| 196. Easy to see the logic of it |
|
It's very simple really:
Start with property that someone owns completely.
Now begin making a list of what that person cannot do with the property.
How long does the list have to be before the person no longer owns the property? Suppose the government said "it's yours, you just can't do anything with it". Does the person still own it?
Just having a piece of paper telling you you own it is no substitute for deciding what should be done with it. That's the whole idea of property. If you own it you control it. Losing control means losing a bit of ownership.
That said, this case is totally different since the people that get their land taken ARE PAID FOR IT. That's why this was a good decision.
It's also true that a in a city, everyone agrees that a little bit of their property is owned by everyone else. You just don't move to a city and expect to be able to do whatever you want. To some extent all property is COMMONLY OWNED BY THE CITIZENS. They exercise control over their commonly owned property though their elected officials.
So while property rights advocates might have a good arguement in general about takings, it just doesn't apply here.
Besides, even if regulations in effect take property, the only thing the takings clause people could do is ask for compensation. The changes would still be made.
|
| -Liberal SCOTUS Justices Screwed The Home Owners |
stopbush |
Jun-23-05 11:46 AM |
#0 |
-
I agree 100% |
AX10 |
Jun-23-05 11:48 AM |
#1 |
 -
On this particualr ruling, I prefer to put the blame where it |
stopbush |
Jun-23-05 11:51 AM |
#2 |
-
The liberals on the court were right to support this |
blurp |
Jun-23-05 01:13 PM |
#8 |
-
So long, private property, then. |
aeolian |
Jun-23-05 01:16 PM |
#9 |
 -
Private property is anti-democratic |
blurp |
Jun-23-05 01:20 PM |
#12 |
  -
That's how Magabe justifies it, too. |
elehhhhna |
Jun-23-05 01:24 PM |
#17 |
  -
Then you should really be against this friend. Consider this scenario |
MadHound |
Jun-23-05 01:50 PM |
#50 |
   -
So one farmer should stand in the way of people that need homes? |
blurp |
Jun-23-05 01:55 PM |
#54 |
  -
so developers and bureaucrats should be able to push families out of |
aeolian |
Jun-23-05 02:10 PM |
#64 |
   -
THE PEOPLE should be able to push families out |
blurp |
Jun-23-05 02:15 PM |
#69 |
    -
You can't see how that could possibly go wrong? |
aeolian |
Jun-23-05 02:18 PM |
#72 |
     -
Why do you think we have social programs? |
blurp |
Jun-23-05 02:22 PM |
#75 |
    -
CitiCorp wanting to build an office building is now a "social program?" |
aeolian |
Jun-23-05 02:25 PM |
#80 |
     -
If it brings jobs and more tax money |
blurp |
Jun-23-05 02:28 PM |
#84 |
    -
"we support democracy" |
Prag |
Jun-23-05 02:36 PM |
#95 |
     -
But they answer to elected officials |
blurp |
Jun-23-05 02:40 PM |
#103 |
    -
Will you stop with this blather about Democracy |
davepc |
Jun-23-05 02:48 PM |
#112 |
     -
Democracy is NOT BLATHER |
blurp |
Jun-23-05 02:54 PM |
#119 |
    -
In its purest form that what it is! |
davepc |
Jun-23-05 02:58 PM |
#124 |
    -
Why not build cities populated entirely by corporate structures |
stopbush |
Jun-23-05 03:25 PM |
#137 |
     -
Hey, not to mention the "elected officials" from that district... |
Prag |
Jun-23-05 03:28 PM |
#139 |
    -
I support democracy |
TXlib |
Jun-23-05 06:07 PM |
#181 |
    -
They aren't necessarily opposed |
blurp |
Jun-23-05 07:31 PM |
#193 |
    -
Communism only works when everyone is emotionally vested in everybody else |
