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Reply #39: People can make a lot more mistakes with electronic voting [View All]

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Home » Discuss » Archives » General Discussion (Through 2005) Donate to DU
Eric J in MN Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-03-05 06:01 PM
Response to Reply #33
39. People can make a lot more mistakes with electronic voting
Edited on Wed Aug-03-05 06:06 PM by Eric J in MN
machines or have the machine make more mistakes:

machine doesn't display all the races for that voter
voter clicks "Send Ballot" before voting in the races he or she wants to
voter presses Kerry, and machine records Bush

With a paper ballot, if the races aren't all there, the voter can say something before casting the vote.

Most people know how to fill in an oval on a piece of paper.

Problems are more likely on a machine they have never used before.

Eveyone should know to fill in one-oval per race.

However, the problem of pressing "Send Ballot" before voting in every race is a mistake almost anyone can make.

Also:

There are optical-scanners which can kick out a ballot if the voter voted in more than one race, to give him or her another try at filling out the ballot properly.

With regard to not filling out the oval all-the-way, or marking it with Xs, that is what hand-recounts are for.
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  -Why don't "we" build an 'open source' voting machine company?? Rosco T.  Aug-03-05 05:15 PM   #0 
  - Because paper ballots hand counted would be cheaper and more secure  libertypirate   Aug-03-05 05:15 PM   #1 
  - No arguement.. but people have 'machines in their mind'...  Rosco T.   Aug-03-05 05:17 PM   #2 
  - In the 2004 presidential primary, I voted on a plain piece of paper.  Eric J in MN   Aug-03-05 05:20 PM   #8 
  - You just don't get it...  Rosco T.   Aug-03-05 05:22 PM   #12 
     - OK, if people need automation, then how about  Eric J in MN   Aug-03-05 05:27 PM   #20 
     - what I propose would have that as an OPTION..  Rosco T.   Aug-03-05 05:30 PM   #23 
        - What is the point of electronic voting machines  Eric J in MN   Aug-03-05 05:36 PM   #28 
           - If you have a MACHINE print the ballot...  Rosco T.   Aug-03-05 05:46 PM   #33 
              - People can make a lot more mistakes with electronic voting  Eric J in MN   Aug-03-05 06:01 PM   #39 
                 - "Open" source would be a big step forward, but still has invisibility  Land Shark   Aug-04-05 07:28 PM   #104 
                    - Voting machines that aren't connected to the internet cannot get viruses.  Massacure   Aug-05-05 07:56 AM   #109 
     - Exactly!  merh   Aug-03-05 09:53 PM   #66 
  - Still depends on who is counting.  Tigress DEM   Aug-03-05 10:59 PM   #75 
  - Disagree  dhinojosa   Aug-03-05 05:19 PM   #5 
  - Wind? not if countd AT precincts. ballots never move  oscar111   Aug-03-05 05:29 PM   #22 
  - A couple of cans of gas, and a gun, and there goes those ballots.  dhinojosa   Aug-03-05 05:33 PM   #25 
  - ? a gun, and all databases go out the window  oscar111   Aug-03-05 05:37 PM   #29 
     - If after each vote it gets automatically wired out of the precinct?  dhinojosa   Aug-03-05 05:39 PM   #30 
        - elec. wire-out each vote:tricks abound there  oscar111   Aug-03-05 05:43 PM   #32 
  - How do you prevent ballot stuffing?  merh   Aug-03-05 09:54 PM   #67 
     - Each precinct watcher can have a stamp.  Festivito   Aug-04-05 05:46 AM   #94 
        - "a tedious review could begin"  merh   Aug-04-05 09:49 AM   #96 
           - Volunteers and paid volunteers.  Festivito   Aug-05-05 06:17 AM   #105 
              - Who funds the paid volunteers?  merh   Aug-05-05 09:14 AM   #110 
                 - I understand the concern when there is pay.  Festivito   Aug-05-05 04:48 PM   #112 
                    - Since you have been involved in overseeing elections, how easy  merh   Aug-05-05 04:58 PM   #113 
                       - My friend oversaw.  Festivito   Aug-05-05 07:23 PM   #117 
                          - And it was the "contenders" watchers that caused such a problem  merh   Aug-05-05 07:51 PM   #118 
