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thinkingwoman Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-06-05 11:09 PM
Response to Reply #116
145. thanks for the links
they made for interesting reading. I visited each of them and read through all of the material provided on each. Here are some of my thoughts on your evidence:

http://www.pbs.org/independentlens/newamericans/quiz.ht ...
This is a quiz about immigrants. From the tone of the questions and answers, it appears to be about legal immigrants, which makes the information largely irrelevant when used in a discussion about illegal immigrants.

Nevertheless...here are a few quotes I found interesting:

"Of the 175 million migrants in the world, the U.S. admitted 1,063,732 documented immigrants in 2002. Undocumented immigration adds approximately 350,000 people per year by INS estimates."

Whether or not 350,000 people constitute a flood is obviously up to interpretation.

"Of the approximately 1.4 million immigrants who entered the U.S. in 2002, only about 25 percent came illegally. Although these figures do not account for some homeless immigrants and undocumented migrant workers who return to their native countries when their seasonal work is over, the proportion of illegal immigrants to legal immigrants is still quite small."

This clearly states that 25% of the 1.4 million immigrants who entered this country in 2002 came here illegally. Doing some "light math", 25% of 1.4 mill comes to roughly 250,000 (if my computer calculator is accurate). This number is different than the 350,000 given just a couple of answers earlier, and yet the end result is the same...whether that number constitutes a flood is up to interpretation.

I like the last sentence of the answer above, because it says so much about opinion vs. fact. It admits that the 25% of 1.4 million does NOT include "homeless immigrants and undocumented migrant workers" who cross back over the borders, and yet claims that the proportion of illegal to legal "is still quite small." If the actual number is unknown, but the known number is 25%, it cannot possibly be "quite small." It's, at the very least, 1/4 of all immigrants.

"... in 2000, immigrants made up a little more than 11 percent of the population."

Darn it, I missed this question. I answered 6% instead. Bummer. I also underestimated the percentage of their income that they send back to their home country. But despite those answers revealing a bias on my part TOWARD illegal immigrants instead of AGAINST them, I did pretty well on the quiz.


http://www.commondreams.org/views05/0404-27.htm
This is the link to the anti-minutemen article on Common Dreams. Now, I love this site, but it is not a news source.

Nevertheless, I found these quotes interesting:

"According to the US Census administered in 2000, there are approximately 8,705,419 non-legal foreign-born persons living in the US. Of that number, 4,787,980 were from countries other than Mexico. In fact, almost 40% of all US immigrants were not even Hispanic"

Ok, they say 8,705,419 non-legals in 2000, with 4,787,980 from "countries other than Mexico. Doing a little "light math," that means that the Common Dreams article says that there were 3,917,439 illegal immigrants from Mexico living in the U.S. in 2000. Hmmm, that's a bigger number than the one cited by PBS, but, of course, there was a disclaimer--"Note: this number includes 'people who are here legally but are not yet included in the official estimates of legal migrants and refugees. It also includes people in 'quasi-legal' status who are awaiting action on their legal migration requests.' That makes the number rather meaningless, then.


http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A55202-20 ...
Oh goodie, the Washington Post. They never get anything wrong or spread propaganda of any sort. Sigh. Still, here are some interesting quotes from your source that contradict your opinion...no "light math" required.

"Mexicans Make Up Largest Group; D.C. Area Numbers Up 70 Percent Since 2000"

That was the sub-head, which is often inflammatory or sensationalistic, so I kept reading...

"Despite tighter border enforcement and a post-Sept. 11, 2001, economic slump, the number of illegal immigrants in the United States has continued to grow steadily..."

Okay, and then this...

"Based on Census Bureau and other government data, the Pew Hispanic Center, a private research group in Washington, estimated the number of undocumented immigrants at 10.3 million as of last March, an increase of 23 percent from the 8.4 million estimate in 2000. More than 50 percent of that growth was attributable to Mexican nationals living illegally in the United States, the report said."

An estimated 10.3 million "udocumented immigrants' now? With "more than 50 percent of that growth was attributable to Mexican nationals living illegally in the United States" as the follow up sentence? Did you really provide this link as evidence that there was NO FLOOD of immigrants? Seriously?

But there was more...

"Mexicans remain the largest group of illegal migrants, at 5.9 million or about 57 percent of the March 2004 estimate, the report said."

and this gem...

"Angela Kelley, deputy director of the National Immigration Forum, which favors a plan to legalize illegal immigrants, said the continued growth of that population simply shows that current immigration policy 'is broken.'"

