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Reply #150: I didn't bring up those subjects, but I'll take a stab at this one. [View All]

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QC Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-13-05 09:50 PM
Response to Reply #96
150. I didn't bring up those subjects, but I'll take a stab at this one.
Personally, I think the idea of placing a monument to the slaves on the Mall is an excellent one. I'm with you and the original poster on this one.

I think that the indentured/convict labor issue is an important one for several reasons. One is that it's a very ugly chapter in our own history that not one American in a hundred knows the slightest thing about. Schoolbooks gloss over it, lest the kiddies start getting ideas about whether this is really a place where anyone who works hard can get ahead. The truth of the matter is that at least half of the early European settlers of this country, and by some estimates even three-quarters, came in bondage. In the early years, the majority of those died within a very short time. Only a tiny fraction of them ever got their fifty acres and became independent farmers. The vast majority died under indenture or became the ancestors of today's poor white class, a group of people that even exquisitely "enlightened liberals and progressives" feel free to dump on, as we see every day right here at DU. Well, "rednecks" and "white trash" are products of their history, like everyone else, and if we are going to bring some measure of justice to this country we need to know that history.

Second, I'm one of those hopelessly old-fashioned lefties who believe that class still matters. I think it's important for people to know that this country was built on bonded labor, and that those who were in charge were willing to exploit anyone they could get their hands on. Sounds kinda like the world we live in today, doesn't it?

Third, I believe that most modern American lefties just aren't very good on class issues. We can riff on race and gender until the cows come home, but class is mostly forgotten. The history of those colonials in bondage is an excellent reminder of how powerful class has been and remains. If we are ever going to build a coalition that can take this country back, we are going to have to get up to speed on class again.

Last, American racism is a product of the class system that predated it. It's hard to understand racism without understanding the social dynamics that brought it into being.

So yeah, I'm with you on the need for a tangible commemoration of the slaves who helped build this country, but I think that exploitation takes many forms, all of which genuine progressives need to know about. That's why I'm always willing to discuss the subjects of indentured servitude, convict labor, sharecropping, tenant farming, etc.
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  -There should be a monument honoring Black slaves. Jara sang  May-13-05 07:30 AM   #0 
  - Boy, would that piss off the right-wing.  onehandle   May-13-05 07:36 AM   #1 
  - Absolutely! And there should be a monument honoring all the  0007   May-13-05 07:42 AM   #2 
  - yes, yes, yes & yes n/t  G_j   May-13-05 07:49 AM   #3 
  - I like it. What a great idea. nt  bemildred   May-13-05 07:55 AM   #4 
  - I was going to suggest one for Native Americans as well.  Jara sang   May-13-05 09:01 AM   #13 
     - I agree for blacks but,  William Bloode   May-13-05 04:50 PM   #78 
        - I'd suggest less a monument to the native peoples but a  neweurope   May-14-05 01:10 PM   #168 
  - How about a monument...  Deep13   May-13-05 07:57 AM   #5 
  - I'm for reparations  Jara sang   May-13-05 08:58 AM   #12 
  - exactly  realisticphish   May-13-05 10:06 AM   #14 
  - I'm also for reparations ...  Kweli4Real   May-13-05 01:47 PM   #33 
