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Reply #133: You are being shameless here [View All]

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sangha Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Sep-20-03 02:46 PM
Response to Reply #128
133. You are being shameless here
The Constitution is not a straw man. Your assertion that I said POTUS has the power to DECLARE war is the straw man. I did not say that, which is why I said, in an earlier post "I did not say that"

both very distinct words which even common sense would accept one - WAGE - normally follows the other - DECLARE - unless perverted by our leadership - both now and ESPECIALLY in the recent (60 years) past - which i am sure you do not support.

US history shows that WAGE does not always follow DECLARE. See Truman, TR's invasion of Panama, the Korean War, and the VietNam War, amonsgt others. History shows that DECLARE usually does NOT precede WAGE
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  -Deleted message Name removed  Sep-20-03 09:46 AM   #0 
  - except for one thing  DinoBoy   Sep-20-03 09:48 AM   #1 
  - Deleted message  Name removed   Sep-20-03 09:54 AM   #3 
  - when you are handing over your power to someone  virtualobserver   Sep-20-03 10:26 AM   #20 
  - A one-liner response  sangha   Sep-20-03 11:27 AM   #38 
     - only the Congress has the constitutional power to declare war  virtualobserver   Sep-20-03 11:45 AM   #42 
        - Another one-liner that explains nothing  sangha   Sep-20-03 11:54 AM   #46 
        - you ignore reality....  virtualobserver   Sep-20-03 12:14 PM   #51 
           - Another one-liner that explains nothing  sangha   Sep-20-03 12:27 PM   #54 
              - Did Congress declare war?  virtualobserver   Sep-20-03 12:42 PM   #61 
                 - That's better  sangha   Sep-20-03 12:47 PM   #63 
                    - no kidding....  virtualobserver   Sep-20-03 12:52 PM   #65 
                    - Another one-liner  sangha   Sep-20-03 01:10 PM   #75 
                       - Congress still has the power to declare war and pass legislation.  virtualobserver   Sep-20-03 01:16 PM   #79 
                          - Irrelevant and it makes no sense  sangha   Sep-20-03 01:28 PM   #87 
                             - They handed the power over with the War Powers act.  virtualobserver   Sep-20-03 01:47 PM   #97 
                                - That makes no sense  sangha   Sep-20-03 01:50 PM   #99 
                                   - so let me get this straight  virtualobserver   Sep-20-03 01:59 PM   #105 
                                   - Not straight  sangha   Sep-20-03 02:02 PM   #107 
                                      - not a personal attack  virtualobserver   Sep-20-03 02:19 PM   #115 
                                      - Whatever. I'm not going to obsess over it  sangha   Sep-20-03 02:23 PM   #117 
                                      - once again you avoid the question....  virtualobserver   Sep-20-03 02:28 PM   #121 
                                      - What question is that?  sangha   Sep-20-03 02:29 PM   #123 
                                      - do you believe that a law that violates the Constitution ....  virtualobserver   Sep-20-03 02:40 PM   #126 
                                      - Yes, and it remains on the books as law of the land  sangha   Sep-20-03 02:43 PM   #129 
                                      - It does change the functional balance of power  virtualobserver   Sep-20-03 02:48 PM   #135 
                                      - No it doesn't  sangha   Sep-20-03 02:50 PM   #139 
                                   - it doesn't grant him authority to declare war but it does grant such  bpilgrim   Sep-20-03 02:03 PM   #108 
                                      - I'm sorry, I don't understand your point  sangha   Sep-20-03 02:08 PM   #110 
                                         - The Constitution only gives authority to CONGRESS to Declare War.  bpilgrim   Sep-20-03 02:20 PM   #116 
                                         - So what? That's a straw man  sangha   Sep-20-03 02:28 PM   #122 
                                         - now the ACTUAL constitution is a 'straw man' when that is the TOPIC - lol  bpilgrim   Sep-20-03 02:42 PM   #128 
