PM   #40 
  - This is not the French Revolution.  BikeWriter   Aug-29-05 03:48 PM   #5 
  - It's not the Golden Age, either.  lebkuchen   Aug-29-05 03:49 PM   #7 
     - They're stealing because they can. Don't try to glorify it.  BikeWriter   Aug-29-05 03:54 PM   #10 
     - I'm sure it has nothing to do with need.  lebkuchen   Aug-29-05 03:57 PM   #11 
     - The storm came in y-e-s-t-e-r-d-a-y!  BikeWriter   Aug-29-05 04:01 PM   #15 
        - And A few hot plasma TV's  undergroundpanther   Aug-29-05 04:45 PM   #25 
           - Stealing for food to eat is one thing, but for a security deposit is  mondo joe   Aug-29-05 04:48 PM   #27 
           - Not anytime  undergroundpanther   Aug-29-05 05:12 PM   #61 
              - Laws against theft are not "the rich man's rules".  mondo joe   Aug-29-05 05:15 PM   #67 
                 - If they cannot get  undergroundpanther   Aug-29-05 05:32 PM   #83 
                    - Why do you think it's the very poor vs the very rich?  mondo joe   Aug-29-05 05:34 PM   #90 
                       - No  undergroundpanther   Aug-29-05 05:52 PM   #106 
           - No, I've been in deep shit before, but I always managed to work...  BikeWriter   Aug-29-05 04:50 PM   #29 
           - How lovely for you, that you've always been acceptable to the ruling class  Mairead   Aug-29-05 04:59 PM   #38 
           - Answer the question. Are you going to excuse them when they kill?  BikeWriter   Aug-29-05 05:01 PM   #45 
           - First you have to demonstrate that they will kill.  Mairead   Aug-29-05 05:07 PM   #54 
           - They will have to kill to steal from me.  BikeWriter   Aug-29-05 05:11 PM   #60 
              - So you're making it up. I thought so. (nt)  Mairead   Aug-29-05 05:14 PM   #64 
              - I worked for everything I own. I have given thousands to deserving...  BikeWriter   Aug-29-05 05:18 PM   # 
              - Than GIVE again  undergroundpanther   Aug-29-05 05:31 PM   #82 
                 - You condone stealing. Fuck that. Someone steals from me...  BikeWriter   Aug-29-05 05:37 PM   #95 
                    - Yikes.  philosophie_en_rose   Aug-29-05 07:47 PM   #158 
                       - They have ethical choices to make...  BikeWriter   Aug-29-05 08:07 PM   #164 
              - So being poor is an acceptable reason to steal a TV but not to kill  mondo joe   Aug-29-05 05:18 PM   #71 
              - Deleted message  Name removed   Aug-29-05 05:28 PM   #79 
                 - Didn't you say we're animals? Isn't that what animals do?  mondo joe   Aug-29-05 05:29 PM   #81 
                 - Well to argue  undergroundpanther   Aug-29-05 05:39 PM   #97 
                    - I'm neither better nor worse than a chimp. But YOU are the one who  mondo joe   Aug-29-05 05:42 PM   #101 
                       - Ok do you not have INSURANCE  undergroundpanther   Aug-29-05 06:15 PM   #120 
                          - I don't own a business. You don't know what you're talking about.  mondo joe   Aug-29-05 06:54 PM   #143 
                          - You know some people actually EARN capital.....  tx_dem41   Aug-29-05 06:59 PM   #146 
                 - I'm sick? You are the one advocating stealing!  BikeWriter   Aug-29-05 05:51 PM   #105 
                    - Theft  undergroundpanther   Aug-29-05 06:04 PM   #114 
                       - I understand how to share. You advocate stealing!  BikeWriter   Aug-29-05 06:17 PM   #121 
           - Property owners?  undergroundpanther   Aug-29-05 05:26 PM   #77 
           - You may not realize it but property is not exclusive to the wealthy.  mondo joe   Aug-29-05 05:33 PM   #87 
           - Deleted message  Name removed   Aug-29-05 07:46 PM   #156 
           - You Assume Poor People Who Loot Will Kill?  stepnw1f   Aug-29-05 07:43 PM   #155 
