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Reply #143: right, we can also rail against the "incarceration culture" [View All]

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unblock Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-09-04 05:09 AM
Response to Reply #134
143. right, we can also rail against the "incarceration culture"
these private prisons are making big money and worse, are LOBBYING congress and legislatures and influencing what's illegal and what the sentences are, so that they can make MORE money.

this opens up some obviously scary possibilities.


i should also point out that disenfranchisement hardly seems reasonable, e.g., for someone who, say, committed a single felony 50 years ago. i mean, is it really right to say that someone who committed tax evasion or insider trading or assault at the age of 21 should have no say at the age of 71 in who the president is, after having successfully served their one year non-prison sentence a hal century earlier?
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  -31.2% of all black men in florida have been BANNED FROM VOTING FOR LIFE unblock  Aug-07-04 08:06 PM   #0 
  - maybe that's what's behind  spooked   Aug-07-04 08:09 PM   #1 
  - Of course it is.  HamHocks4Kerry   Aug-07-04 08:14 PM   #8 
     - Are there any white felons that are allowed to vote?  Revolution1   Aug-09-04 09:45 AM   #161 
        - I don't know - do you?  ChavezSpeakstheTruth   Aug-09-04 10:18 AM   #164 
        - I'll bet they are.  thisismyboomstick3   Aug-09-04 12:50 PM   #196 
           - Hmmm- interesting theory  ChavezSpeakstheTruth   Aug-09-04 12:52 PM   #197 
        - My understanding its "Felons" - but since the large majority of Felons are  Pachamama   Aug-11-04 12:44 AM   #222 
  - maybe that's what's behind  spooked   Aug-07-04 08:09 PM   #2 
  - I'm shocked they haven't burned that entire state to the ground  Mojambo   Aug-07-04 08:10 PM   #3 
  - That is illegal  Revolution1   Aug-09-04 10:04 AM   #163 
  - Of course there's a simpler alternative`  Frodo   Aug-07-04 08:10 PM   #4 
  - Sure Frodo, lets pretend that this isn't a racist country  Cheswick   Aug-07-04 08:24 PM   #10 
  - "Let's pretend" something else?  Frodo   Aug-07-04 08:31 PM   #16 
     - Pure and total bullshit  RetroLounge   Aug-07-04 09:14 PM   #49 
     - Thanks for the thoughtful input  Frodo   Aug-07-04 09:17 PM   #51 
        - You get what your post deserves  RetroLounge   Aug-07-04 09:20 PM   #53 
           - So you're saying....  Frodo   Aug-07-04 09:23 PM   #55 
              - so you're saying ...  unblock   Aug-07-04 09:29 PM   #59 
                 - You think it's a reward?  Frodo   Aug-07-04 09:34 PM   #62 
                    - it's a reward for political partisans  unblock   Aug-07-04 09:38 PM   #64 
     - "If you're law abiding, you have nothing to worry about!"  kiahzero   Aug-07-04 11:53 PM   #86 
        - BZZZ! Wrong answer. No partial credit for showing your work  Frodo   Aug-08-04 07:44 AM   #105 
        - bzzz! wrong answer. you're waaaay to naive  unblock   Aug-08-04 07:58 AM   #106 
           - Riiiight. Cocaine is a felony BECAUSE blacks do it more than whites.  Frodo   Aug-08-04 08:10 AM   #110 
              - frodo, stop putting words in my mouth.  unblock   Aug-08-04 08:31 AM   #112 
              - Exactly: Cocaine is a "white" drug, crack is a "black" one.  gtrump   Aug-08-04 09:38 AM   #117 
                 - According to ferderal sentencing statistics  Frodo   Aug-08-04 03:15 PM   #119 
                    - WE ALREADY LOCK UP MORE PEOPLE ON DRUG CHARGES  stickdog   Aug-08-04 06:50 PM   #124 
                       - Is "kiddy porn" a non-violent crime?  Frodo   Aug-08-04 07:34 PM   #126 
                          - An argument advanced in the 1920s  kiahzero   Aug-08-04 10:02 PM   #130 