Wowie. I read this last article twice, giving you the benefit of the doubt that it somehow bolstered your opinion, but alas I could not see how. Please feel free to point out where I was blind. It is getting late and I've had a little to drink.

This has been fun reading. And light math is always a pleasure, but you have offered no evidence to support your opinion. None.

The best you could do is argue that 250,000 (the smallest number offered by any of your sources) is not a flood. Many would disagree with you, but you are certainly entitled to that opinion.

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  -There IS no flood of Mexican immigrants across the border. SemiCharmedQuark  Apr-06-05 07:43 PM   #0 
  - there are alot here doing labor after the hurricanes  7th_Sephiroth   Apr-06-05 07:47 PM   #1 
  - Oh well, that cinches it then, they must be illegals.  SemiCharmedQuark   Apr-06-05 07:49 PM   #2 
  - i asked one  7th_Sephiroth   Apr-06-05 07:52 PM   #5 
  - Oh well then, my mistake...I guess that proves a flood.  SemiCharmedQuark   Apr-06-05 07:53 PM   #7 
  - i speak a little  7th_Sephiroth   Apr-06-05 08:07 PM   #23 
     - Do you not see the problem here, known as  Cleita   Apr-06-05 09:56 PM   #106 
        - i have been trying to get acess to this company  7th_Sephiroth   Apr-06-05 10:06 PM   #113 
  - Okay--they SNEAK across the border  Horse with no Name   Apr-06-05 08:25 PM   #41 
     - i saw a guy with a large roll of cash  7th_Sephiroth   Apr-06-05 08:30 PM   #46 
     - Totally doesn't make sense  ultraist   Apr-06-05 08:35 PM   #53 
        - Reminds me  Tomee450   Apr-06-05 10:02 PM   #110 
           - I thought they were the welfare queens Reagan tried to  Cleita   Apr-06-05 10:12 PM   #120 
              - True,  Tomee450   Apr-07-05 12:45 AM   #155 
  - Also remember that , part of the time, the motive is harassment  tubbacheez   Apr-06-05 07:57 PM   #11 
  - They have the same model of truck? Omigod, that proves it!  Redstone   Apr-06-05 07:51 PM   #3 
  - There are lots of areas of Texas  Horse with no Name   Apr-06-05 08:22 PM   #39 
  - The sense of "invasion" is usually the perceiver's own fault.  tubbacheez   Apr-06-05 07:52 PM   #4 
  - Sorry, but we are being overrun.  Placebo   Apr-06-05 07:53 PM   #6 
  - Why don't you go ahead and post the numbers?  SemiCharmedQuark   Apr-06-05 07:54 PM   #8 
     - here:  Placebo   Apr-06-05 07:57 PM   #10 
     - Notice it says "combined"  SemiCharmedQuark   Apr-06-05 08:00 PM   #14 
     - okay Santa Claus.  Placebo   Apr-06-05 08:02 PM   #17 
     - Sure, here you go:  SemiCharmedQuark   Apr-06-05 08:05 PM   #21 
     - Okay...  Placebo   Apr-06-05 08:10 PM   #28 
        - The Southern Law Poverty Center is biased?  SemiCharmedQuark   Apr-06-05 08:12 PM   #30 
        - I didn't say they were.  Placebo   Apr-06-05 08:16 PM   #32 
        - It's not. No more than it was flooded by the Chinese, the Irish or the  SemiCharmedQuark   Apr-06-05 08:18 PM   #33 
        - or the Greeks.  jdj   Apr-06-05 10:50 PM   #141 
        - Bullshit!  Maestro   Apr-06-05 08:36 PM   #56 
        - Man....  proud_dem   Apr-07-05 09:58 AM   #190 
        - SPLC is a great source.  H2O Man   Apr-06-05 08:43 PM   #65 
        - Then you post some good links Placebo buddy  Maestro   Apr-06-05 08:25 PM   #43 
        - FAIR gets money from the Pioneer Fund, which sponsors eugenics studies  Kathy in Cambridge   Apr-06-05 08:31 PM   #48 
        - Why do some people...  Placebo   Apr-06-05 08:32 PM   # 
           - No, you were looking SPECIFICALLY to point to MExicans as the threat  SemiCharmedQuark   Apr-06-05 08:37 PM   #57 
           - You posted a newspaper article  Maestro   Apr-06-05 08:38 PM   #58 
        - The third isn't just about racists,  Virginian   Apr-07-05 08:50 AM   #183 
