Autonomy
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Sat Aug-20-05 02:38 PM
Original message |
| No, but I am not expecting an excuse |
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I am saying that voting against the resolution giving Bush the authority to go to war would NOT have stopped the war, but would have stopped that candidate's chances of molding foreign policy as president later.
We already have the proof: Democrats nominated a pro-resolution (which is not the same a "pro-war"!) candidate in 2004. I suspect the same will be true in 2008, but that remains to be seen.
|
| -Pro-war Democrats |
pberq |
Aug-20-05 12:29 PM |
#0 |
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Since Hillary and |
jrthin |
Aug-20-05 12:34 PM |
#1 |
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"Since Hillary and Biden are so pro-war" |
moddemny |
Aug-20-05 11:56 PM |
#99 |
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Deleted message |
Name removed |
Aug-21-05 02:07 PM |
#109 |
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Automactically calling someone a dlc operative....... |
moddemny |
Aug-21-05 03:10 PM |
#112 |
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But the DLC bot that can't spell automatically is clearly sporting high IQ |
tasteblind |
Aug-22-05 02:14 PM |
#122 |
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Clinging to a typo to win a debate? |
moddemny |
Aug-23-05 04:01 AM |
#125 |
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You cast the first stone with your "brain dead" comment. |
tasteblind |
Aug-23-05 07:28 AM |
#127 |
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I cast the first stone? |
moddemny |
Aug-23-05 12:57 PM |
#128 |
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This is just like what Kerry did...he voted for the war and then |
tasteblind |
Aug-23-05 02:00 PM |
#129 |
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Part of the problem ...... |
moddemny |
Aug-23-05 04:40 PM |
#134 |
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The DLC is just a home for "moderate" Republicans. |
Tierra_y_Libertad |
Aug-20-05 12:36 PM |
#2 |
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We were going to war |
Autonomy |
Aug-20-05 12:39 PM |
#3 |
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True to a degree |
amBushed |
Aug-20-05 12:46 PM |
#4 |
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Yeah, remember Kerry and Clelland |
Autonomy |
Aug-20-05 01:01 PM |
#12 |
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Kerry was done in by the "flip flop" attack |
Armstead |
Aug-20-05 01:10 PM |
#19 |
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If that were true |
Autonomy |
Aug-20-05 01:14 PM |
#25 |
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Anyone asked Hagel or Jones if they are 'flipflopping'? |
Mayberry Machiavelli |
Aug-20-05 01:21 PM |
#30 |
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Had Saddam not been captured in December |
dsc |
Aug-20-05 02:12 PM |
#58 |
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The Dem Establishment is enslaved to corporate interests who profit off of |
Larkspur |
Aug-20-05 02:36 PM |
#65 |
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That's it in a nutshell, Larkspur! |
pberq |
Aug-20-05 02:55 PM |
#76 |
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I can think of two easy examples: Feinstein and Harman. |
Zhade |
Aug-20-05 03:12 PM |
#82 |
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Because the media and Democratic establishment... |
Armstead |
Aug-20-05 02:48 PM |
#74 |
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Yeah, except the problem was, Humphrey was not a true antiwar candidate |
pberq |
Aug-20-05 01:55 PM |
#41 |
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Some revisionist history there. |
amBushed |
Aug-20-05 02:41 PM |
#71 |
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Ok, it was a poor comparison |
Autonomy |
Aug-20-05 02:52 PM |
#75 |
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O.K. may be that was true in 2002, BUT this is 2005! |
pberq |
Aug-20-05 12:47 PM |
#5 |
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So they won't be painted as "soft on defense," |
NYCGirl |
Aug-20-05 12:50 PM |
#8 |
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So they should embrace an ongoing war crime for PR purposes? |
Zhade |
Aug-20-05 02:05 PM |
#47 |
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Explain the 'necessity' of it please. And why is it not 'necessary' for |
Mayberry Machiavelli |
Aug-20-05 12:49 PM |
#6 |
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"Political necessity" cost thousands of lives. |
Tierra_y_Libertad |
Aug-20-05 12:55 PM |
#10 |
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Right. So much for personal integrity and sticking to one's beliefs. |