     - Reparations will never happen in our lifetime  Horse with no Name   May-13-05 02:17 PM   #45 
  - The problem with reparations  XemaSab   May-13-05 09:44 PM   #149 
  - Great idea.  MuseRider   May-13-05 08:00 AM   #6 
  - There's one in Detroit  noonwitch   May-13-05 08:13 AM   #7 
  - Wasn't the Statue of Liberty  Village Idiot   May-13-05 08:25 AM   #8 
  - Nope. The story has been flying around the 'Net for years. Check Snopes  mcscajun   May-13-05 06:32 PM   #116 
  - Sounds good to me, however  MadHound   May-13-05 08:27 AM   #9 
  - Interesting that you would compare indentured servitude...  tx_dem41   May-13-05 10:13 AM   #17 
  - I was waiting for somebody to bite, thanks  MadHound   May-13-05 10:51 AM   #18 
  - The Chinese who built the railroads weren't much better off.  UdoKier   May-13-05 01:01 PM   #19 
  - I'm not saying that at all friend,  MadHound   May-13-05 01:10 PM   #21 
  - no one is saying that: EXCEPT YOU  noiretblu   May-13-05 04:57 PM   #81 
  - Checking the first website  Lurking_Argyle   May-13-05 06:40 PM   #117 
  - Zinn is almost as well-known and respected among progressives as Chomsky.  UdoKier   May-13-05 07:42 PM   #119 
     - Re-read your own posts  Lurking_Argyle   May-14-05 01:22 AM   #157 
        - I'm not familiar with Hoffman, and was not interested in those links.  UdoKier   May-14-05 05:27 PM   #179 
  - Madhound: Why are you posting links to WHITE SUPREMACISTS?  ultraist   May-13-05 07:54 PM   #121 
     - Yes, Hoffman is a white supremacist, but the facts about  QC   May-13-05 08:21 PM   #127 
  - I agree tx_dem41  ultraist   May-13-05 02:04 PM   #38 
     - Nice to see that you're buying into the revisionist history friend,  MadHound   May-13-05 02:12 PM   #41 
     - There are not only "two major differences"  ultraist   May-13-05 02:41 PM   #47 
        - I think you might benefit by a closer examination of this issue,  MadHound   May-13-05 04:57 PM   #80 
           - Racism and classism  ultraist   May-13-05 05:20 PM   #93 
     - Hi Ultraist.  tx_dem41   May-13-05 02:13 PM   #42 
  - yeah  mark414   May-14-05 01:13 AM   #156 
  - That is an outstanding idea.  BullGooseLoony   May-13-05 08:27 AM   #10 
  - There already is. The foundation of the U.S. Capitol was built by slaves  leveymg   May-13-05 08:28 AM   #11 
  - I think that they deserve better than a "plaque"...  LiberallyInclined   May-13-05 01:42 PM   #31 
     - Most people would prefer cash to a new monument. Reparations. n/t  leveymg   May-13-05 05:25 PM   #97 
        - direct cash reparations will never, and should never, happen...  LiberallyInclined   May-13-05 08:36 PM   #128 
  - OMG! Great Fucking Idea! Nominated!  DistressedAmerican   May-13-05 10:09 AM   #15 
  - Deleted message  Name removed   May-13-05 10:11 AM   #16 
  - Here we go.  Terran   May-13-05 01:05 PM   #20 
  - Deleted message  Name removed   May-13-05 01:13 PM   #22 
     - "Why only to BLACK slaves?"  Terran   May-13-05 01:22 PM   #23 
     - No, those are ways of giving positive recognition to a culture.  UdoKier   May-13-05 01:26 PM   #24 
     - No, sorry  Terran   May-13-05 01:33 PM   #25 
     - "African-Americans, as a group, still are."  UdoKier   May-13-05 01:42 PM   #30 
     - DENIAL!  ultraist   May-13-05 02:13 PM   #43 
     - Revealing,yes.  UdoKier   May-13-05 02:24 PM   #46 
        - Wow  Terran   May-13-05 03:48 PM   #67 
        - I would have no problem with reparation, but only in one of 2 ways  UdoKier   May-13-05 04:02 PM   #70 
           - do you know that many black people didn't have birth certificates  noiretblu   May-13-05 04:55 PM   #79 
              - How about reparations to all citizens who were denied the vote?  UdoKier   May-13-05 07:50 PM   #120 
                 - that's just fiine with me...reparations for everyone!!!!!!  noiretblu   May-14-05 03:56 PM   #174 
                    - Wow.  UdoKier   May-14-05 05:18 PM   #178 