                             - Not so much the watchers. Republican judges were the problem.  Festivito   Aug-05-05 11:38 PM   #119 
  - I am a software engineer who started out as an  libertypirate   Aug-03-05 06:56 PM   #41 
  - Do the freaken math.  yowzayowzayowza   Aug-03-05 07:32 PM   #42 
  - What is dangerous is the folks who haven't a clue what it takes  merh   Aug-03-05 08:59 PM   #53 
     - Exactly...  libertypirate   Aug-03-05 10:37 PM   #73 
        - Well, let's put it this way.  merh   Aug-03-05 11:25 PM   #79 
           - So how do we weed through who is going to do it right  libertypirate   Aug-04-05 06:31 PM   #102 
              - You don't necessarily.  yowzayowzayowza   Aug-05-05 07:56 AM   #108 
  - Now see, that is where you guys miss the practicalities of  merh   Aug-03-05 08:50 PM   #49 
  - What's the hurry?  A Simple Game   Aug-03-05 09:06 PM   #54 
     - How are you going to fund the recount?  merh   Aug-03-05 09:08 PM   #55 
        - There doesn't seem to be a problem  A Simple Game   Aug-03-05 09:29 PM   #60 
           - Canada's population compared to ours?  merh   Aug-03-05 09:47 PM   #65 
              - So California uses the same number of counters that  A Simple Game   Aug-03-05 10:03 PM   #70 
                 - Go back and what the footage from the Florida recounts.  merh   Aug-03-05 10:12 PM   #71 
                    - My saying give me a week was hyperbole.  A Simple Game   Aug-03-05 10:28 PM   #72 
                       - You must be living in another realm of reality.  merh   Aug-03-05 10:54 PM   #74 
                          - Ok, last one for the night.  A Simple Game   Aug-03-05 11:45 PM   #82 
                             - Excuse me - hand counts take longer than recounts.  merh   Aug-03-05 11:53 PM   #83 
                                - Take 10 deep breaths.  A Simple Game   Aug-04-05 12:22 AM   #84 
                                   - Again, your ignorance of election laws is showing.  merh   Aug-04-05 12:31 AM   #85 
                                      - Actually, In Washington state, a recount is a full recount of all ballots.  claudiajean   Aug-04-05 03:18 AM   #90 
                                         - Like you said, you live in a county with a small population.  merh   Aug-04-05 09:46 AM   #95 
  - Hand counts are not accurate. If you gave one person 1,000 ballots  Egalitariat   Aug-04-05 06:47 PM   #103 
  - I thought a bunch of geeks were already on it.  aquart   Aug-03-05 05:18 PM   #3 
  - Maybe we should hit Soros for a grant :)  Rosco T.   Aug-03-05 05:19 PM   #6 
  - I think we should get all the grants we could. Maybe we could be ..  Tiggeroshii   Aug-03-05 05:22 PM   #13 
  - Still, PAPER BALLOTS HAND COUNTED  oscar111   Aug-03-05 05:21 PM   #10 
     - If the CODE is open, and the voter has to approve the printed ballot...  Rosco T.   Aug-03-05 05:23 PM   #15 
     - Genius exists to surprise you with new tricks  oscar111   Aug-03-05 05:40 PM   #31 
     - it's a shell game  foo_bar   Aug-03-05 09:16 PM   #58 
     - The voter has to approve the printed ballot.  Pobeka   Aug-03-05 05:56 PM   #38 
     - I agree. With publicly-witnessed counting.  aquart   Aug-03-05 09:42 PM   #64 
        - That's how it's done in Spain.  July   Aug-05-05 07:43 AM   #107 
  - That's a great idea  carnie_sf   Aug-03-05 05:18 PM   #4 
  - You like java too eh...  dhinojosa   Aug-03-05 05:19 PM   #7 
  - Java & SQL.... no 'binary' code to hide in...  Rosco T.   Aug-03-05 05:20 PM   #9 
     - You are soooo correct....  dhinojosa   Aug-03-05 05:34 PM   #27 
        - that's what the third copy (machine audit) is for..  Rosco T.   Aug-03-05 05:47 PM   #34 
  - I think a nomination of this post is good. kickin'  Tiggeroshii   Aug-03-05 05:21 PM   #11 
  - It's the exisitng companies who have the contracts and lobbyists.  Eric J in MN   Aug-03-05 05:23 PM   #14 
  - Not gonna happen if they won't sell (and you think they would), a new..  Rosco T.   Aug-03-05 05:25 PM   #18 
     - Sequioa was for sale several months ago, and  Eric J in MN   Aug-03-05 05:31 PM   #24 
  - There's a project in the works.  skids   Aug-03-05 05:24 PM   #16 
  - I would provide my services as well  jsamuel   Aug-03-05 05:24 PM   #17 