              - I'd be happy to.  Llewlladdwr   Aug-29-05 11:10 PM   #167 
           - If you want to rail against the ruling class you're after the wrong people  mondo joe   Aug-29-05 05:02 PM   #47 
           - How is that relevant? (nt)  Mairead   Aug-29-05 05:08 PM   #55 
              - You're the one who brought up the ruling class. n/t  mondo joe   Aug-29-05 05:10 PM   #59 
                 - Fine, so your comment was not relevant. Didn't think so. (nt)  Mairead   Aug-29-05 05:15 PM   #66 
                    - You brought up the "ruling class". To what end? The ruling class  mondo joe   Aug-29-05 05:16 PM   #69 
                       - Because they rule  undergroundpanther   Aug-29-05 06:18 PM   #123 
                          - You ignore the fact that we all - including the poor - can change that  mondo joe   Aug-29-05 06:59 PM   #147 
           - Damn  undergroundpanther   Aug-29-05 05:20 PM   #73 
           - Depends  undergroundpanther   Aug-29-05 05:29 PM   #80 
              - Yes through a long slow death by use of slave labor.  lonestarnot   Aug-29-05 06:12 PM   #119 
           - Why Would It Be Wrong Then  DemocratSinceBirth   Aug-29-05 05:33 PM   #89 
              - I notice he hasn't answered you.  BikeWriter   Aug-29-05 05:58 PM   #109 
              - Do you want to glock people?  undergroundpanther   Aug-29-05 06:01 PM   #112 
                 - You Are Avoiding The Question...  DemocratSinceBirth   Aug-29-05 06:07 PM   #116 
                 - I Don't Want To Glock Anybody....  DemocratSinceBirth   Aug-29-05 06:10 PM   #118 
                    - Hee hee hee! You had better think again.  BikeWriter   Aug-29-05 06:36 PM   #131 
                 - Don't steal from me and you won't be quite so desperate.  BikeWriter   Aug-29-05 06:34 PM   #130 
     - Yes they can  undergroundpanther   Aug-29-05 04:05 PM   #18 
     - Don't fucking tell me I'm "haughty." You're excusing theft...  BikeWriter   Aug-29-05 04:54 PM   #31 
     - I Wouldn't Shoot Somebody Who Was Running Off With My Car  DemocratSinceBirth   Aug-29-05 06:37 PM   #132 
        - Precisely. Some people don't seem to understand that.  BikeWriter   Aug-29-05 06:39 PM   #134 
     - Since you put it that way, anyone can rationalize anything if they  mondo joe   Aug-29-05 04:55 PM   #32 
     - Who is "wealthy"?  Xithras   Aug-29-05 05:00 PM   #42 
     - Thank you, I agree. Anarchism one day into a disaster is crap.  BikeWriter   Aug-29-05 05:09 PM   #58 
     - My Dad Had A Ninth Grade Education...  DemocratSinceBirth   Aug-29-05 05:39 PM   #98 
        - And many business owners get by paycheck to paycheck just  mondo joe   Aug-29-05 05:44 PM   #102 
     - And the reason "The rich piggies and corporates...  usnret88   Aug-29-05 05:13 PM   #62 
     - agree 100 % n/t  kymar57   Aug-29-05 05:36 PM   #93 
     - If I had a baby  undergroundpanther   Aug-29-05 03:59 PM   #12 
        - Yeah, let's all act like animals!  BikeWriter   Aug-29-05 04:03 PM   #16 
        - We ARE animals  undergroundpanther   Aug-29-05 04:13 PM   #19 
        - If "we're animals" is your defense, it should also be the defense of  mondo joe   Aug-29-05 04:57 PM   #34 
        - Well be better than animals than,  undergroundpanther   Aug-29-05 05:01 PM   #44 
           - So which is it, are we animals? Or are we to hold to some ideals  mondo joe   Aug-29-05 05:03 PM   #50 
           - We have thics because we can  undergroundpanther   Aug-29-05 06:20 PM   #124 
              - It's funny how your standards keep shifting.  mondo joe   Aug-29-05 06:57 PM   #144 
           - I do share, but no one will steal from me!  BikeWriter   Aug-29-05 05:14 PM   #65 
        - You say you're an anmal. Yes, I'm an animal, too. I pay my own way...  BikeWriter   Aug-29-05 04:57 PM   #36 