TXlib |
Jun-23-05 11:26 PM |
#200 |
    -
YOU'RE DAMNED STRAIGHT I REALIZE WHO I AM AGREEING WITH! |
Walt Starr |
Jun-23-05 07:53 PM |
#198 |
    -
Trouble with that concept friend is that it isn't THE PEOPLE |
MadHound |
Jun-23-05 02:32 PM |
#89 |
     -
As an individaul, you don't like it, but we live in a democracy. |
blurp |
Jun-23-05 02:38 PM |
#99 |
    -
put the issue up for a vote then |
GreenArrow |
Jun-23-05 02:42 PM |
#108 |
    -
Wrong, we live in a Constitutinal REPUBLIC |
TexasUnderground |
Jun-23-05 02:47 PM |
#111 |
     -
This is also called "Democratic Underground" |
blurp |
Jun-23-05 02:57 PM |
#122 |
    -
Funny how as, according to you "Democracy wins" |
TexasUnderground |
Jun-23-05 03:37 PM |
#144 |
    -
You don't have the slightest idea of what you're talking about.. |
T Town Jake |
Jun-23-05 03:39 PM |
#147 |
    -
It's funny how your vision of democracy resembles Soviet Russia |
TXlib |
Jun-23-05 06:06 PM |
#180 |
    -
LOL friend, you don't know a damn thing about me, |
MadHound |
Jun-23-05 03:01 PM |
#128 |
    -
You keep saying it is up to the people to decide, but it is not. |
Rex |
Jun-23-05 06:15 PM |
#182 |
    -
The rules of our democracy are layed out by the Constitution. |
Sushi-Lover |
Jun-23-05 06:24 PM |
#184 |
    -
Either you're an outright communist |
TXlib |
Jun-23-05 06:05 PM |
#179 |
   -
They're not bureaucrats. |
cprise |
Jun-23-05 02:41 PM |
#107 |
  -
Did you even read the post properly? |
GoneOffShore |
Jun-23-05 02:27 PM |
#83 |
   -
Of course I read the post. Either you support democracy or not. |
blurp |
Jun-23-05 02:30 PM |
#86 |
  -
Life, Liberty, Pursuit of Happiness (property) |
VTMechEngr |
Jun-23-05 02:33 PM |
#93 |
   -
Democrats stand for democracy |
blurp |
Jun-23-05 02:46 PM |
#109 |
  -
So, you support turning a 30% homeless rate into a 50% homeless rate. |
Prag |
Jun-23-05 02:48 PM |
#113 |
  -
Oh yeah, just wait |
ProgressiveFool |
Jun-23-05 04:59 PM |
#171 |
  -
Tyranny of the Majority eh? |
Heaven and Earth |
Jun-23-05 11:40 PM |
#202 |
  -
OMG! What a horrible concept. A farmer needing land for crops |
VTMechEngr |
Jun-23-05 02:32 PM |
#88 |
   -
Making special considerations for housing, agriculture... |
cprise |
Jun-23-05 03:17 PM |
#133 |
  -
Considering that I own such a farm, yes, I think that it is entirely fair |
MadHound |
Jun-23-05 02:40 PM |
#104 |
   -
Its too bad we don't have fair or comprehensive planning policies. |
cprise |
Jun-23-05 03:29 PM |
#140 |
  -
I agree with you |
MadHound |
Jun-23-05 03:41 PM |
#149 |
  -
Soooo |
Horse with no Name |
Jun-24-05 11:38 AM |
#212 |
  -
tyranny of the majority is anti-democratic too |
davepc |
Jun-23-05 02:32 PM |
#90 |
   -
I can't believe what I'm hearing! |
blurp |
Jun-23-05 02:52 PM |
#116 |
    -
Party of Democracy? |
GarySeven |
Jun-23-05 03:25 PM |
#138 |
   -
You don't even know the definition of "democracy" |
blurp |
Jun-23-05 03:47 PM |
#153 |
   -
You are an absolute NUT |
GarySeven |
Jun-23-05 03:52 PM |
#157 |
   -
the proper name for the tyranny of the majority is kleptocracy |
TexasUnderground |
Jun-23-05 03:38 PM |
#146 |
  -
Suddenly, the scene in Dr Zhivago where 200 people are |
stopbush |
Jun-23-05 03:21 PM |
#134 |
  -
Really? |
davekriss |
Jun-23-05 05:50 PM |
#176 |
  -
"Private Property is anti-democratic" is the same concept that... |
AX10 |
Jun-23-05 06:37 PM |
#186 |
   -
Then you apparently agree with all the conservatives |
blurp |
Jun-23-05 07:34 PM |
#194 |
  -
Private property guarantees democracy ! |
