bpilgrim
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Fri Aug-05-05 10:04 PM
Response to Reply #1 |
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for whom the bell tolls...
peace
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| -Hiroshima: What would you have done? |
bpilgrim |
Aug-05-05 09:45 PM |
#0 |
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The A-bomb was a war crime. Palestinians do commit terrorist acts. But |
wurzel |
Aug-05-05 09:58 PM |
#1 |
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don't ask |
bpilgrim |
Aug-05-05 10:04 PM |
#3 |
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Cooking men women and children non combatants is hard for me to deal |
niallmac |
Aug-05-05 11:03 PM |
#10 |
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I agree, niallmac |
zanne |
Aug-06-05 09:00 AM |
#71 |
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The problem with the demo option was, they only had two bombs |
Bucky |
Aug-06-05 12:23 PM |
#113 |
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Hiroshima & Nagasaki did have military production facilities. |
Bucky |
Aug-06-05 12:19 PM |
#112 |
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Okay, who voted "other" and didn't elaborate? n/t |
IanDB1 |
Aug-05-05 09:59 PM |
#2 |
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hmm |
dweller |
Aug-05-05 10:05 PM |
#5 |
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Demo |
dweller |
Aug-05-05 10:04 PM |
#4 |
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Demonstration |
ck4829 |
Aug-05-05 10:17 PM |
#6 |
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Hiroshima was quite a Demonstration, yet |
Fescue4u |
Aug-06-05 01:33 AM |
#33 |
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I would have dropped it on some harmless, peaceful natives somewhere |
IanDB1 |
Aug-05-05 10:19 PM |
#7 |
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I voted for "demo" |
aint_no_life_nowhere |
Aug-05-05 10:30 PM |
#8 |
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the US fascists didn't care about Auschwitz and didn't care about nukes |
wli |
Aug-05-05 10:46 PM |
#9 |
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FDR and Truman were Fascists?? n/t |
wrlwnd |
Aug-06-05 12:49 AM |
#27 |
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I would say that they themselves were not |
wli |
Aug-06-05 01:24 AM |
#30 |
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They're are others calling the shots |
libhill |
Aug-06-05 07:15 AM |
#37 |
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What a terribly uninformed thing to say. |
Bucky |
Aug-06-05 12:25 PM |
#114 |
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Same damn thing - I don't go for revisionist history. |
TankLV |
Aug-05-05 11:14 PM |
#11 |
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not everyone is gung-ho for collective guilt |
MisterP |
Aug-05-05 11:26 PM |
#13 |
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But you all sure are for imagined innocence! |
TankLV |
Aug-06-05 11:53 AM |
#96 |
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You cannot justify an injustice with another injustice |
manic expression |
Aug-05-05 11:30 PM |
#16 |
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please read the information. you'll see the revisionism was the other |
nofurylike |
Aug-06-05 12:35 AM |
#25 |
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I did, THEY are the revisionist history. |
TankLV |
Aug-06-05 11:54 AM |
#97 |
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Without any doubt and unequivocably, precisely the same thing as was done |
Walt Starr |
Aug-05-05 11:23 PM |
#12 |
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You'd sleep easily after murdering so many |
manic expression |
Aug-05-05 11:43 PM |
#18 |
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I would know that the war was ended |
Walt Starr |
Aug-05-05 11:59 PM |
#20 |
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The killing would stop... |
manic expression |
Aug-06-05 12:05 AM |
#21 |
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The Japanese were the enemy, their deaths do not matter. |
Walt Starr |
Aug-06-05 12:21 AM |
#23 |
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Words cannot describe.... |
manic expression |
Aug-06-05 12:36 AM |
#26 |
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Hiroshima was a center of military industry |
Walt Starr |
Aug-06-05 08:14 AM |
#50 |
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And those 70,000 innocents |
manic expression |
Aug-06-05 09:39 AM |
#80 |
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They don't matter a whit |
Walt Starr |
Aug-06-05 11:04 AM |
#85 |
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they were defeated and suing for peace... |
bpilgrim |
Aug-06-05 11:08 AM |
#88 |
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No, they weren't. |
Walt Starr |
Aug-06-05 01:06 PM |
#121 |
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Sueing for peace |
Parche |
Aug-06-05 04:29 PM |
#153 |
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Deleted message |
Name removed |
Aug-06-05 11:56 AM |
#98 |
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Ahh, now you resort to personal attacks |
Walt Starr |
Aug-06-05 01:11 PM |
#125 |
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Deleted message |
Name removed |
Aug-06-05 03:24 PM |
#146 |
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Oh, and by the way... |
manic expression |
Aug-06-05 03:29 PM |
