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Reply #123: There is something that can be done [View All]

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PATRICK Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-05-04 12:03 AM
Response to Original message
123. There is something that can be done
Edited on Fri Nov-05-04 12:04 AM by PATRICK
This is what the Democrats and the ACLU and the LWV and others like them are actually afraid of.

Destroy people's confidence in the vote. A good chunk of people get it already, any of whom demand paper ballots. Using paper ballots more of course, optically scanned and inhibited from recounts by the stolen victory margins themselves(neat) of course slows down elections while crooked states like Georgia rack up the bytes in comfort and confidence and speed. Bush was racking up a lead Kerry never once recovered all night and look at those leading the way.

Start ground circulating a national petition to get rid of the touch screens. This pussyfooting with paper trails is a complex issue bandage that itself can be compromised and not quite a sure thing.

The Democrats fear destroying the myth, the confidence of the conned that brings out the vote we need. Their fear is kind of irrelevant if we show people interested in voting but voting without the machine. It's only a machine!!! Canada may be falling under the spell, but its paper ballot system over a large geographic area was done in less than a day. Time is of no rational consideration and it is enabling fraud that privacy still is. And we still have intimidation anyway but not as much as when the vote was public.

To circulate a petition we need to establish a coalition of bit net organizations like those happy greenhorns at MoveON. Maybe Dean who seemed opening up to the idea can be approached now. Other real integrity groups as well. Some value voter confidence so much this issue is radioactive besides personally embarrassing for their support of the Trojan Voting Miracle.

A recall petition to be voted upon by paper ballots? Sounds silly, but the confidence game can be broken by reverse Ponzi. Destroy the base of legitimacy(already gone in fact) and eat the way to the top> Like a reverse, the way up will be tougher than Ponzi flowing down. it is obvious the normal system of law and election will be great barrier of reality here. And you run out of people who will support this.

Libertarians. Real Conservatives. Greens. Democracy Now stuff(LOL)type web groups. John Stewart if we want not to be so serious we look nutty.

Bev and Eloriel have had trouble communicating the concepts for some time. Besides the mysterious mindset of the self-suiciding DNC types they have made things very easy. The basics are the easiest. Vaporized votes reassembled and recorded through the secret codes of a private company can be pretty clear. People are dumb so much as misdirected. Identify the problem. Tell them what they can do. Get a large group and do it. Include as many large and legitimate groups as possible over a broad political spectrum. Man, if it isn't obvious the Democrat hierarchy are part of the problem by now this should be easier.

How to oppose bad law. HAVA-ing anything to do with touchscreen voting should be petitioned for removal from law. If you want to see what doing nothing gets you see the simplistic sorry picture on it is a summary of electoral extinction for morons. At the end of this horrifying site come the brief praise for the future of ONLINE VOTING, the worst of the worst. You will never even see the voters again! A side effect of safe online voting would be the coincidental control of the Internet itself.

Just DU or any one group doing it is very inadequate at this stage. We need to start with a power base. Even here it is amazing that all the data Bev graced us with just sort of lay there with just some word of mouth while jerky but fantastic efforts were made in states to modify the monster not kill it. If it can't get traction here as a concept for easy fighting, better than our favorite tinfoil stuff and flame wars, there is your problem in the American nutshell.

WE can try to do something. There is no other logical institution left to slam against the idea. Grassroots was slammed by Bush. Grassroots can push through the cracks. The machines are fast. Well, we are fast here too in cyberspace and waiting- we will lose this bastion. You know it or if you need more instigation, consider who is really suffering out there because of these criminals. In fact now our lives depend on it.

