jiacinto
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Thu Aug-28-03 07:41 AM
Original message |
| What is the alternative to free trade? |
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Edited on Thu Aug-28-03 07:42 AM by jiacinto
A lot of DUers hate Free Trade. So let me ask you this. Here is a set of questions that I'd like answered.
Should everyone be working in factories forever? Secondly, is the goal to keep the US permanently an economy of industry?
I just want to know what the alternative is. I've seen for years people protest NAFTA and other treaties. I've seen what the alternative solution is. What is the anti-free trade vision exactly?
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| -What is the alternative to free trade? |
jiacinto |
Aug-28-03 07:41 AM |
#0 |
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fair trade |
bpilgrim |
Aug-28-03 07:45 AM |
#1 |
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Right on |
HFishbine |
Aug-28-03 11:13 AM |
#64 |
| -
Free trade isn't necessarily the issue... |
JM |
Aug-28-03 07:49 AM |
# |
| -
Nothing free about free trade |
muchacho |
Aug-28-03 07:49 AM |
#2 |
| -
right on, baby |
Iverson |
Aug-29-03 08:56 AM |
#128 |
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I have some of the same questions |
bryant69 |
Aug-28-03 07:49 AM |
#3 |
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agree with bp. and also... |
terryg11 |
Aug-28-03 07:53 AM |
#4 |
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Depends what a country is good at. |
Thankfully_in_Britain |
Aug-28-03 08:06 AM |
#9 |
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familiar with that but it seems outdated |
terryg11 |
Aug-28-03 08:12 AM |
#10 |
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More often then not.. |
Thankfully_in_Britain |
Aug-28-03 08:22 AM |
#12 |
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You misunderstand the concept of comparative advantage |
zoidberg |
Aug-28-03 09:16 AM |
#18 |
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No it wouldn't. |
liberal_veteran |
Aug-28-03 10:25 AM |
#49 |
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Nice to see that you know all about my background and ideas! |
zoidberg |
Aug-28-03 10:43 AM |
#56 |
| -
Why? |
liberal_veteran |
Aug-28-03 11:10 AM |
#63 |
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And that doesn't happen in factories? |
Thankfully_in_Britain |
Aug-28-03 11:36 AM |
#73 |
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Of course it does, but I was addressing the idea that white collar... |
liberal_veteran |
Aug-28-03 11:43 AM |
#76 |
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But I have to say |
Thankfully_in_Britain |
Aug-28-03 11:54 AM |
#78 |
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I couldn't agree more..... |
liberal_veteran |
Aug-28-03 12:03 PM |
#80 |
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"Untrained, unskilled workers in factories have never created jobs." |
liberal_veteran |
Aug-28-03 11:27 AM |
#70 |
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Looks like Walter Hickman created those jobs |
zoidberg |
Aug-28-03 11:59 AM |
#79 |
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The same holds true in reverse though. |
liberal_veteran |
Aug-28-03 12:08 PM |
#81 |
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When Walter Hickman can run that factory by himself |
WhoCountsTheVotes |
Aug-28-03 01:25 PM |
#87 |
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Again you have an incomplete solution to a complex problem. |
Clete |
Aug-28-03 03:25 PM |
#112 |
| -
well, |
buddhamama |
Aug-28-03 07:56 AM |
#5 |
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Naomi Klein has done some excellent analysis on this issue |
prolesunited |
Aug-28-03 07:59 AM |
#6 |
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I'd like genuine free trade |
Squeech |
Aug-28-03 08:02 AM |
#7 |
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protectionism |
leftyandproud |
Aug-28-03 08:05 AM |
#8 |
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Tarrifs Are A Sales Tax In Drag |
DemocratSinceBirth |
Aug-28-03 08:21 AM |
#11 |
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But it's a hidden tax |
zoidberg |
Aug-28-03 09:22 AM |
#20 |
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FAIR trade. End NAFTA, GATT, WTO. Form new trade agreements |
DemBones DemBones |
Aug-28-03 08:25 AM |
#13 |
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The problem comes from the focus |
Az |
Aug-28-03 08:33 AM |
#14 |
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whats wrong with being an industrial country ? |
jagguy |
Aug-28-03 08:39 AM |
#15 |
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Well |
jiacinto |
Aug-28-03 09:02 AM |
#16 |
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i knew it |
buddhamama |
Aug-28-03 09:11 AM |
#17 |
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What's wrong with everyone being a farmer? |
zoidberg |
Aug-28-03 09:25 AM |
#22 |
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you're getting off track |
buddhamama |
Aug-28-03 09:28 AM |
#24 |
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It's an apt comparison |
zoidberg |
Aug-28-03 09:33 AM |
#27 |
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retain factories |
buddhamama |
Aug-28-03 09:40 AM |
#31 |
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Retain factories |
Lydia Leftcoast |
Aug-28-03 11:01 AM |
#57 |
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Well said, Lydia! |
liberal_veteran |
Aug-28-03 11:19 AM |
#68 |
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Excellent point Lydia!!!! |
