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Cuban_Liberal Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-22-04 08:41 AM
Response to Reply #25
28. It fits both, to a surprising degree.
Edited on Wed Dec-22-04 08:48 AM by Cuban_Liberal
During both my paramedic training and my Police Training Institute sessions dealing with psychiatric problems and intervention, the lecturers both noted that this was a fairly common occurence, and one of the reasons that survivor's often seem surprised by the suicide, e.g., "He's been pretty down lately, but he seemed to be feeling better/coming out of it the last few days."

I handled a suicide of a man who had been SEVERLY depressed for almost a week, so badly that his wife stayed awake 24/7 watching over him; one evening his medications seemed to be kicking in and he was subectively and objectively much less depressed and told his wife that she should lie down and get some rest, and assured her that he would be OK in the interim. She lay down for a one-hour nap, setting the alarm clock to wake herself up. While she was asleep, he covered her with an afghan, quietly went into the garage, ran a garden hose from the tailpipe through the back window of the car and started the engine. He died from CO poisoning.

I think part of what makes suicides so.... 'weird' to those of us who examine them is that the act itself goes against our own instinct for survival, i.e., on some level we see it as an illogical act ("he had so much to live for"... "he didn't have to kill himself, I would have helped him get through this"... "didn't he know how much we all loved him?" , etc.). Bearing that in mind, we often cast about for 'other' reasons to explain what we feel/believe to be the consumately irrational act--- trying to seek proof that it was an accident, or a murder--- simply because acceptance that it IS a suicide is too hard to handle, temporarily.

I can't speak for every jurisdiction, but every place I've ever worked, a suicide is always approached as though it were a homicide: crime scene processes the scene of the death in conjunction with the detectives, evidence is collected and sent to the crime lab for analysis, the coroner causes a forensic autopsy to be performed, detectives and uniformed officers talk to family, friends and other witnesses who do or even MAY have information that could be useful, treating psychiatrists/psychologists/social workers are contacted, etc., and in a FEW instances that were unclear, a 'psychiatric autopsy' was done.


