AP
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Mon Sep-06-04 03:38 PM
Response to Reply #128 |
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Edited on Mon Sep-06-04 03:40 PM by AP
I totally agree that you can talk about the aesthetics of a film without talking about its politics (and that's what those main-stream reviewers do in SusanG's links). But I don't think you can say that a movie is so aesthetically pleasing that you can't crticicize its politics. And a counterargument about aesthetcis isn't a counterargument about politics.
It's really hard to talk about movies at DU because often people have already seen the movie and have liked it and if you say something they don't like, or point out something they might not have noticed, they're either ashamed that they didn't catch it (especially if they imagine themselves to be politically savy) or they simply refuse to think they could enjoy something conservative that their response is to deny that talking about the politcs of a film is even legitimate.
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| -I just saw "Hero" and it's very right wing. |
AP |
Sep-04-04 11:25 PM |
#0 |
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Isn't that a Tarantino movie? |
Ohio Dem |
Sep-04-04 11:28 PM |
#1 |
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I don't think he wrote or directed it. I've heard that he was involved |
MirrorAshes |
Sep-04-04 11:32 PM |
#3 |
| -
He has a deal with Miramax to find movies for M to distribute. |
AP |
Sep-04-04 11:39 PM |
#4 |
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Well, I haven't seen it. But I'm willing to take your word for this, |
Ohio Dem |
Sep-04-04 11:58 PM |
#6 |
| -
It's interesting, and there are some amazing scenes, but it's just |
AP |
Sep-05-04 12:25 AM |
#9 |
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Yeah, the end is what did it. |
joshcryer |
Sep-05-04 01:46 AM |
#30 |
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I think you are being silly |
Sailorman |
Sep-05-04 06:29 PM |
#45 |
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Read the articles in my posts at the very bottom. |
AP |
Sep-05-04 08:01 PM |
#49 |
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oh come on now, everybody dies in Tarantino flicks |
tinanator |
Sep-06-04 12:10 PM |
#103 |
| -
I Fell Asleep - |
otohara |
Sep-04-04 11:29 PM |
#2 |
| -
The cowboys won, and apparently the indians should be happy about it. |
AP |
Sep-04-04 11:40 PM |
#5 |
| -
Yeah...they should have a speed reading contest with that movie! |
Tight_rope |
Sep-06-04 12:03 AM |
#67 |
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Actually, the message could be interpreted that way... |
familydoctor |
Sep-05-04 12:12 AM |
#7 |
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What I |
warrior1 |
Sep-05-04 12:17 AM |
#8 |
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Sure, there was a lot going on, but that last scene pretty firmly set out |
AP |
Sep-05-04 12:32 AM |
#11 |
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is this about the Qin dynasty? |
NuttyFluffers |
Sep-05-04 12:49 AM |
#13 |
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The potential subject matter for a film is infinite. There's no... |
AP |
Sep-05-04 12:56 AM |
#14 |
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yes, Qin dynasty |
librechik |
Sep-05-04 01:23 AM |
#23 |
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The assassin wasn't sacrificing himself. He was telling the king that you |
AP |
Sep-05-04 01:30 AM |
#26 |
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I think he *was* sacrificing himself. |
joshcryer |
Sep-05-04 01:53 AM |
#32 |
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He was taking a risk. But the upside was that the king was going... |
AP |
Sep-05-04 01:57 AM |
#34 |
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but, since it's the Qin dynasty, the emperor also lost. |
NuttyFluffers |
Sep-05-04 07:05 PM |
#46 |
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I made that same argument once about Europa, Europa... |
AP |
Sep-05-04 07:59 PM |
#48 |
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I'd call it more authoritarian than right wing. (nt) |
FeebMaster |
Sep-05-04 12:28 AM |
#10 |
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It was about imperialism. |
AP |
Sep-05-04 12:34 AM |
#12 |
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I thought the same thing. |
BillyBunter |
Sep-05-04 01:05 AM |
#15 |
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I think about 30 seconds of editing and a different title card at the end |
AP |
Sep-05-04 01:09 AM |
#17 |
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I haven't seen it yet so I can't comment on the film itself |
gee double you bee |
Sep-05-04 01:07 AM |
#16 |
