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Ladyhawk Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-24-04 02:20 PM
Response to Reply #17
68. Question: if the fetus can feel pain and fear, is it still nothing more...
Edited on Fri Dec-24-04 02:24 PM by Ladyhawk
...than a bunch of cells?

Don't yell at me. I really want to know. At what point can a fetus feel pain and fear? Newborn babies are capable of quite a lot more than we give them credit for. This doesn't happen overnight.

(I know I'm going to get yelled at...sigh.)

By the way, you don't have to check my profile. I'm a woman. And I think some of you should lighten up on the guy trying to figure things out. I'm still figuring this one out myself.

The thing that pisses me off most about the abortion issue is that:

1) Republicans are against sex education.
2) Republicans only care about the welfare of the child when it is in the womb.

Me? I have trouble believing a zygote is a human being, but I think a fetus becomes human at some point before birth. And I believe it can feel pain and fear quite early on. This is important to me.

I would like to see more time, money and energy spent on preventing unwanted pregnancies and early abortions, but no way would I want abortion outlawed under the Republicans. :scared:

P.S. Please don't hate me because I don't think just like you.
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  -A treatise on why I am a "pro-lifer", from an atheist's prospective truhavoc  Dec-23-04 02:07 PM   #0 
  - Let's see... checking the profile...  Jesus H. Christ   Dec-23-04 02:08 PM   #1 
  - Let's see...a post without reading the message....  truhavoc   Dec-23-04 02:10 PM   #2 
     - Oh, I read the message.  Jesus H. Christ   Dec-23-04 02:12 PM   #3 
     - I read your was specious at best...and the poster is right  nothingshocksmeanymore   Dec-23-04 02:13 PM   #6 
        - So therefore because I am a male I do not have any right to judge?  truhavoc   Dec-23-04 02:24 PM   #18 
           -'s just the specious argument was a dead have every  nothingshocksmeanymore   Dec-23-04 02:27 PM   #22 
  - You do realize doctors don't abort viable fetuses...right?  nothingshocksmeanymore   Dec-23-04 02:12 PM   #4 
  - The point is definining what a viable fetus is  truhavoc   Dec-23-04 02:15 PM   #9 
     - Who makes that determination? Usually a qualified doctor.  Jesus H. Christ   Dec-23-04 02:17 PM   #11 
     - Please educate yourself...late term abortions are not performed  nothingshocksmeanymore   Dec-23-04 02:21 PM   #14 
        - Then please tell me what all the fuss is about then?  truhavoc   Dec-23-04 02:42 PM   #29 
           - My understanding is that viable fetuses, i.e. that can survive outside the  nothingshocksmeanymore   Dec-23-04 02:46 PM   #32 
           - I will research this further...  truhavoc   Dec-23-04 03:01 PM   #36 
           - life vs health  LisaLL   Dec-28-04 11:14 AM   #93 
           - problem comes also in who gets to decided what viable outside the womb  RUDUing2   Dec-27-04 02:55 PM   #76 
           - There are cases of voluntary late term abortions  Az   Dec-23-04 02:47 PM   #33 
           - This is what I thought, thanks for clearing this up n/t  truhavoc   Dec-23-04 03:02 PM   #37 
           - No there are not any cases of "voluntary" late term abortion  Cheswick2.0   Dec-24-04 01:38 PM   #54 
              - It wasn't a question of whether it was allowed or not  Az   Dec-24-04 01:59 PM   #61 
           - I don't know what the hell all the fuss is about.  Cheswick2.0   Dec-24-04 01:35 PM   #52 
  - I think your argument gets a bit hosed up when you say  tk2kewl   Dec-23-04 02:13 PM   #5 
  - Not a very pretty analogy I admit  truhavoc   Dec-23-04 02:19 PM   #13 
     - People put their pets to sleep all the time.  Jesus H. Christ   Dec-23-04 02:22 PM   #15 
     - I would agree that people have the right to assisted suicide  truhavoc   Dec-23-04 03:16 PM   #42 
     - if you say there is time when fetus should be protected then  tk2kewl   Dec-23-04 02:24 PM   #19 
     - I also mention this....  truhavoc   Dec-23-04 02:45 PM   #30 
        - you think women a day before their due date are aborting living  Cheswick2.0   Dec-24-04 01:42 PM   #56 
           - Read the full quote, that is not what I say whatsoever n/t  truhavoc   Dec-24-04 02:05 PM   #66 
     - I think all males over the age of 12 should be sterilized  Cheswick2.0   Dec-24-04 01:40 PM   #55 
     - Smart, very smart....  truhavoc   Dec-24-04 02:07 PM   #67 
     - actually, as a male I agree  unpossibles   Dec-27-04 04:40 PM   #87 
     - justified killing  LisaLL   Dec-28-04 12:01 PM   #95 
  - Well, thank you for giving women all that is needed... except for what  Misunderestimator   Dec-23-04 02:14 PM   #7 
  - I wish I knew, "clear-cut" was an overstatment  truhavoc   Dec-23-04 02:17 PM   #10 
  - The basic principle  Maple   Dec-23-04 02:15 PM   #8 
  - I believe most pro-lifers would probably say  ayeshahaqqiqa   Dec-23-04 02:17 PM   #12 