                       - are reparations *generally* based on income?  noiretblu   May-14-05 05:31 PM   #180 
                          - That's because reparations are usually paid to living victims...  UdoKier   May-14-05 06:22 PM   #182 
                             - gee..if only the enslavers had your wisdom  noiretblu   May-14-05 06:36 PM   #183 
                                - Winding up...  UdoKier   May-14-05 09:17 PM   #184 
                                - nice revision of your position  noiretblu   May-14-05 09:58 PM   #186 
        - Race matters  ultraist   May-13-05 05:04 PM   #85 
     - Sigh  Terran   May-13-05 03:30 PM   #51 
     - It should not be about black or white  dogday   May-13-05 01:45 PM   #32 
     - That is such bullshit.  Jara sang   May-13-05 02:02 PM   #37 
        - Thousands died building the west  UdoKier   May-13-05 02:16 PM   #44 
           - get a grip  SlavesandBulldozers   May-13-05 04:28 PM   #74 
           - Thank you so much!  Jara sang   May-13-05 04:59 PM   #82 
           - it's fucking amazing isn't it?  noiretblu   May-13-05 05:14 PM   #90 
              - honestly i didn't expect to see this coming from DU'ers  SlavesandBulldozers   May-13-05 05:23 PM   #95 
                 - Oh, I did.  ultraist   May-13-05 05:30 PM   #100 
                 - DU is a microcosm  noiretblu   May-13-05 05:31 PM   #101 
                 - Not really...  misanthrope   May-14-05 12:51 PM   #167 
                    - we are a part of "average america"  noiretblu   May-14-05 03:44 PM   #173 
                 - It happens all the time  Tomee450   May-13-05 05:51 PM   #109 
           - UdoKier --- Take a moment to reflect what is being written to you.  Kerrytravelers   May-16-05 11:03 AM   #189 
     - A quick question on that - why not american indian history month?  The Straight Story   May-13-05 08:47 PM   #129 
        - Why is it that when something  Tomee450   May-13-05 09:01 PM   #132 
        - Why is it that some people  The Straight Story   May-13-05 09:35 PM   #146 
           - Just tell me what group  Tomee450   May-13-05 09:50 PM   #151 
              - Other Groups?  The Straight Story   May-13-05 10:07 PM   #154 
        - I agree with you completely  FinallyStartingToWin   May-13-05 09:19 PM   #139 
        - National American Indian Heritage Month already exists.  SemiCharmedQuark   May-14-05 11:00 AM   #163 
        - thank you for correcting my error!  The Straight Story   May-14-05 10:09 PM   #188 
        - ixnay on the onthmay  wtmusic   May-14-05 11:55 AM   #165 
     - Did I say ONLY Black slaves deserve recognition?  Jara sang   May-13-05 02:01 PM   #36 
     - No, the OP did.  UdoKier   May-13-05 03:39 PM   #60 
        - really?  SlavesandBulldozers   May-13-05 05:12 PM   #89 
     - Becuase they carried the burden of slavery AFTER slavery was over!!!  jeffrey_X   May-13-05 03:46 PM   #65 
        - LOL, Yeah,and after the railroads were build, Asians were treated equally!  UdoKier   May-13-05 04:05 PM   #71 
           - How many innocent asians have been convicted of crimes they didn't  jeffrey_X   May-13-05 04:31 PM   #75 
           - you cannot be serious  SlavesandBulldozers   May-13-05 04:33 PM   #76 
           - decided to bow out of this debate i guess  SlavesandBulldozers   May-13-05 05:26 PM   #98 
           - exactly  ultraist   May-13-05 06:04 PM   #113 
           - No one is saying that Asians and other minorities haven't been treated  wildeyed   May-13-05 05:21 PM   #94 
           - you must have missed the reparations paid to japanese americans  noiretblu   May-13-05 05:34 PM   #103 
           - Reparations were strictly for the forced repatriation.  UdoKier   May-13-05 07:54 PM   #122 
              - how, exactly, would it be "racist?"  noiretblu   May-14-05 03:40 PM   #172 
           - Only Chinese men were allowed to come here  XemaSab   May-13-05 09:22 PM   #140 