           - See post #13  Karenina   Aug-29-05 05:15 PM   #68 
              - Thank you, I'll look.  BikeWriter   Aug-29-05 05:20 PM   #75 
        - Yes, you are right. Much better to let hungry people starve.  tjdee   Aug-29-05 04:59 PM   #37 
        - Why are you so sure that's what's going on?  igil   Aug-29-05 04:04 PM   #17 
           - Someone posted pictures..  undergroundpanther   Aug-29-05 04:22 PM   #21 
              - OK, I'm hijacking this thread  redwitch   Aug-29-05 04:47 PM   #26 
              - You are totally correct  petronius   Aug-29-05 04:57 PM   #35 
              - Yes. I like to think I'd be the one to charge in heroically...  redwitch   Aug-29-05 05:00 PM   #41 
              - Damn! It couldn't have been 2 seconds after I finished reading your post  11 Bravo   Aug-29-05 05:06 PM   #53 
              - I was hoping for pictures.  igil   Aug-29-05 05:33 PM   #88 
  - If you want to talk about looting..we need to see a gas station raising  patdem   Aug-29-05 03:59 PM   #13 
  - Right on! Well said. The spectrum of discourse is so deformed  Mairead   Aug-29-05 04:55 PM   #33 
  - 'Tis my understanding that the LA attorney general is going to  Telly Savalas   Aug-29-05 05:00 PM   #43 
  - I just recently learned about LA gouging laws..does ole Miss have the  patdem   Aug-29-05 05:06 PM   #52 
     - I don't know.  Telly Savalas   Aug-29-05 07:28 PM   #153 
  - One kind of looting does not make another acceptable.  mondo joe   Aug-29-05 05:08 PM   #57 
  - Looters would get to my business over my dead body  fishnfla   Aug-29-05 04:14 PM   #20 
  - Is your business FOOD?  Cooley Hurd   Aug-29-05 04:25 PM   #22 
  - Yeah, because after all it's up to you to feed everyone and not  mondo joe   Aug-29-05 04:49 PM   #28 
     - Ooh - a stalker!  Cooley Hurd   Aug-29-05 04:50 PM   #30 
     -' get insurance payments..people could starve to  patdem   Aug-29-05 05:02 PM   #48 
        - As I've said elsewhere I think stealing to survive if all other  mondo joe   Aug-29-05 05:04 PM   #51 
           - So I suppose you expect the 'head of the family' to say..lets gather round  patdem   Aug-29-05 05:36 PM   #92 
              - What problem can you possibly have with what what I said? If all  mondo joe   Aug-29-05 05:38 PM   #96 
                 - mondo joe..I have remained silent..and just reading about what COUL:D  patdem   Aug-29-05 05:50 PM   #104 
                    - Thanks Pat. And it is a very frustrating time.  mondo joe   Aug-29-05 05:52 PM   #107 
  - Well  undergroundpanther   Aug-29-05 04:39 PM   #24 
     - Beautifully said!  Mairead   Aug-29-05 05:13 PM   #63 
     - "If I had a business I'd give my stuff away" Two words. Bull. shit.  BikeWriter   Aug-29-05 05:32 PM   #85 
     - Some people think if you have things it's just "stuff". They don't  mondo joe   Aug-29-05 05:36 PM   #91 
        - You got that right, Joe. I sweated and bled for everything I own...  BikeWriter   Aug-29-05 05:41 PM   #100 
           - Everyone sweats and bleeds  undergroundpanther   Aug-29-05 05:59 PM   #110 
              - You bring up shit that does not relate. I have dug ditches..  BikeWriter   Aug-29-05 06:05 PM   #115 
     - Underground..I thought this when I read about the insurance companies  patdem   Aug-29-05 06:01 PM   #113 
        - I know  undergroundpanther   Aug-29-05 06:21 PM   #126 
  - Anyone who doesn't have enough food for a couple of days planned poorly  slackmaster   Aug-29-05 05:08 PM   #56 
  - Most people live paycheck to paycheck. There is NO extra money  TheGoldenRule   Aug-29-05 05:19 PM   #72 
     - Exactly.  tjdee   Aug-29-05 05:23 PM   #76 
  - Since I don't have cable it's kind of difficult to understand  TheGoldenRule   Aug-29-05 05:17 PM   #70 