eagler |
Jun-24-05 05:22 AM |
#206 |
 -
Ugh |
FreedomAngel82 |
Jun-23-05 01:47 PM |
#47 |
-
Tax the rich then. |
Prag |
Jun-23-05 01:28 PM |
#25 |
 -
Property owners are the rich |
blurp |
Jun-23-05 01:31 PM |
#30 |
-
Anyone who makes mortgage payments is *NOT* "rich"... |
Prag |
Jun-23-05 01:35 PM |
#33 |
 -
thank you, you took the words out of my mouth.n/t |
converted_democrat |
Jun-23-05 02:08 PM |
#61 |
-
this won't effect the Rich |
GreenArrow |
Jun-23-05 01:39 PM |
#36 |
 -
Relative to the poor, they are the rich. |
blurp |
Jun-23-05 01:43 PM |
#40 |
  -
"the city does pay 'fair market value' to the land owner for property" |
Prag |
Jun-23-05 01:49 PM |
#49 |
  -
I grew up poor too, but I worked very hard for my modest home....... |
converted_democrat |
Jun-23-05 02:25 PM |
#79 |
   -
And some don't even have a home. |
blurp |
Jun-23-05 02:33 PM |
#92 |
  -
Your not making any sense....You have it all wrong. |
converted_democrat |
Jun-23-05 02:37 PM |
#96 |
  -
Please explain how making the 30% homeless 50% homeless... |
Prag |
Jun-23-05 02:38 PM |
#100 |
  -
It isn't for the greater good. It just helps the rich get richer..... |
converted_democrat |
Jun-23-05 02:40 PM |
#102 |
  -
From Each According to His Ability |
TexasUnderground |
Jun-23-05 03:40 PM |
#148 |
  -
It is a DEMOCRATIC |
blurp |
Jun-23-05 03:58 PM |
#160 |
   -
So is lynching, racism if the "majority" so decrees |
TexasUnderground |
Jun-23-05 04:46 PM |
#166 |
  -
To each according to his greed isn't communism |
Lilith Velkor |
Jun-23-05 06:23 PM |
#183 |
  -
Fair market value = 10-20% of REAL fair market value |
TexasUnderground |
Jun-23-05 02:50 PM |
#114 |
 -
Said so much better than I ever could... |
Prag |
Jun-23-05 01:46 PM |
#44 |
-
don't mention it |
GreenArrow |
Jun-23-05 02:11 PM |
#66 |
-
So I'm RICH! That's a laugher friend! |
MadHound |
Jun-23-05 03:11 PM |
#132 |
-
Everone with wealth thinks they "deserve it". Nice try. |
blurp |
Jun-23-05 03:50 PM |
#155 |
-
So you really believe |
Ron Mexico |
Jun-23-05 02:58 PM |
#125 |
-
You must be absolutely CRAZY |
GarySeven |
Jun-23-05 02:58 PM |
#126 |
-
Eminent domain should be reserved for PUBLIC uses of property-- |
eridani |
Jun-24-05 03:32 AM |
#203 |
-
This is going to hurt us politically |
4_Legs_Good |
Jun-23-05 11:52 AM |
#3 |
 -
most of the people who post here will not be happy either |
ProdigalJunkMail |
Jun-23-05 11:55 AM |
#5 |
  -
I'm happy. Taking this land means more collected in taxes. That's good. |
blurp |
Jun-23-05 01:17 PM |
#10 |
   -
no---that is how communism works |
ProdigalJunkMail |
Jun-23-05 01:20 PM |
#13 |
    -
Nope. It's about democracy and the greater good. |
blurp |
Jun-23-05 01:24 PM |
#18 |
   -
wait until they fuck over someone you love |
ProdigalJunkMail |
Jun-23-05 01:27 PM |
#21 |
    -
But the corp pays more in taxes to the city |
blurp |
Jun-23-05 01:36 PM |
#34 |
   -
we are a country of laws |
ProdigalJunkMail |
Jun-23-05 01:45 PM |
#42 |
    -
Please don't alert this post... |
cprise |
Jun-23-05 03:00 PM |
#127 |
   -
It is "very instructive"...and quite right, at that. |
T Town Jake |
Jun-23-05 03:41 PM |
#150 |
   -
Wait .. what?? |
Sushi-Lover |
Jun-23-05 04:18 PM |
#163 |
   -
That's not what I was getting at. |
cprise |
Jun-23-05 04:49 PM |
#167 |
   -
i don't believe property rights are absolute |
ProdigalJunkMail |
Jun-24-05 06:53 AM |
#208 |
   -
selfish bastards |
GreenArrow |
Jun-23-05 01:45 PM |
#43 |
    -
But he was right |
blurp |
Jun-23-05 02:05 PM |
#59 |
   -
Be very careful with that statement |