  - Hey, Black slavery is the most notorious.  Jara sang   May-13-05 01:59 PM   #35 
  - No, white slaves didn't come here of their own free will  MadHound   May-13-05 02:06 PM   #39 
  - I know the history  Jara sang   May-13-05 03:28 PM   #50 
     - Many whites didn't come here of their own free will  MadHound   May-13-05 05:04 PM   #86 
     - i fail to understand your argument  noiretblu   May-13-05 05:15 PM   #91 
        - Nothing  ultraist   May-13-05 05:48 PM   #108 
     - No, you clearly don't know the history,  QC   May-13-05 05:40 PM   #105 
  - Did they? I don't think that they all did...  UdoKier   May-13-05 02:11 PM   #40 
     - You don't think?  Terran   May-13-05 03:38 PM   #59 
        - I only omitted them because the topic is slavery.  UdoKier   May-13-05 03:57 PM   #69 
        - "An atrocity is an atrocity"  Terran   May-13-05 04:09 PM   #72 
        - the topic the OP posed was about BLACK slavery  noiretblu   May-13-05 05:28 PM   #99 
        - If you think Native Americans  XemaSab   May-13-05 09:24 PM   #142 
        - The only people who have a problem with Zinn are reactionaries  QC   May-13-05 05:47 PM   #107 
  - How many whites are born in the ghetto and oppressed from day 1?  jeffrey_X   May-13-05 03:44 PM   #62 
  - Have one honor the blacks who fought for the Union in the Civil War  ArtVandaley   May-13-05 01:35 PM   #26 
  - Or if you want to watch freepers and racists heads explode  MadHound   May-13-05 01:38 PM   #27 
  - you mean like this one?  northzax   May-16-05 11:18 AM   #191 
  - There should be a monument  Divameow77   May-13-05 01:41 PM   #28 
  - Hear hear!  MadHound   May-13-05 01:42 PM   #29 
  - Then just make it...  misanthrope   May-13-05 02:43 PM   #48 
  - Yes slavery is a horrible institution  Jara sang   May-13-05 03:33 PM   #55 
  - Sorry. Killers are much more popular than builders.  Tierra_y_Libertad   May-13-05 01:55 PM   #34 
  - A monument to the Native Americans (my ancestors)...  Zhade   May-13-05 03:14 PM   #49 
  - Indeed, a monument and a whole lot more. n/t  Jara sang   May-13-05 03:30 PM   #53 
     - Yeah, like decent living conditions for one.  Zhade   May-13-05 03:44 PM   #63 
        - I've driven through Pine Ridge and the Navajo Nation.  Jara sang   May-14-05 09:19 PM   #185 
  - Love the idea of the statue straddling the Potomac  wildeyed   May-13-05 03:30 PM   #52 
  - It is the Capitol dome actually.  Jara sang   May-13-05 03:31 PM   #54 
     - I like the bridge image of bringing together,  wildeyed   May-13-05 05:00 PM   #83 
  - There is no monument to slavery on the mall? Wow! I can't believe  applegrove   May-13-05 03:34 PM   #56 
  - No, but there is a MLK plaque on the mall  ultraist   May-13-05 05:59 PM   #111 
     - Wow! That is really harsh. Wonder why Rice doesn't get on that right  applegrove   May-14-05 04:58 PM   #177 
  - This is a great idea  KT2000   May-13-05 03:35 PM   #57 
  - I'm all for the idea, but it will never happen  DeaconBlues   May-13-05 03:36 PM   #58 
  - We have a Holocaust museum (?!?!) but our own atrocities go unnoticed  DerekG   May-13-05 03:42 PM   #61 
  - i was going to try to tie into the Native American holocaust in this post.  Jara sang   May-13-05 05:03 PM   #84 
  - Now that is a great idea.  Ellen Forradalom   May-13-05 03:44 PM   #64 
  - This is a great idea!  jeffrey_X   May-13-05 03:46 PM   #66 
  - Excellent idea! Who's going to get this going?  funflower   May-13-05 03:50 PM   #68 
  - I totally agree  DemBeans   May-13-05 04:13 PM   #73 
  - I whole heartedly agree!  William Bloode   May-13-05 04:44 PM   #77 
  - fuck a would never happen anyway  noiretblu   May-13-05 05:09 PM   #87 
  - And as well the american indians  sweetheart   May-13-05 05:11 PM   #88 
  - i have to agree, sweetheart  noiretblu   May-13-05 05:18 PM   #92 
  - to those bringing up indians, chinese, and indentured servants  noiretblu   May-13-05 05:23 PM   #96 