                                         - You are being shameless here  sangha   Sep-20-03 02:46 PM   #133 
                                         - If there is no war declared.......  virtualobserver   Sep-20-03 02:43 PM   #130 
                                         - The same way TR, Truman, Ike and Johnson did.....nt  sangha   Sep-20-03 02:48 PM   #136 
                                         - unconstitutionally n/t  virtualobserver   Sep-20-03 02:50 PM   #138 
                                         - Constitutionally  sangha   Sep-20-03 02:51 PM   #140 
                                         - give me a quote from the constitution where it states that.....  virtualobserver   Sep-20-03 02:53 PM   #143 
                                         - Article II, Section 2..................nt  sangha   Sep-20-03 02:54 PM   #144 
                                         - again... can you point to a section in the constitution that says the prez  bpilgrim   Sep-20-03 02:58 PM   #147 
                                         - exactly, they were all guilty of not following the constitution as well  bpilgrim   Sep-20-03 02:53 PM   #142 
                                         - So says you  sangha   Sep-20-03 02:54 PM   #145 
                                         - you won't quote it because it doesn't say it.......  virtualobserver   Sep-20-03 02:58 PM   #146 
                                         - It puts POTUS in charge of the military  sangha   Sep-20-03 03:00 PM   #149 
                                         - 1. No quote  virtualobserver   Sep-20-03 03:05 PM   #151 
                                         - It's not a question of "OK or not OK"  sangha   Sep-20-03 03:07 PM   #153 
                                         - can anyone else help SANGHA out here?  bpilgrim   Sep-20-03 03:12 PM   #157 
                                         - that STILL doesn't give him the AUTHORITY to DECLARE WAR.  bpilgrim   Sep-20-03 03:09 PM   #155 
                                         - so now you are advocating for the SCOTUS to make it official?  bpilgrim   Sep-20-03 03:07 PM   #152 
                                         - Another straw man  sangha   Sep-20-03 03:09 PM   #154 
                                         - what YOUR ideology?  bpilgrim   Sep-20-03 03:18 PM   #160 
                    - but it really has been the rule of thumb since TRUMAN and we acepted the  bpilgrim   Sep-20-03 12:56 PM   #71 
                       - Yes and no.  sangha   Sep-20-03 01:12 PM   #77 
                          - well it is certainly UNCONSTITUTIONAL  bpilgrim   Sep-20-03 01:28 PM   #88 
                             - It is constitutional  sangha   Sep-20-03 01:30 PM   #89 
                                - can you point out where in the constitution it grants such powers then?  bpilgrim   Sep-20-03 01:42 PM   #94 
                                   - Article II, Section 2  sangha   Sep-20-03 01:44 PM   #95 
                                      - that ONLY designates him COMMANDER and CHIEF of the armed services  bpilgrim   Sep-20-03 01:57 PM   #104 
                                         - It's "Commander-IN-Chief"  sangha   Sep-20-03 02:05 PM   #109 
                                            - it STILL doesn't give him AUTHORITY to DECLARE WAR only CONGRESS  bpilgrim   Sep-20-03 02:24 PM   #118 
                                            - Straw Man  sangha   Sep-20-03 02:29 PM   #124 
                                            - the president has the authority to wage war once it has been declared  bpilgrim   Sep-20-03 02:44 PM   #132 
                                            - CINC can wage war without a DoW  sangha   Sep-20-03 02:48 PM   #134 
                                            - of COURSE he CAN but where does he draw his authority to do so?  bpilgrim   Sep-20-03 03:16 PM   #159 
        - that is actually a 'TREND' started with the TRUMAN admin (korea) - n/t  bpilgrim   Sep-20-03 12:53 PM   #68 
           - Yes and no.  sangha   Sep-20-03 01:14 PM   #78 
              - it is certainly UNCONSTITUTIONAL no matter when it first occured...  bpilgrim   Sep-20-03 01:33 PM   #90 
