Silverhair
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Wed Apr-06-05 03:18 PM
Response to Reply #81 |
| 86. Have you even read the article? |
|
Here is a link to the article in Discover magazine. Maybe you will understand their explaination. I can see the error you are making and have tried to explain it to you, but you don't seem to understand. Begin with the sun. Plants store solar energy. The process extracts the solar energy that is contained in biomass. They are using turkeys for now because it is convenient. Please read the article if you have not done so. http://www.changingworldtech.com./index.asp http://forums.biodieselnow.com/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=829 The second link is to a site that has the article. The Discover site requires a subscription. |
| -Oil from Anything...And hardly anyone's writing about it. |
Andy_Stephenson |
Apr-06-05 11:40 AM |
#0 |
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Kind of like Mr. Fusion? |
bryant69 |
Apr-06-05 11:41 AM |
#1 |
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Yeah, that's the main drawback. |
trotsky |
Apr-06-05 11:44 AM |
#3 |
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Balance that with the elimination of landfills and toxic waste dumps, |
MercutioATC |
Apr-06-05 11:46 AM |
#4 |
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Actually, an economy based on this is carbon-neutral. |
phantom power |
Apr-06-05 11:48 AM |
#5 |
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You're right. |
trotsky |
Apr-06-05 12:38 PM |
#18 |
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No, the energy source is the sun. Nuclear not needed. |
Silverhair |
Apr-06-05 01:50 PM |
#29 |
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Since that heat isn't produced by a radioactive process, |
kgfnally |
Apr-06-05 01:55 PM |
#32 |
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I think you're not accounting for the required heat energy |
phantom power |
Apr-06-05 02:01 PM |
#36 |
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Is that necessarily a bad thing? |
kgfnally |
Apr-06-05 02:15 PM |
#46 |
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Personally, I'm in favor of nuclear power. |
phantom power |
Apr-06-05 02:23 PM |
#51 |
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well, okay, so could the recyclable spent rods you mentioned |
kgfnally |
Apr-06-05 02:26 PM |
#54 |
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NO !!! TDP can't handle radioactives. NT |
Silverhair |
Apr-06-05 02:33 PM |
#58 |
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It doesn't have to handle any radiation. |
phantom power |
Apr-06-05 02:40 PM |
#66 |
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Needless. TDP produces it's own fuel. |
Silverhair |
Apr-06-05 02:45 PM |
#70 |
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yep, it's a perpetuum mobile |
rman |
Apr-06-05 03:28 PM |
#94 |
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Not perpetuum mobile. Just a way of harvesting solar energy. |
Silverhair |
Apr-06-05 03:48 PM |
#98 |
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Okay. I'd wondered. n/t |
kgfnally |
Apr-06-05 02:56 PM |
#74 |
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Spent fuel has to be processed. |
phantom power |
Apr-06-05 02:38 PM |
#64 |
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the spent nuclear fuel from a pebble-bed reactor is not as dangerous- |
LiberallyInclined |
Apr-06-05 02:34 PM |
#60 |
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Right. We recycle it in places like Iraq. |
leesa |
Apr-07-05 07:45 AM |
#113 |
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Actually you are wrong on this point.... |
Andy_Stephenson |
Apr-06-05 02:19 PM |
#49 |
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You have just described a system that... |
phantom power |
Apr-06-05 02:24 PM |
#52 |
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No, he didn't. You did not understand. |
Silverhair |
Apr-06-05 02:31 PM |
#57 |
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Correct. The point I'm making is... |
phantom power |
Apr-06-05 02:42 PM |
#67 |
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Yes, you can. It produces OIL. Oil is used as a fuel. NT |
Silverhair |
Apr-06-05 02:47 PM |
#71 |
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Maybe we're talking past each other. |
phantom power |
Apr-06-05 03:10 PM |
#81 |
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Have you even read the article? |
Silverhair |
Apr-06-05 03:18 PM |
#86 |
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Yes, last year. However, I re-read it. |
phantom power |
Apr-07-05 09:33 AM |
#117 |
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I am not qualified to answer that. |
Silverhair |
Apr-07-05 10:27 PM |
#138 |
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no - E1 = (EO + EB + EW) |
Poor Richard Lex |
Apr-07-05 09:00 AM |
#116 |
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TDP Produces OIL + Fuel-gas + solid Carbon + Minerals + Water!! |
suziedemocrat |
Apr-07-05 06:32 PM |
#133 |
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I think lots of people don't want TDP to succeed. |
Silverhair |
Apr-07-05 10:30 PM |
#139 |
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I think you are right! |
suziedemocrat |