  - Maybe it would be safer if, instead of printing, it would output  ArkDem   Aug-03-05 05:27 PM   #19 
  - Geeze.. why didn't someone tell me I misspelled source in the 1st message  Rosco T.   Aug-03-05 05:28 PM   #21 
  - Rosco, idea is good #2 choice if we cant get PAPR..CNTED PBHC  oscar111   Aug-03-05 05:34 PM   #26 
  - Logjam's can be broken with $$$  Rosco T.   Aug-03-05 05:48 PM   #35 
  - #1 Choice to GENERATE THE PAPER BALLOTS...  Rosco T.   Aug-03-05 05:50 PM   #37 
     - It's even better: Printer and Scanner MUST match... Automatic recount!  WhoWantsToBeOccupied   Aug-03-05 11:14 PM   #77 
  - Release early and often...  alcibiades_mystery   Aug-03-05 08:25 PM   #47 
  - There are Some open Source voting Projects in the works  mackdaddy   Aug-03-05 05:48 PM   #36 
  - Both of these companies are doing good work.  phiddle   Aug-03-05 09:32 PM   #61 
  - Drive hardware cost to $0 with KNOPPIX-style bootable CD  WhoWantsToBeOccupied   Aug-03-05 11:38 PM   #81 
  - Another possibility, using automated counting equipment.  Pobeka   Aug-03-05 06:02 PM   #40 
  - Already done in Australia  interupt   Aug-03-05 07:41 PM   #43 
  - I'm told by an Australian correspondent of mine that paper ballots--  eridani   Aug-03-05 08:15 PM   #45 
  - True  interupt   Aug-03-05 08:32 PM   #48 
  - Not in America  kster   Aug-04-05 01:57 AM   #87 
  - Give them companies one option  kster   Aug-03-05 08:15 PM   #44 
  - I like the idea.  impeachdubya   Aug-03-05 08:20 PM   #46 
  - there already is one:  garybeck   Aug-03-05 08:53 PM   #50 
  - Roscoe T, I like your thinking! Let's sell it to the country,  babylonsister   Aug-03-05 08:54 PM   #51 
  - absolutely  foo_bar   Aug-03-05 08:57 PM   #52 
  - YES! (Beats my donut eating contest idea I had)  O.M.B.inOhio   Aug-03-05 09:09 PM   #56 
  - The automated teller machine at my bank is made by Liebold...and I bet  grannylib   Aug-03-05 09:16 PM   #57 
  - another open source idea - voter registration analysis software  boddhi   Aug-03-05 09:21 PM   #59 
  - Good work, Roscoe! Nominated  Husb2Sparkly   Aug-03-05 09:33 PM   #62 
  - can it be battery operated????  MissWaverly   Aug-03-05 09:39 PM   #63 
  - Just stick them on a 60 minute UPS and 'power blackouts' no loger matter.  Rosco T.   Aug-03-05 11:25 PM   #78 
     - It has to be inside the machine  MissWaverly   Aug-04-05 05:08 PM   #101 
  - You need a buttload of money to  kenny blankenship   Aug-03-05 09:56 PM   #68 
  - you just have to underbid the competition (by a lot)  foo_bar   Aug-03-05 11:09 PM   #76 
     - if we had to, make it a $100 machine, lose money.. save democracy. n/m  Rosco T.   Aug-03-05 11:27 PM   #80 
  - Why not pursue something like the TRUVOTE SYSTEM OF ATHAN GIBBS?  Nothing Without Hope   Aug-03-05 10:03 PM   #69 
  - I don't like the under plexiglass idea.  Festivito   Aug-04-05 05:34 AM   #93 
  - How do you prove that the published source code is what actually runs on  satya   Aug-04-05 01:32 AM   #86 
  - Simply put.. MD5  Rosco T.   Aug-04-05 02:25 AM   #88 
     - Thanks for the explanation;brings back memories of writing code to compute  satya   Aug-04-05 03:05 AM   #89 
        - Real simple way to sum the machines... you don't...  Rosco T.   Aug-04-05 03:20 AM   #91 
  - Why is there no simple paper backup when machines fail, or  Festivito   Aug-04-05 05:22 AM   #92 
  - David Chaum's solution - "Votegrity" a possible solution.....  indigonation   Aug-04-05 12:31 PM   #97 
  - We also need to have our own cnn or better yet - take over an existing one  kerry-is-my-prez   Aug-04-05 01:54 PM   #98 
  - Sorry, Roscoe. We don't discuss solutions here at the DU  rucky   Aug-04-05 02:32 PM   #99 
  - we have  helderheid   Aug-04-05 02:36 PM   #100 
  - You managed to build a system, including monitor, for $300?  Mairead   Aug-05-05 06:55 AM   #106 
  - Not counting monitor... but I did just buy a Samsung 977 for $99. n/m  Rosco T.   Aug-05-05 05:05 PM   #114 
  - Some good ideas  wtmusic   Aug-05-05 09:43 AM   #111 
  - Bankrolls and MD5's...  Rosco T.   Aug-05-05 05:09 PM   #115 
  - Havent read all the posts..  Lannes   Aug-05-05 05:13 PM   #116 
 

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