wuushew |
Jun-23-05 02:10 PM |
#63 |
    -
Not at all racist |
blurp |
Jun-23-05 02:17 PM |
#70 |
   -
Why was invading Amerika the only option for the Irish? |
wuushew |
Jun-23-05 02:24 PM |
#78 |
   -
John Wayne is burning in HELL with Adolf. |
AX10 |
Jun-23-05 06:49 PM |
#188 |
   -
he was right to absolutely no extent |
GreenArrow |
Jun-23-05 02:14 PM |
#67 |
    -
If you're poor and hungry, you'll fight |
blurp |
Jun-23-05 02:19 PM |
#73 |
   -
Geez, you don't even know history do you! |
MadHound |
Jun-23-05 03:22 PM |
#135 |
   -
You're the one that is ignorant of history |
blurp |
Jun-23-05 03:45 PM |
#151 |
   -
Funny guy, tell you what, can I go show these comments of yours |
MadHound |
Jun-23-05 04:59 PM |
#172 |
   -
Please avail yourself of his services. Don't just sit in your office. |
blurp |
Jun-23-05 05:58 PM |
#177 |
   -
Maybe it does, maybe it doesn't |
0rganism |
Jun-23-05 02:24 PM |
#77 |
   -
Really? Come over to Fairfield Connecticut, GE hasn't.... |
AX10 |
Jun-23-05 06:52 PM |
#189 |
   -
This ISN'T about the greater good |
fujiyama |
Jun-23-05 01:33 PM |
#31 |
    -
Yes it is. |
blurp |
Jun-23-05 01:40 PM |
#37 |
     -
Money for more social programs----Right........ |
converted_democrat |
Jun-23-05 02:56 PM |
#120 |
    -
The words you're looking for are PUBLIC USE |
0rganism |
Jun-23-05 02:27 PM |
#82 |
   -
But collecting more in taxes is a form of PUBLIC USE |
blurp |
Jun-23-05 03:01 PM |
#129 |
   -
YOU DON'T KNOW that more taxes will be the result, |
0rganism |
Jun-23-05 03:22 PM |
#136 |
   -
It's been developed for high end condos |
GoneOffShore |
Jun-23-05 02:32 PM |
#91 |
   -
Liberalism means helping the INDIVIDUAL |
GarySeven |
Jun-23-05 03:07 PM |
#131 |
   -
Yeah well liberalism isn't enough. |
cprise |
Jun-23-05 03:59 PM |
#161 |
   -
Is this sarcasm? It must be... nt |
smartvoter |
Jun-23-05 01:21 PM |
#15 |
    -
let's hope so... |
ProdigalJunkMail |
Jun-23-05 01:22 PM |
#16 |
     -
Not sarcasm and not cold-hearted |
blurp |
Jun-23-05 01:28 PM |
#23 |
    -
luck? lucky to own a home? |
ProdigalJunkMail |
Jun-23-05 01:31 PM |
#29 |
     -
Yes, lucky. And lucky to own a business, too. Those are taken as well. |
blurp |
Jun-23-05 01:46 PM |
#45 |
      -
this will need to be deleted |
ProdigalJunkMail |
Jun-23-05 01:48 PM |
#48 |
     -
Don't give me the "all taxes are pass on" crud |
blurp |
Jun-23-05 02:02 PM |
#56 |
     -
yeah...corporations just absorb that |
ProdigalJunkMail |
Jun-23-05 02:04 PM |
# |
     -
well, no |
Lexingtonian |
Jun-23-05 01:51 PM |
#52 |
    -
a little esoteric for this discussion |
ProdigalJunkMail |
Jun-23-05 01:56 PM |
#55 |
    -
absolutely wrong |
Lexingtonian |
Jun-23-05 02:09 PM |
#62 |
    -
the king owns his castle, the lord his manor |
GreenArrow |
Jun-23-05 02:19 PM |
#74 |
     -
hardly |
Lexingtonian |
Jun-23-05 02:38 PM |
#98 |
    -
this law has the potential of creating a whole lot more |
GreenArrow |
Jun-23-05 02:57 PM |
#123 |
    -
That's why it's called real estate |
blurp |
Jun-23-05 02:24 PM |
#76 |
    -
Dude, you have this all wrong........ |
converted_democrat |
Jun-23-05 02:15 PM |
#68 |
    -
But big corps pay more in taxes. That's a fact. |
blurp |
Jun-23-05 02:26 PM |
#81 |
    -
No they don't........ |
converted_democrat |
Jun-23-05 02:34 PM |
#94 |
    -
No they don't. Not proportionately. This is just silly. |
smartvoter |
Jun-23-05 11:38 PM |
#201 |
    -
I'm thinking it must be |
GreenArrow |
Jun-23-05 01:52 PM |
#53 |
    -
unfortunately not |
noiretblu |