Stop making the conundrum into a win/win for Bush. Swallow the dangers of destroying voter confidence and turn it against fraud directly. Confidence does not matter anymore. It does not matter at all except as a threat.
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  -Mark Crispin Miller: "First of all, this election was definitely rigged" Bush_Eats_Beef  Nov-04-04 01:27 PM   #0 
  - it does seem hard to believe  central scrutinizer   Nov-04-04 01:29 PM   #1 
  - We didn't. This election was stolen in the machines.  aquart   Nov-04-04 01:31 PM   #2 
  - We need to question it.  LiberalAndProud   Nov-04-04 01:43 PM   #21 
  - early ballots simply not counted  radiofreesrini   Nov-04-04 04:38 PM   #74 
  - So why the fuck did Kerry concede?  Sterling   Nov-04-04 05:27 PM   #84 
     - I would love to know that.  brainshrub   Nov-04-04 05:36 PM   #85 
     - My thoughts right along...  moosedog   Nov-04-04 07:19 PM   #100 
     - oops, self delete  Carolina   Nov-04-04 08:30 PM   #106 
     - I think he conceded  Carolina   Nov-04-04 08:31 PM   #107 
     - Hmm - that is interesting. But it would mean he put party over country  vidali   Nov-04-04 11:34 PM   #119 
     - The 1% rich party?  nolabels   Nov-05-04 03:18 AM   #138 
     - no I don't mean he put party over country  Carolina   Nov-05-04 06:54 AM   #140 
     - i agree -  demjomr313   Nov-05-04 07:25 AM   #141 
        - Well, if he didn't want the job  WildClarySage   Nov-05-04 12:24 PM   #152 
     - I don't understand it either.  anotheryellowdog   Nov-05-04 03:10 AM   #137 
        - Of course Kerry knew that.  Zhade   Nov-06-04 12:56 PM   #161 
  - that's my belief, as well  American liberal   Nov-04-04 08:00 PM   #104 
     - NPR  KCS72000   Nov-05-04 11:22 AM   #149 
  - Excellent analogy. nt  vidali   Nov-04-04 01:32 PM   #4 
  - Well, there is corroboration here.  bushbash   Nov-04-04 01:37 PM   #10 
  - I can't find it..........  springhill   Nov-04-04 03:59 PM   #59 
     - Series of articles  michaelwb   Nov-04-04 04:14 PM   #63 
     - Same here  brainshrub   Nov-04-04 05:08 PM   #78 
  - Mark Crispin Miller is a bright man  SpikeTrees   Nov-04-04 01:31 PM   #3 
  - But they did in Franklin County...  chimpy the poopthrower   Nov-04-04 01:36 PM   #6 
  - The gay initiative did it inOhio but everywhere the EV's were  ladjf   Nov-04-04 01:36 PM   #7 
  - I agree. They would have been more likely to stay home had that not been..  UCLA Dem   Nov-04-04 02:26 PM   #34 
  - He understands quite well the problems in Ohio  vidali   Nov-04-04 01:37 PM   #9 
  - you can still fix an election with paper ballots..  qcsoapbox   Nov-04-04 01:39 PM   #14 
  - True. Paperless electronic machines aren't the ONLY way to steal votes...  chimpy the poopthrower   Nov-04-04 01:43 PM   #22 
  - it's not just the voting machines  lazarus   Nov-04-04 01:40 PM   #16 
  - Yes, errors in the card reader  SpikeTrees   Nov-04-04 01:42 PM   #19 
  - There were other dirty tricks  Dancing_Dave   Nov-04-04 01:45 PM   #23 
  - What can we do about  zidzi   Nov-04-04 03:43 PM   #53 
     - Here is the plan it is just the core a little rough but a start  Vincardog   Nov-04-04 04:08 PM   #62 
        - DUH????? Did you just see what you WROTE???  loudsue   Nov-04-04 06:30 PM   #96 
  - I believe 7 counties in Ohio use electronic voting.  Zorra   Nov-04-04 07:06 PM   #98 