Bushknew |
Aug-28-03 01:13 PM |
#85 |
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It's completely disingenuous, zoidberg |
IrateCitizen |
Aug-28-03 09:48 AM |
#36 |
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Or, in other words |
sangh0 |
Aug-28-03 03:10 PM |
#107 |
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no we dont |
friendofbenn |
Aug-28-03 02:48 PM |
#99 |
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Get off the soapbox |
Blue_Chill |
Aug-28-03 09:31 AM |
#26 |
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no. |
buddhamama |
Aug-28-03 09:33 AM |
#28 |
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I don't look down on people in factories |
jiacinto |
Aug-28-03 02:11 PM |
#91 |
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I have never worked in a factory, but |
K-W |
Aug-28-03 09:27 AM |
#23 |
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You are wrong about monopolies |
zoidberg |
Aug-28-03 09:31 AM |
#25 |
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Oh! Well That Settles That |
ProfessorGAC |
Aug-28-03 09:39 AM |
#30 |
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Then disprove that claim |
zoidberg |
Aug-28-03 09:54 AM |
#37 |
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Hardly a "statement of fact", but rather a theory |
IrateCitizen |
Aug-28-03 10:01 AM |
#41 |
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He's Not That Widely Respected Anymore |
ProfessorGAC |
Aug-28-03 10:01 AM |
#42 |
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Not bloody likely |
K-W |
Aug-28-03 09:42 AM |
#32 |
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Name one then |
zoidberg |
Aug-28-03 09:56 AM |
#39 |
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As soon as you name on nation that truly practices free trade |
IrateCitizen |
Aug-28-03 09:58 AM |
#40 |
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Zero intervention in what area? |
Thankfully_in_Britain |
Aug-28-03 10:03 AM |
#43 |
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Microsoft? |
Nederland |
Aug-28-03 10:14 AM |
#45 |
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Perhaps |
zoidberg |
Aug-28-03 10:30 AM |
#51 |
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Microsoft is also shitting on it's workers.... |
liberal_veteran |
Aug-28-03 11:13 AM |
#65 |
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oh come now |
WhoCountsTheVotes |
Aug-28-03 01:32 PM |
#88 |
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Thanks for helping me make my point |
zoidberg |
Aug-28-03 01:51 PM |
#90 |
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you haven't made any points |
WhoCountsTheVotes |
Aug-28-03 03:08 PM |
#105 |
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I guess you're right |
Nederland |
Aug-28-03 02:22 PM |
#93 |
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"free trade" doesn't exist |
WhoCountsTheVotes |
Aug-28-03 03:06 PM |
#104 |
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Sure it does |
Nederland |
Aug-28-03 03:13 PM |
#108 |
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You sound like England during the Victorian/Edwardian era! |
IrateCitizen |
Aug-28-03 03:20 PM |
#110 |
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And you sound like Hoover before the Great Depression |
Nederland |
Aug-28-03 05:34 PM |
#120 |
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STOP PUTTING WORDS IN MY MOUTH, NEDERLAND! |
IrateCitizen |
Aug-29-03 07:39 AM |
#122 |
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you are ignoring the kind of government interference you like |
WhoCountsTheVotes |
Aug-28-03 03:23 PM |
#111 |
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Friedman is an extremely bright man, but he thinks in a dream world |
IrateCitizen |
Aug-28-03 09:43 AM |
#34 |
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I have and would in the future. |
liberal_veteran |
Aug-28-03 09:43 AM |
#33 |
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Not All Factories Have Smokestacks |
Crisco |
Aug-28-03 09:56 AM |
#38 |
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Well |
jiacinto |
Aug-28-03 03:05 PM |
#103 |
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Regulated trade |
sangh0 |
Aug-28-03 09:17 AM |
#19 |
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"free" trade versus bi-lateral trade |
welshTerrier2 |
Aug-28-03 09:24 AM |
#21 |
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The current system of trade is hardly "free" |
IrateCitizen |
Aug-28-03 09:37 AM |
#29 |
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this in a nutshell is my goal |
buddhamama |
Aug-28-03 10:13 AM |
#44 |
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They do just fine |
Nederland |
Aug-28-03 10:20 AM |
#47 |
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Vietnamese catfish |
zoidberg |
Aug-28-03 10:32 AM |
#53 |
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How to raise catfish in VietNam |
sangh0 |
Aug-28-03 03:36 PM |
#115 |
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You can also add the following: |
IrateCitizen |
Aug-28-03 03:40 PM |
#116 |
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"Free trade" is a propaganda term |
WhoCountsTheVotes |
Aug-28-03 09:44 AM |
#35 |
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The Alternative |
Nederland |
Aug-28-03 10:17 AM |
#46 |
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nah. |
buddhamama |
Aug-28-03 10:24 AM |
#48 |
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Sure |
Nederland |
Aug-28-03 10:26 AM |
#50 |
