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Reply #64: If America did not participate in WWI and WWII the globe would be run [View All]

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AP Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-25-05 11:32 PM
Response to Reply #61
64. If America did not participate in WWI and WWII the globe would be run
by fascists. Perhaps there'd be no war bringing it to America, but there would have been a great deal of misery, and perhaps death in resisting it after it was imposed.

Thousands of people died in the Philipines after America's imperialist war ended because people generally don't like to work hard (or not work at all) in order to make wealthy people thousands of miles away even wealthier.

Pacifism and isolationism have a huge cost. Make no mistake: I do not think Iraq was a war of liberation or a war to replace facism with democracy. But I think it's pretty clear what would have happened had the US not participated in WWI and WW2.

If America's views that it's enforcing is that genocidal, imperialist fascism is bad, I can't tell you how down I am with that, because, in WW2, it was not going to stop at America's borders if we listened to Prescott Bush's plea for isolationism. With isolationism, it was either going to come by way of the military, or it was going to come by way of political change, and either way, it would have been brutal.

Have you read Philip Roth's book about what might have happened if FDR lost to Lindbergh and America became fascist after WW2? I haven't finished it yet, but I presume this is a book about how, if you don't fight fascism, it will come, and in this book, it is through politics. And I suspect it is not going to work out well. Please tell me that pacifism isn't such a high ideal that you would have prefered the sort of velvet fascist revolution in America that Roth fictionalized in his book to FDR policing the world an imposing his view that democracy is good and fascism is bad.

