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Reply #60: Denial. They're mainly in denial, and interpret their beliefs and [View All]

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Eloriel Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun May-01-05 07:48 PM
Response to Original message
60. Denial. They're mainly in denial, and interpret their beliefs and
actions as GOOD for everyone and everything when in fact it's mostly just self-serving garbage.

I think your term neotheocons is quite clever but after a few minutes' consideration, I want to make sure everyone understands that the neocons and the theocrats basically USE one another, they're not really one and the same. That's because the neocons respect religion as something of what Lenin called it: the opiate of the masses. The neocons see it as very useful for keeping the common man (and woman), to whom they are vastly superior, enthralled and busy and "moral" enough so that they can do what THEY do best (they believe), which is rule the masses.

And they RULE the masses in part by lying to them -- but you see, their lies are not only okay, they're required. The masses must not be told the truth, lest it be bad for them. Only the pure, the uber moral, the rulers are good enough to be trusted with the truth.

And so forth and so on. Their philosophy is really something to behold. It's worth understanding, and in case anyone doesn't understand some of the basics about neocon thought and political beliefs, I'll add some links. The key thing to note, I think, is that their belief system makes them unreachable. It makes them sociopaths, without guilt or conscience (or maybe they already are), and so there's NO WAY to appeal to them on the basis of truth. You can't tell them they're wrong, they're convinced they're right and that they're superior enough that THEIR belief is the correct one; they believe they have not just the right but the obligation to deceive, so deception is the rule of the day and you can't guilt-trip them out of it. They're unreachable.

They're also fascists. Their founder, Leo Strauss, was Jewish and had to leave Nazi Germany himself, but was also much enthralled with fascism -- in fact, so enthralled that he wished for a fascism that wasn't anti-Semitic, a fasicsm that included Jews, a fascism that was "universal." One of his students, Michael Ledeen, later wrote a book by that title: Universal Fascism. Alas, I haven't read it. I'd like to, but I'm also reminded of the fact that these Straussians, these neocons, are said to write in a very obtuse, non-disclosing style which masks their true intent unless you know the code.

A few links:

WAKE UP! - Strauss / Neocons and Terror PLUS dire warnings

Leo Strauss and the Noble Lie: The Neo-Cons at War -- Leo Strauss and the History of Political Thought
(with Discussion Forums! Book Reviews and a News Blog)

Leo Strauss' Philosophy of Deception
By Jim Lobe, AlterNet. Posted May 19, 2003.
linked to from this thread: Has Straussian ideology permeated the GOP?