  - Actually, no.....  ProudToBeBlueInRhody   Aug-29-05 07:02 PM   #149 
  - * told people not to leave their shelters until they got PERMISSION too.  HypnoToad   Aug-29-05 05:20 PM   #74 
  - Not everyone  VADem11   Aug-29-05 05:28 PM   #78 
  - I definitely see a difference between stealing food and stealing ATM  tjdee   Aug-29-05 05:33 PM   #86 
     - Money BUYS food It can BUY a car to get OUT of the disaster.  undergroundpanther   Aug-29-05 06:00 PM   #111 
        - Oh definitely.  tjdee   Aug-29-05 06:07 PM   #117 
           - THIS IS THE CRUX  undergroundpanther   Aug-29-05 06:30 PM   #129 
              - You Judge An Act By The Effect On The Victim  DemocratSinceBirth   Aug-29-05 06:40 PM   #136 
              - Perpretrators are innocent until proven guilty  undergroundpanther   Aug-29-05 10:44 PM   #166 
              - I hope you have never acted upon the morality you expound...  BikeWriter   Aug-29-05 07:51 PM   #160 
  - I'm not excusing looting- I lived thru the 1977 NYC blackout  Danmel   Aug-29-05 05:32 PM   #84 
  - Are New Yorkers richer than they used to be?  tjdee   Aug-29-05 05:37 PM   #94 
  - Some are, a lot aren't  Danmel   Aug-29-05 05:41 PM   #99 
  - My own unprofessional opinion  Pied Piper   Aug-29-05 09:55 PM   #165 
  - There Was Looting After 9-11  DemocratSinceBirth   Aug-29-05 05:49 PM   #103 
  - Yes, they are the buzzards, the jackals, the hyenas.  BikeWriter   Aug-29-05 05:55 PM   #108 
     - Here's The Link....  DemocratSinceBirth   Aug-29-05 06:20 PM   #125 
        - That is terribly sad. I was a firefighter in a well known city...  BikeWriter   Aug-29-05 06:25 PM   #127 
           - We Aren't Sure Who Did It...  DemocratSinceBirth   Aug-29-05 06:27 PM   #128 
              - Yes, hopefully it was someone else's stash. Whatever...  BikeWriter   Aug-29-05 06:37 PM   #133 
  - Rumsfeld thought looting in Iraq after invasion was acceptable...!  Imagevision   Aug-29-05 06:17 PM   #122 
  - Thats because  undergroundpanther   Aug-29-05 06:42 PM   #137 
  - Hmmm......I wonder what food was in that smashed ATM?  ProudToBeBlueInRhody   Aug-29-05 06:40 PM   #135 
  - Hmm I wonder what food could be bought  undergroundpanther   Aug-29-05 06:43 PM   #138 
     - All the stores are closed.....  ProudToBeBlueInRhody   Aug-29-05 06:47 PM   #139 
     - That's what happens when one rationalizes dishonesty...  BikeWriter   Aug-29-05 06:51 PM   #142 
     - You are advocating theft, not welfare, anarchy, not sharing.  BikeWriter   Aug-29-05 06:48 PM   #140 
     - Nobody Is Discussing The Effect On The Looter's Soul...  DemocratSinceBirth   Aug-29-05 06:58 PM   #145 
        - Lol! Yes, we expect nothing but immorality from *.  BikeWriter   Aug-29-05 07:06 PM   #151 
           - Please Rent The Movie Crash...  DemocratSinceBirth   Aug-29-05 07:34 PM   #154 
              - Aww hell, so does good triumph over evil, or do I rent the movie?  BikeWriter   Aug-29-05 07:46 PM   #157 
                 - It's Set In LA  DemocratSinceBirth   Aug-29-05 07:50 PM   #159 
                 - Cool, if I'm ever written into such a movie...  BikeWriter   Aug-29-05 07:54 PM   #161 
                 - Here's A Link...  DemocratSinceBirth   Aug-29-05 07:54 PM   #162 
                    - Thank you, yes, it has been a rough day.  BikeWriter   Aug-29-05 07:58 PM   #163 
     - Under Your Scenario  DemocratSinceBirth   Aug-29-05 06:50 PM   #141 
     - Bought? But if they could BUY food they wouldn't be LOOTing,  mondo joe   Aug-29-05 07:00 PM   #148 
        - I Have Been Around Marxists, Socialists Anarchists, Etcetera  DemocratSinceBirth   Aug-29-05 07:04 PM   #150 
           - Agreed.  BikeWriter   Aug-29-05 07:10 PM   #152 
  - Locking  Moderator   Aug-30-05 12:03 AM   #168 

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