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Reply #80: I couldn't agree more..... [View All]

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Liberal Veteran Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-28-03 12:03 PM
Response to Reply #78
80. I couldn't agree more.....
There are attitudes on both sides. I was more taken aback by the notion that we should just let all the blue collar factory jobs exit the country because we don't really need those jobs and the "we are better than that" anyway attitude. I have seen far too many people left destitute by that notion and many within my own family. If we aren't willing to stand together to defend our jobs whether they be blue collar, white collar, service or production, then we have already lost this battle and now we are just coasting to a halt.

We need a diverse economy and society to be successful and stable and content. Not a total white collar society or total blue collar society or total agrarian society.
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  -What is the alternative to free trade? jiacinto  Aug-28-03 07:41 AM   #0 
  - fair trade  bpilgrim   Aug-28-03 07:45 AM   #1 
  - Right on  HFishbine   Aug-28-03 11:13 AM   #64 
  - Free trade isn't necessarily the issue...  JM   Aug-28-03 07:49 AM   # 
  - Nothing free about free trade  muchacho   Aug-28-03 07:49 AM   #2 
  - right on, baby  Iverson   Aug-29-03 08:56 AM   #128 
  - I have some of the same questions  bryant69   Aug-28-03 07:49 AM   #3 
  - agree with bp. and also...  terryg11   Aug-28-03 07:53 AM   #4 
  - Depends what a country is good at.  Thankfully_in_Britain   Aug-28-03 08:06 AM   #9 
     - familiar with that but it seems outdated  terryg11   Aug-28-03 08:12 AM   #10 
        - More often then not..  Thankfully_in_Britain   Aug-28-03 08:22 AM   #12 
        - You misunderstand the concept of comparative advantage  zoidberg   Aug-28-03 09:16 AM   #18 
           - No it wouldn't.  liberal_veteran   Aug-28-03 10:25 AM   #49 
           - Nice to see that you know all about my background and ideas!  zoidberg   Aug-28-03 10:43 AM   #56 
              - Why?  liberal_veteran   Aug-28-03 11:10 AM   #63 
              - And that doesn't happen in factories?  Thankfully_in_Britain   Aug-28-03 11:36 AM   #73 
                 - Of course it does, but I was addressing the idea that white collar...  liberal_veteran   Aug-28-03 11:43 AM   #76 
                    - But I have to say  Thankfully_in_Britain   Aug-28-03 11:54 AM   #78 
                       - I couldn't agree more.....  liberal_veteran   Aug-28-03 12:03 PM   #80 
              - "Untrained, unskilled workers in factories have never created jobs."  liberal_veteran   Aug-28-03 11:27 AM   #70 
                 - Looks like Walter Hickman created those jobs  zoidberg   Aug-28-03 11:59 AM   #79 
                    - The same holds true in reverse though.  liberal_veteran   Aug-28-03 12:08 PM   #81 
                    - When Walter Hickman can run that factory by himself  WhoCountsTheVotes   Aug-28-03 01:25 PM   #87 
           - Again you have an incomplete solution to a complex problem.  Clete   Aug-28-03 03:25 PM   #112 
  - well,  buddhamama   Aug-28-03 07:56 AM   #5 
  - Naomi Klein has done some excellent analysis on this issue  prolesunited   Aug-28-03 07:59 AM   #6 
  - I'd like genuine free trade  Squeech   Aug-28-03 08:02 AM   #7 
  - protectionism  leftyandproud   Aug-28-03 08:05 AM   #8 
  - Tarrifs Are A Sales Tax In Drag  DemocratSinceBirth   Aug-28-03 08:21 AM   #11 
     - But it's a hidden tax  zoidberg   Aug-28-03 09:22 AM   #20 
  - FAIR trade. End NAFTA, GATT, WTO. Form new trade agreements  DemBones DemBones   Aug-28-03 08:25 AM   #13 
  - The problem comes from the focus  Az   Aug-28-03 08:33 AM   #14 
  - whats wrong with being an industrial country ?  jagguy   Aug-28-03 08:39 AM   #15 
  - Well  jiacinto   Aug-28-03 09:02 AM   #16 
     - i knew it  buddhamama   Aug-28-03 09:11 AM   #17 
