You are viewing an obsolete version of the DU website which is no longer supported by the Administrators. Visit The New DU.
Democratic Underground Latest Greatest Lobby Journals Search Options Help Login
Google

Reply #19: Welcome to DU, Vickitulsa! It isn't over yet, so we don't yet face the [View All]

Printer-friendly format Printer-friendly format
Printer-friendly format Email this thread to a friend
Printer-friendly format Bookmark this thread
This topic is archived.
Home » Discuss » Archives » General Discussion (Through 2005) Donate to DU
Peace Patriot Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-17-05 04:07 AM
Response to Reply #2
19. Welcome to DU, Vickitulsa! It isn't over yet, so we don't yet face the
decision of whether to be magnanimous or not. But it's interesting that I was thinking today: We need a national TRUTH AND RECONCILIATION committee, like they did in South Africa--to heal the wounds of decades of "apartheid," and to provide forgiveness for those willing to admit their crimes. I've always thought that idea was brilliant! What an extraordinary thing for a society to do--not to seek vengeance and retribution, but to seek truth and forgiveness.

I think we also need to realize--and there is simply overwhelming evidence for this--that the majority of Americans are progressive, peaceful, tolerant, justice-loving, lawful, cooperative and generous, and that the Bushites DO NOT REPRESENT THE MAJORITY OF AMERICANS.

I could rattle off an armload of statistics on this, but I will just cite one, my favorite: 63% of Americans oppose torture UNDER ANY CIRCUMSTANCES. That's the America I know and love--a people who are not easily scared and not easily fooled, and who stick to democratic principles and lawful procedures even in the face of non-stop fear-mongering.

Okay, I will cite one more: 58% of the American people opposed the Iraq war BEFORE THE INVASION! --that is, before all the lies got exposed. I will never forget that stat. (About half opposed the war outright, and half would only approve it if it were a UN operation.)

These people did not re-elect George Bush. Diebold and ES&S did so, with their secret, proprietary programming code in the electronic voting machines, owned and controlled by Bushites. So things are not right. They are very, very not right. This government never had "consent of the governed," and doesn't have it now.

It is not going to be easy to turn this around. The Bushites are desperate to keep control--because they are the filthiest crew who ever ran a government and they are guilty of terrible crimes. Their theft of the election is a measure of their desperation--as was their outing of CIA agent Valerie Plame. They have caused deaths (over 100,000 in Iraq alone), and have ordered deaths and torture; they have stolen billions and billions of dollars; they have run illicit WMDs around the world; and have stoked "terrorism" in others and have committed it themselves. They fear the ire of the American people--and the inevitability of justice--if they should ever lose control of the levers of power.

This is a very dangerous situation, and the crisis in our government is far from over.

And if we are able to restore democracy here, it is not going to be easy to learn from this experience and to create a better country from it.

But there is one thing that I learned on November 2, 2004, and that is to have faith in the people of this country. I saw what they did on that day. They rose up! They stood in ten hour lives to vote! They were determined to oust this bunch of liars and criminals. And I know that a whole bunch of Republicans were also voting to oust Bush. And all of our votes got stolen that day. We were disenfranchised--and that is not the fault of the voters, but of the political leaders who let it happen.

It is we, the people, however, who have to fix it. Our leaders are not going to. And it's very simple, really: Get rid of these Bushite election machine companies NOW! What business do they have counting all our votes in secret? That's ridiculous! Paper ballots/ hand counts, or, open source code machines with paper ballot backup, and strict auditing and security.

And we have to get this done at the state/local level, where the power over election systems still resides, and where ordinary people still have some say. The movement for honest, transparent elections is happening. Join up with whatever local group is working on it, and help out. It's a peoples' movement. It's real. And it's the only way that we can recover our right to vote, and restore order in this land.

Then...THEN we can decide about magnanimity, when this nutcase rightwing minority that is destroying our country, and threatening worldwide holocaust, has been removed from power. I am wholeheartedly in favor of Truth and Reconciliation, once democracy has been restored.

Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
  -Genesis of an American Gestapo - Must Read G2099  Jul-16-05 05:43 AM   #0 
  - we already knew that  wli   Jul-16-05 05:49 AM   #1 
  - It's hard to disagree with such a premise.  vickitulsa   Jul-16-05 06:16 AM   #2 
  - I couldn't have said it any better!  nathan hale   Jul-16-05 06:28 AM   #3 
  - Hi vickietulsa!!  newyawker99   Jul-16-05 09:35 AM   #5 
  - exploitability  wli   Jul-16-05 02:15 PM   #6 
  - Don't bet your life on this!  burrowowl   Jul-17-05 12:48 AM   #15 
  - Welcome to DU, Vickitulsa! It isn't over yet, so we don't yet face the  Peace Patriot   Jul-17-05 04:07 AM   #19 
     - Right on!  Viva_La_Revolution   Jul-17-05 10:05 AM   #34 
  - "BRING EM ON" shouted the AWOL CHIMPANZEE  saigon68   Jul-17-05 04:28 AM   #20 
  - it is so very necessary  no_to_war_economy   Jul-16-05 07:29 AM   #4 
  - Thanks & Rec more people need to know this  LibertyorDeath   Jul-16-05 02:46 PM   #7 
  - Thanks for the recommendation  G2099   Jul-16-05 09:58 PM   #8 
  - Deja vu - seen this?  cyberpj   Jul-18-05 09:03 AM   #52 
  - The authors should know about oppression--that website  geek tragedy   Jul-16-05 10:08 PM   #9 
  - Are you saying that "Mike Whitney" is a, pro-Saddam, Baathist?  G2099   Jul-16-05 11:07 PM   #10 
  - No, just that website, which is run by fascists.  geek tragedy   Jul-17-05 09:08 AM   #24 
  - "that website is a Baathist, pro-Saddam front."  bloom   Jul-16-05 11:18 PM   #11 
  - you got that right  Kathy in Cambridge   Jul-16-05 11:21 PM   #12 
  - I know exactly what's left of center. Baathists and other fascists  geek tragedy   Jul-17-05 09:08 AM   #25 
     - If anything - what I have seen on that site is the opposite of fascism...  bloom   Jul-17-05 09:46 AM   #30 
        - You didn't see this then:  geek tragedy   Jul-17-05 09:49 AM   #31 
           - Ok  bloom   Jul-17-05 09:57 AM   #33 
              - There are no "opposites" in fascism imo--the Baathists and the  geek tragedy   Jul-17-05 10:09 AM   #35 
                 - Bush, A Baathist Supporter?  bloom   Jul-17-05 06:14 PM   #44 
                    - I use the term "proto-fascists." They don't have the institutional  geek tragedy   Jul-17-05 07:26 PM   #46 
                       - Most are not as open about it as Ledeen...  bloom   Jul-17-05 07:59 PM   #48 
                          - Michael Ledeen is an extremist, even amongst that crowd.  geek tragedy   Jul-17-05 09:47 PM   #49 
                             - Whether he is more extreme - but they like to listen to him  bloom   Jul-17-05 10:41 PM   #50 
  - Proof please? It's an Italian website often used by legitimate folks as  Kathy in Cambridge   Jul-16-05 11:25 PM   #14 
  - No, it's run by supporters of Saddam and his fascist movement.  geek tragedy   Jul-17-05 09:12 AM   #27 
  - That is good list of sites...  bloom   Jul-17-05 06:22 PM   #45 
  - Just interested. What was your source of this information?  not systems   Jul-17-05 01:02 AM   #17 
  - my guess is some third site  Kathy in Cambridge   Jul-17-05 08:39 AM   #22 
  - Every single article about Saddam on that website praises and/or  geek tragedy   Jul-17-05 09:07 AM   #23 
  - Ja mein Freund!  Swamp Rat   Jul-17-05 01:21 AM   #18 
  - Truth hurts, huh?  geek tragedy   Jul-17-05 09:09 AM   #26 
     - HAHAHAHAHAH!!!!!!! The "TRUTH!" HAHAHAHAHA!!!!!!!  Swamp Rat   Jul-17-05 03:44 PM   #39 
        - Yep. It's hard to read the below site search and conclude otherwise.  geek tragedy   Jul-17-05 03:55 PM   #41 
           - “Truth hurts” ... OWOWOW!!!  Swamp Rat   Jul-17-05 05:04 PM   #42 
              - What's your point? Opposition to Baathists and opposition to Bushists  geek tragedy   Jul-17-05 07:28 PM   #47 
  - you could say that about more than half the world now  bpilgrim   Jul-17-05 09:21 AM   #28 
     - The great majority of the world doesn't belong to the Baathist party  geek tragedy   Jul-17-05 09:53 AM   #32 
        - they also stand in opposition to our fascist policies  bpilgrim   Jul-17-05 10:22 AM   #36 
           - Exactly my point--the Baathists know this stuff like the back of their  geek tragedy   Jul-17-05 10:25 AM   #37 
  - Harry S. Truman...  bloom   Jul-16-05 11:23 PM   #13 
  - The American people are waking up from their sheeple slumber  alittlelark   Jul-17-05 12:50 AM   #16 
  - Wow, I just found this thread again  vickitulsa   Jul-17-05 08:18 AM   #21 
  - welcome to DU  bpilgrim   Jul-17-05 09:29 AM   #29 
  - Welcome! But be carefull....  Viva_La_Revolution   Jul-17-05 10:25 AM   #38 
  - Welcome to DU!  Swamp Rat   Jul-17-05 03:49 PM   #40 
  - Great Web Site- Thanks for posting  BeHereNow   Jul-17-05 05:26 PM   #43 
  - I cannot recommend this, but I can kick it! n/t  Stand and Fight   Jul-18-05 09:00 AM   #51 
 

Home » Discuss » Archives » General Discussion (Through 2005) Donate to DU

Powered by DCForum+ Version 1.1 Copyright 1997-2002 DCScripts.com
Software has been extensively modified by the DU administrators


Important Notices: By participating on this discussion board, visitors agree to abide by the rules outlined on our Rules page. Messages posted on the Democratic Underground Discussion Forums are the opinions of the individuals who post them, and do not necessarily represent the opinions of Democratic Underground, LLC.

Home  |  Discussion Forums  |  Journals |  Store  |  Donate

About DU  |  Contact Us  |  Privacy Policy

Got a message for Democratic Underground? Click here to send us a message.

© 2001 - 2011 Democratic Underground, LLC