                          - Ding ding ding! Give the man a cupie doll  Frodo   Aug-09-04 06:07 AM   #147 
                             - Yes, of course, crack is the only drug there is.  JCCyC   Aug-09-04 09:06 AM   #156 
                             - "Straw man"?  Frodo   Aug-09-04 11:19 AM   #167 
                                - Don't insult everybody's intelligence by pretending not to know...  JCCyC   Aug-09-04 12:08 PM   #175 
                                   - You read selectively, eh?  Frodo   Aug-09-04 12:16 PM   #181 
                             - Straw man  kiahzero   Aug-09-04 06:40 PM   #207 
                          - My PERSONAL habit?  stickdog   Aug-09-04 01:18 AM   #131 
                             - lol. If you had an Internet connection... how would I know the difference?  Frodo   Aug-09-04 06:04 AM   #146 
                                - If you are in jail or even on probation or parole, you don't get to vote.  stickdog   Aug-09-04 06:40 AM   #149 
                                   - I EAGERLY AWAIT FRODO'S ANSWER TO THIS POST  JCCyC   Aug-09-04 09:08 AM   #157 
                                      - I would prefer.  Frodo   Aug-09-04 11:14 AM   #165 
                                         - Keep in mind that the sentence + probation is FINITE.  JCCyC   Aug-09-04 11:50 AM   #169 
                                         - Not always  Frodo   Aug-09-04 12:02 PM   #173 
                                         - Access to guns, cars, or potential victims, may cause harm to innocents.  JCCyC   Aug-09-04 12:11 PM   #177 
                                         - Wait.... but they've "paid their debt" to society!  Frodo   Aug-09-04 12:22 PM   #185 
                                         - I don't like three-strikes law either.  JCCyC   Aug-09-04 12:33 PM   #190 
                                         - Me neither. So we agree on something?  Frodo   Aug-09-04 12:40 PM   #192 
                                         - I fail to see your point  wuushew   Aug-09-04 01:19 PM   #204 
                                         - Dupe - self deleted  JCCyC   Aug-09-04 12:12 PM   #179 
                                         - If someone has served their time for a crime & still a citizen, why should  Pachamama   Aug-11-04 01:00 AM   #223 
              - if you look at the disparity in sentencing....  DoNotRefill   Aug-08-04 06:39 PM   #123 
                 - I've looked. It appears to be racist in favor of Hispanic against blacks.  Frodo   Aug-08-04 07:56 PM   #128 
                    - So that makes it OK? That it treats Latinos even worse makes it OK?  stickdog   Aug-09-04 01:20 AM   #132 
                       - Ok (but it isn't MY logic, It's statistics applied to THEIR logic)  Frodo   Aug-09-04 05:49 AM   #145 
                          - The point is that FAR more WHITES get busted for coke than for crack.  stickdog   Aug-09-04 06:46 AM   #150 
                             - Yeah, but  Frodo   Aug-09-04 07:46 AM   #151 
        - Keep dreaming Kiahzero...being law abiding have nothing to do with it!  Tight_rope   Aug-09-04 09:10 PM   #214 
  - Oh! I understand!  BareKnuckledLiberal   Aug-07-04 08:26 PM   #12 
  - this is yet more bu**sh**. why do they even face that test?  unblock   Aug-07-04 08:26 PM   #13 
  - "No other reason"?  Frodo   Aug-07-04 08:39 PM   #20 
     - banning felons from GETTING elected is another thing entirely  unblock   Aug-07-04 08:56 PM   #38 
     - Lol! Ummm 2000?  Frodo   Aug-07-04 09:05 PM   #42 
        - are you saying that president gore would have led to mayhem??!?  unblock   Aug-07-04 09:10 PM   #46 
        - I didn't say felons voting led to mayhem  Frodo   Aug-07-04 09:16 PM   #50 
           - That's not how it should work in a real democracy  Barret   Aug-07-04 10:48 PM   #77 