  - reparations for injustice as a form of justice  sweetheart   May-13-05 05:33 PM   #102 
  - sweetheart, thanks for replying  noiretblu   May-13-05 05:44 PM   #106 
     - Long term problems require strategic measures  sweetheart   May-13-05 05:56 PM   #110 
  - I didn't bring up those subjects, but I'll take a stab at this one.  QC   May-13-05 09:50 PM   #150 
     - thanks for your response, QC  noiretblu   May-14-05 04:10 PM   #176 
  - Where should it be erected?  eleny   May-13-05 05:40 PM   #104 
  - How about a giant statue of Dr. Martin Luther King, Jr.  Swamp Rat   May-13-05 06:00 PM   #112 
  - There's a VERY large  XemaSab   May-13-05 09:32 PM   #145 
     - Not big enough!  Swamp Rat   May-14-05 02:04 AM   #159 
  - Deleted message  Name removed   May-13-05 06:26 PM   #114 
  - interesting belief  noiretblu   May-13-05 06:40 PM   #118 
  - Deleted message  Name removed   May-13-05 08:03 PM   #123 
     - You implied slaves did not contribute economically  ultraist   May-13-05 08:09 PM   #124 
        - Deleted message  Name removed   May-13-05 08:18 PM   #126 
           - No, the bolding in the middle  Tomee450   May-13-05 08:53 PM   #130 
              - Deleted message  Name removed   May-13-05 08:56 PM   #131 
                 - You see what you want to see  Tomee450   May-13-05 09:07 PM   #134 
                    - Deleted message  Name removed   May-13-05 09:14 PM   #136 
  - You are woefully ignorant of the facts.  Jara sang   May-13-05 09:15 PM   #137 
     - Deleted message  Name removed   May-13-05 09:24 PM   #141 
     - Do you believe the killing of Native Americans was genocide? n/t  Jara sang   May-13-05 09:30 PM   #143 
     - "Farming requires no skills"  QC   May-13-05 10:01 PM   #152 
     - Yes, 2 million Africans died during the Middle passage alone!  ultraist   May-13-05 09:31 PM   #144 
        - Agreed, it is a hard habit to break.  Jara sang   May-13-05 09:38 PM   #148 
  - Yup.  youthere   May-13-05 06:28 PM   #115 
  - There is a beautiful Civil Rights Monument in Montgomery, AL  peacebaby3   May-13-05 08:10 PM   #125 
  - SPLC is a great organization! n/t  Pushed To The Left   May-13-05 09:11 PM   #135 
  - I would like to walk the Selma to Montgomery trail  Jara sang   May-13-05 09:17 PM   #138 
     - I have with President Clinton.  peacebaby3   May-14-05 07:49 AM   #160 
        - Clinton made his magnificent "son of the south" speech on the bridge  oasis   May-14-05 01:16 PM   #170 
  - Awesome post! Kick!  journalist3072   May-13-05 09:02 PM   #133 
  - There is one in Savannah, GA  alphafemale   May-13-05 09:37 PM   #147 
  - Hey, I' a monument artist w/20 years' experience...  spacelady   May-13-05 10:06 PM   #153 
  - i think it's a great idea and would love to see your vision...  NuttyFluffers   May-14-05 02:03 AM   #158 
     - John Biggers  ultraist   May-14-05 11:40 AM   #164 
  - There should be...and they should be replace every confederate  izzybeans   May-13-05 10:19 PM   #155 
  - Absolutely!  laura888   May-14-05 08:00 AM   #161 
  - YES! An absolutely terrific idea!  tom_paine   May-14-05 08:08 AM   #162 
  - If you really want a monument, how about slaves?  sweetheart   May-14-05 12:11 PM   #166 
  - There certainly should be.  neweurope   May-14-05 01:11 PM   #169 
  - HERE IS ONE!!!!!  Notorious Bohemian   May-14-05 01:17 PM   #171 
  - I think that is a great idea  Book Lover   May-14-05 04:06 PM   #175 
  - I really like the 'Colossus' idea, great post n/t  entanglement   May-14-05 05:58 PM   #181 
  - I'll tell ya something else - MLK should be on currency of some sort  HEyHEY   May-14-05 10:00 PM   #187 
  - I disagree  northzax   May-16-05 11:11 AM   #190 
  - A wonderful idea- unfortunately, a thread that went out of control  Kerrytravelers   May-16-05 11:19 AM   #192 
  - Good Idea  BronxBoy   May-16-05 12:17 PM   #193 

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