Eurolegal Services - Neoconservatives
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  -Do you think the neotheocons are evil, or just wrong? leftofthedial  May-01-05 01:21 PM   #0 
  - "Stupidity is the same as evil if you judge by the results."  TahitiNut   May-01-05 01:24 PM   #1 
  - I agree  leftofthedial   May-01-05 01:41 PM   #20 
  - But if you judge by intentions, it's not  Psephos   May-01-05 02:16 PM   #29 
     - I think intent can only be inferred, not known. (See below.)  TahitiNut   May-01-05 02:32 PM   #35 
     - but if you are ana ccomplice to a first-degree murder  leftofthedial   May-01-05 05:34 PM   #53 
        - Good point  Psephos   May-01-05 07:17 PM   #54 
  - Both!!  Missy M   May-01-05 01:24 PM   #2 
  - I agree.  BrklynLiberal   May-01-05 01:26 PM   #4 
  - But do you think they really believe their philospohy is correct  leftofthedial   May-01-05 01:37 PM   #17 
     - I don't know how they can think their philosophy is correct....  Missy M   May-01-05 01:49 PM   #24 
     - I think intent can only be inferred, not known.  TahitiNut   May-01-05 02:19 PM   #30 
  - both--self righteous blather covers agenda of theft  yurbud   May-01-05 01:26 PM   #3 
  - 200% Evil  Double T   May-01-05 01:26 PM   #5 
  - Agreed  specimenfred1984   May-01-05 02:04 PM   #27 
  - Both  BamaLefty   May-01-05 01:27 PM   #6 
  - most arre just wrong. Fallen prey to the scam. The ones who understand  burn the bush   May-01-05 01:27 PM   #7 
  - Completely EVIL  Rick Myers   May-01-05 01:28 PM   #8 
  - Pure Evil is wrong  PowerToThePeople   May-01-05 01:29 PM   #9 
  - Definitely evil.  The Backlash Cometh   May-01-05 01:29 PM   #10 
  - Reaganism run amok?  leftofthedial   May-01-05 01:38 PM   #18 
  - Well said. but "western-style Libertarianism" is not bad either.  The Backlash Cometh   May-02-05 05:11 AM   #74 
  - Deleted message  Name removed   May-01-05 03:29 PM   #40 
     - Think about it.  alittlelark   May-01-05 11:38 PM   #68 
        - Geez. I missed all the fun.  The Backlash Cometh   May-02-05 05:08 AM   #73 
  - Undoubtedly, they have convinced themselves of their "rightness".  Just Me   May-01-05 01:30 PM   #11 
  - Good Question  Steel City Slim   May-01-05 01:31 PM   #12 
  - Evil.  Merope215   May-01-05 01:34 PM   #13 
  - Deleted message  Name removed   May-01-05 03:30 PM   #41 
     - No  Merope215   May-01-05 03:35 PM   #46 
  - Ever see the Twilight Zone episode "To Serve Man" ?  Chipper Chat   May-01-05 01:34 PM   #14 
  - Interesting spin  Wizard777   May-01-05 02:30 PM   #34 
  - Perhaps a little of both.  demgurl   May-01-05 01:35 PM   #15 
  - That would have been my saying ten years ago or so  leftofthedial   May-01-05 01:39 PM   #19 
  - They believe they are doing the "right things"...for themselves.  tmooses   May-01-05 01:35 PM   #16 
  - I don't believe in evil.  Finder   May-01-05 01:42 PM   #21 
  - What do you believe are the ends they are trying to achieve?  Just Me   May-01-05 01:44 PM   #22 
  - *  agitprop   May-01-05 03:31 PM   #44 
  - I believe in evil...  Missy M   May-01-05 01:51 PM   #25 
  - yeah. what good ends?  leftofthedial   May-01-05 02:02 PM   #26 
  - Good post  Psephos   May-01-05 02:24 PM   #32 
  - Deleted message  Name removed   May-01-05 03:33 PM   #45 
  - "evil" is the only word I can think of that describes the reality  leftofthedial   May-01-05 05:02 PM   #51 
  - Deleted message  Name removed   May-01-05 03:19 PM   #38 
  - they know not what they do  seabeyond   May-01-05 01:49 PM   #23 
  - I think a huge number of Murkans are willfully, even aggressively ignorant  leftofthedial   May-01-05 02:26 PM   #33 
     - cherished prejudices and superstitions to be a load of bunk.  seabeyond   May-01-05 03:06 PM   #37 
  - The Leaders are Evil, the sheep are just stupid.  johnaries   May-01-05 02:11 PM   #28 
  - They have been deceived by evil. Now they are the deceivers of man.  Wizard777   May-01-05 02:22 PM   #31 
  - rephrase question  enid602   May-01-05 02:43 PM   #36 
  - Deleted message  Name removed   May-01-05 03:21 PM   #39 
  - Nope still don't understand.  walldude   May-01-05 03:31 PM   #43 
     - How about an American who now has to live under a Constitution  leftofthedial   May-01-05 04:27 PM   #48 
  - Evil in the same way the Nazi inner party members were-and corrupt,  bobthedrummer   May-01-05 03:30 PM   #42 
  - I think the whole lot should imprisoned  leftofthedial   May-01-05 04:23 PM   #47 
  - Evil.  me b zola   May-01-05 04:54 PM   #49 
  - They are wrong, evil alien lizards.  Swamp Rat   May-01-05 05:02 PM   #50 
  - do you need special sunglasses to see them as they really are?  leftofthedial   May-01-05 05:25 PM   #52 
  - I believe that the people at the top are sociopaths  Lydia Leftcoast   May-01-05 07:30 PM   #55 
  - I used to believe that they believed they were doing the right thing  Bouncy Ball   May-01-05 07:32 PM   #56 
  - Given some more time, the most evil people to have ever lived. nt/  Walt Starr   May-01-05 07:32 PM   #57 
  - we agree  leftofthedial   May-01-05 07:36 PM   #58 
  - To say that they're "evil" buys into the same absolutism/mysticism  Cats Against Frist   May-01-05 07:37 PM   #59 
  - I like it! n/t  Psephos   May-01-05 07:49 PM   #61 
  - Denial. They're mainly in denial, and interpret their beliefs and  Eloriel   May-01-05 07:48 PM   #60 
  - Was the preacher that lead the lemmings in Poltergeist evil?  CanOfWhoopAss   May-01-05 07:49 PM   #62 
  - Evil. Wrong too.  Cobalt Violet   May-01-05 07:52 PM   #63 
  - DEPENDS - Hitler thought he was doing the best thing for his people  clem_c_rock   May-01-05 09:09 PM   #64 
  - so when any random bushbot goes on TV and lies his ass off  leftofthedial   May-01-05 11:09 PM   #66 
  - Evil and scary  AlwaysDemocrat   May-01-05 09:16 PM   #65 
  - Purely Evil. Sociopaths each and everyone....... n/t  OmmmSweetOmmm   May-01-05 11:12 PM   #67 
  - 99% evil, 100% wrong n/t  entanglement   May-01-05 11:40 PM   #69 
  - Evil...totally evil  Digit   May-01-05 11:49 PM   #70 
  - read "the Despoiling of America" and you'll never doubt they're evil  kodi   May-01-05 11:53 PM   #71 
  - Evil. Racists. Mass murderers. Greedy pigs. Fools. Cowards.  oblivious   May-02-05 12:35 AM   #72 

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