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I should make it clear that I'm not trying to discourage anyone from pay- |
AP |
Sep-05-04 01:12 AM |
#18 |
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. |
gee double you bee |
Sep-05-04 01:18 AM |
#20 |
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Why are you blowing your cover in a thread about a movie? |
AP |
Sep-05-04 01:26 AM |
#25 |
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Stop being foolish |
gee double you bee |
Sep-05-04 01:31 AM |
#29 |
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Welcome to DU gee double you bee |
Tight_rope |
Sep-06-04 12:07 AM |
#69 |
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DON'T WASTE YOU MONEY GOING TO SEE IT...IT'S BULLSHIT! |
Tight_rope |
Sep-06-04 12:05 AM |
#68 |
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It begs the question then....****** spoiler alert ***** |
familydoctor |
Sep-05-04 01:17 AM |
#19 |
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No, I think it would have been better if it didn't make the argument |
AP |
Sep-05-04 01:22 AM |
#22 |
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Yeah...I know what you mean.... |
familydoctor |
Sep-05-04 01:31 AM |
#28 |
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I saw it and thought it pro-fascist in the theme. |
ezmojason |
Sep-05-04 01:22 AM |
#21 |
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Message: "we're killing you for peace -- it's for your own good" |
AP |
Sep-05-04 01:25 AM |
#24 |
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Kind of like Luke Skywalker joining... |
ezmojason |
Sep-05-04 01:31 AM |
#27 |
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"Message: "we're killing you for peace -- it's for your own good"" |
gee double you bee |
Sep-05-04 01:51 AM |
#31 |
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No. It doesn't. There's a title card at the end of the movie which |
AP |
Sep-05-04 01:54 AM |
#33 |
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I would like to suggest seeing it before... |
ezmojason |
Sep-05-04 01:59 AM |
#35 |
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It's visually very beautiful |
Kitsune |
Sep-05-04 02:13 AM |
#36 |
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Arguable. |
DrWeird |
Sep-05-04 02:24 AM |
#37 |
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Actually No |
Orion82 |
Sep-05-04 02:30 AM |
#38 |
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You mean the story of a bloody tyrant and the victims who love him. |
ezmojason |
Sep-05-04 02:43 AM |
#39 |
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Hero is pro-Fascism - one of the stars supports the Tiananmen massacre! |
Democat |
Sep-05-04 05:59 PM |
#40 |
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I think you completely missed the point of "Hero" |
Nlighten1 |
Sep-05-04 06:08 PM |
#41 |
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I've done a little research, and it turns out a lot of Chinese scholars... |
AP |
Sep-05-04 06:11 PM |
#42 |
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Link? |
Nlighten1 |
Sep-05-04 08:46 PM |
#51 |
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Two posts down. Mr. Chen, I believe is his name. |
AP |
Sep-05-04 10:15 PM |
#59 |
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I read that one already... |
Nlighten1 |
Sep-06-04 02:25 AM |
#84 |
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Evans Chan is a film scholar |
AP |
Sep-06-04 10:01 AM |
#91 |
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he is "a" film scholar |
Nlighten1 |
Sep-06-04 10:13 AM |
#96 |
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...furthermore, I've been much more generous to Yimou than others. |
AP |
Sep-05-04 06:20 PM |
#43 |
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Here's another person who agrees: |
AP |
Sep-05-04 06:25 PM |
#44 |
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that's a great link, thanks |
NuttyFluffers |
Sep-05-04 07:52 PM |
#47 |
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Love the picture in your signature |
Comicstripper |
Sep-05-04 08:38 PM |
#50 |
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Have'nt seen it yet |
walldude |
Sep-05-04 08:53 PM |
#52 |
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Good Grief, AP! You and I can't agree on anything! "Hero" was to me an |
KoKo01 |
Sep-05-04 08:53 PM |
#53 |
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Read the links in posts 43 and 44 and do a Google search. |
AP |
Sep-05-04 10:16 PM |
#60 |
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But isn't that the point of opinions about art? |
lazarus |
Sep-06-04 01:40 AM |
#75 |
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These aren't votes. These are arguments. |
AP |
Sep-06-04 10:15 AM |
#97 |
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For an alternative review |
lazarus |