  - Without the slightest doubt! Keep on hammering the bastards.  ladjf   Nov-04-04 01:35 PM   #5 
  - The GOP stealing the election "just didn't register" with Kerry? OMG.  highplainsdem   Nov-04-04 01:37 PM   #8 
  - What I get from the article is that the premise sounded too "tinfoil hat"  Bush_Eats_Beef   Nov-04-04 01:40 PM   #15 
  - uh, what about kerry and BCCI, Iran Contra  GreenArrow   Nov-04-04 03:12 PM   #43 
  - I'm speaking strictly within the context of the article...  Bush_Eats_Beef   Nov-04-04 03:19 PM   #45 
     - no, the article, as written, makes sense  GreenArrow   Nov-04-04 03:49 PM   #54 
     - That could be it, easily.  Bush_Eats_Beef   Nov-04-04 05:16 PM   #82 
        - Or JK had heard this story before and knew a lot more he was willing to  wrate   Nov-04-04 05:57 PM   #90 
           - Could Iowa hold the key to "hope" to open pandoras box?  shuffnew   Nov-05-04 01:55 PM   #154 
     - We can always try to ask  zidzi   Nov-04-04 03:49 PM   #55 
        - I just asked him to come post here  Stephanie   Nov-04-04 03:57 PM   #57 
           - Thank you, Stephanie!  zidzi   Nov-04-04 04:00 PM   #60 
           - Thanks Stephanie  Bush_Eats_Beef   Nov-04-04 05:12 PM   #79 
  - That makes sense. I introduced the BBV people to Move On  Sterling   Nov-04-04 05:45 PM   #87 
  - Democratic Kerry Operative "Pete, NYC" just posted this in a thread.  KoKo01   Nov-04-04 02:53 PM   #38 
  - Why?  JohnyCanuck   Nov-04-04 03:03 PM   #42 
  - Kerry can't be caught tinfoiling  Tangledog   Nov-04-04 03:33 PM   #49 
     - Kerry is an honorable and honest guy....  MedusaSaur   Nov-04-04 04:03 PM   #61 
     - I think Kerry's been down the tinfoil hat road before  Geek_Girl   Nov-04-04 05:13 PM   #80 
     - I think Gore was the same way. They are honest folks and expect others  KoKo01   Nov-04-04 08:02 PM   #105 
     - The really big problem here  Eloriel   Nov-04-04 08:51 PM   #108 
     - What would be "tinfoil"  CAcyclist   Nov-04-04 10:38 PM   #113 
     - Come on "BIg Red Flag" over Lake Erie....  shuffnew   Nov-05-04 03:05 AM   #136 
  - Think of it this way.  K-W   Nov-04-04 05:21 PM   #83 
  - how come the "liberal" media doesn't pick up on this? n/t  Gut Check   Nov-04-04 01:38 PM   #11 
  - It picks up on it, put after a day or so puts it back on the shelf  Bush_Eats_Beef   Nov-04-04 01:52 PM   #28 
  - Fascinating. I sure thought it was odd that all those black people were  janeaustin   Nov-04-04 01:38 PM   #12 
  - Like in 2000  michaelwb   Nov-04-04 04:19 PM   #66 
  - well then.  sui generis   Nov-04-04 01:38 PM   #13 
  - Deleted message  Name removed   Nov-04-04 01:40 PM   #17 
  - Aren't you in the wrong forum? (trying to be polite, though you weren't)  highplainsdem   Nov-04-04 01:48 PM   #25 
  - Maybe I am in the wrong forum  Monist   Nov-04-04 01:53 PM   #29 
     - You have your thoughts on this and  zidzi   Nov-04-04 03:53 PM   #56 
     - "whine, cry, celebrate victimhood"  sui generis   Nov-04-04 04:25 PM   #68 
     - if we don't examine what has happened  ballcap1776   Nov-05-04 10:51 AM   #145 
     - I agree  blurp   Nov-04-04 04:31 PM   #70 
     - Bullshit  Kipepeo   Nov-05-04 11:29 AM   #151 
     - Your dismissing the electronic voting issue as tin-foil hat proves you  ElementaryPenguin   Nov-04-04 05:56 PM   #89 
     - Yep, wrong forum  Is It Fascism Yet   Nov-05-04 02:25 AM   #134 
