Emendator
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Tue Aug-02-05 02:53 PM
Response to Reply #110 |
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is not self government. With the elimination of private property, you destroy self government. Even in a democracy, the government isn't "us". You advocate an elite trying to organize society according to its own particular whims. That is tyranny. You're out to lunch and those who advocate your views are so numerically insignificant, that it's not even worth a discussion. The matter has been settled historically. China and all of the other countries successfully moving out of the third world are not doing what you advocate. They're going the other way. There's no sense in rehashing the debate that you had below with Walt Starr. Good day.
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| -Is it time to nationalize certain industries? |
KansDem |
Aug-02-05 09:34 AM |
#0 |
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I think all industries should be nationalized. |
K-W |
Aug-02-05 09:43 AM |
#1 |
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Yeah, this has worked so well in the nations that tried it. |
eallen |
Aug-02-05 09:51 AM |
#3 |
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Nobody wants your sympathy. |
K-W |
Aug-02-05 10:08 AM |
#6 |
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Touche` |
Blue State Native |
Aug-02-05 10:11 AM |
#7 |
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You're the one standing in the way of progress. |
eallen |
Aug-02-05 10:16 AM |
#9 |
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The reason the right is able to smear the left |
K-W |
Aug-02-05 10:26 AM |
#13 |
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Democratic-republican governance doesn't require destroying capitalism. |
eallen |
Aug-02-05 10:46 AM |
#14 |
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Huh? |
K-W |
Aug-02-05 11:00 AM |
#18 |
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Name the western nations that don't have capitalist economies. |
eallen |
Aug-02-05 11:06 AM |
#21 |
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There are no pure capitalist economies. |
K-W |
Aug-02-05 11:16 AM |
#26 |
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Cuba is one of the few economies that has nationalized most business. |
eallen |
Aug-02-05 11:40 AM |
#44 |
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So you want to generalize all nationalism together. |
K-W |
Aug-02-05 11:49 AM |
#50 |
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but what happens when the national systems we currently have |
northzax |
Aug-02-05 01:54 PM |
#95 |
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The nation isnt the federal government, the nation is we the people. |
K-W |
Aug-02-05 02:01 PM |
#97 |
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still, someone actually runs it, right? |
northzax |
Aug-02-05 02:05 PM |
#99 |
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I dont know that one person should run anything. |
K-W |
Aug-02-05 02:16 PM |
#102 |
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I have to say I am confused.. |
KC_25 |
Aug-02-05 03:49 PM |
#128 |
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Indeed. |
K-W |
Aug-02-05 04:02 PM |
#130 |
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f you say so..but |
KC_25 |
Aug-02-05 05:27 PM |
#134 |
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You are missing the point. |
K-W |
Aug-02-05 06:38 PM |
#141 |
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It may well lay the golden egg |
julianer |
Aug-02-05 04:09 PM |
#132 |
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Whether there is a currently |
julianer |
Aug-02-05 11:08 AM |
#23 |
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eallen is appealing to history, not theory |
leftofthedial |
Aug-02-05 11:06 AM |
#20 |
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Yep. Capitalism is dynamic & constantly improving its business processes. |
eallen |
Aug-02-05 11:16 AM |
#25 |
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bullshit. capitalism is constantly improving only one thing |
leftofthedial |
Aug-02-05 11:20 AM |
#27 |
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Ah. That must explain why things have changed so little. |
eallen |
Aug-02-05 11:43 AM |
#45 |
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a couple of depressions every century |
leftofthedial |
Aug-02-05 05:17 PM |
#133 |
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Liberalism does not mean economic control by the wealthy. |
K-W |
Aug-02-05 11:25 AM |
#31 |
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And the liberal nations without a capitalist economy are...? |
eallen |
Aug-02-05 11:46 AM |
#48 |
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You are using the term "liberal" in a way that spits in history's face. |
K-W |
Aug-02-05 11:53 AM |
#51 |
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Nay. I use it in tradition of Locke, Jefferson, Dewey, and Rawls. |