Sep-06-04 02:25 PM |
#122 |
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Hero is SO MUCH about politics. It's about the formation of the country |
AP |
Sep-06-04 02:52 PM |
#126 |
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First |
lazarus |
Sep-06-04 03:28 PM |
#128 |
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The right-wing part is this: |
AP |
Sep-06-04 03:34 PM |
#129 |
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One more thing: |
AP |
Sep-06-04 03:38 PM |
#131 |
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Understood |
lazarus |
Sep-06-04 04:15 PM |
#133 |
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Ha! |
adamrsilva |
Sep-05-04 08:53 PM |
#54 |
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Did you get that Itzak Perleman played the cello for the soundtrack and |
KoKo01 |
Sep-05-04 09:00 PM |
#55 |
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One of the stars of the movie supported the Tiananmen Square massacre! |
Democat |
Sep-05-04 10:53 PM |
#63 |
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So? |
lazarus |
Sep-06-04 01:41 AM |
#76 |
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The person I replied to was talking about the cello player! |
Democat |
Sep-06-04 05:16 AM |
#85 |
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I misunderstood |
lazarus |
Sep-06-04 02:26 PM |
#123 |
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The point isn't that an actor in the film had this opinion. |
AP |
Sep-06-04 10:11 AM |
#95 |
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Utter Bullshit |
Northwind |
Sep-05-04 09:11 PM |
#56 |
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Read the links in posts 43 and 44. They go into more detail and are |
AP |
Sep-05-04 10:18 PM |
#61 |
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Read 'em, so what? |
Northwind |
Sep-06-04 07:21 AM |
#88 |
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I'm going to guess from that nonesense... |
AP |
Sep-06-04 10:09 AM |
#94 |
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Are You Serious? |
InfoMinister |
Sep-05-04 09:12 PM |
#57 |
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Very ironic statement given your name. |
ezmojason |
Sep-05-04 09:15 PM |
#58 |
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Excellent comment. |
AP |
Sep-05-04 10:18 PM |
#62 |
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I Think Some People Take Films Too Seriously |
InfoMinister |
Sep-06-04 01:21 AM |
#73 |
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I thought it was a pretty good film... |
ezmojason |
Sep-06-04 01:34 AM |
#74 |
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and Battleship Potemkin and Alexander Nevsky are also great movies |
AP |
Sep-06-04 10:06 AM |
#92 |
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Right wing sites aren't going to use cultural criticism to discredit... |
AP |
Sep-06-04 10:08 AM |
#93 |
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Conspiracies Are What I'm Talking About |
InfoMinister |
Sep-06-04 10:58 AM |
#99 |
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And I could take quotes from the freepers or Lucianniacs |
meluseth |
Sep-06-04 01:22 PM |
#107 |
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It's Subjective |
InfoMinister |
Sep-06-04 01:34 PM |
#110 |
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Some people are trained historians |
meluseth |
Sep-06-04 01:37 PM |
#111 |
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That Doesn't Make Any Sense |
InfoMinister |
Sep-06-04 01:45 PM |
#113 |
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A movie is not just entertainment, is the point |
meluseth |
Sep-06-04 01:49 PM |
#114 |
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I Read The Books |
InfoMinister |
Sep-06-04 01:52 PM |
#115 |
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I don't know why you are determined to separate movies from other |
meluseth |
Sep-06-04 02:01 PM |
#117 |
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Why Do You Feel It's So Important To Change My Mind? |
InfoMinister |
Sep-06-04 02:02 PM |
#118 |
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I'm not trying to change your mind, just pointing out flaws in your logic |
meluseth |
Sep-06-04 02:12 PM |
#119 |
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I Say It's All Based on Perception |
InfoMinister |
Sep-06-04 02:15 PM |
#120 |
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Well, that's very postmodernist, isn't it? |
meluseth |
Sep-06-04 02:18 PM |
#121 |
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Funny, Ive heard it describe as sympathetic with commies. |
cosmicvortex20 |
Sep-05-04 11:01 PM |
#64 |
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Michael Tapper might say it's sympathetic with some of the fascistic |
AP |
