Eric J in MN
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Wed Aug-03-05 06:01 PM
Response to Reply #33 |
| 39. People can make a lot more mistakes with electronic voting |
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Edited on Wed Aug-03-05 06:06 PM by Eric J in MN
machines or have the machine make more mistakes:
machine doesn't display all the races for that voter voter clicks "Send Ballot" before voting in the races he or she wants to voter presses Kerry, and machine records Bush
With a paper ballot, if the races aren't all there, the voter can say something before casting the vote.
Most people know how to fill in an oval on a piece of paper.
Problems are more likely on a machine they have never used before.
Eveyone should know to fill in one-oval per race.
However, the problem of pressing "Send Ballot" before voting in every race is a mistake almost anyone can make.
Also:
There are optical-scanners which can kick out a ballot if the voter voted in more than one race, to give him or her another try at filling out the ballot properly.
With regard to not filling out the oval all-the-way, or marking it with Xs, that is what hand-recounts are for.
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| -Why don't "we" build an 'open source' voting machine company?? |
Rosco T. |
Aug-03-05 05:15 PM |
#0 |
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Because paper ballots hand counted would be cheaper and more secure |
libertypirate |
Aug-03-05 05:15 PM |
#1 |
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No arguement.. but people have 'machines in their mind'... |
Rosco T. |
Aug-03-05 05:17 PM |
#2 |
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In the 2004 presidential primary, I voted on a plain piece of paper. |
Eric J in MN |
Aug-03-05 05:20 PM |
#8 |
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You just don't get it... |
Rosco T. |
Aug-03-05 05:22 PM |
#12 |
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OK, if people need automation, then how about |
Eric J in MN |
Aug-03-05 05:27 PM |
#20 |
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what I propose would have that as an OPTION.. |
Rosco T. |
Aug-03-05 05:30 PM |
#23 |
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What is the point of electronic voting machines |
Eric J in MN |
Aug-03-05 05:36 PM |
#28 |
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If you have a MACHINE print the ballot... |
Rosco T. |
Aug-03-05 05:46 PM |
#33 |
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People can make a lot more mistakes with electronic voting |
Eric J in MN |
Aug-03-05 06:01 PM |
#39 |
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"Open" source would be a big step forward, but still has invisibility |
Land Shark |
Aug-04-05 07:28 PM |
#104 |
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Voting machines that aren't connected to the internet cannot get viruses. |
Massacure |
Aug-05-05 07:56 AM |
#109 |
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Exactly! |
merh |
Aug-03-05 09:53 PM |
#66 |
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Still depends on who is counting. |
Tigress DEM |
Aug-03-05 10:59 PM |
#75 |
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Disagree |
dhinojosa |
Aug-03-05 05:19 PM |
#5 |
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Wind? not if countd AT precincts. ballots never move |
oscar111 |
Aug-03-05 05:29 PM |
#22 |
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A couple of cans of gas, and a gun, and there goes those ballots. |
dhinojosa |
Aug-03-05 05:33 PM |
#25 |
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? a gun, and all databases go out the window |
oscar111 |
Aug-03-05 05:37 PM |
#29 |
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If after each vote it gets automatically wired out of the precinct? |
dhinojosa |
Aug-03-05 05:39 PM |
#30 |
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elec. wire-out each vote:tricks abound there |
oscar111 |
Aug-03-05 05:43 PM |
#32 |
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How do you prevent ballot stuffing? |
merh |
Aug-03-05 09:54 PM |
#67 |
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Each precinct watcher can have a stamp. |
Festivito |
Aug-04-05 05:46 AM |
#94 |
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"a tedious review could begin" |
merh |
Aug-04-05 09:49 AM |
#96 |
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Volunteers and paid volunteers. |
Festivito |
Aug-05-05 06:17 AM |
#105 |
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Who funds the paid volunteers? |
merh |
Aug-05-05 09:14 AM |
#110 |
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I understand the concern when there is pay. |
Festivito |
Aug-05-05 04:48 PM |
#112 |
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Since you have been involved in overseeing elections, how easy |
merh |
Aug-05-05 04:58 PM |
#113 |
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My friend oversaw. |
Festivito |
Aug-05-05 07:23 PM |
#117 |
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And it was the "contenders" watchers that caused such a problem |
merh |
Aug-05-05 07:51 PM |
#118 |
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Not so much the watchers. Republican judges were the problem. |
Festivito |
Aug-05-05 11:38 PM |
#119 |
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I am a software engineer who started out as an |
libertypirate |
Aug-03-05 06:56 PM |
#41 |
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Do the freaken math. |
yowzayowzayowza |
Aug-03-05 07:32 PM |
#42 |
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What is dangerous is the folks who haven't a clue what it takes |
merh |
Aug-03-05 08:59 PM |
#53 |
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Exactly... |
libertypirate |
Aug-03-05 10:37 PM |
#73 |