eallen |
Aug-02-05 12:21 PM |
#61 |
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I have no interest in playing the label game. |
K-W |
Aug-02-05 12:30 PM |
#63 |
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That means most liberals in modern history weren't liberal in your view. |
eallen |
Aug-02-05 12:46 PM |
#70 |
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You think those people supported the inequality of wealth? |
K-W |
Aug-02-05 12:50 PM |
#73 |
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Capitalism guarantees inequality of wealth. |
eallen |
Aug-02-05 01:05 PM |
#80 |
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Its funny you should mention logic. |
K-W |
Aug-02-05 01:13 PM |
#86 |
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My claims are quite different from what you try to make them. |
eallen |
Aug-02-05 01:26 PM |
#89 |
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I guess you are right, you never even tried to prove your claims. |
K-W |
Aug-02-05 01:40 PM |
#91 |
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Which of those liberals did not support capitalism? |
eallen |
Aug-02-05 02:12 PM |
#100 |
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You have provided no evidence that they support it. |
K-W |
Aug-02-05 02:23 PM |
#104 |
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Capitalism is codified |
sintax |
Aug-02-05 02:17 PM |
#103 |
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You set up a strawman argument |
Selatius |
Aug-02-05 11:47 AM |
#49 |
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The libertarian socialists and right-wing libertarian share a fallacy. |
eallen |
Aug-02-05 12:14 PM |
#59 |
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It's not a fallacy, at least in my opinion |
Selatius |
Aug-02-05 01:47 PM |
#92 |
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What is the difference between you and the right-wing anarchist? |
eallen |
Aug-02-05 02:24 PM |
#105 |
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The issue is education |
Selatius |
Aug-02-05 08:05 PM |
#143 |
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"Government" and "people" are different things... |
Darranar |
Aug-02-05 01:00 PM |
#79 |
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I generally support what you say |
Selatius |
Aug-02-05 01:48 PM |
#93 |
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We have a 100% managed economy. |
K-W |
Aug-02-05 11:35 AM |
#39 |
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as a whole it is not managed |
leftofthedial |
Aug-02-05 05:30 PM |
#135 |
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Yes it is. |
K-W |
Aug-02-05 06:48 PM |
#142 |
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I agree, Democratise the Economy. Right now a super-minority controls... |
JanMichael |
Aug-02-05 11:03 AM |
#19 |
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Ridiculous |
Emendator |
Aug-02-05 02:24 PM |
#106 |
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You think self government is rediculous? EOM |
K-W |
Aug-02-05 02:37 PM |
#110 |
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What you advocate |
Emendator |
Aug-02-05 02:53 PM |
#114 |
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Actually self government is the only thing I have advocated. |
K-W |
Aug-02-05 02:56 PM |
#115 |
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So, you want Bush and Congress in charge of your automobile insurance? |
Freddie Stubbs |
Aug-02-05 09:49 AM |
#2 |
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No, I want the auto insurance agent who tried to convince me... |
KansDem |
Aug-02-05 09:58 AM |
#4 |
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You think that Bush and Congress would give you a more fair deal? |
Freddie Stubbs |
Aug-02-05 12:03 PM |
#55 |
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Bush and Congress won't give me a more fair deal... |
KansDem |
Aug-02-05 12:58 PM |
#78 |
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So, nationalizing the industry would not make things better |
Freddie Stubbs |
Aug-02-05 01:10 PM |
#84 |
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Sure, once we got corporate influence out of government... |
KansDem |
Aug-02-05 01:25 PM |
#88 |
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Bush will be in charge for the next 3 1/2 years |
Freddie Stubbs |
Aug-02-05 01:51 PM |
#94 |
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Not if democratic principles are adhered to... |
KansDem |
Aug-02-05 02:26 PM |
#107 |
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I don't think you'll have to worry about Bush nationalizing anything... |
marmar |
Aug-02-05 09:59 AM |
#5 |
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All corporations are supposed to be public corporations. |
K-W |
Aug-02-05 10:17 AM |
#10 |
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I agree with Freddie |
Thrasybulus |
Aug-02-05 10:18 AM |
#11 |