     - In terms of making a well-reasoned case  H2O Man   Apr-06-05 08:09 PM   #26 
        - His own source has numbers that are less than 1% of the population.  SemiCharmedQuark   Apr-06-05 08:11 PM   #29 
           - How is 10.3 million people, 1% of the population?  Placebo   Apr-06-05 08:19 PM   #34 
           - Did you read your own artiicle? That is ALL illegals, not just Mexicans  SemiCharmedQuark   Apr-06-05 08:20 PM   #37 
              - Well guess where they're primarily coming from?  Placebo   Apr-06-05 08:24 PM   #40 
                 - The number if illegals from MEXICO is HALF that.  SemiCharmedQuark   Apr-06-05 08:25 PM   #44 
                 - The largest immigrant groups in the Northeast come from:  Kathy in Cambridge   Apr-06-05 08:53 PM   #70 
                    - There are also  H2O Man   Apr-06-05 09:01 PM   #81 
                 - What the hell does that mean?  Maestro   Apr-06-05 08:58 PM   #79 
                 - In the Northeast in the 1970s, most of the illegals were from Ireland  Lydia Leftcoast   Apr-06-05 10:40 PM   #137 
                    - That was also during the peak days of the IRA  Virginian   Apr-07-05 09:04 AM   #187 
           - Sure.  H2O Man   Apr-06-05 08:22 PM   #38 
              - Then why are both borders not watched?  SemiCharmedQuark   Apr-06-05 08:30 PM   #47 
                 - I agree.  H2O Man   Apr-06-05 08:38 PM   #59 
                    - Then I don't think we disagree.  SemiCharmedQuark   Apr-06-05 08:41 PM   #62 
                       - I agree  H2O Man   Apr-06-05 08:55 PM   #74 
     - Good lord, man!  dpibel   Apr-06-05 09:36 PM   #101 
     - There's a rational discussion to be had here  LittleClarkie   Apr-07-05 01:36 AM   #158 
        - With all due respect  dpibel   Apr-07-05 02:50 AM   #165 
           - The OP says there is no flood  LittleClarkie   Apr-07-05 02:55 AM   #166 
              - My family lives and has lived in Harlingen TX for decades  SemiCharmedQuark   Apr-07-05 08:03 AM   #175 
     - I worked with illegals a lot back when it wasn't illegal to  Cleita   Apr-06-05 10:06 PM   #115 
     - It is combining the 3 jurisdictions of the DC metropolitian area.  Virginian   Apr-07-05 08:46 AM   #182 
     - 5.9 million are Mexican  Maestro   Apr-06-05 08:29 PM   #45 
     - That's still a goddamn lot of people  theboss   Apr-06-05 10:00 PM   #108 
        - A goddam lot of people!?  Maestro   Apr-06-05 10:29 PM   #131 
     - It's rather odd  Tomee450   Apr-06-05 10:11 PM   #119 
     - Interesting.  Maestro   Apr-06-05 10:30 PM   #133 
     - 11,000,000? Heck, that's only a little more than the combined population  Zorra   Apr-07-05 12:17 AM   #153 
        - The person per square mile in those states is 1-2.  SemiCharmedQuark   Apr-07-05 08:43 AM   #181 
     - Actually, I'll post them for you.  SemiCharmedQuark   Apr-06-05 07:58 PM   #12 
        - Why did you post your own data...  Placebo   Apr-06-05 08:01 PM   #16 
        - You notice illegal immigration becomes a talking point when the economy is  Kathy in Cambridge   Apr-06-05 08:04 PM   # 
           - Exactly. It always ALWAYS comes up after a recession.  SemiCharmedQuark   Apr-06-05 08:06 PM   #22 
  - I respect your right to believe what you want.  WillowTree   Apr-06-05 07:57 PM   #9 
  - Post the numbers.  SemiCharmedQuark   Apr-06-05 07:59 PM   #13 
  - Agreed.  Placebo   Apr-06-05 08:03 PM   #18 
     - Your own article said gave numbers making them about 1% of the population  SemiCharmedQuark   Apr-06-05 08:08 PM   #24 
     - Whatever Placebo  Maestro   Apr-06-05 08:32 PM   #50 
        - 81% of illegal immigrants...  Placebo   Apr-06-05 08:41 PM   #63 
        - Where'd you get that from? Not from the article you cited earlier  SemiCharmedQuark   Apr-06-05 08:43 PM   #64 