#148 |
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debate |
Parche |
Aug-06-05 04:52 PM |
#157 |
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I am not attacking, |
manic expression |
Aug-06-05 05:03 PM |
#158 |
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Sure didn't stop the Germans and Japanese from doing it! |
TankLV |
Aug-06-05 11:56 AM |
#99 |
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Take 2... |
manic expression |
Aug-06-05 03:27 PM |
#147 |
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Hey Walt |
Parche |
Aug-06-05 04:17 PM |
#151 |
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The Japanese had their enemies. |
tuckessee |
Aug-06-05 12:51 AM |
#28 |
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Sometimes it takes evil to stop evil. |
ovidsen |
Aug-06-05 07:45 AM |
#40 |
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That's not genocide |
Walt Starr |
Aug-06-05 08:09 AM |
#47 |
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Genocide |
Parche |
Aug-06-05 04:26 PM |
#152 |
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How is that stance any different than the current U.S. position on Iraq? |
SemiCharmedQuark |
Aug-06-05 08:07 AM |
#43 |
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Excuse me, when did the Iraqis bomb Pearl Harbor? n/t |
Walt Starr |
Aug-06-05 08:08 AM |
#44 |
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Ok, Afghanistan then? |
SemiCharmedQuark |
Aug-06-05 08:09 AM |
#46 |
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Whendid the Taliban bomb anything? n./t |
Walt Starr |
Aug-06-05 08:10 AM |
#48 |
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You're dodging the point purposely. |
SemiCharmedQuark |
Aug-06-05 08:12 AM |
#49 |
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No, I'm not. Youre comparing apples to kangaroos. n/t |
Walt Starr |
Aug-06-05 08:15 AM |
#51 |
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How? How is killing civilians different in one case than in the other? |
SemiCharmedQuark |
Aug-06-05 08:16 AM |
#52 |
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#1, Civilians are killed in ALL wars. There is one way to end that - |
Walt Starr |
Aug-06-05 08:22 AM |
#55 |
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This wasn't a few civilians caught in the crosshairs of war. |
SemiCharmedQuark |
Aug-06-05 08:47 AM |
#60 |
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What do you figure was the civilian to soldier ratio in a ball bearing |
Walt Starr |
Aug-06-05 08:57 AM |
#69 |
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Why does the fact that they killed more people in another bombing excuse |
SemiCharmedQuark |
Aug-06-05 11:35 AM |
#92 |
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It proves that civilian casualties when targeting a legitimate military |
Walt Starr |
Aug-06-05 01:48 PM |
#131 |
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Enemy |
Parche |
Aug-06-05 04:31 PM |
#154 |
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sounds like the SAME thing UBL would say |
bpilgrim |
Aug-06-05 08:20 AM |
#54 |
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Don't like the realities of war? |
Walt Starr |
Aug-06-05 08:35 AM |
#58 |
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that tired cartoon PROPAGANDA is clearly affecting your judgment on this |
bpilgrim |
Aug-06-05 08:50 AM |
#61 |
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I will go with the opinion of the TOP military advisers that it WAS |
Walt Starr |
Aug-06-05 08:54 AM |
#67 |
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the facts are japan was defeated and suing for peace |
bpilgrim |
Aug-06-05 09:06 AM |
#75 |
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The facts are, there were two factions in Japan at the time |
Walt Starr |
Aug-06-05 09:10 AM |
#76 |
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they had 1 condition, that we finally agreed to, then it ended |
bpilgrim |
Aug-06-05 09:40 AM |
#81 |
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But those suing for peace with that one condition could not back it up |
Walt Starr |
Aug-06-05 11:06 AM |
#86 |
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our military leaders backed it up... |
bpilgrim |
Aug-06-05 11:22 AM |
#90 |
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But the Japanese military WOULD NOT HAVE ACCEPTED IT!!!!! |
Walt Starr |
Aug-06-05 01:08 PM |
#122 |
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they did accept, though, as history records, once their 1 condition w/met |
bpilgrim |
Aug-06-05 01:48 PM |
#130 |
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Tojo was not prepared to accept it and it was only accepted AFTER |
Walt Starr |
Aug-06-05 01:51 PM |
#133 |
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And the apologists conveniently igonore the FACT that the |
TankLV |
Aug-06-05 12:02 PM |
#103 |
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Yeah - suing for peace so much that they didn't surrender after the FIRST |
TankLV |
Aug-06-05 12:00 PM |
#102 |
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I agree |
libhill |
Aug-06-05 07:24 AM |
#38 |
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so you would not have opted to SAVE LIVES? and ignored all your militarily |
bpilgrim |
Aug-06-05 08:17 AM |
#53 |
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No, I would have followed the advise of the TOP TWO military advisers |
Walt Starr |
Aug-06-05 08:50 AM |
#62 |