           - The problem there is obvious.  Frodo   Aug-08-04 07:07 AM   #101 
              - oh please! they disenfranchise blacks and so I'M the racist!  unblock   Aug-08-04 08:09 AM   #109 
           - Hmmmm....  Barret   Aug-07-04 10:54 PM   #78 
           - No actually  Frodo   Aug-08-04 07:13 AM   #102 
              - Your willful ignorance makes me vomit.  stickdog   Aug-08-04 06:59 PM   #125 
              - you don't beleive in rehabilitation then?  Djinn   Aug-08-04 07:39 PM   #127 
              - You make choices every day  69KV   Aug-09-04 12:02 PM   #172 
                 - Tell you that "with a straight face"???  Frodo   Aug-09-04 12:10 PM   #176 
                    - I suppose  69KV   Aug-09-04 12:49 PM   #195 
                       - Let's use the short answer. No.  Frodo   Aug-09-04 01:01 PM   #200 
           - "He who shows no respect for rules should not be MAKING the rules."  69KV   Aug-09-04 12:19 PM   #183 
        - Well, with that argument, then if Felons were allowed to have voted in the  Pachamama   Aug-11-04 01:10 AM   #224 
     - I'd rather have felons determine public policy than Repugs.  olddem43   Aug-07-04 09:26 PM   #56 
     - HEY! Let's use THAT on political advertising.  Frodo   Aug-07-04 09:59 PM   #72 
        - No, we can't. What can say is that WE HAVE TO MANY FUCKING  stickdog   Aug-09-04 01:37 AM   #134 
           - right, we can also rail against the "incarceration culture"  unblock   Aug-09-04 05:09 AM   #143 
     - Do you have a poor short term memory?  Barret   Aug-07-04 10:43 PM   #76 
     - Oh, that's right, we want to treat them as less than human  kiahzero   Aug-07-04 11:55 PM   #87 
     - What part of  69KV   Aug-09-04 12:13 PM   #180 
  - You make civil torts a felony and we'll have 60% white males  The Backlash Cometh   Aug-07-04 08:40 PM   #21 
  - There's a reason some crimes are "felonies" and some are not.  Frodo   Aug-07-04 08:44 PM   #24 
     - putting aside such sentencing as crack vs. cocaine,  unblock   Aug-07-04 08:53 PM   #33 
     - So try to change drug crimes from felonies to misdemenors.  Frodo   Aug-07-04 08:59 PM   #39 
        - no, no, no, no, no! not at all!  unblock   Aug-07-04 09:03 PM   #41 
           - How do you define "punishment"???  Frodo   Aug-07-04 09:12 PM   #48 
              - of course it's all part of the punishment  unblock   Aug-07-04 09:18 PM   #52 
     - Actually, white collar crime generally occurs with people who  The Backlash Cometh   Aug-08-04 12:58 PM   #118 
        - "White collar" crimes are not by definition "non-felonies"  Frodo   Aug-08-04 03:17 PM   #120 
           - It's just more difficult to prosecute,  The Backlash Cometh   Aug-08-04 05:44 PM   #121 
           - Sure there is  69KV   Aug-09-04 12:07 PM   #174 
              - That doesn't make much sense  Frodo   Aug-09-04 12:33 PM   #189 
  - I cannot believe what you are saying. I have a friend whose son got  LittleApple81   Aug-07-04 09:41 PM   #65 
  - That's not the laws, it's the enforcement.  Frodo   Aug-07-04 10:07 PM   #73 
     - Yeah, but a person without the $3,500 will spend time in jail. n/t  LittleApple81   Aug-07-04 10:08 PM   #74 
     - Bullshit. Drugs and petty dealing shouldn't be FELONIES at all, Frodo.  stickdog   Aug-07-04 11:46 PM   #84 
        - Ok, I get it. Cocaine is just antibiotics for poor people?  Frodo   Aug-08-04 06:52 AM   #99 
           - You're nuts, Frodo. Get a grip. Petty dealers are a SYMPTOM.  stickdog   Aug-08-04 06:31 PM   #122 
           - Rush Limbaugh hopes his Drug use doesn't count as a felony...  Pachamama   Aug-11-04 01:29 AM   #225 
  - That's DemocratIC, frodo. You can't say it, can you?  tom_paine   Aug-09-04 03:06 AM   #141 
  - Wow, good call.  JCCyC   Aug-09-04 09:17 AM   #159 
  - You do know your "argument" can be used to justify the most outlandish...  JCCyC   Aug-09-04 08:50 AM   #154 