  - ummm  SpikeTrees   Nov-04-04 01:48 PM   #26 
  - Thank you  Monist   Nov-04-04 01:54 PM   #30 
     - Starting when? n/t  Eloriel   Nov-04-04 08:59 PM   #110 
  - A "better message"?  trotsky   Nov-04-04 01:56 PM   #31 
     - And you know what, people believe this, and will  Angrillori   Nov-04-04 04:44 PM   #76 
  - I've felt this since the returns started coming in.  Borgnine   Nov-04-04 01:42 PM   #18 
  - Me too.  skryabushka   Nov-04-04 02:51 PM   #37 
     - ME TOO! Exit polls and other polls were showing Kerry much  barb1622000   Nov-04-04 03:37 PM   #51 
  - And what's truly baffling about this is...  punpirate   Nov-04-04 01:43 PM   #20 
  - We need to launch a letter-writing campaign. Ensure the integrity of  LiberalAndProud   Nov-04-04 01:46 PM   #24 
  - oh yeah write letters  T Bone   Nov-05-04 12:19 AM   #126 
  - Quite BLAMING THE MACHINE  byronm   Nov-04-04 01:49 PM   #27 
  - Our election system IS broken.  Caliphoto   Nov-04-04 02:46 PM   #36 
  - Oh, i don't disagree with you at all..  byronm   Nov-04-04 04:54 PM   #77 
  - They kept the hearings secret and only activists or folks here on DU  KoKo01   Nov-04-04 02:58 PM   #41 
  - Agree-- any suggestions  spooked911   Nov-04-04 10:29 PM   #112 
  - As soon as someone raises doubt  rniel   Nov-04-04 01:57 PM   #32 
  - Bev Harris is trying to get that evidence. See  highplainsdem   Nov-04-04 02:04 PM   #33 
  - I'm with you.  yardwork   Nov-04-04 02:42 PM   #35 
  - Did you see the nationwide map of all the e-voting machines  ModerateGal   Nov-04-04 02:53 PM   #39 
  - Tx Early Voting - Nationwide Map?  shuffnew   Nov-05-04 02:17 AM   #132 
  - Part of the issue, maybe?  tej   Nov-04-04 02:57 PM   #40 
  - There is No doubt  brettdale   Nov-04-04 03:14 PM   #44 
  - Miller will be on AAR's "Morning Sedition" tomorrow  Bush_Eats_Beef   Nov-04-04 03:23 PM   #46 
     - Are you going to listen?  zidzi   Nov-04-04 03:57 PM   #58 
        - I will try to catch it and post, but if I miss it...  Bush_Eats_Beef   Nov-04-04 05:14 PM   #81 
        - You can always listen later to the mp3  vidali   Nov-04-04 11:45 PM   #121 
  - Make believe campaign (W) for a make believe election  robbedvoter   Nov-04-04 03:24 PM   #47 
  - It's no coincidence  nebula   Nov-04-04 03:27 PM   #48 
  - the election was stolen, I firmly believe this. I am SO angry, so  barb1622000   Nov-04-04 03:35 PM   #50 
  - Thank you, Mark Crispin Miller!  zidzi   Nov-04-04 03:40 PM   #52 
  - Could someone take a sec to define  progressivehere   Nov-04-04 04:17 PM   #65 
  - You put one on to ward off dangerous alien death rays  Stephanie   Nov-04-04 04:22 PM   #67 
     - I lost mine  AZCat   Nov-04-04 04:35 PM   #73 
  - The rest of the US  CAcyclist   Nov-04-04 11:05 PM   #117 
  - Update, please: Uncounted votes in FL, OH?  MedusaSaur   Nov-04-04 04:15 PM   #64 
  - 2004 e-voting US map  ModerateGal   Nov-04-04 04:27 PM   #69 
  - A Patriot Act  Amy6627   Nov-04-04 04:32 PM   #71 
  - A good start: Donate to so they can proceed  moonbeams   Nov-04-04 06:19 PM   #92 
  - Correction!  GregD   Nov-04-04 10:39 PM   #114 
     - thx for the website address correction  moonbeams   Nov-04-04 11:26 PM   #118 
        - There is nothing we can DO!  Amy6627   Nov-05-04 03:17 PM   #159 
  - Nicely said.  Laelth   Nov-04-04 07:16 PM   #99 