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that is fucking sick.. |
jonnyblitz |
Aug-06-05 08:55 AM |
#68 |
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No, sick would have been invading Japan. |
Walt Starr |
Aug-06-05 09:00 AM |
#72 |
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That's crap... |
manic expression |
Aug-06-05 12:11 PM |
#110 |
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WRONG, a new cabinet was offering peace with NO AUTHORITY |
Walt Starr |
Aug-06-05 01:11 PM |
#124 |
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Then accept the peace |
manic expression |
Aug-06-05 02:50 PM |
#142 |
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the way things were back then |
Skypilot 18 |
Aug-05-05 11:27 PM |
#14 |
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BINGO! Ding! Ding! Ding! |
TankLV |
Aug-06-05 12:04 PM |
#106 |
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20/20 Hindsight is one thing, but in the context of the times, I would |
rasputin1952 |
Aug-05-05 11:29 PM |
#15 |
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Exactly What Was Done, Mr. Pilgrim |
The Magistrate |
Aug-05-05 11:35 PM |
#17 |
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exactly what was done, sssssssssir? a quarter of a million humans were |
nofurylike |
Aug-06-05 01:11 AM |
#29 |
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Your Grasp Of The History Involved, Ma'am |
The Magistrate |
Aug-06-05 01:29 AM |
#31 |
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do not call me ma'am. now, you do need more study, if you wish to |
nofurylike |
Aug-06-05 01:35 AM |
#34 |
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I would have opted to accept my military leaders advice to SAVE LIVES |
bpilgrim |
Aug-06-05 08:33 AM |
#57 |
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That's what Truman did. |
Walt Starr |
Aug-06-05 09:02 AM |
#74 |
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the military leaders in theater advised accepting japans 1 condition |
bpilgrim |
Aug-06-05 09:28 AM |
#79 |
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The people who made that one condition didn't have the guns |
Walt Starr |
Aug-06-05 11:07 AM |
#87 |
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No need for 2 bombs. |
Xap |
Aug-05-05 11:49 PM |
#19 |
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And that wasn't the end - |
libhill |
Aug-06-05 07:41 AM |
#39 |
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Bomb #1 didn't convince them to surrender. |
TankLV |
Aug-06-05 12:09 PM |
#107 |
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True. But neither did Bomb #2. Fear of Russian occupation ended the war |
Bucky |
Aug-06-05 12:38 PM |
#120 |
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A-Bombing Japan, twice, was the appropriate response... |
Jack_DeLeon |
Aug-06-05 12:13 AM |
#22 |
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thank you for this thread, bpilgrim. and for the links. devastating.... |
nofurylike |
Aug-06-05 12:22 AM |
#24 |
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thank you for participating and pass'n the word |
bpilgrim |
Aug-06-05 08:52 AM |
#65 |
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Bomb them till they stop killing Americans |
Fescue4u |
Aug-06-05 01:32 AM |
#32 |
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such as accepting the terms of surrender tendered BEFORE the bombs, |
nofurylike |
Aug-06-05 04:52 AM |
#36 |
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There was no valid reason to accept |
Fescue4u |
Aug-06-05 12:02 PM |
#105 |
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Again - that is BULLSHIT! |
TankLV |
Aug-06-05 12:10 PM |
#108 |
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I've always thought this debate itself was misguided |
Oak2004 |
Aug-06-05 01:58 AM |
#35 |
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One thing is certain |
libhill |
Aug-06-05 08:09 AM |
#45 |
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60 years of "relative" peace is something... |
Jack_DeLeon |
Aug-06-05 02:27 PM |
#137 |
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When you total the cost in blood |
libhill |
Aug-06-05 02:40 PM |
#140 |
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no military leader in theater AT THAT TIME agree with you... |
bpilgrim |
Aug-06-05 08:30 AM |
#56 |
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The TOP military advisers said drop the bomb! |
Walt Starr |
Aug-06-05 08:52 AM |
#64 |
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I don't think I could have brought myself to use nukes |
Raiden |
Aug-06-05 07:48 AM |
#41 |
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Should of dropped it right on the Emperors Palace |
Freedomfried |
Aug-06-05 07:57 AM |
#42 |
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They were crimes against humanity. |
Tierra_y_Libertad |
Aug-06-05 08:46 AM |
#59 |
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exactly, pure fucking evil. nt |
jonnyblitz |
Aug-06-05 08:58 AM |
#70 |
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150 Chicago Scientists who worked on the bomb were polled in 1945... |
Junkdrawer |
Aug-06-05 08:51 AM |
#63 |
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A "demonstration" was militarily unfeasible. n/t |
Walt Starr |
Aug-06-05 08:53 AM |
#66 |
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How so? |
wuushew |
Aug-06-05 09:11 AM |
#77 |
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I would have done nothig to alter the war |