        - So which article gives false information? This uncited one? Or the other  SemiCharmedQuark   Apr-06-05 08:48 PM   #67 
        - So your problem is with Spanish speaking people?  Maestro   Apr-06-05 09:05 PM   #84 
        - They are not distributed equally across the country  theboss   Apr-06-05 10:05 PM   #112 
           - Then I want to see a break down of cities  Maestro   Apr-06-05 10:52 PM   #142 
              - Maybe these people just really like the ones smuggled in for sex trade!  countryjake   Apr-07-05 03:50 AM   #167 
  - Posters have used the Center for Immigration Studies, FAIR,  Kathy in Cambridge   Apr-06-05 08:01 PM   #15 
  - You are WAAAAYYY wrong poster! Border looks like a colony of ants.  lonestarnot   Apr-06-05 08:03 PM   #19 
  - Proof?  Kathy in Cambridge   Apr-06-05 08:08 PM   #25 
  - A colony of ants! Ha ha! They're uninvited pests...parasites.  SemiCharmedQuark   Apr-06-05 08:10 PM   #27 
  - I guess I'm being overly sensitive about this issue  Kathy in Cambridge   Apr-06-05 08:20 PM   #36 
     - In 100 years, people will look back at this and compare it to NINA  SemiCharmedQuark   Apr-06-05 08:25 PM   #42 
     - Worries me cause of what'll happen when they find out deportation...  countryjake   Apr-07-05 06:30 AM   #173 
     - What racism?  Placebo   Apr-06-05 08:33 PM   #51 
     - You haven't seen the other threads  Kathy in Cambridge   Apr-06-05 08:36 PM   #54 
     - Late to the party Placebo  Maestro   Apr-06-05 08:39 PM   #60 
     - I bet he saw the other threads  Kathy in Cambridge   Apr-06-05 08:54 PM   #73 
        - Personally I'm sick of it  Maestro   Apr-06-05 09:01 PM   #82 
     - What racism?  lonestarnot   Apr-06-05 10:25 PM   #128 
        - Well, of course he's legal  Lydia Leftcoast   Apr-06-05 10:44 PM   #139 
           - Are you trying to tell me something? LOL  lonestarnot   Apr-06-05 11:04 PM   #144 
     - Me too  proud2Blib   Apr-06-05 08:33 PM   #52 
        - Why is FAIR involved in state isses?  Kathy in Cambridge   Apr-06-05 08:40 PM   #61 
           - We have been asking the same question since this came out a year or so ago  proud2Blib   Apr-06-05 08:53 PM   #69 
  - numbers are posted above in previous post and these are only estimated  lonestarnot   Apr-06-05 10:28 PM   #130 
  - That is funny  Maestro   Apr-06-05 08:45 PM   #66 
  - Miniscule Men LOL  proud2Blib   Apr-06-05 08:59 PM   #80 
  - Let's see  LittleClarkie   Apr-07-05 01:41 AM   #159 
     - My family lives in....TX!  SemiCharmedQuark   Apr-07-05 08:08 AM   #176 
  - I recommend a book for you  fishnfla   Apr-06-05 08:04 PM   #20 
  - INS estimates 7 million illegal aliens in the U.S. in 2000  Walt Starr   Apr-06-05 08:15 PM   #31 
  - I keep reading this over and over again and yes I see your  Cleita   Apr-06-05 08:32 PM   #49 
  - You propose an explanation, but offer nothing to back it up  Walt Starr   Apr-06-05 08:53 PM   #68 
     - Page two of the report from the highly credible source you provided  Cleita   Apr-06-05 09:42 PM   #104 
  - Well, Yes...  Milspec   Apr-06-05 09:21 PM   #94 
     - What would you consider a flood?  Walt Starr   Apr-06-05 09:36 PM   #102 
  - Exactly.  Cleita   Apr-06-05 08:19 PM   #35 
  - Good point  proud2Blib   Apr-06-05 08:36 PM   #55 
     - Most people of Hispanic origin are NOT illegal aliens  Walt Starr   Apr-06-05 08:56 PM   #75 
     - 100,000 in a country of 290 million is hardly an invasion.  SemiCharmedQuark   Apr-06-05 08:57 PM   #78 
        - Mexico, on the other hand, is quite different from the others.  Walt Starr   Apr-06-05 09:03 PM   #83 
           - Compared to the national population  Maestro   Apr-06-05 09:07 PM   #86 