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I can't speak for the OP... |
Telly Savalas |
Aug-02-05 03:44 PM |
#127 |
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Only the bankrupt or corrupt ones. Oops, that's all of them. lol |
Joanne98 |
Aug-02-05 10:16 AM |
#8 |
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The question is - under what form? |
julianer |
Aug-02-05 10:21 AM |
#12 |
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"In short they should be democratic servants of the people." |
KansDem |
Aug-02-05 10:48 AM |
#15 |
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Auto insurance is a necessity, but autos are not? |
eallen |
Aug-02-05 10:58 AM |
#16 |
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I lived in Europe for a few months... |
KansDem |
Aug-02-05 12:50 PM |
#74 |
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Why shouldn't everyone decide |
julianer |
Aug-02-05 10:58 AM |
#17 |
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In a word, no. |
Walt Starr |
Aug-02-05 11:07 AM |
#22 |
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Thanks for adding your voice of reason. |
rockymountaindem |
Aug-02-05 11:16 AM |
#24 |
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Capitalism works? |
julianer |
Aug-02-05 11:23 AM |
#29 |
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Hmmmm, Soviet Russia fell iafter decades of communist rule |
Walt Starr |
Aug-02-05 11:26 AM |
#34 |
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It's worked splendidly in Haiti and a whole lot of other places like... |
JanMichael |
Aug-02-05 12:32 PM |
#65 |
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Did you bother to read |
julianer |
Aug-02-05 03:57 PM |
#129 |
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Yeah,it's working out great. |
Algorem |
Aug-02-05 11:26 AM |
#33 |
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It sure is, our capitalist system for the first time in history |
Walt Starr |
Aug-02-05 11:27 AM |
#35 |
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MMMM!Kool Aid! |
Algorem |
Aug-02-05 11:36 AM |
#40 |
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Sounds to me like you're sure drinking it. |
Walt Starr |
Aug-02-05 11:38 AM |
#42 |
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Walt, all of your posts here are based on vast oversimplifications |
K-W |
Aug-02-05 11:32 AM |
#36 |
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Okay, name an industry that would be better served by the government |
Walt Starr |
Aug-02-05 11:37 AM |
#41 |
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You are still just making broad generalizations. EOM |
K-W |
Aug-02-05 11:45 AM |
#46 |
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Answer the question. n/t |
Walt Starr |
Aug-02-05 12:21 PM |
#60 |
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Give me a question that isnt based on broad generlizations. EOM |
K-W |
Aug-02-05 12:32 PM |
#64 |
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can you one industry that can be run better by the government, and if so |
Walt Starr |
Aug-02-05 12:38 PM |
#67 |
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That is the same question. |
K-W |
Aug-02-05 12:42 PM |
#69 |
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Oh, I getcha |
Walt Starr |
Aug-02-05 12:49 PM |
#72 |
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No, I cant answer a meaningless question. |
K-W |
Aug-02-05 12:52 PM |
#75 |
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WTF was meaningless about it? |
Walt Starr |
Aug-02-05 12:56 PM |
#77 |
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As I already explained, it was based on generalizations |
K-W |
Aug-02-05 01:07 PM |
#82 |
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Then the discussion ends here |
Walt Starr |
Aug-02-05 01:08 PM |
#83 |
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So you are only capable of discussing broad generalizations? |
K-W |
Aug-02-05 01:15 PM |
#87 |
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Numerous public utilities have been successfully government run |
wuushew |
Aug-02-05 05:58 PM |
#139 |
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wow, what a thoughtful and reasoned response.... |
antfarm |
Aug-02-05 12:25 PM |
#62 |
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Last time I checked, |
K-W |
Aug-02-05 12:34 PM |
#66 |
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A couple |
idlisambar |
Aug-02-05 12:38 PM |
#68 |
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I would maintain that an increased competiveness in both |
Walt Starr |
Aug-02-05 01:06 PM |
#81 |
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on what basis |
idlisambar |
Aug-02-05 01:27 PM |
#90 |
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I'll quibble there |
northzax |
Aug-02-05 02:02 PM |
#98 |
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Sorry but email delivery was accomplished by the federal govt with YOUR |
nothingshocksmeanymore |
Aug-02-05 05:33 PM |
#137 |