Walt Starr |
Aug-06-05 01:09 PM |
#123 |
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"legitimate military targest such as Hiroshima and Nagasaki."... |
Junkdrawer |
Aug-06-05 01:16 PM |
#126 |
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One again....besides other facts of the war, if the Firestorm over Tokyo, |
rasputin1952 |
Aug-06-05 09:02 AM |
#73 |
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Red Army Invasion of Manchuria |
Boreas |
Aug-06-05 09:19 AM |
#78 |
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EVERY military leader in theater at the time DISAGREED with decision |
bpilgrim |
Aug-06-05 09:46 AM |
#82 |
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"THE DECISION TO USE THE ATOMIC BOMB" - THE H-NET DEBATE |
bpilgrim |
Aug-06-05 09:56 AM |
#83 |
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Was bombing Hiroshima really needed? New research suggests it wasn't. |
bpilgrim |
Aug-06-05 10:54 AM |
#84 |
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Very informative. Very intriguing. But reality in Tokyo is meaningless. |
Bucky |
Aug-06-05 12:32 PM |
#118 |
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We set a precedent -- will we regret later? |
fortyfeetunder |
Aug-06-05 11:11 AM |
#89 |
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i believe the whole world will and has ever since |
bpilgrim |
Aug-06-05 11:25 AM |
#91 |
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No one seems to mention the killing of a teacher and students in |
hayu_lol |
Aug-06-05 11:57 AM |
#101 |
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Why was unconditional surrender so important ? |
Junkdrawer |
Aug-06-05 12:31 PM |
#117 |
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The condition the Japanese wanted was to keep the Emperor but |
neverforget |
Aug-06-05 02:49 PM |
#141 |
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the Japanese Emperor has always been a figure head, especially during WWII |
bpilgrim |
Aug-06-05 03:51 PM |
#149 |
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Bombs away! |
MrSlayer |
Aug-06-05 11:41 AM |
#93 |
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what an apt user name |
bpilgrim |
Aug-06-05 11:43 AM |
#94 |
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Nothing wrong with studying it. |
MrSlayer |
Aug-06-05 11:57 AM |
#100 |
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I would have bombed military targets, not civilans. |
McCamy Taylor |
Aug-06-05 11:45 AM |
#95 |
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We did. They were all intermingled. Couldn't avoid hitting civilians. |
TankLV |
Aug-06-05 12:14 PM |
#111 |
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You need to explain that comment a little better. |
Bucky |
Aug-06-05 12:29 PM |
#115 |
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I've read articles that Eisenhower threatened to use bomb in Korea if the |
FreeStateDemocrat |
Aug-06-05 12:02 PM |
#104 |
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After watching "the fog of war" |
Lannes |
Aug-06-05 12:11 PM |
#109 |
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I don't think it's possible to put yourself in the shoes of Truman |
paulk |
Aug-06-05 12:29 PM |
#116 |
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How many times do the Japanese have to surrender? |
Generic Other |
Aug-06-05 12:38 PM |
#119 |
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not really, Japan retained it visions of power |
idlisambar |
Aug-06-05 01:32 PM |
#127 |
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Interesting |
Walt Starr |
Aug-06-05 01:44 PM |
#128 |
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I think the lesson the world learned was to never use those terrible |
neverforget |
Aug-06-05 01:44 PM |
#129 |
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they sure are building plenty of em... and our current foreign policy |
bpilgrim |
Aug-06-05 01:50 PM |
#132 |
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This day is always a grim reminder |
Generic Other |
Aug-06-05 02:31 PM |
#138 |
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Just dropping in... |
darkism |
Aug-06-05 01:56 PM |
#134 |
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alright, I'm coming down on the side of "take conditional surrender" |
boddhi |
Aug-06-05 02:06 PM |
#135 |
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War is war |
Baclava |
Aug-06-05 02:17 PM |
#136 |
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then obviously, you would vote for accepting their 1 condition |
bpilgrim |
Aug-06-05 02:38 PM |
#139 |
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I blame the aliens for all wars |
Baclava |
Aug-06-05 02:57 PM |
#143 |
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honestly? I don't know. |
ulysses |
Aug-06-05 03:09 PM |
#144 |
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Thank you for trying to share truth and sanity today. |
Zhade |
Aug-06-05 03:11 PM |
#145 |
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We were reading the Japanese Diplomatic dispatches at the time |
neverforget |
Aug-06-05 03:52 PM |
#150 |
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all of our military leaders in theater at the time, disagree with you ... |
bpilgrim |
Aug-06-05 04:41 PM |
#155 |
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Had to |
Drewskie |
Aug-06-05 04:48 PM |
#156 |
| -
Locking.... |
Moderator |
Aug-06-05 05:46 PM |
#159 |
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