           - Well, based upon the conservative estimates of the INS, 3% of those  Walt Starr   Apr-06-05 09:14 PM   #90 
           - And the Census Bureau disagrees. Also, where does it say that that  SemiCharmedQuark   Apr-06-05 09:17 PM   #92 
              - I call it conservative because PEW Research says 10.5 million  Walt Starr   Apr-06-05 09:25 PM   #98 
                 - No, it says 10.5 million TOTAL, not Mexicans. It's 5.9 Mil. Mexicans  SemiCharmedQuark   Apr-06-05 09:42 PM   #105 
                    - Right, Pew says 10.5 million total, INS says 7 million total  Walt Starr   Apr-07-05 08:19 AM   #178 
           - 3% of the population are illegal aliens  Walt Starr   Apr-06-05 09:23 PM   #96 
           - Your premise is flawed. Most illegals are on overstayed visas, not  SemiCharmedQuark   Apr-06-05 09:11 PM   #88 
              - Read the link in post #31. You're wrong. n/t  Walt Starr   Apr-06-05 09:12 PM   #89 
                 - Ok, where does it say how many come over the border daily?  SemiCharmedQuark   Apr-06-05 09:15 PM   #91 
                 - Do the math  Walt Starr   Apr-06-05 09:22 PM   #95 
                    - Ok...but that still doesn't take into account that most are overstays.  SemiCharmedQuark   Apr-06-05 09:24 PM   #97 
                       - HAve you got a link to "most are overstays"? n/t  Walt Starr   Apr-06-05 09:25 PM   #99 
                       - Sure. Take the quiz.  SemiCharmedQuark   Apr-06-05 09:41 PM   #103 
                       - Took the quiz. 40% of illegal aliens enter from the Southern border  Walt Starr   Apr-07-05 08:16 AM   #177 
                          - No...350,000 illegals per year and take 40 percent of that.  SemiCharmedQuark   Apr-07-05 08:41 AM   #180 
                             - NO NO NO NO NO, that's NET, after those who were overstaying  Walt Starr   Apr-07-05 08:59 AM   #185 
                                - No, link 31 links to a site that says there is NO way to tell them apart.  SemiCharmedQuark   Apr-07-05 09:01 AM   #186 
                                   - Read the entire document. n/t  Walt Starr   Apr-07-05 10:18 AM   #191 
                       - Hey, quit bringing facts into the argument!  ArkDem   Apr-07-05 09:08 AM   #188 
                       - Also, turn to page 12 of that document linked in post #31  Walt Starr   Apr-06-05 09:33 PM   #100 
                 - Your article says the new method makes it impossible to distinguish  SemiCharmedQuark   Apr-06-05 09:19 PM   #93 
     - In Boston, Dominicans and Salvadorans comprise the majority of Latino  Kathy in Cambridge   Apr-06-05 08:57 PM   #77 
        - One of my good friends at work  proud2Blib   Apr-06-05 09:07 PM   #85 
  - evidence?  thinkingwoman   Apr-06-05 08:54 PM   #71 
  - Uh...yeah. All over this thread.  SemiCharmedQuark   Apr-06-05 08:54 PM   #72 
  - Nice try  thinkingwoman   Apr-06-05 10:01 PM   #109 
     - Ok, since reading through the posts is so difficult, here are some links  SemiCharmedQuark   Apr-06-05 10:07 PM   #116 
        - thanks for the links  thinkingwoman   Apr-06-05 11:09 PM   #145 
           - Like everyone else, you didn't read carefully.  SemiCharmedQuark   Apr-07-05 12:16 AM   #152 
           - Obviously  thinkingwoman   Apr-07-05 12:07 PM   #196 
           - Again, we read the same thing  Maestro   Apr-07-05 05:51 AM   #170 
              - Thank you  thinkingwoman   Apr-07-05 12:04 PM   #194 
  - And if you need some more evidence, here are some DU threads on the topic:  Kathy in Cambridge   Apr-06-05 09:09 PM   #87 
     - DU is a wonderful place  thinkingwoman   Apr-06-05 10:07 PM   #117 
        - Did you even read the threads?  Kathy in Cambridge   Apr-06-05 10:12 PM   #121 
        - I did read  thinkingwoman   Apr-06-05 11:12 PM   #146 