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Sorry but email delivery was accomplished by the federal govt with YOUR |
nothingshocksmeanymore |
Aug-02-05 05:33 PM |
#138 |
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I always thought extraction industries, and that includes oil, should |
Cleita |
Aug-02-05 11:22 AM |
#28 |
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nationalize the housing stock and farms |
Mr.Green93 |
Aug-02-05 11:25 AM |
#30 |
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Yes, Including Airlines |
cryingshame |
Aug-02-05 11:26 AM |
#32 |
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I think it's long past time. |
redqueen |
Aug-02-05 11:34 AM |
#37 |
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look at the countries which have tried this |
bigtree |
Aug-02-05 11:35 AM |
#38 |
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To speak of giving republicans heartburn... |
tokenlib |
Aug-02-05 11:40 AM |
#43 |
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Middle ground. |
iconoclastNYC |
Aug-02-05 11:45 AM |
#47 |
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Place industry under control of a corrupt government? How would that help? |
rman |
Aug-02-05 11:56 AM |
#52 |
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Compared to corporations, |
K-W |
Aug-02-05 12:00 PM |
#53 |
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You've got to be kidding. |
rman |
Aug-02-05 12:04 PM |
#56 |
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Umm. |
K-W |
Aug-02-05 12:10 PM |
#58 |
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You are right in principal; corporations are completely undemocratic |
rman |
Aug-02-05 12:48 PM |
#71 |
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there are many corporations |
northzax |
Aug-02-05 02:14 PM |
#101 |
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Wow. |
K-W |
Aug-02-05 02:34 PM |
#109 |
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so anyone who owns stock is a plutocrat? |
northzax |
Aug-02-05 02:44 PM |
#112 |
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I think you know full well who the plutocrats are. |
K-W |
Aug-02-05 02:47 PM |
#113 |
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of course not |
northzax |
Aug-02-05 02:58 PM |
#116 |
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So in your reality corporate america is controlled by workers? |
K-W |
Aug-02-05 03:01 PM |
#117 |
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no, it's controlled, for the most part |
northzax |
Aug-02-05 03:24 PM |
#119 |
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So you oppose democracy... |
K-W |
Aug-02-05 03:29 PM |
#121 |
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no, I am arguing for representative democracy |
northzax |
Aug-02-05 03:40 PM |
#126 |
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It looked to me like you were arguing for corporate control. |
K-W |
Aug-02-05 04:03 PM |
#131 |
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Obviously. n/t |
Zorra |
Aug-02-05 12:00 PM |
#54 |
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Yes |
The Revolution |
Aug-02-05 12:07 PM |
#57 |
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It's past time to nationalize the defense industry |
jmowreader |
Aug-02-05 12:54 PM |
#76 |
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Sure, let's let the government run everything! |
Redstone |
Aug-02-05 01:10 PM |
#85 |
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How about us BE the Governement and the Governement BE us? |
JanMichael |
Aug-02-05 01:54 PM |
#96 |
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what's your point? |
idlisambar |
Aug-02-05 03:25 PM |
#120 |
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Energy should be nationalized nt |
TWiley |
Aug-02-05 02:28 PM |
#108 |
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I'd agree with health insurance, medical care, and utilities. |
livinginphotographs |
Aug-02-05 02:40 PM |
#111 |
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Road Construction |
SlipperySlope |
Aug-02-05 03:08 PM |
#118 |
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Since roads are publicly funded |
djohnson |
Aug-02-05 03:33 PM |
#123 |
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No - a lot of construction is done by private contractors. |
SlipperySlope |
Aug-02-05 03:38 PM |
#125 |
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Healthcare definitely |
djohnson |
Aug-02-05 03:31 PM |
#122 |
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Deregulation has been a big source of our problems |
Lannes |
Aug-02-05 03:36 PM |
#124 |
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Capitalism and "free" markets are to economies |
leftofthedial |
Aug-02-05 05:31 PM |
#136 |
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Nationalize???? |
whosinpower |
Aug-02-05 06:08 PM |
#140 |
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Just a note on your higher taxes |
djohnson |
Aug-03-05 09:10 AM |
#144 |
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