  - yes it is  DinoBoy   Sep-20-03 12:53 PM   #67 
  - They were dealing with many of the same characters from Gulf War 1  blm   Sep-20-03 09:56 AM   #5 
  - This is such revisionist history it  clar   Sep-20-03 09:54 AM   #2 
  - Deleted message  Name removed   Sep-20-03 09:56 AM   #4 
  - Pete,  clar   Sep-20-03 10:04 AM   #7 
     - He never said that though  sandnsea   Sep-20-03 10:44 AM   #24 
  - Difference of opinion  sandnsea   Sep-20-03 10:23 AM   #18 
  - Pete has served up an ace here  uptohere   Sep-20-03 10:02 AM   #6 
  - Iraq will be such a total disaster by Nov 2004.....  virtualobserver   Sep-20-03 10:08 AM   #9 
     - Another one-liner  sangha   Sep-20-03 11:34 AM   #39 
        - you didn't read my post....  virtualobserver   Sep-20-03 12:45 PM   #62 
           - Another one-liner  sangha   Sep-20-03 12:50 PM   #64 
              - I wasn't trying to make an argument...  virtualobserver   Sep-20-03 01:10 PM   #76 
                 - If you don't want to be misread  sangha   Sep-20-03 01:17 PM   # 
                    - if you misread my "one-liners"....  virtualobserver   Sep-20-03 01:20 PM   #85 
  - This war vote litmus test is driving me up a wall  Sweetpea   Sep-20-03 10:07 AM   #8 
  - I'm not using it as a litmus test  clar   Sep-20-03 10:11 AM   #12 
     - I went to a lot of anti war protests and still could understand the vote  Sweetpea   Sep-20-03 10:17 AM   #14 
        - yeah, I'm surprised  clar   Sep-20-03 10:23 AM   #17 
  - It's very clear  sandnsea   Sep-20-03 10:09 AM   #10 
  - Partial answer  maxomai_vs_rove   Sep-20-03 10:09 AM   #11 
  - Deleted message  Name removed   Sep-20-03 10:38 AM   #23 
  - Good questions.  sangha   Sep-20-03 11:50 AM   #43 
  - Our guys are still dying, Iraqi civilians are still dying.  madfloridian   Sep-20-03 10:14 AM   #13 
  - anyone with a brain could see that Bush has hell bent on war.  virtualobserver   Sep-20-03 10:17 AM   #15 
  - It doesn't change Iraq  sandnsea   Sep-20-03 11:03 AM   #33 
  - I don't believe that there was a solution to Iraq....  virtualobserver   Sep-20-03 11:14 AM   #35 
     - Agree/Disagree  sandnsea   Sep-20-03 11:24 AM   #36 
        - I agree that it couldn't go on forever....  virtualobserver   Sep-20-03 11:40 AM   #41 
           - Something was obvious to Kerry that you still miss  sangha   Sep-20-03 12:01 PM   #49 
           - The inspectors were in there inspecting.  madfloridian   Sep-20-03 12:20 PM   #53 
              - One of us is misremebering the sequence of events  sangha   Sep-20-03 12:30 PM   #56 
              - Sangha is right  sandnsea   Sep-20-03 12:31 PM   #59 
                 - Could congress have stopped Bush until the inspections finished?  madfloridian   Sep-20-03 12:56 PM   #70 
                    - The inspections hadn't started yet  sangha   Sep-20-03 01:19 PM   #82 
                    - Bush getting off the hook  sandnsea   Sep-20-03 01:27 PM   #86 
           - You suspected  sandnsea   Sep-20-03 12:18 PM   #52 
              - I didn't just suspect, I was confident....  virtualobserver   Sep-20-03 12:31 PM   #57 
                 - It's important to me too  sandnsea   Sep-20-03 01:18 PM   #81 
  - Another one-liner  sangha   Sep-20-03 11:58 AM   #48 
     - No, but  clar   Sep-20-03 12:27 PM   #55 
        - And not one of them said Bush* was hell-bent on invading  sangha   Sep-20-03 12:32 PM   #60 
           - are you playing word games?  virtualobserver   Sep-20-03 12:57 PM   #72 
           - No, are you?  sangha   Sep-20-03 01:34 PM   #91 
           - Here you go  clar   Sep-20-03 01:17 PM   #80 
              - Not even close  sangha   Sep-20-03 01:37 PM   #92 
                 - very close  clar   Sep-20-03 01:51 PM   #100 
                 - Not close at all  sangha   Sep-20-03 01:57 PM   #103 
                    - Here  clar   Sep-20-03 02:18 PM   #113 
                       - Again, nothing about Bush* being determined to invade  sangha   Sep-20-03 02:24 PM   #119 
                          - Yeah, Byrd explicitly says a rush to war  clar   Sep-20-03 02:42 PM   #127 
                             - So what?  sangha   Sep-20-03 02:49 PM   #137 
                                - Please try to be honest  clar   Sep-20-03 03:12 PM   #156 