        - It is a mob scene. People posting RW links and arging that  SemiCharmedQuark   Apr-06-05 10:13 PM   #122 
        - I've also seen  thinkingwoman   Apr-06-05 11:15 PM   #147 
           - No, nobody said that illegals crossing is a good thing.  SemiCharmedQuark   Apr-07-05 12:18 AM   #154 
              - sorry  thinkingwoman   Apr-07-05 11:57 AM   #192 
        - No evidence?!?!?!?!?!?!?!  Maestro   Apr-06-05 10:20 PM   #125 
        - Wow that's a lot of exclamation points  thinkingwoman   Apr-06-05 11:18 PM   #149 
        - Of course those of us who have been the victims of racial  Cleita   Apr-06-05 10:26 PM   #129 
           - A lot of opinion  thinkingwoman   Apr-06-05 11:21 PM   #150 
              - EVIDENCE!!!  Cleita   Apr-06-05 11:34 PM   #151 
                 - What is this crap?  thinkingwoman   Apr-07-05 11:59 AM   #193 
                    - ....  Cleita   Apr-07-05 12:07 PM   #195 
  - What a Great Headline n/t  UTUSN   Apr-06-05 08:57 PM   #76 
  - There is no flood  martymar64   Apr-06-05 09:59 PM   #107 
  - Bwahahaha! Excellent Post!  SemiCharmedQuark   Apr-06-05 10:04 PM   #111 
  - As an Anglo  Maestro   Apr-06-05 10:22 PM   #126 
  - Exactly  Tomee450   Apr-07-05 12:56 AM   #157 
     - It's cause all they were taught was to remember the Alamo!  countryjake   Apr-07-05 04:13 AM   #168 
  - I have posted this before. This is my response. I am upset with  tsuki   Apr-06-05 10:06 PM   #114 
  - Mind your own business?  Cleita   Apr-06-05 10:09 PM   #118 
  - I don't know. Mind your own business? Sometimes, I wish it were  tsuki   Apr-06-05 10:19 PM   #124 
     - Okay, I was raised a Catholic and Sister said to treat others  Cleita   Apr-06-05 10:30 PM   #132 
        - And so I remain silent, knowing what wrong is being done. This really  tsuki   Apr-06-05 10:38 PM   #136 
           - Why is this your problem?  Cleita   Apr-06-05 10:52 PM   #143 
  - the immigrants I know would say to stay out of it. (legal and illegal)  fleabert   Apr-07-05 02:39 AM   #163 
  - There needs to be a Mexican labor strike  donheld   Apr-06-05 10:16 PM   #123 
  - In my previous life...  FormerOstrich   Apr-06-05 10:24 PM   #127 
  - Nice post......  tyedyeto   Apr-06-05 10:35 PM   #135 
  - Great post  Maestro   Apr-06-05 10:47 PM   #140 
  - Thank you..  FormerOstrich   Apr-06-05 11:17 PM   #148 
     - Thanks  Maestro   Apr-07-05 05:53 AM   #171 
  - Excellent post. I hope everybody in this debate reads it....  cire4   Apr-07-05 01:50 AM   #161 
  - you are my hero for posting this.  fleabert   Apr-07-05 02:44 AM   #164 
  - I say let 'em come  nguoihue   Apr-06-05 10:31 PM   #134 
  - Really interesting article  Maestro   Apr-06-05 10:42 PM   #138 
  - Even one illegal alien is too many.  Placebo   Apr-07-05 12:52 AM   #156 
     - A bit of an insult to legal aliens as well  LittleClarkie   Apr-07-05 01:47 AM   #160 
     - It's not an evil thought  Maestro   Apr-07-05 05:45 AM   #169 
     - yeah, pretty interesting  barb162   Apr-07-05 12:28 PM   #198 
  - I agree with you.  fleabert   Apr-07-05 02:09 AM   #162 
  - just wondering  allhislife   Apr-07-05 06:11 AM   #172 
  - You need a minimum number of posts to other threads first.  Bridget Burke   Apr-07-05 07:53 AM   #174 
  - I guess the fences and border patrols are for jack rabbits?  Snivi Yllom   Apr-07-05 08:19 AM   #179 
  - Did you read the thread?  Kathy in Cambridge   Apr-07-05 08:55 AM   #184 
     - Parts of it are funny. According to one poster, I'm  sfexpat2000   Apr-07-05 09:33 AM   #189 
  - It's a deluge  barb162   Apr-07-05 12:19 PM   #197 
  - It's a deluge all right. Of propaganda. Hiding thread. n/t  sfexpat2000   Apr-07-05 12:31 PM   #199 
  - Locking by request of author  Moderator   Apr-07-05 01:51 PM   #200 
 

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