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Well, let's put it this way. |
merh |
Aug-03-05 11:25 PM |
#79 |
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So how do we weed through who is going to do it right |
libertypirate |
Aug-04-05 06:31 PM |
#102 |
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You don't necessarily. |
yowzayowzayowza |
Aug-05-05 07:56 AM |
#108 |
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Now see, that is where you guys miss the practicalities of |
merh |
Aug-03-05 08:50 PM |
#49 |
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What's the hurry? |
A Simple Game |
Aug-03-05 09:06 PM |
#54 |
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How are you going to fund the recount? |
merh |
Aug-03-05 09:08 PM |
#55 |
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There doesn't seem to be a problem |
A Simple Game |
Aug-03-05 09:29 PM |
#60 |
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Canada's population compared to ours? |
merh |
Aug-03-05 09:47 PM |
#65 |
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So California uses the same number of counters that |
A Simple Game |
Aug-03-05 10:03 PM |
#70 |
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Go back and what the footage from the Florida recounts. |
merh |
Aug-03-05 10:12 PM |
#71 |
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My saying give me a week was hyperbole. |
A Simple Game |
Aug-03-05 10:28 PM |
#72 |
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You must be living in another realm of reality. |
merh |
Aug-03-05 10:54 PM |
#74 |
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Ok, last one for the night. |
A Simple Game |
Aug-03-05 11:45 PM |
#82 |
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Excuse me - hand counts take longer than recounts. |
merh |
Aug-03-05 11:53 PM |
#83 |
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Take 10 deep breaths. |
A Simple Game |
Aug-04-05 12:22 AM |
#84 |
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Again, your ignorance of election laws is showing. |
merh |
Aug-04-05 12:31 AM |
#85 |
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Actually, In Washington state, a recount is a full recount of all ballots. |
claudiajean |
Aug-04-05 03:18 AM |
#90 |
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Like you said, you live in a county with a small population. |
merh |
Aug-04-05 09:46 AM |
#95 |
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Hand counts are not accurate. If you gave one person 1,000 ballots |
Egalitariat |
Aug-04-05 06:47 PM |
#103 |
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I thought a bunch of geeks were already on it. |
aquart |
Aug-03-05 05:18 PM |
#3 |
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Maybe we should hit Soros for a grant :) |
Rosco T. |
Aug-03-05 05:19 PM |
#6 |
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I think we should get all the grants we could. Maybe we could be .. |
Tiggeroshii |
Aug-03-05 05:22 PM |
#13 |
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Still, PAPER BALLOTS HAND COUNTED |
oscar111 |
Aug-03-05 05:21 PM |
#10 |
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If the CODE is open, and the voter has to approve the printed ballot... |
Rosco T. |
Aug-03-05 05:23 PM |
#15 |
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Genius exists to surprise you with new tricks |
oscar111 |
Aug-03-05 05:40 PM |
#31 |
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it's a shell game |
foo_bar |
Aug-03-05 09:16 PM |
#58 |
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The voter has to approve the printed ballot. |
Pobeka |
Aug-03-05 05:56 PM |
#38 |
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I agree. With publicly-witnessed counting. |
aquart |
Aug-03-05 09:42 PM |
#64 |
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That's how it's done in Spain. |
July |
Aug-05-05 07:43 AM |
#107 |
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That's a great idea |
carnie_sf |
Aug-03-05 05:18 PM |
#4 |
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You like java too eh... |
dhinojosa |
Aug-03-05 05:19 PM |
#7 |
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Java & SQL.... no 'binary' code to hide in... |
Rosco T. |
Aug-03-05 05:20 PM |
#9 |
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You are soooo correct.... |
dhinojosa |
Aug-03-05 05:34 PM |
#27 |
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that's what the third copy (machine audit) is for.. |
Rosco T. |
Aug-03-05 05:47 PM |
#34 |
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I think a nomination of this post is good. kickin' |
Tiggeroshii |
Aug-03-05 05:21 PM |
#11 |
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It's the exisitng companies who have the contracts and lobbyists. |
Eric J in MN |
Aug-03-05 05:23 PM |
#14 |
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Not gonna happen if they won't sell (and you think they would), a new.. |
Rosco T. |
Aug-03-05 05:25 PM |
#18 |
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Sequioa was for sale several months ago, and |
Eric J in MN |
Aug-03-05 05:31 PM |
#24 |
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There's a project in the works. |
skids |
Aug-03-05 05:24 PM |
#16 |
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I would provide my services as well |
jsamuel |
Aug-03-05 05:24 PM |
#17 |
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Maybe it would be safer if, instead of printing, it would output |
ArkDem |
Aug-03-05 05:27 PM |
#19 |
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Geeze.. why didn't someone tell me I misspelled source in the 1st message |
Rosco T. |
Aug-03-05 05:28 PM |
#21 |
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Rosco, idea is good #2 choice if we cant get PAPR..CNTED PBHC |
oscar111 |
Aug-03-05 05:34 PM |
#26 |