  - So hwo the F do we get through to the only  Stew225   Nov-04-04 04:32 PM   #72 
  - Thank you Stephanie  progressivehere   Nov-04-04 04:42 PM   #75 
  - The results don't pass the smell test, that's for sure.  forradalom   Nov-04-04 05:39 PM   #86 
  - The land of the my  Ardee   Nov-04-04 05:53 PM   #88 
  - I am certain that at least OH and FL were stolen from Kerry. You need  wrate   Nov-04-04 06:28 PM   #95 
  - We need to have a paper trail for EVERY vote!  V Lee   Nov-04-04 06:18 PM   #91 
  - vote rigging is a form of (electronic) assassination  ngant17   Nov-04-04 06:24 PM   #93 
  - Welcome to DU and  zidzi   Nov-04-04 07:21 PM   #101 
  - why oh why is NO ONE screaming to rescind the non-taxable status  crozet4clark   Nov-04-04 06:24 PM   #94 
  - The IRS is too busy going after the NAACP. nt  Patiod   Nov-05-04 02:24 PM   #156 
  - From now on  montana_hazeleyes   Nov-04-04 06:31 PM   #97 
  - Word!  zidzi   Nov-04-04 07:22 PM   #102 
  - We have a way out  stupidgit   Nov-04-04 07:53 PM   #103 
  - The vote-stealing situation on the ground should be in all our minds.  bigmonkey   Nov-04-04 08:59 PM   #109 
  - the implications of Republican electronic warfare  teryang   Nov-04-04 09:56 PM   #111 
  - That is the most astounding feature of this whole millenium. So far.  vidali   Nov-04-04 11:40 PM   #120 
  - What's wrong with the Democrats? Why didn't they fight these machines  Kimber Scott   Nov-04-04 10:58 PM   #115 
  - Can someone give me a working link to this article?  XanthaS   Nov-04-04 11:05 PM   #116 
  - First of all, Crispin is an idiot  Nederland   Nov-05-04 12:00 AM   #122 
  - #of Right-Wing Christians?  shuffnew   Nov-05-04 02:33 AM   #135 
  - The exit polls were crap  Nederland   Nov-05-04 11:13 AM   #147 
  - Those figures are even higher than I remembered.  Cat Atomic   Nov-05-04 10:58 AM   #146 
     - Born Again % Count of 44% (not correct)  shuffnew   Nov-05-04 01:50 PM   #153 
  - There is something that can be done  PATRICK   Nov-05-04 12:03 AM   #123 
  - Yes, "Stolen Election 2004"!!! Kerry-Edwards HELP!  shuffnew   Nov-05-04 12:04 AM   #124 
  - They stole this election again!  PROGRESSIVE1   Nov-05-04 12:07 AM   #125 
  - If even 1/4 of us doubt this election,  justgamma   Nov-05-04 12:19 AM   #127 
  - MCM I love ya!  Qst4Q   Nov-05-04 12:23 AM   #128 
  - I know you're probably not going to like what I think but....  dragndust   Nov-05-04 12:55 AM   #129 
  - well said  teryang   Nov-05-04 05:26 AM   #139 
  - michael  merliecurlie   Nov-05-04 01:59 AM   #130 
  - Michael Moore's Email?  shuffnew   Nov-05-04 02:10 AM   #131 
  - 322, Mark  grasswire   Nov-05-04 02:20 AM   #133 
  - What does that mean?  Stephanie   Nov-05-04 07:29 AM   #142 
     - 322  Minstrel Boy   Nov-05-04 08:14 AM   #144 
     - it's the secret sign of Bonesmen  grasswire   Nov-05-04 11:22 AM   #148 
     - It's Skull and Bones code.  grasswire   Nov-05-04 11:24 AM   #150 
     - 322 is the S&B Lodge Number  shuffnew   Nov-05-04 02:12 PM   #155 
        - More on S&B & Lodge 322  shuffnew   Nov-05-04 02:27 PM   #157 
     - S&B Lodge 322 - Bush Presidential Speech 2004 & Hitlers Speech 1933  shuffnew   Nov-05-04 03:08 PM   #158 
  - Kerry's wife ,hire the best investigators ?  NicRic   Nov-05-04 08:13 AM   #143 
  - kick (nt)  Skinner   Nov-05-04 03:41 PM   #160 

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