Sep-06-04 12:35 AM |
#71 |
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I think their is a better term for these type systems... |
cosmicvortex20 |
Sep-06-04 01:20 AM |
#72 |
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Actually it's (probably) very Chinese... |
amjsjc |
Sep-05-04 11:26 PM |
#65 |
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See post 44 for Mr Chan's argument about that issue. |
AP |
Sep-06-04 12:32 AM |
#70 |
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Yes, perfectly plausible |
amjsjc |
Sep-06-04 01:56 AM |
#80 |
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I saw that stupid movie today too...Totally BULLSHIT! |
Tight_rope |
Sep-06-04 12:02 AM |
#66 |
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That's a shame |
lazarus |
Sep-06-04 01:45 AM |
#77 |
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Review from the Asia Times |
meluseth |
Sep-06-04 01:50 AM |
#78 |
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Exactly spot on. |
ezmojason |
Sep-06-04 01:58 AM |
#81 |
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From the Salon.com Review that does not share your view |
Susang |
Sep-06-04 01:54 AM |
#79 |
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That is an incredibly weak argument, and very circumstantial evidence. |
AP |
Sep-06-04 09:17 AM |
#90 |
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I can play the "support my point of view" game too |
Susang |
Sep-06-04 12:07 PM |
#101 |
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What's your argument about the film? |
AP |
Sep-06-04 12:10 PM |
#102 |
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"Simply descriptive"? |
Susang |
Sep-06-04 12:43 PM |
#104 |
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That isn't really a counterargument. |
AP |
Sep-06-04 01:08 PM |
#106 |
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Interpret as you will |
Susang |
Sep-06-04 01:30 PM |
#109 |
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I think what those reviews show... |
AP |
Sep-06-04 01:53 PM |
#116 |
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Then you and I disagree |
Susang |
Sep-06-04 02:37 PM |
#124 |
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I just don't think that's much of an argument. |
AP |
Sep-06-04 02:49 PM |
#125 |
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Thanks Susang...The movie has incredible symbolism. I'm planning on |
KoKo01 |
Sep-06-04 01:22 PM |
#108 |
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It usually takes me several viewings |
Susang |
Sep-06-04 01:37 PM |
#112 |
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I Need To See It Again, Because It Read So Damn Fast |
otohara |
Sep-06-04 03:37 PM |
#130 |
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Chinese culture is a lot different than US culture |
NewJeffCT |
Sep-07-04 12:10 PM |
#137 |
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For those who care, some biographical info on the director |
Susang |
Sep-06-04 01:58 AM |
#82 |
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Other biographies note that he eventually gives in to the powers that be |
Democat |
Sep-06-04 05:19 AM |
#86 |
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You lose! |
mkuhl |
Sep-06-04 10:32 AM |
#98 |
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The movie makes a hero of another murderous megalomaniac leader |
Democat |
Sep-06-04 03:05 PM |
#127 |
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Actually, it makes a hero of a murderous assassin. |
DrWeird |
Sep-07-04 11:58 AM |
#136 |
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Yes, obviously this director is exactly the same as Leni Riefenstahl |
Susang |
Sep-06-04 11:08 AM |
#100 |
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You have to remember |
sir_captain |
Sep-07-04 12:34 PM |
#138 |
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Hate the politics, but love the art |
Columbia |
Sep-06-04 02:20 AM |
#83 |
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"Hero" is not as mainstream as "Crouching Tiger" |
0007 |
Sep-06-04 05:28 AM |
#87 |
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Usualy I'm at odds with you on other subjects, but |
Capt_Nemo |
Sep-06-04 07:33 AM |
#89 |
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Does it feel tacked on? Some sort of Beijing influence on the film? |
jpgray |
Sep-06-04 12:50 PM |
#105 |
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I heard |
RedDragon |
Sep-06-04 03:39 PM |
#132 |
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How so? I would say it is more anti-Bush, who just happens to be |
Vickers |
Sep-07-04 11:50 AM |
#134 |
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Assumptions about who the Hero is? |
RichardRay |
Sep-07-04 11:55 AM |
#135 |
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