TankLV |
Aug-20-05 01:10 PM |
#20 |
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"We were against the war, our deputies, our Ministers, were all against... |
JanMichael |
Aug-20-05 03:27 PM |
#89 |
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Well, the political climate changes. |
renaissanceguy |
Aug-20-05 03:54 PM |
#95 |
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No. F-ing. Way. A vote on war is the time to stand up, not the time |
KnowerOfLogic |
Aug-20-05 04:58 PM |
#98 |
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"Pro-war". Nice sound bite. Short and slanderous. |
Inland |
Aug-20-05 12:49 PM |
#7 |
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Humbug. They voted for the war and still support the occupation. |
Tierra_y_Libertad |
Aug-20-05 12:53 PM |
#9 |
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The first order of business for a politician |
Autonomy |
Aug-20-05 01:04 PM |
#14 |
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Yeah, even if it's on the graves of the innocent. |
Zhade |
Aug-20-05 02:09 PM |
#54 |
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Well, I don't think I am posting on a site called... |
Autonomy |
Aug-20-05 02:59 PM |
#78 |
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Nope, I checked, you're not. |
Zhade |
Aug-20-05 03:08 PM |
#81 |
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And so does wishful thinking |
Autonomy |
Aug-20-05 03:17 PM |
#85 |
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There's a difference between wishful thinking and idealism. |
Zhade |
Aug-20-05 03:21 PM |
#87 |
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The difference between idealism and wishful thinking is |
Autonomy |
Aug-20-05 03:31 PM |
#91 |
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That's not wishful thinking, that's arrogance. |
Zhade |
Aug-20-05 03:50 PM |
#93 |
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Hey, why not both? |
Autonomy |
Aug-20-05 04:29 PM |
#97 |
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Yes. At any price. Even the bodies of people. |
Tierra_y_Libertad |
Aug-20-05 02:37 PM |
#66 |
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No, they didn't "vote for the war." |
Inland |
Aug-20-05 01:19 PM |
#28 |
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Sorry, but they knew what they were doing when they voted for |
pberq |
Aug-20-05 01:54 PM |
#40 |
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What were they doing? |
paulk |
Aug-20-05 03:06 PM |
#79 |
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If we go with your interpretation, a question arises: |
Zhade |
Aug-20-05 03:15 PM |
#84 |
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I'm sure there were different reasons for different people |
paulk |
Aug-20-05 03:54 PM |
#96 |
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Thanks for the thoughtful reply. |
Zhade |
Aug-21-05 03:19 PM |
#114 |
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well, it's known that Kerry was on Gore's shortlist |
paulk |
Aug-21-05 08:13 PM |
#117 |
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Sad that we live in a country where such views would be a liability! |
Zhade |
Aug-21-05 09:07 PM |
#120 |
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Hillary and Biden were for it. And, still are. |
Tierra_y_Libertad |
Aug-20-05 02:40 PM |
#68 |
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What purpose does the truth serve, besides peace and justice? |
Inland |
Aug-21-05 12:21 PM |
#101 |
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The "truth" is that they acted like the opportunistic politicians they are |
Tierra_y_Libertad |
Aug-21-05 12:35 PM |
#103 |
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And your proof of that, is that they didn't agree with you. Nothing more. |
Inland |
Aug-21-05 01:26 PM |
#104 |
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Well, keep on defending the politicians who put their ambitions first. |
Tierra_y_Libertad |
Aug-21-05 01:49 PM |
#106 |
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The truth is the truth. You can decide if it's a defense. |
Inland |
Aug-21-05 02:38 PM |
#110 |
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Just where are the "lies" you are talking about? |
Tierra_y_Libertad |
Aug-21-05 08:43 PM |
#118 |
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What, haven't I been clear? |
Inland |
Aug-22-05 02:12 PM |
#121 |
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The best clue to those who genuinely want to get out |
karynnj |
Aug-21-05 01:42 PM |
#105 |
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Amen... |
liberaliraqvet26 |
Aug-20-05 01:02 PM |
#13 |
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So they are opportunists whores, willing to sell out to the highest bidder |