     - What's wrong with everyone being a farmer?  zoidberg   Aug-28-03 09:25 AM   #22 
     - you're getting off track  buddhamama   Aug-28-03 09:28 AM   #24 
     - It's an apt comparison  zoidberg   Aug-28-03 09:33 AM   #27 
        - retain factories  buddhamama   Aug-28-03 09:40 AM   #31 
        - Retain factories  Lydia Leftcoast   Aug-28-03 11:01 AM   #57 
           - Well said, Lydia!  liberal_veteran   Aug-28-03 11:19 AM   #68 
           - Excellent point Lydia!!!!  Bushknew   Aug-28-03 01:13 PM   #85 
        - It's completely disingenuous, zoidberg  IrateCitizen   Aug-28-03 09:48 AM   #36 
           - Or, in other words  sangh0   Aug-28-03 03:10 PM   #107 
     - no we dont  friendofbenn   Aug-28-03 02:48 PM   #99 
     - Get off the soapbox  Blue_Chill   Aug-28-03 09:31 AM   #26 
     - no.  buddhamama   Aug-28-03 09:33 AM   #28 
     - I don't look down on people in factories  jiacinto   Aug-28-03 02:11 PM   #91 
     - I have never worked in a factory, but  K-W   Aug-28-03 09:27 AM   #23 
     - You are wrong about monopolies  zoidberg   Aug-28-03 09:31 AM   #25 
        - Oh! Well That Settles That  ProfessorGAC   Aug-28-03 09:39 AM   #30 
        - Then disprove that claim  zoidberg   Aug-28-03 09:54 AM   #37 
           - Hardly a "statement of fact", but rather a theory  IrateCitizen   Aug-28-03 10:01 AM   #41 
           - He's Not That Widely Respected Anymore  ProfessorGAC   Aug-28-03 10:01 AM   #42 
        - Not bloody likely  K-W   Aug-28-03 09:42 AM   #32 
        - Name one then  zoidberg   Aug-28-03 09:56 AM   #39 
           - As soon as you name on nation that truly practices free trade  IrateCitizen   Aug-28-03 09:58 AM   #40 
           - Zero intervention in what area?  Thankfully_in_Britain   Aug-28-03 10:03 AM   #43 
           - Microsoft?  Nederland   Aug-28-03 10:14 AM   #45 
              - Perhaps  zoidberg   Aug-28-03 10:30 AM   #51 
              - Microsoft is also shitting on it's workers....  liberal_veteran   Aug-28-03 11:13 AM   #65 
              - oh come now  WhoCountsTheVotes   Aug-28-03 01:32 PM   #88 
                 - Thanks for helping me make my point  zoidberg   Aug-28-03 01:51 PM   #90 
                 - you haven't made any points  WhoCountsTheVotes   Aug-28-03 03:08 PM   #105 
                 - I guess you're right  Nederland   Aug-28-03 02:22 PM   #93 
                    - "free trade" doesn't exist  WhoCountsTheVotes   Aug-28-03 03:06 PM   #104 
                       - Sure it does  Nederland   Aug-28-03 03:13 PM   #108 
                          - You sound like England during the Victorian/Edwardian era!  IrateCitizen   Aug-28-03 03:20 PM   #110 
                          - And you sound like Hoover before the Great Depression  Nederland   Aug-28-03 05:34 PM   #120 
                             - STOP PUTTING WORDS IN MY MOUTH, NEDERLAND!  IrateCitizen   Aug-29-03 07:39 AM   #122 
                          - you are ignoring the kind of government interference you like  WhoCountsTheVotes   Aug-28-03 03:23 PM   #111 
        - Friedman is an extremely bright man, but he thinks in a dream world  IrateCitizen   Aug-28-03 09:43 AM   #34 
     - I have and would in the future.  liberal_veteran   Aug-28-03 09:43 AM   #33 
     - Not All Factories Have Smokestacks  Crisco   Aug-28-03 09:56 AM   #38 
        - Well  jiacinto   Aug-28-03 03:05 PM   #103 
  - Regulated trade  sangh0   Aug-28-03 09:17 AM   #19 
  - "free" trade versus bi-lateral trade  welshTerrier2   Aug-28-03 09:24 AM   #21 
  - The current system of trade is hardly "free"  IrateCitizen   Aug-28-03 09:37 AM   #29 
  - this in a nutshell is my goal  buddhamama   Aug-28-03 10:13 AM   #44 
  - They do just fine  Nederland   Aug-28-03 10:20 AM   #47 
     - Vietnamese catfish  zoidberg   Aug-28-03 10:32 AM   #53 
        - How to raise catfish in VietNam  sangh0   Aug-28-03 03:36 PM   #115 
           - You can also add the following:  IrateCitizen   Aug-28-03 03:40 PM   #116 
  - "Free trade" is a propaganda term  WhoCountsTheVotes   Aug-28-03 09:44 AM   #35 