Apr-08-05 06:21 AM |
#144 |
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I know no such people |
raccoon |
Apr-08-05 07:59 AM |
#147 |
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I said that because... |
Silverhair |
Apr-08-05 08:51 PM |
#148 |
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So, there's *no* net 'loss' of energy? n/t |
kgfnally |
Apr-06-05 02:25 PM |
#53 |
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There ARE problems. 1) It stinks. 2) Animals guts aren't free in U.S. |
suziedemocrat |
Apr-07-05 06:43 PM |
#134 |
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Not terribly expensive to build the plants. |
Silverhair |
Apr-07-05 10:34 PM |
#140 |
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You're talking about producing more energy than goes in |
Selatius |
Apr-06-05 02:29 PM |
#56 |
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You are forgetting where the plants get their energy from. |
Silverhair |
Apr-06-05 02:35 PM |
#61 |
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Now I understand, but... |
Selatius |
Apr-06-05 03:12 PM |
#82 |
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The thing about the system is |
Andy_Stephenson |
Apr-06-05 03:16 PM |
#85 |
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Even so, it doesn't negate the common sense to reduce consumption |
Selatius |
Apr-06-05 03:24 PM |
#90 |
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Agreed. NT |
Silverhair |
Apr-06-05 03:25 PM |
#93 |
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Yes, we need to be looking at multiple sources. |
Silverhair |
Apr-06-05 03:20 PM |
#87 |
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One of the outputs of TDP is fuel-gas - which they use as fuel for TDP |
suziedemocrat |
Apr-07-05 06:09 PM |
#132 |
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Combined with conservation measures |
Frederik |
Apr-06-05 11:55 AM |
#8 |
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No. TDP helps with global warming. |
Silverhair |
Apr-06-05 01:48 PM |
#28 |
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Wrong! |
BillyDoc |
Apr-07-05 12:27 PM |
#127 |
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maybe not as bad as... |
webDude |
Apr-06-05 11:56 AM |
#9 |
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I thought the TDP oil was cleaner since solid carbon is a separate output. |
suziedemocrat |
Apr-07-05 06:01 PM |
#130 |
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Wow! That sounds like the perfect solution. Wonder how cheap |
Vinca |
Apr-06-05 11:43 AM |
#2 |
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Supposedly It's $85 a Barrel Now |
ribofunk |
Apr-06-05 12:22 PM |
#14 |
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Changing World Technology says they can produce TDP oil for $15/ barrel. |
Silverhair |
Apr-06-05 01:52 PM |
#30 |
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this technology has been discussed many times at DU |
Cocoa |
Apr-06-05 11:50 AM |
#6 |
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Ah cocoa as usual |
Andy_Stephenson |
Apr-06-05 12:24 PM |
#15 |
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isn't Woolsey's involvement interesting to you? |
Cocoa |
Apr-06-05 12:39 PM |
#19 |
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Yes his involvement is eyebrow raising...to say the least |
Andy_Stephenson |
Apr-06-05 12:53 PM |
#22 |
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I'd tend to agree. |
kgfnally |
Apr-06-05 02:00 PM |
#34 |
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Hitler's Germany invented several things that we use today. |
Silverhair |
Apr-06-05 03:25 PM |
#91 |
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and you'll notice |
Cocoa |
Apr-06-05 03:33 PM |
#97 |
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I am talking about the process itself. |
Silverhair |
Apr-06-05 03:52 PM |
#99 |
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It is interesting that he should be involved. Kind of makes me give more |
bunny planet |
Apr-07-05 10:32 AM |
#118 |
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I'm still undecided on this. |
Discord |
Apr-06-05 11:53 AM |
#7 |
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lets empty our land fills into it. |
Options Remain |
Apr-06-05 12:01 PM |
#10 |
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sure. thats ONE of the pro's for it. |
Discord |
Apr-06-05 12:06 PM |
#12 |
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There is a great article in |
Andy_Stephenson |
Apr-06-05 12:25 PM |
#16 |
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cool. thanks for the info. |
Discord |
Apr-06-05 12:27 PM |
#17 |
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That article is very informative, BTW |
kgfnally |
Apr-06-05 02:07 PM |
#43 |
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I read it Andy. It certainly seems encouraging, especially considering |
bunny planet |
Apr-07-05 11:10 AM |
#119 |
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Is that part of energy independence? |
whistle |
Apr-06-05 12:02 PM |
#11 |
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OMG - a positive solution! We need more of this on DU. Thanks Andy!!! |
BigBearJohn |
Apr-06-05 12:12 PM |
#13 |
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It's already under attack |