TankLV |
Aug-20-05 01:11 PM |
#21 |
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There were 21 Democratic Senators and well over 100 House members... |
Telly Savalas |
Aug-20-05 01:12 PM |
#22 |
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And name one |
Autonomy |
Aug-20-05 01:15 PM |
# |
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Russ Feingold 2008 |
wuushew |
Aug-20-05 01:18 PM |
#27 |
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I've not seen a poll that includes Feingold |
Autonomy |
Aug-20-05 01:36 PM |
#34 |
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Yes! Feingold is our best bet as of now |
pberq |
Aug-20-05 02:40 PM |
#70 |
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A whiff of hypocrisy |
FightinNewDem |
Aug-21-05 08:47 PM |
#119 |
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Anti-War > Pro-labor |
wuushew |
Aug-22-05 02:51 PM |
#124 |
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So it's okay to allow oneself to be 'fooled' for political expediency? |
Zhade |
Aug-20-05 02:17 PM |
#60 |
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No, but I am not expecting an excuse |
Autonomy |
Aug-20-05 02:38 PM |
# |
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I don't believe that for a second. |
pberq |
Aug-20-05 02:43 PM |
#72 |
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I think you actually answered me in the affirmative. |
Zhade |
Aug-20-05 02:47 PM |
#73 |
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I don't think it's all that iffy |
Autonomy |
Aug-20-05 02:57 PM |
#77 |
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Yeah, and the 'containment' including constant bombings... |
Zhade |
Aug-20-05 03:06 PM |
#80 |
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I'll take a Democrat who is "marginally better" on FP |
Autonomy |
Aug-20-05 03:14 PM |
#83 |
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So the only choices in this country are 'kinda militaristic'... |
Zhade |
Aug-20-05 03:19 PM |
#86 |
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Cindy Sheehan might have changed that |
pberq |
Aug-20-05 03:25 PM |
#88 |
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I think it was possible long before Cindy. |
Zhade |
Aug-20-05 03:29 PM |
#90 |
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It's not that black and white |
karynnj |
Aug-21-05 01:57 PM |
#107 |
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"...that the Iraq war would not have happened?" |
Zhade |
Aug-21-05 03:22 PM |
#115 |
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Sorry, but there was plenty of evidence out there that Bush was lying |
pberq |
Aug-20-05 01:57 PM |
#43 |
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the IWR was equivalent to holding a gun to someone's head |
wuushew |
Aug-20-05 01:05 PM |
#15 |
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Swingvoters & moderates dont buy that. Neither do Liberal DEMs. |
Dr Fate |
Aug-20-05 01:05 PM |
#16 |
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Perhaps they would say they made a mistake |
Autonomy |
Aug-20-05 01:13 PM |
#23 |
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Does someone have to ask them to speak the obvious? |
Dr Fate |
Aug-20-05 01:15 PM |
#26 |
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You are so right! |
sue_66 |
Aug-20-05 01:24 PM |
#31 |
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And when they do "come clean", we'll be here to call them liars |
Inland |
Aug-20-05 01:24 PM |
#32 |
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They should have listened to the base from the get go... |
Dr Fate |
Aug-20-05 01:39 PM |
#35 |
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Your premise is confusing. |
Zhade |
Aug-20-05 02:15 PM |
#59 |
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The OP says they were "pro war." |
Inland |
Aug-21-05 12:10 PM |
#100 |
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Well, some of them ARE pro-war. |
Zhade |
Aug-21-05 03:24 PM |
#116 |
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As long as they support continued occupation. |
K-W |
Aug-20-05 01:09 PM |
#18 |
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No, they aren't. |
Inland |
Aug-20-05 01:28 PM |
#33 |
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"there's going to be a war either way"??? |
pberq |
Aug-20-05 02:02 PM |
#46 |
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Pro-war is pro-war, you are spinning. |
K-W |
Aug-20-05 02:06 PM |
#51 |
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This argument that those politicians, who have access to |
Skidmore |
Aug-20-05 01:49 PM |
#37 |
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Well said, Skidmore |
pberq |
Aug-20-05 02:05 PM |
#48 |
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DAMN STRAIGHT! |