  - In theory I would say that you are correct  truhavoc   Dec-23-04 03:05 PM   #39 
     - late term abortions should be, and are, rare  ayeshahaqqiqa   Dec-23-04 03:43 PM   #44 
     - Oh for goodness sake  Cheswick2.0   Dec-24-04 01:44 PM   #57 
  - Let's discuss this later  lwfern   Dec-23-04 02:23 PM   #16 
  - Nice false analogy  truhavoc   Dec-23-04 02:49 PM   #34 
     - And there we are.  lwfern   Dec-23-04 03:44 PM   #45 
     - great post lwfern  GloriaSmith   Dec-28-04 11:29 AM   #94 
     - women don't get pregnant because they don't understand conception  Cheswick2.0   Dec-24-04 01:48 PM   #58 
  - Brains  Az   Dec-23-04 02:23 PM   #17 
  - You make a very good point  truhavoc   Dec-23-04 02:30 PM   #23 
  - Question: if the fetus can feel pain and fear, is it still nothing more...  Ladyhawk   Dec-24-04 02:20 PM   #68 
  - How can a fetus experience fear?  Scout   Dec-27-04 03:01 PM   #77 
  - not necessarily  unpossibles   Dec-27-04 04:46 PM   #88 
  - Well reasoned,  msgadget   Dec-23-04 02:26 PM   #20 
  - In part, however that is not my only justification  truhavoc   Dec-23-04 02:39 PM   #28 
  - Sorry, But You Need to Think Through With Your Advocacy For Lawmaking  David Zephyr   Dec-23-04 02:27 PM   #21 
  - That is not what I am saying at all.  truhavoc   Dec-23-04 02:36 PM   #26 
     - An Initial Attempt? At What?  David Zephyr   Dec-23-04 03:10 PM   #41 
        - An initial attempt at a non gender biased solution  truhavoc   Dec-23-04 03:20 PM   #43 
           - Picking at semantics, but  FizzFuzz   Dec-27-04 06:01 PM   #90 
  - you point is well considered  jdots   Dec-23-04 02:34 PM   #24 
  - The pet thing was a little goofy, but the point is valid....  txaslftist   Dec-23-04 02:36 PM   #25 
  - Another guy here speaks out!  TwentyFive   Dec-23-04 02:37 PM   #27 
  - You make the same mistake...  Peter Frank   Dec-23-04 02:46 PM   #31 
  - I'm not trying to make that mistake.  truhavoc   Dec-23-04 02:57 PM   #35 
     - The problem  Az   Dec-23-04 03:04 PM   #38 
     - Thank you Az  truhavoc   Dec-23-04 03:08 PM   #40 
     - Well, philosophizing is one thing...  punpirate   Dec-23-04 04:52 PM   #47 
     - Some very good points..  truhavoc   Dec-24-04 01:59 PM   #62 
     - fixing the problem  LisaLL   Dec-27-04 03:53 PM   #85 
  - Murder Is a Legal Term; Pets Cannot Be "Murdered"  REP   Dec-23-04 04:10 PM   #46 
  - A correction  truhavoc   Dec-24-04 01:28 PM   #51 
     - It's NOT RELEVANT  sandnsea   Dec-24-04 01:58 PM   #60 
        - I will pose one question for you then  truhavoc   Dec-24-04 02:03 PM   #64 
           - Sensationalism, YES  sandnsea   Dec-24-04 02:24 PM   #69 
           - so-called partial birth abortion ban  LisaLL   Dec-27-04 02:48 PM   #74 
           - it is just empty legislation. Most of what it covers is already in place  RUDUing2   Dec-27-04 03:18 PM   #80 
  - If you want to be serious about the topic...  ChairOne   Dec-23-04 05:18 PM   #48 
  - Yeah, that phrase got me too...  Peter Frank   Dec-23-04 05:26 PM   #49 
     - For those special times when drawing & quartering just isn't enough...  ChairOne   Dec-23-04 06:30 PM   #50 
     - you just keep poisoning those little doggies for convenience  Cheswick2.0   Dec-24-04 02:00 PM   #63 
        - if you repeat a lie long enough  noiretblu   Dec-24-04 02:57 PM   #71 
           - "[T]hat pro-life book" isn't really the right way to describe it....  ChairOne   Dec-27-04 03:14 PM   #79 
  - How is it appropraite for the government to make decissions for women?  Hippo_Tron   Dec-24-04 01:37 PM   #53 
  - Wrong conceit  That Name Taken   Dec-27-04 03:34 PM   #83 
  - Doctors & patients decide  sandnsea   Dec-24-04 01:56 PM   #59 
  - Join our crusade to have all men sterilized at 12  Cheswick2.0   Dec-24-04 02:05 PM   #65 
  - where is your evidence of abuse of the current law?  noiretblu   Dec-24-04 02:37 PM   #70 
  - plus most states already have laws in place that place limits on abortions  RUDUing2   Dec-27-04 03:03 PM   #78 
  - I consider normal murder killing a pet  ernstbass   Dec-24-04 03:10 PM   #72 
  - Abortion is a women's issue  ernstbass   Dec-24-04 03:12 PM   #73 
  - I'll take that deal!  That Name Taken   Dec-27-04 03:39 PM   #84 
  - So much for "one citizen, one vote", eh?  ChairOne   Dec-27-04 05:03 PM   #89 
  - major problem with your premise is that you seem to think that  RUDUing2   Dec-27-04 02:52 PM   #75 
  - I'm also a 23 year old male atheist Democrat. For what it's worth  theorist   Dec-27-04 03:19 PM   #81 
  - why you should be pro-choice/pro-prevention  LisaLL   Dec-27-04 03:30 PM   #82 
  - Almost every sperm that leaves my body is alive  Cronus Protagonist   Dec-27-04 04:30 PM   #86 
  - increasing rights with gestation  LisaLL   Dec-28-04 10:04 AM   #91 
  - an addition to last post  LisaLL   Dec-28-04 10:20 AM   #92 
  - If supporting Roe v Wade is the definition of pro-choice, then I think you  Jim__   Dec-28-04 12:16 PM   #96 

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