Warpy |
Apr-06-05 12:44 PM |
#20 |
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Big Agriculture is for TDP. |
Silverhair |
Apr-06-05 01:58 PM |
#33 |
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How about using it near a sewage plant too... |
slor |
Apr-06-05 02:00 PM |
#35 |
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Exactly! Philadelphia was supposed to try this, don't know if they have. |
satya |
Apr-07-05 05:01 AM |
#111 |
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From what I understood about Big Oil's initial reaction, |
kgfnally |
Apr-06-05 02:02 PM |
#38 |
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Big Oil will have to wait for the patents to expire. |
Silverhair |
Apr-06-05 02:38 PM |
#63 |
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Yes, you are exactly right |
slaveplanet |
Apr-07-05 08:39 AM |
#114 |
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I say |
Squeech |
Apr-06-05 12:49 PM |
#21 |
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exactly. it has been very hard to find any accurate and |
Discord |
Apr-06-05 12:56 PM |
#23 |
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Well everything that comes out at the end |
Andy_Stephenson |
Apr-06-05 01:02 PM |
#24 |
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Links for the articles that you want: |
Silverhair |
Apr-06-05 02:01 PM |
#37 |
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Point: that water is pure, as I understand the process. n/t |
kgfnally |
Apr-06-05 02:08 PM |
#44 |
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Agree. I Hope It Pans Out. I Really Do. But . . |
loindelrio |
Apr-06-05 01:15 PM |
#25 |
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I couldn't agree more |
Squeech |
Apr-06-05 01:27 PM |
#26 |
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Perhaps it is being sat on until the current oil economy is milked dry. |
tasteblind |
Apr-06-05 03:32 PM |
#96 |
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Take off the tinfoil hat. |
Silverhair |
Apr-06-05 05:20 PM |
#101 |
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Nothing tinfoil about milking current technology. |
tasteblind |
Apr-07-05 07:22 AM |
#112 |
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Yeah, that works |
Squeech |
Apr-06-05 05:29 PM |
#103 |
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Here's an article from Yesterday - two more from 1/2005 & 12/2004 |
suziedemocrat |
Apr-07-05 07:01 PM |
#136 |
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From anything, but not for free. |
rman |
Apr-06-05 01:45 PM |
#27 |
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think nuke-u-lar. |
LiberallyInclined |
Apr-06-05 01:54 PM |
#31 |
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how many new nuclear power plants would we need to produce |
rman |
Apr-06-05 02:04 PM |
#40 |
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the technology will NEVER produce that much oil- |
LiberallyInclined |
Apr-06-05 02:16 PM |
#47 |
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Hemp oil would be more expensive than TDP. |
Silverhair |
Apr-06-05 02:28 PM |
#55 |
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is there a link to the discover article you refer to? |
LiberallyInclined |
Apr-06-05 02:35 PM |
#62 |
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Yes. I posted it above, but here it is again: |
Silverhair |
Apr-06-05 02:39 PM |
#65 |
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The TDP energy comes from the sun. |
Silverhair |
Apr-06-05 02:06 PM |
#41 |
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All energy comes from the sun. |
rman |
Apr-06-05 02:34 PM |
#59 |
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TDP uses more than just turkeys. |
Silverhair |
Apr-06-05 02:43 PM |
#68 |
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We do need fertilizer to grow food - *at the scale that we do* |
rman |
Apr-06-05 02:58 PM |
#76 |
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The energy source is the sun. |
Silverhair |
Apr-06-05 03:14 PM |
#84 |
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You know plants need fertilizer don't you? |
rman |
Apr-06-05 03:25 PM |
#92 |
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Weeds don't. |
Silverhair |
Apr-06-05 03:31 PM |
#95 |
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You do know that organic farmers grow crops without fertilizer don't you. |
bunny planet |
Apr-07-05 11:44 AM |
#125 |
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Yes but even weeds are pretty inefficient |
drm604 |
Apr-07-05 04:35 PM |
#129 |
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Keep up the research. That may yield something too. NT |
Silverhair |
Apr-07-05 11:10 PM |
#142 |
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Well it was explained this way |
Andy_Stephenson |
Apr-06-05 02:15 PM |
#45 |
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perpetuum mobile |
rman |
Apr-06-05 02:48 PM |
#72 |
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No, the 15% is LOST unrecoverable energy. |
Silverhair |
Apr-06-05 02:50 PM |
#73 |
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You can't both lose it and use it to power the process. |
rman |
Apr-06-05 03:06 PM |
#80 |
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All energy is ultimately lost. |