Zhade |
Aug-20-05 02:25 PM |
#61 |
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Sorry, but there was plenty of evidence |
pberq |
Aug-20-05 01:50 PM |
#39 |
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Look at Clinton servicing a Big Lie! |
Zhade |
Aug-20-05 02:32 PM |
#63 |
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You know, it's interesting - even if the UN had approved the war... |
Zhade |
Aug-20-05 02:08 PM |
#52 |
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exactly so! |
GreenArrow |
Aug-21-05 02:58 PM |
#111 |
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Excuse me, but WE knew the war was bullshit as far back as 2002 |
derby378 |
Aug-21-05 03:16 PM |
#113 |
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They are out of touch and 1 year behind the times- as always. |
Dr Fate |
Aug-20-05 12:57 PM |
#11 |
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Do you remember when |
Autonomy |
Aug-20-05 01:07 PM |
#17 |
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Rangel expressed that intention... |
Dr Fate |
Aug-20-05 01:13 PM |
#24 |
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DrFate has hit the bullseye again. It is the reason the Democratic |
greyhound1966 |
Aug-20-05 01:20 PM |
#29 |
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This discussion points out the need for a dark horse Dem. candidate. |
heidler1 |
Aug-20-05 01:44 PM |
#36 |
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Hackett did not use those failed DEM strategies- he used his gut. |
Dr Fate |
Aug-20-05 01:49 PM |
#38 |
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"This discussion points out the need for a dark horse Dem. candidate." |
CNewton |
Aug-20-05 01:56 PM |
#42 |
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Kennedy already ran in 1980 |
wuushew |
Aug-20-05 01:59 PM |
#44 |
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Nah- why turn an election into a media murder mystery? |
Dr Fate |
Aug-20-05 02:01 PM |
#45 |
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Let em talk |
CNewton |
Aug-20-05 02:06 PM |
#50 |
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Good luck with that one. n/t |
Dr Fate |
Aug-20-05 02:10 PM |
#55 |
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I think you're right, but, once again, he/she will be slapped down |
greyhound1966 |
Aug-20-05 03:52 PM |
#94 |
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Yeah, and all too often it's the MIDDLE finger. |
Zhade |
Aug-20-05 02:33 PM |
#64 |
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I don't see them as pro-war at all. |
Oerdin |
Aug-20-05 02:05 PM |
#49 |
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Anyone who supports more war, is pro-war. This isnt complicated. |
K-W |
Aug-20-05 02:08 PM |
#53 |
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Nuance did not work in '04. |
Dr Fate |
Aug-20-05 02:11 PM |
#56 |
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I don't think everyone agrees that US pullout = civil war at all. |
Mayberry Machiavelli |
Aug-20-05 02:12 PM |
#57 |
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So you still buy the big Civil War excuse? |
pberq |
Aug-20-05 02:38 PM |
#67 |
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"...is not even remotely in our interests..." |
Zhade |
Aug-20-05 02:40 PM |
#69 |
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only peace can be negotiated |
no_to_war_economy |
Aug-23-05 02:26 PM |
#132 |
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the Strategic Class |
pberq |
Aug-20-05 02:32 PM |
#62 |
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Perhaps this illistrates the need for a true 'Liberal Party' |
God Bless the USA |
Aug-20-05 03:38 PM |
#92 |
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Fear. Pure and Simple. |
salin |
Aug-21-05 12:24 PM |
#102 |
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I'll vote in the primaries |
Geek_Girl |
Aug-21-05 02:04 PM |
#108 |
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Well it is because their corporate masters don't want the war to end |
MadHound |
Aug-22-05 02:18 PM |
#123 |
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The return of the BS construct that only serve the GOP to devide + conquer |
Bombtrack |
Aug-23-05 05:05 AM |
#126 |
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This is Bush's war. The only "pro-war Democrat" is Zell Miller. |
oasis |
Aug-23-05 02:09 PM |
#130 |
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Hillary and Biden are the furthest thing from my mind - they don't show me |
Imagevision |
Aug-23-05 02:20 PM |
#131 |
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Blame Democrats for not speaking up NOW, but enough w/blaming them |
mtnsnake |
Aug-23-05 02:33 PM |
#133 |
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