                 - your argument is a straw man  virtualobserver   Sep-20-03 01:54 PM   #101 
                    - Your argument is just a word game  sangha   Sep-20-03 02:00 PM   #106 
                       - saying that Bush was "hell bent" on war was a logical deduction  virtualobserver   Sep-20-03 02:14 PM   #112 
                          - Make up your mind  sangha   Sep-20-03 02:18 PM   #114 
                             - it was proven by his subsequent actions  virtualobserver   Sep-20-03 02:27 PM   #120 
                                - No it wasn't  sangha   Sep-20-03 02:30 PM   #125 
                                   - Im sorry that you couldn't see it. n/t  virtualobserver   Sep-20-03 02:52 PM   #141 
                                      - Me too.  sangha   Sep-20-03 02:59 PM   #148 
                                         - let me clarify myself......  virtualobserver   Sep-20-03 03:14 PM   #158 
  - It's the words  sandnsea   Sep-20-03 10:59 AM   #32 
  - one thing i would like to know from all who voted affirmatively ...  Pepperbelly   Sep-20-03 10:21 AM   #16 
  - You are correct PB.  hedda_foil   Sep-20-03 11:04 AM   #34 
  - Congress has NO war-making powers  sangha   Sep-20-03 12:04 PM   #50 
     - That means there is no war if Congress does not declare it...  kentuck   Sep-20-03 01:20 PM   #84 
        - and that was precisely my point...  Pepperbelly   Sep-20-03 01:49 PM   #98 
        - So what? They just give it another name  sangha   Sep-20-03 01:56 PM   #102 
  - The reality of the circumstances don't matter  CWebster   Sep-20-03 10:25 AM   #19 
  - I would refer you to the post I made above because ...  Pepperbelly   Sep-20-03 10:56 AM   #31 
  - Really?  jburton   Sep-20-03 10:31 AM   #21 
  - Deleted message  Name removed   Sep-20-03 10:46 AM   #25 
     - What congress does  CWebster   Sep-20-03 10:49 AM   #27 
  - Kerry's opposition to Gulf War I will sink him.  poskonig   Sep-20-03 10:36 AM   #22 
  - i think most just don't care  newsguyatl   Sep-20-03 10:48 AM   #26 
     - Deleted message  Name removed   Sep-20-03 10:51 AM   #28 
     - And here is the amazing part  CWebster   Sep-20-03 10:54 AM   #30 
  - I sort of agree  HPLeft   Sep-20-03 10:52 AM   #29 
  - Dean and Kerry: two bad positions on Iraq  welshTerrier2   Sep-20-03 11:24 AM   #37 
  - Deleted message  Name removed   Sep-20-03 11:51 AM   #44 
     - you are overworking this.....  bearfartinthewoods   Sep-20-03 01:06 PM   #74 
     - striving for clarity  welshTerrier2   Sep-20-03 01:37 PM   #93 
  - I completely agree.  gulliver   Sep-20-03 11:37 AM   #40 
  - while not a point by point  JNelson6563   Sep-20-03 11:53 AM   #45 
  - Deleted message  Name removed   Sep-20-03 11:56 AM   #47 
  - Kerry said that he would hold Bush responsible  vision   Sep-20-03 12:31 PM   #58 
  - not the way this war is going...  bpilgrim   Sep-20-03 12:52 PM   #66 
  - All of this is BOGUS  thinkahead   Sep-20-03 12:54 PM   #69 
  - our 'leaders' may disagree on methods but their objectives are mostly the  bpilgrim   Sep-20-03 12:58 PM   #73 
  - The Constitutional process is a Declaration of War!!!  IndianaGreen   Sep-20-03 01:20 PM   #83 
  - excellent point about clark...  bpilgrim   Sep-20-03 01:47 PM   #96 
  - I don't care if it is stronger  CMT   Sep-20-03 02:13 PM   #111 
  - Back to the drawing board, Pete  Eloriel   Sep-20-03 02:44 PM   #131 
  - Why would Kerry talk to an Abscam crook like Murtha?  sangha   Sep-20-03 03:01 PM   #150 
  - he supports a CROOK like bush... doesn't he?  bpilgrim   Sep-20-03 03:24 PM   #161 
  - Deleted message  Name removed   Sep-20-03 03:48 PM   #163 
     - it makes sense to me... he has more back bone than kerry AND seems  bpilgrim   Sep-20-03 03:59 PM   #166 
  - Excellent post Pete. n/t  oasis   Sep-20-03 03:40 PM   #162 
     - Deleted message  Name removed   Sep-20-03 03:49 PM   #164 
        - I think the anti war purists are missing out on a great candidate.  Sweetpea   Sep-20-03 03:53 PM   #165 
           - plenty MORE than just the war and the 'get over it' advice is wearing thin  bpilgrim   Sep-20-03 04:16 PM   #167 
 

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