  - Look, Frodo  69KV   Aug-09-04 11:38 AM   #168 
     - Don't forget copyright infringement too. Was a misdemeanor, is a felony.  JCCyC   Aug-09-04 12:18 PM   #182 
  - Mass disenfranchisement leads to revolution is my guess...  whistle   Aug-07-04 08:12 PM   #5 
  - That's a good point  69KV   Aug-09-04 11:50 AM   #170 
  - Or maybe ...  takebackthewh   Aug-07-04 08:12 PM   #6 
  - This will only be fixed by unelected judges  bluestateguy   Aug-07-04 08:14 PM   #7 
  - A lot of felonies are pure BS  shadu   Aug-07-04 08:17 PM   #9 
  - this is all bull.  Medialize   Aug-07-04 08:25 PM   #11 
  - lol!  unblock   Aug-07-04 08:29 PM   #15 
  - no one should be disenfranchised  Cheswick   Aug-07-04 08:28 PM   #14 
     - it goes beyond that. NO ONE should be disenfranchised.  unblock   Aug-07-04 08:31 PM   #18 
     - There's another answer to your #13  Frodo   Aug-07-04 08:42 PM   #23 
     - you don't think state and federal laws can handle this situation?  unblock   Aug-07-04 08:50 PM   #31 
        - So now a Governor can diessenfranchise people at will??  Frodo   Aug-07-04 08:56 PM   #37 
           - i don't know where you got the 'gov can disenfranchise people at will' bit  unblock   Aug-07-04 09:00 PM   #40 
              - There's one near me  Yupster   Aug-08-04 01:07 AM   #91 
                 - For the rest of their life  Pithlet   Aug-08-04 01:30 AM   #96 
     - Don't forget the people disenfranchised in FL for sharing names w/ Felons  Pachamama   Aug-11-04 01:34 AM   #226 
     - Who has paid their debt.....  Medialize   Aug-07-04 08:50 PM   #28 
     - Are you willing to...  RoeBear   Aug-07-04 08:50 PM   #30 
        - delete  TeacherCreature   Aug-09-04 11:54 AM   #171 
  - Pardon my naivet, but,  coreystone   Aug-07-04 08:31 PM   #17 
  - these most likely violate the voting rights act as well  unblock   Aug-07-04 08:40 PM   #22 
  - Depends on how you define "paid one's debt"  Frodo   Aug-07-04 08:50 PM   #29 
  - How about year eleven,  coreystone   Aug-07-04 08:54 PM   #35 
  - You still haven't justified banning them from vote FOR LIFE.  JCCyC   Aug-09-04 09:03 AM   #155 
  - Corey, uh the republicans squeal its State Rights but I say  vetwife   Aug-07-04 11:22 PM   #82 
  - 14th Amendment  Yupster   Aug-08-04 01:11 AM   #92 
  - Rather than lowering crime it probably has the opposite effect -  olddem43   Aug-07-04 08:33 PM   #19 
  - this is just racism pure and simple.  CaTeacher   Aug-07-04 08:46 PM   #25 
     - If we did give the vote back to felons can you imagine...  RoeBear   Aug-07-04 08:55 PM   #36 
     - Pure and simple racist disenfranchisement.  ProfLefty   Aug-08-04 01:40 AM   #97 
        - Explain...  RoeBear   Aug-08-04 07:42 AM   #104 
  - consider this NIGHTMARE scenario  unblock   Aug-07-04 08:48 PM   #26 
  - WHY are you assuming we commit more crimes than Republicans?!?!  Frodo   Aug-07-04 08:53 PM   #34 
     - i'm not .. i'm just assuming republicans can find SOMETHING  unblock   Aug-07-04 09:08 PM   #45 
        - You keep saying that but claiming that you're NOT.  Frodo   Aug-07-04 09:21 PM   #54 
           - but they CAN decide what's a felony by who they want to disenfranchise.  unblock   Aug-07-04 09:27 PM   #57 
              - I AGREE  Frodo   Aug-07-04 09:32 PM   #60 
                 - the law won't get fixed as long as there's a political incentive not to  unblock   Aug-07-04 09:42 PM   #66 
                 - I guess the problem I have is that you are mostly correct.  Frodo   Aug-07-04 09:53 PM   #71 
                    - i DON'T want to give the right to vote to felons  unblock   Aug-08-04 12:52 AM   #88 
                 - Frodo, instead of fixing the 126,874,398,564 laws that  kgfnally   Aug-08-04 01:06 AM   #90 