Jun-23-05 02:04 PM |
#58 |
   -
Fact is big corps make lots of money, therefore can pay more in taxes |
blurp |
Jun-23-05 02:07 PM |
#60 |
   -
they make lots of money, but they pay little in taxes......... |
converted_democrat |
Jun-23-05 02:29 PM |
#85 |
    -
Agreed |
Hong Kong Cavalier |
Jun-23-05 02:46 PM |
#110 |
   -
enron certainly was a big corporation |
noiretblu |
Jun-23-05 04:09 PM |
#162 |
   -
except of course... that often such projects get huge tax breaks |
salin |
Jun-23-05 01:33 PM |
#32 |
    -
You are absolutely correct that incentives are expensive |
wuushew |
Jun-23-05 01:47 PM |
#46 |
   -
no it's how fascism works |
GreenArrow |
Jun-23-05 01:43 PM |
#39 |
    -
They take the property to get more in tax money |
blurp |
Jun-23-05 01:51 PM |
#51 |
   -
Corporations are given huge tax breaks to move into a community. |
converted_democrat |
Jun-23-05 02:31 PM |
#87 |
   -
any extra tax money isn't going to social programs |
GreenArrow |
Jun-23-05 02:37 PM |
#97 |
   -
This had nothing to do with social programs |
dean_dem |
Jun-23-05 03:30 PM |
# |
    -
I agree completely |
Indy Lurker |
Jun-23-05 07:06 PM |
#191 |
   -
delete: my send button's a little trigger-happy |
dean_dem |
Jun-23-05 03:30 PM |
#141 |
   -
Karl? That you? I've got Engels on the phone. Lenin says hi! |
davepc |
Jun-23-05 02:38 PM |
#101 |
    -
You're talking to the wrong Karl, if you read closely. |
pgh_dem |
Jun-23-05 05:23 PM |
#175 |
   -
I suppose you're calling me a freeper then |
blurp |
Jun-23-05 07:39 PM |
#195 |
   -
Jesus Christ, you are sooooo naive! |
dbaker41 |
Jun-23-05 07:50 PM |
#197 |
  -
but it also cleaves a wedge among republicans |
salin |
Jun-23-05 01:30 PM |
#27 |
 -
That's why I just can't understand why the supposed "liberal" judges |
ComerPerro |
Jun-23-05 01:19 PM |
#11 |
-
More public services provided with more tax money |
blurp |
Jun-23-05 01:21 PM |
#14 |
 -
The trend in business taxation has been a downward race to the bottom |
wuushew |
Jun-23-05 01:27 PM |
#22 |
  -
More business mean more tax money to collect |
blurp |
Jun-23-05 01:30 PM |
#28 |
 -
Yeah, I suppose that would be one rationale. But good luck collecting |
ComerPerro |
Jun-23-05 01:37 PM |
#35 |
-
I think they were being strict constitutionalists and defining the term |
4_Legs_Good |
Jun-23-05 01:40 PM |
#38 |
 -
Thanks for an actual answer and not just hot rhetoric |
ComerPerro |
Jun-23-05 01:43 PM |
#41 |
 -
I agree halfway |
Lexingtonian |
Jun-23-05 02:02 PM |
#57 |
-
Because "liberal" judges advocate an open interpretation of the Constituti |
davepc |
Jun-23-05 02:51 PM |
#115 |
-
it's feeble minded - proof that there needs to be judicial term limits |
sui generis |
Jun-23-05 11:55 AM |
#4 |
-
spot on post. thank you. nt |
antfarm |
Jun-23-05 12:46 PM |
#6 |
-
I feel sick, i agreed with Scalia. |
SeekerofTruth |
Jun-23-05 01:03 PM |
#7 |
-
I have agreed with Thomas twice this month! |
Mitt Chovick |
Jun-23-05 01:24 PM |
#19 |
-
So there are only four conservative justices on the SC? |
redqueen |
Jun-23-05 01:26 PM |
#20 |
-
I'm not sure which is worse ... |
Eastside Blue |
Jun-23-05 01:28 PM |
#24 |
-
It's strange |
fujiyama |
Jun-23-05 01:29 PM |
#26 |
 -
Exact same reaction when I read the story this morning |
bunkerbuster1 |
Jun-23-05 03:07 PM |
#130 |
-
You may be with them... But, for entirely different reasons. |
Prag |
Jun-23-05 03:35 PM |
#142 |
-
maybe they draw straws on who will be liberal and who will be... |
tandem5 |
Jun-23-05 02:11 PM |
#65 |
-
Only RETHUGS would support this ruling! |