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Logjam's can be broken with $$$ |
Rosco T. |
Aug-03-05 05:48 PM |
#35 |
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#1 Choice to GENERATE THE PAPER BALLOTS... |
Rosco T. |
Aug-03-05 05:50 PM |
#37 |
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It's even better: Printer and Scanner MUST match... Automatic recount! |
WhoWantsToBeOccupied |
Aug-03-05 11:14 PM |
#77 |
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Release early and often... |
alcibiades_mystery |
Aug-03-05 08:25 PM |
#47 |
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There are Some open Source voting Projects in the works |
mackdaddy |
Aug-03-05 05:48 PM |
#36 |
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Both of these companies are doing good work. |
phiddle |
Aug-03-05 09:32 PM |
#61 |
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Drive hardware cost to $0 with KNOPPIX-style bootable CD |
WhoWantsToBeOccupied |
Aug-03-05 11:38 PM |
#81 |
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Another possibility, using automated counting equipment. |
Pobeka |
Aug-03-05 06:02 PM |
#40 |
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Already done in Australia |
interupt |
Aug-03-05 07:41 PM |
#43 |
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I'm told by an Australian correspondent of mine that paper ballots-- |
eridani |
Aug-03-05 08:15 PM |
#45 |
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True |
interupt |
Aug-03-05 08:32 PM |
#48 |
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Not in America |
kster |
Aug-04-05 01:57 AM |
#87 |
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Give them companies one option |
kster |
Aug-03-05 08:15 PM |
#44 |
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I like the idea. |
impeachdubya |
Aug-03-05 08:20 PM |
#46 |
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there already is one: |
garybeck |
Aug-03-05 08:53 PM |
#50 |
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Roscoe T, I like your thinking! Let's sell it to the country, |
babylonsister |
Aug-03-05 08:54 PM |
#51 |
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absolutely |
foo_bar |
Aug-03-05 08:57 PM |
#52 |
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YES! (Beats my donut eating contest idea I had) |
O.M.B.inOhio |
Aug-03-05 09:09 PM |
#56 |
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The automated teller machine at my bank is made by Liebold...and I bet |
grannylib |
Aug-03-05 09:16 PM |
#57 |
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another open source idea - voter registration analysis software |
boddhi |
Aug-03-05 09:21 PM |
#59 |
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Good work, Roscoe! Nominated |
Husb2Sparkly |
Aug-03-05 09:33 PM |
#62 |
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can it be battery operated???? |
MissWaverly |
Aug-03-05 09:39 PM |
#63 |
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Just stick them on a 60 minute UPS and 'power blackouts' no loger matter. |
Rosco T. |
Aug-03-05 11:25 PM |
#78 |
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It has to be inside the machine |
MissWaverly |
Aug-04-05 05:08 PM |
#101 |
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You need a buttload of money to |
kenny blankenship |
Aug-03-05 09:56 PM |
#68 |
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you just have to underbid the competition (by a lot) |
foo_bar |
Aug-03-05 11:09 PM |
#76 |
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if we had to, make it a $100 machine, lose money.. save democracy. n/m |
Rosco T. |
Aug-03-05 11:27 PM |
#80 |
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Why not pursue something like the TRUVOTE SYSTEM OF ATHAN GIBBS? |
Nothing Without Hope |
Aug-03-05 10:03 PM |
#69 |
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I don't like the under plexiglass idea. |
Festivito |
Aug-04-05 05:34 AM |
#93 |
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How do you prove that the published source code is what actually runs on |
satya |
Aug-04-05 01:32 AM |
#86 |
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Simply put.. MD5 |
Rosco T. |
Aug-04-05 02:25 AM |
#88 |
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Thanks for the explanation;brings back memories of writing code to compute |
satya |
Aug-04-05 03:05 AM |
#89 |
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Real simple way to sum the machines... you don't... |
Rosco T. |
Aug-04-05 03:20 AM |
#91 |
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Why is there no simple paper backup when machines fail, or |
Festivito |
Aug-04-05 05:22 AM |
#92 |
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David Chaum's solution - "Votegrity" a possible solution..... |
indigonation |
Aug-04-05 12:31 PM |
#97 |
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We also need to have our own cnn or better yet - take over an existing one |
kerry-is-my-prez |
Aug-04-05 01:54 PM |
#98 |
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Sorry, Roscoe. We don't discuss solutions here at the DU |
rucky |
Aug-04-05 02:32 PM |
#99 |
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we have |
helderheid |
Aug-04-05 02:36 PM |
#100 |
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You managed to build a system, including monitor, for $300? |
Mairead |
Aug-05-05 06:55 AM |
#106 |
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Not counting monitor... but I did just buy a Samsung 977 for $99. n/m |
Rosco T. |
Aug-05-05 05:05 PM |
#114 |
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Some good ideas |
wtmusic |
Aug-05-05 09:43 AM |
#111 |
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Bankrolls and MD5's... |
Rosco T. |
Aug-05-05 05:09 PM |
#115 |
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Havent read all the posts.. |
Lannes |
Aug-05-05 05:13 PM |
#116 |