Fascism is war without end. It might start with army vs army, but it finishes with state vs citizen (which is what the Holocaust was, or the first few days of the Bolivian water riots, before the army decided that it was on the citizens' side, and not Bechtel's). It seems to me that people who are adverse to war without end would be willing to nip fascism in the bud at the army vs army stage, as in WW2, or at the political stage (which is the solution to the problem with American action in Iraq, right now, I suspect).
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  -To Stop a War - Welcome SGT Kevin Benderman & his wife Monica to DU (Pt 2) Tinoire  May-23-05 01:11 PM   #0 
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  - Questions from Terran  Terran1212   May-23-05 01:45 PM   #2 
  - Thank you  monicab   May-23-05 02:05 PM   #9 
  - protests  monicab   May-24-05 10:26 AM   #39 
  - we're here... :-)  monicab   May-23-05 01:46 PM   #3 
  - thanks and will do  stellanoir   May-23-05 01:49 PM   #4 
  - case status  monicab   May-24-05 10:12 AM   #38 
  - Another soldier's story  monicab   May-23-05 01:54 PM   #5 
  - Letter from a soldier -  monicab   May-23-05 01:57 PM   #6 
     - ....the solution will show itself in the form of peace,,,  eridani   May-23-05 10:58 PM   #23 
        - peace is inevitable..  monicab   May-23-05 11:21 PM   #26 
  - Do you think we are winning this war?  Auntie Bush   May-23-05 01:58 PM   #7 
  - we are winning...  monicab   May-24-05 08:52 AM   #34 
  - Welcome Sgt. Kevin & Monica!  redqueen   May-23-05 02:02 PM   #8 
  - right wingers  monicab   May-24-05 10:33 AM   #40 
     - I agree. The obsession over differences,...  Just Me   May-24-05 01:08 PM   #43 
     - They force these differences on us  denese   May-27-05 07:51 AM   #70 
     - A classic tactic of war, "Divide and Conquer". Thank you Kevin and Monica  anarchy1999   May-24-05 04:02 PM   #48 
  - Welcome!  killbotfactory   May-23-05 02:16 PM   #10 
  - Thank you Tinoire  Catrina   May-23-05 06:11 PM   #11 
  - HOW do we ensure/insure  Karenina   May-23-05 06:36 PM   #12 
  - another friend from Iraq  monicab   May-23-05 08:26 PM   #13 
  - a second letter from this same friend..  monicab   May-23-05 08:32 PM   #15 
  - This is the first letter... it didn't post the first time..  monicab   May-23-05 08:35 PM   #16 
     - 5 Questions  chlamor   May-23-05 09:22 PM   #18 
     - hi  monicab   May-23-05 10:19 PM   #20 
     - An Additional Question  chlamor   May-23-05 10:48 PM   #22 
     - questions  monicab   May-24-05 10:06 AM   #37 
     - These letters break my heart...  AmBlue   May-23-05 11:23 PM   #27 
        - people helping people... gotta love it!!  monicab   May-23-05 11:29 PM   #28 
        - That would be just awesome...  AmBlue   May-23-05 11:39 PM   #29 
        - Great idea!  Zhade   May-28-05 07:52 PM   #98 
  - welcome!  ulysses   May-23-05 08:30 PM   #14 
  - This is unbelievable ~  Catrina   May-23-05 08:56 PM   #17 
     - we are not helpless..  monicab   May-23-05 10:17 PM   #19 
  - Hi again!  PuraVidaDreamin   May-23-05 10:24 PM   #21 
  - Selective Service - Delayed Entry and CO status  monicab   May-23-05 11:17 PM   #24 
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     - Here is a good link, Monica  AmBlue   May-24-05 01:57 PM   #45 
        - Thank you  monicab   May-24-05 02:45 PM   #46 
  - A sincere warm welcome.  democrank   May-23-05 11:17 PM   #25 
  - Democrank, I know what you mean  Catrina   May-24-05 12:42 AM   #30 
  - I wish EVERY American could hear you guys!  oxbow   May-24-05 01:44 AM   #32 
  - if it would be a benefit...  monicab   May-24-05 09:14 AM   #36 
  - HOW DO WE CARE???  monicab   May-24-05 08:45 AM   #33 
  - the next person reached...  monicab   May-24-05 09:08 AM   #35 
  - How much of the appalling conditions soldiers confront in Iraq do you  AP   May-24-05 10:38 AM   #41 
  - no one, young or old, should have to be part of an "armed service"  monicab   May-24-05 01:01 PM   #42 
  - Thank you.  Karenina   May-24-05 01:22 PM   #44 
  - It's a shame bright and aware minds like yours are lost upon  Roland99   May-24-05 03:48 PM   #47 
  - sending our young to kill what we fear  noiretblu   May-24-05 04:14 PM   #49 
  - This is an incredibly beautiful, heartfelt and heart wrenching essay,  anarchy1999   May-25-05 01:02 AM   #55 
  - Thank you...  monicab   May-25-05 08:14 AM   #56 
  - Daring to Walk in the Rain.. (corrected version)  monicab   May-26-05 07:43 PM   #67 
  - Damn. So true.  Zhade   May-28-05 08:10 PM   #99 
  - what kind of war is it?  monicab   May-24-05 06:28 PM   #50 
     - Devastating in its purity of thought & emotion. What can we do to help?  Tinoire   May-25-05 12:02 AM   #51 
     - how to help...  monicab   May-25-05 09:41 PM   #62 
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     - WW2 was a war against fascist imperialism.  AP   May-25-05 08:57 AM   #57 
        - "WW2 was a war against fascist imperialism." and my response  monicab   May-25-05 06:27 PM   #58 
           - During WWI, it was the American fascists who didn't want to fight the war  AP   May-25-05 07:02 PM   #59 
              - My reasons for being in the military  monicab   May-25-05 09:29 PM   #61 
                 - If America did not participate in WWI and WWII the globe would be run  AP   May-25-05 11:32 PM   #64 
                    - We do not discount WWII... but....  monicab   May-26-05 07:13 AM   #65 
                       - The reason we had to fight WWII: To Stop Fascism. It was the same battle  AP   May-27-05 05:58 PM   #83 
                       - The story of this war is no different.....  monicab   May-28-05 10:03 AM   #95 
                       - I am really appreciating your conversation with AP  Tinoire   May-27-05 06:30 PM   #86 
  - A re-posted welcome!  Sparkly   May-25-05 12:36 AM   #53 
  - THANK YOU  monicab   May-25-05 09:46 PM   #63 
  - Thank you Tinoire and thank you most of all, Monica and Kevin.  anarchy1999   May-25-05 12:51 AM   #54 
  - A few questions.  LightningFlash   May-25-05 07:10 PM   #60 
  - "A few questions." by LightningFlash  monicab   May-27-05 08:33 AM   #71 
     - Our US Constitution is the rallying point for all Americans, not PATRIOT  bobthedrummer   May-27-05 09:00 AM   #72 
        - rights and responsibility  monicab   May-27-05 12:21 PM   #73 
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  - What a wonderful idea, Monica  Catrina   May-27-05 12:48 PM   #74 
     - THE IDEA EXTENDED... help, please  monicab   May-27-05 01:19 PM   #75 
        - An excellent idea, Kevin and Monica  Catrina   May-27-05 02:53 PM   #76 
           - Done with care..  monicab   May-27-05 04:37 PM   #80 
  - What an amazing idea, Thank you Monica.  progressivebydesign   May-27-05 06:13 PM   #84 
  - Gifts from far away are in the form.....  monicab   May-27-05 04:01 PM   #77 
  - How the dialog has continued...  monicab   May-27-05 04:08 PM   #79 
  - Keep the truth alive!  Mugweed   May-27-05 04:07 PM   #78 
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  - Hey Tinoire  merh   May-27-05 05:47 PM   #82 
  - Here you go... Link to first thread:  Tinoire   May-27-05 06:33 PM   #87 
     - We are making a difference, we just have to keep believing  merh   May-27-05 07:06 PM   #88 
  - kick  Swamp Rat   May-27-05 06:28 PM   #85 
  - Because we care..  monicab   May-27-05 10:42 PM   #89 
  - a letter ..  monicab   May-27-05 10:45 PM   #90 
  - I am sincerely grateful for you proving our common humanity.  Just Me   May-27-05 11:16 PM   #92 
  - kicking for friends near and far... n/t  progressivebydesign   May-27-05 11:02 PM   #91 
  - Thank you Kevin, Monica and Democratic Underground  SolarAxi   May-28-05 02:40 AM   #93 
  - rights as I see them  monicab   May-28-05 06:49 AM   #94 
  - Another letter.... regarding Memorial Day...  monicab   May-28-05 07:13 PM   #96 
  - than you so much for this  leftchick   May-28-05 07:21 PM   #97 
  - One of our Iraqi friends sent this......  monicab   May-29-05 07:52 PM   #100 

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