Silverhair |
Apr-06-05 03:12 PM |
#83 |
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I see |
rman |
Apr-06-05 04:22 PM |
#100 |
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Why would you fertilize weeds? |
Silverhair |
Apr-06-05 05:26 PM |
#102 |
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to get massive quantities of it, |
rman |
Apr-09-05 09:11 AM |
#151 |
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Your objection was covered in the original article. |
Silverhair |
Apr-09-05 09:37 AM |
#152 |
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From what I've seen on DU and other sites, |
amandabeech |
Apr-06-05 02:04 PM |
#39 |
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that last is part of why Big Ag seems to be against it |
kgfnally |
Apr-06-05 02:21 PM |
#50 |
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Big Ag doesn't get much bigger than ConAgra |
Cocoa |
Apr-06-05 02:43 PM |
#69 |
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Contradicting something above. |
kgfnally |
Apr-06-05 02:58 PM |
#77 |
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I'm not following you |
Cocoa |
Apr-06-05 03:01 PM |
#79 |
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Barking up the wrong tree (the answer to peak oil is in the Bible)... |
Cooley Hurd |
Apr-06-05 02:06 PM |
#42 |
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the really funny part is, if you account for the TDP process we're |
kgfnally |
Apr-06-05 02:18 PM |
#48 |
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Cheney's energy bill provided $95 million for this technology |
Cocoa |
Apr-06-05 02:56 PM |
#75 |
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That's probably just payback to ConAgra, nothing for CWT. n/t |
satya |
Apr-07-05 04:33 AM |
#108 |
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I've long fantasized about this... |
SmokingJacket |
Apr-06-05 02:58 PM |
#78 |
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I know what you mean. |
Silverhair |
Apr-06-05 03:22 PM |
#89 |
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Andy, I've been swamped and haven't had time to read |
ryan_cats |
Apr-06-05 03:21 PM |
#88 |
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Thermal Depolymerisation is old technology |
jmatthan |
Apr-06-05 10:28 PM |
#104 |
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Known as Kompogas? n/t |
satya |
Apr-07-05 04:21 AM |
#105 |
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Fertilizer; Kompogas; Switzerland, Germany, Austria; kills mad cow prions |
satya |
Apr-07-05 04:25 AM |
#106 |
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I emailed Gov. Gregoire's office about this last month, in the hopes that |
satya |
Apr-07-05 04:26 AM |
#107 |
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I remember reading about this |
TorchTheWitch |
Apr-07-05 04:42 AM |
#109 |
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Found link; destroys mad cow prions and breaks down dioxins and PCBs |
satya |
Apr-07-05 04:57 AM |
#110 |
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In Theory, This Works. |
ProfessorGAC |
Apr-07-05 08:59 AM |
#115 |
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Been done for years in Europe, & it's profitable.The rest of the world can |
satya |
Apr-07-05 11:25 AM |
#121 |
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This Proposal Is More Chemically Involved |
ProfessorGAC |
Apr-07-05 11:32 AM |
#122 |
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I'm sure you know more about it than I do; thanks. CWT's process is |
satya |
Apr-07-05 11:43 AM |
#124 |
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that's entirely different |
rman |
Apr-09-05 09:05 AM |
#150 |
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I read the Discover article Andy. It certainly was encouraging considering |
bunny planet |
Apr-07-05 11:13 AM |
#120 |
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Fabulous! another great |
MsTryska |
Apr-07-05 11:35 AM |
#123 |
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Who'd a thunk it, innovation on Laaaawwwng Island. |
bunny planet |
Apr-07-05 12:03 PM |
#126 |
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oh yeah? whereabouts? |
MsTryska |
Apr-07-05 12:44 PM |
#128 |
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Valley Stream, which had no valleys or streams. |
bunny planet |
Apr-08-05 07:52 AM |
#146 |
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Matt Savinar says it has a negative EROEI. |
robertpaulsen |
Apr-07-05 06:03 PM |
#131 |
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thanks for the link... incredible.. and depressing.. |
trekbiker |
Apr-07-05 06:59 PM |
#135 |
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The point is to use inputs to TDP that would normally be waste. |
suziedemocrat |
Apr-07-05 07:26 PM |
#137 |
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There are errors in your post. |
Silverhair |
Apr-07-05 11:06 PM |
#141 |
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Kick |
Javaman |
Apr-07-05 11:15 PM |
#143 |
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Biomass rules! |
bigtree |
Apr-08-05 06:52 AM |
#145 |
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Thanks for the tip |
Domitan |
Apr-08-05 08:59 PM |
#149 |
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