PS-- I hope this helps explain 'where I'm coming from', and lets you know that I'm not some garden-variety skeptic or naysayer.
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  -Gary Webb was right: CIA Sold Dope (Cocaine Importation Agency) Octafish  Dec-21-04 03:09 PM   #0 
  - thank you once again, Octafish...  kk897   Dec-21-04 03:32 PM   #1 
  - You're welcome, kk897! These are interesting times, eh?  Octafish   Dec-21-04 11:34 PM   #12 
  - another good reason  alexisfree   Dec-21-04 04:02 PM   #2 
  - Usually I like the pictures a lot, too.  Octafish   Dec-21-04 11:40 PM   #13 
  - Thread on Coroners report. 2 shots to the head=SUICIDE  indigobusiness   Dec-21-04 04:12 PM   #3 
  - It happens.  Padraig18   Dec-21-04 05:12 PM   #7 
  - But rarely, if ever, without the usual suicide "signals".  indigobusiness   Dec-21-04 05:28 PM   #8 
     - Appearently some close friends did...  BrotherBuzz   Dec-22-04 02:29 AM   #20 
        - But just before his death, he wa fine and upbeat...  indigobusiness   Dec-22-04 04:29 AM   #22 
           - Actually, many, many suicides are people on the emotional 'upswing'  Cuban_Liberal   Dec-22-04 04:42 AM   #24 
              - Perhaps in manic depressives.  indigobusiness   Dec-22-04 07:33 AM   #25 
                 - It fits both, to a surprising degree.  Cuban_Liberal   Dec-22-04 08:41 AM   #28 
                    - Not at all, I knew you were well-meaning, and had an experienced opinion.  indigobusiness   Dec-22-04 10:35 AM   #29 
  - Some say it happens all the time.  Octafish   Dec-21-04 11:50 PM   #14 
  - Everyone PLEASE read this article in Esquire. Damn, it is  harrison   Dec-21-04 04:41 PM   #4 
  - harrison, anybody who likes to read is all right...  Octafish   Dec-21-04 11:59 PM   #15 
     - Most lies are based on fact, too.  indigobusiness   Dec-22-04 04:33 AM   #23 
  - Kick. Berellez picks up the torch.  Carl Brennan   Dec-21-04 04:57 PM   #5 
  - Thanks a lot, Carl! Hey! Didja hear about 'Celerino Castillo'?  Octafish   Dec-22-04 12:07 AM   #16 
  - Thanks Octafish  seemslikeadream   Dec-21-04 05:11 PM   #6 
  - Here's seemslikeadream taking a break from DU...  Octafish   Dec-22-04 12:21 AM   #17 
  - Kick  Tandalayo_Scheisskopf   Dec-21-04 06:03 PM   #9 
  - Thanks, General!  Octafish   Dec-22-04 12:28 AM   #18 
  - Kicking again. Everyone please read this story. It tells so  harrison   Dec-21-04 07:03 PM   #10 
  - Those he worked with call him "A Hero of Authentic Journalism"  Octafish   Dec-22-04 07:35 PM   #38 
  - Has he signed it yet?  seemslikeadream   Dec-21-04 11:03 PM   #11 
  - Anyone got any good links to journalists tied to Bush who have died?  nascarblue   Dec-22-04 02:06 AM   #19 
     - "Suicide" Journalists who got depressed and dead after investigating BFEE  Octafish   Dec-22-04 08:20 AM   #26 
        - What does BFEE stand for? Bush fascist enterprise ...?  nascarblue   Dec-22-04 11:32 AM   #31 
           - Bush Family Evil Empire  Octafish   Dec-22-04 01:08 PM   #34 
  - Funny how finding out truth is often a death sentence...  RBHam   Dec-22-04 02:31 AM   #21 
  - It's ironic -- or "goldy" -- how Presstitutes who protect Bush do "well."  Octafish   Dec-22-04 11:27 AM   #30 
  - Reminiscent of "Poppy" Bush  TWiley   Dec-22-04 08:30 AM   #27 
  - Exactly what I was thinking... Opium was under control under Taliban...  nascarblue   Dec-22-04 11:35 AM   #32 
  - Opium is Heroine  TWiley   Dec-22-04 11:46 AM   #33 
  - Thanks for bringing up Ollie the Traitor.  Octafish   Dec-22-04 01:41 PM   #36 
  - CIA's inspector general confirms Webb's facts  Cocoa   Dec-22-04 01:30 PM   #35 
  - Wonder if anyone at CIA ever apologized to Gary Webb?  Octafish   Dec-22-04 01:45 PM   #37 
  - More info on the Webb story  pberq   Dec-23-04 03:53 PM   #39 
  - Gee. Who was Raygun's Drug War Czar in '82?  Octafish   Dec-23-04 10:27 PM   #42 
  - Anyone remember Danny Caslaro?  InvisibleBallots   Dec-23-04 04:24 PM   #40 
  - Danny Casolaro  seemslikeadream   Dec-23-04 04:52 PM   #41 
  - Casolaro was looking into Inslaw-PROMIS.  Octafish   Dec-23-04 10:36 PM   #43 
  - I remember this on 60 minutes  InvisibleBallots   Dec-23-04 10:38 PM   #44 
     - Octopus at Work: Inslaw-PROMIS Related Deaths  Octafish   Dec-23-04 10:49 PM   #46 
  - Jim Hatfield  Octafish   Dec-23-04 10:45 PM   #45 
  - Abbie Hoffman  Octafish   Dec-23-04 10:52 PM   #47 
  - Mark Lombardi  Octafish   Dec-23-04 10:59 PM   #50 
  - Steve Kangas  Octafish   Dec-23-04 11:05 PM   #52 
     - just a few of the hundreds of atrocities and crimes committed by the CIA  seemslikeadream   Dec-26-04 11:38 AM   #55 
  - Teddy Ebersol  RBHam   Dec-23-04 10:54 PM   #48 
  - You know he was a great young Democrat.  Octafish   Dec-23-04 11:01 PM   #51 
  - JFK Jr  RBHam   Dec-23-04 10:55 PM   #49 
  - In my heart of hearts, I always feared...  Octafish   Dec-23-04 11:09 PM   #53 
  - Kick to the pants of the BFEE -- CIA imports DOPE!  Octafish   Dec-26-04 10:18 AM   #54 

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