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"fair" pay |
buddhamama |
Aug-28-03 10:30 AM |
#52 |
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Answer the question |
Nederland |
Aug-28-03 10:33 AM |
#54 |
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international committee... |
buddhamama |
Aug-28-03 10:43 AM |
#55 |
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Response |
Nederland |
Aug-28-03 11:07 AM |
#59 |
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problem with basing wages solely on markets |
buddhamama |
Aug-28-03 11:03 AM |
#58 |
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Not true |
Nederland |
Aug-28-03 11:07 AM |
#60 |
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the whole system has become rigged |
buddhamama |
Aug-28-03 11:18 AM |
#67 |
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Answer |
Nederland |
Aug-28-03 11:40 AM |
#75 |
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okay. but what would you do about it? |
buddhamama |
Aug-28-03 12:10 PM |
#82 |
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Simple |
Nederland |
Aug-28-03 02:27 PM |
#94 |
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Wages...set by workers themselves? |
Lydia Leftcoast |
Aug-28-03 11:15 AM |
#66 |
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Reality, not Fantasy |
Nederland |
Aug-28-03 11:30 AM |
#71 |
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Who gets to define what's "fair" pay? |
Bushknew |
Aug-28-03 01:23 PM |
#86 |
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Exactly |
Nederland |
Aug-28-03 02:29 PM |
#95 |
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We had that policy once....we called them "sweatshops"..... |
liberal_veteran |
Aug-28-03 02:36 PM |
#97 |
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The Cure for Sweatshops |
Nederland |
Aug-28-03 02:54 PM |
#100 |
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Sorry, forgot to include government in my reply. |
Bushknew |
Aug-28-03 03:35 PM |
#114 |
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who has the upper hand in that negotiation? |
WhoCountsTheVotes |
Aug-28-03 03:52 PM |
#117 |
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Let's Consider that |
Nederland |
Aug-28-03 05:32 PM |
#119 |
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That's not what actually happens, Nederland |
Lydia Leftcoast |
Aug-28-03 11:08 AM |
#61 |
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Mostly True |
Nederland |
Aug-28-03 11:23 AM |
#69 |
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In addition, they invested heavily |
Lydia Leftcoast |
Aug-28-03 11:35 AM |
#72 |
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Completely agree |
Nederland |
Aug-28-03 11:38 AM |
#74 |
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South Korea heavily subsidized their economy and had protectionism |
WhoCountsTheVotes |
Aug-28-03 01:41 PM |
#89 |
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You are correct |
Nederland |
Aug-28-03 02:21 PM |
#92 |
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Damned if we do, damned if we don't? |
liberal_veteran |
Aug-28-03 02:33 PM |
#96 |
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You're going in circles, Nederland |
IrateCitizen |
Aug-28-03 02:39 PM |
#98 |
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Disagree |
Nederland |
Aug-28-03 02:58 PM |
#101 |
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Then you're living in a fantasy land, Nederland! |
IrateCitizen |
Aug-29-03 07:44 AM |
#123 |
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no, the manufacturing base belongs to the US corps, not the country |
WhoCountsTheVotes |
Aug-28-03 03:02 PM |
#102 |
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Not Necessarily |
Nederland |
Aug-28-03 03:08 PM |
#106 |
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AND THEY DID IT THROUGH GOVERNMENT INTERVENTION!!! |
IrateCitizen |
Aug-28-03 03:14 PM |
#109 |
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absolutely right |
WhoCountsTheVotes |
Aug-28-03 03:29 PM |
#113 |
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Fine |
Nederland |
Aug-28-03 05:30 PM |
#118 |
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<deleted> |
Nederland |
Aug-28-03 05:43 PM |
#121 |
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world socialism |
Terwilliger |
Aug-28-03 11:10 AM |
#62 |
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To begin with, let me say, we are seeing the results. |
Clete |
Aug-28-03 11:49 AM |
#77 |
| -
worldwide socialism |
leftofthedial |
Aug-28-03 12:11 PM |
#83 |
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American companies use only non white workers for their slave labor, why? |
Bushknew |
Aug-28-03 12:42 PM |
#84 |
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Free trade is only fair trade in equal economies..... |
liberal_veteran |
Aug-29-03 07:58 AM |
#124 |
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But isn't it the US workers who are afraid of competition??? |
IrateCitizen |
Aug-29-03 08:05 AM |
#125 |
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Well, let's take my own situation as an example... |
liberal_veteran |
Aug-29-03 08:29 AM |
#126 |
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the present system is the alternative |
Iverson |
Aug-29-03 08:54 AM |
#127 |
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no reply? |
Iverson |
Aug-29-03 10:57 PM |
#129 |
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I will say something about question 3 |
Thankfully_in_Britain |
Aug-30-03 04:00 AM |
#130 |
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