TheGoldenRule |
Jun-23-05 02:18 PM |
#71 |
 -
Only corporatist support it |
davepc |
Jun-23-05 02:40 PM |
#106 |
  -
Correctomundo |
TexasUnderground |
Jun-23-05 02:53 PM |
#117 |
 -
No, this mad grab for tax base is a result of G.O.P. tax policies |
cprise |
Jun-23-05 03:38 PM |
#145 |
-
States are free to increase their own income taxes |
blurp |
Jun-23-05 07:30 PM |
#192 |
-
Deleted message |
Name removed |
Jun-23-05 02:40 PM |
#105 |
 -
There is no representation of middle America anywhere in our Government. |
Prag |
Jun-23-05 02:53 PM |
#118 |
 -
The issue of property rights is only one dimension. |
tandem5 |
Jun-23-05 03:49 PM |
#154 |
 -
Simple .. a proper liberal |
Sushi-Lover |
Jun-23-05 03:53 PM |
#158 |
-
:( this is scarily fascistic. |
FizzFuzz |
Jun-23-05 02:57 PM |
#121 |
-
The point is holding the line on so-called property rights |
LawDem |
Jun-23-05 03:37 PM |
#143 |
 -
TOTALLY Agree. SCOTUS made a hard but correct decision. |
cprise |
Jun-23-05 03:46 PM |
#152 |
 -
What you say is absolutely true, BUT |
GarySeven |
Jun-23-05 03:51 PM |
#156 |
 -
There can be a fair balance between private property and societal good |
davepc |
Jun-23-05 03:54 PM |
#159 |
  -
Socialism, my ass! |
eridani |
Jun-24-05 03:53 AM |
#205 |
 -
I'm a homeowner, and I agree |
Pithlet |
Jun-23-05 04:29 PM |
#165 |
  -
Nobody wants to abolish eliminate domain |
davepc |
Jun-23-05 04:54 PM |
#170 |
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Actually, I don't want to scare anyone, |
Sushi-Lover |
Jun-23-05 05:06 PM |
#173 |
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It's definitely not something that should be done on a whim |
Pithlet |
Jun-23-05 06:31 PM |
#185 |
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I understand that |
Pithlet |
Jun-23-05 05:07 PM |
#174 |
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In this case, Pfizer wants to built a new corporate complex... |
AX10 |
Jun-23-05 06:42 PM |
#187 |
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That is wrong |
Pithlet |
Jun-23-05 07:53 PM |
#199 |
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with respect |
TexasUnderground |
Jun-23-05 04:52 PM |
#168 |
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that "bump in the road" to property rights... |
NorthernSpy |
Jun-23-05 06:00 PM |
#178 |
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Deleted message |
Name removed |
Jun-23-05 04:27 PM |
#164 |
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This part of what you said is BS |
Sushi-Lover |
Jun-23-05 04:52 PM |
#169 |
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How's this tied to the "takings clause" debate in general? |
Cell Whitman |
Jun-23-05 06:59 PM |
#190 |
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Easy to see the logic of it |
blurp |
Jun-23-05 07:48 PM |
#196 |
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There is nothing wrong with eminent domain-- |
eridani |
Jun-24-05 03:38 AM |
#204 |
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Uh, have NONE of you guys figured out... |
Ferretherder |
Jun-24-05 05:58 AM |
#207 |
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no doubt...but he is fun n/t |
ProdigalJunkMail |
Jun-24-05 06:56 AM |
#209 |
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It's like a time machine back to 8th grade govenrment class |
Phoebe Loosinhouse |
Jun-24-05 07:36 AM |
#210 |
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Agreed. |
Sushi-Lover |
Jun-24-05 11:29 AM |
#211 |