  - The Alternative  Nederland   Aug-28-03 10:17 AM   #46 
  - nah.  buddhamama   Aug-28-03 10:24 AM   #48 
  - Sure  Nederland   Aug-28-03 10:26 AM   #50 
     - "fair" pay  buddhamama   Aug-28-03 10:30 AM   #52 
     - Answer the question  Nederland   Aug-28-03 10:33 AM   #54 
        - international committee...  buddhamama   Aug-28-03 10:43 AM   #55 
        - Response  Nederland   Aug-28-03 11:07 AM   #59 
        - problem with basing wages solely on markets  buddhamama   Aug-28-03 11:03 AM   #58 
        - Not true  Nederland   Aug-28-03 11:07 AM   #60 
           - the whole system has become rigged  buddhamama   Aug-28-03 11:18 AM   #67 
              - Answer  Nederland   Aug-28-03 11:40 AM   #75 
                 - okay. but what would you do about it?  buddhamama   Aug-28-03 12:10 PM   #82 
                    - Simple  Nederland   Aug-28-03 02:27 PM   #94 
        - Wages...set by workers themselves?  Lydia Leftcoast   Aug-28-03 11:15 AM   #66 
           - Reality, not Fantasy  Nederland   Aug-28-03 11:30 AM   #71 
     - Who gets to define what's "fair" pay?  Bushknew   Aug-28-03 01:23 PM   #86 
        - Exactly  Nederland   Aug-28-03 02:29 PM   #95 
           - We had that policy once....we called them "sweatshops".....  liberal_veteran   Aug-28-03 02:36 PM   #97 
           - The Cure for Sweatshops  Nederland   Aug-28-03 02:54 PM   #100 
           - Sorry, forgot to include government in my reply.  Bushknew   Aug-28-03 03:35 PM   #114 
           - who has the upper hand in that negotiation?  WhoCountsTheVotes   Aug-28-03 03:52 PM   #117 
              - Let's Consider that  Nederland   Aug-28-03 05:32 PM   #119 
  - That's not what actually happens, Nederland  Lydia Leftcoast   Aug-28-03 11:08 AM   #61 
     - Mostly True  Nederland   Aug-28-03 11:23 AM   #69 
     - In addition, they invested heavily  Lydia Leftcoast   Aug-28-03 11:35 AM   #72 
        - Completely agree  Nederland   Aug-28-03 11:38 AM   #74 
           - South Korea heavily subsidized their economy and had protectionism  WhoCountsTheVotes   Aug-28-03 01:41 PM   #89 
              - You are correct  Nederland   Aug-28-03 02:21 PM   #92 
                 - Damned if we do, damned if we don't?  liberal_veteran   Aug-28-03 02:33 PM   #96 
                 - You're going in circles, Nederland  IrateCitizen   Aug-28-03 02:39 PM   #98 
                 - Disagree  Nederland   Aug-28-03 02:58 PM   #101 
                    - Then you're living in a fantasy land, Nederland!  IrateCitizen   Aug-29-03 07:44 AM   #123 
                 - no, the manufacturing base belongs to the US corps, not the country  WhoCountsTheVotes   Aug-28-03 03:02 PM   #102 
                    - Not Necessarily  Nederland   Aug-28-03 03:08 PM   #106 
                       - AND THEY DID IT THROUGH GOVERNMENT INTERVENTION!!!  IrateCitizen   Aug-28-03 03:14 PM   #109 
                          - absolutely right  WhoCountsTheVotes   Aug-28-03 03:29 PM   #113 
                          - Fine  Nederland   Aug-28-03 05:30 PM   #118 
     - <deleted>  Nederland   Aug-28-03 05:43 PM   #121 
  - world socialism  Terwilliger   Aug-28-03 11:10 AM   #62 
  - To begin with, let me say, we are seeing the results.  Clete   Aug-28-03 11:49 AM   #77 
  - worldwide socialism  leftofthedial   Aug-28-03 12:11 PM   #83 
  - American companies use only non white workers for their slave labor, why?  Bushknew   Aug-28-03 12:42 PM   #84 
  - Free trade is only fair trade in equal economies.....  liberal_veteran   Aug-29-03 07:58 AM   #124 
  - But isn't it the US workers who are afraid of competition???  IrateCitizen   Aug-29-03 08:05 AM   #125 
     - Well, let's take my own situation as an example...  liberal_veteran   Aug-29-03 08:29 AM   #126 
  - the present system is the alternative  Iverson   Aug-29-03 08:54 AM   #127 
     - no reply?  Iverson   Aug-29-03 10:57 PM   #129 
     - I will say something about question 3  Thankfully_in_Britain   Aug-30-03 04:00 AM   #130 
 

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