                    - Hmmm. Maybe because the lighter the punishment the more likely the crime?  Frodo   Aug-08-04 06:56 AM   #100 
                    - ha ha ha ha ha ha!!! just TRY to find one person deterred from a felony  unblock   Aug-08-04 08:20 AM   #111 
                    - the problem with the death penalty/deterrent argument  kgfnally   Aug-09-04 01:49 AM   #137 
                    - You're missing the point a bit.  kgfnally   Aug-09-04 01:42 AM   #135 
                    - Do you have any EVIDENCE for these wild claims?  stickdog   Aug-09-04 01:48 AM   #136 
                    - Because he's BETTER than those damn FELONS!  stickdog   Aug-09-04 01:53 AM   #138 
                       - exactly, now, where's the incentive to be good?  unblock   Aug-09-04 05:18 AM   #144 
                       - Ok. So you're arguing ANY punishment is too severe  Frodo   Aug-09-04 06:10 AM   #148 
                          - YOUR post is hyperbole. STICKDOG's post is  JCCyC   Aug-09-04 12:25 PM   #186 
                             - You were saying something earlier about sarcasm?  Frodo   Aug-09-04 12:42 PM   #193 
  - I suspect that the majority of these  Catt03   Aug-07-04 08:48 PM   #27 
  - wait a minute...  Killarney   Aug-07-04 08:50 PM   #32 
  - that's right!  unblock   Aug-07-04 09:11 PM   #47 
  - Lol!  Frodo   Aug-08-04 07:41 AM   #103 
     - ANSWER THIS: Do you like the songs by the rock band The Pretenders?  JCCyC   Aug-09-04 09:10 AM   #158 
        - Not familiar with them  Frodo   Aug-09-04 12:37 PM   #191 
  - Wake up ya'll..Not only do you lose voting rights. I could tell you more  vetwife   Aug-07-04 11:17 PM   #80 
  - You can't own a firearm either or have one in your possession  vetwife   Aug-07-04 11:19 PM   #81 
     - But that's only for felonies that involve guns, or am I wrong? (nt)  JCCyC   Aug-09-04 12:21 PM   #184 
  - This is so sad.  goforit   Aug-07-04 09:06 PM   #43 
  - Thank you unblock for starting this thread.  coreystone   Aug-07-04 09:07 PM   #44 
  - The best argument for this point of view  Frodo   Aug-07-04 09:28 PM   #58 
     - that's a good argument  unblock   Aug-07-04 09:46 PM   #67 
        - here are a few examples:  unblock   Aug-07-04 09:49 PM   #68 
        - Sorry, I should have been more specific.  Frodo   Aug-07-04 09:49 PM   #70 
  - Florida's ACLU is currently involved in litigation and other efforts  depakote_kid   Aug-07-04 09:32 PM   #61 
  - i'd put my money on the paraplegic  unblock   Aug-07-04 09:34 PM   #63 
  - here are a few examples  unblock   Aug-07-04 09:49 PM   #69 
  - No shit!  Barret   Aug-07-04 10:37 PM   #75 
  - Can't vote in Georgia if you have been cnvicted. Wonder what  vetwife   Aug-07-04 11:08 PM   #79 
     - 10.5% of all black men; 2.5% of all adults  unblock   Aug-08-04 12:55 AM   #89 
        - Ex-felons can vote in Georgia  69KV   Aug-09-04 12:12 PM   #178 
  - IMO, persons in prison should be allowed to vote  Walt Starr   Aug-07-04 11:43 PM   #83 
  - It's Jim Crow redux. Nothing more and nothing less.  stickdog   Aug-07-04 11:51 PM   #85 
  - there is just no excuse for this.  CaTeacher   Aug-08-04 01:12 AM   #93 
     - Right on!  ProfLefty   Aug-08-04 01:47 AM   #98 
  - A little history: ADMITTED RACIAL MOTIVES led to these disfranchisement  AirAmFan   Aug-08-04 01:18 AM   #94 
  - One of our board members is a black man who lost his voting rights  BevHarris   Aug-08-04 01:21 AM   #95 
  - Bev, I hope it gets a lot of viewing !  vetwife   Aug-08-04 08:09 AM   #108 
  - After they have served their time, they should be able to vote.  Zynx   Aug-08-04 08:01 AM   #107 
  - Some of the attitudes expressed resemble Les Miserable...  Misinformed01   Aug-08-04 08:56 AM   #113 
  - Another great thread...  deseo   Aug-08-04 08:59 AM   #114 
  - Actually, I think some people just don't get it  pbl   Aug-08-04 09:21 AM   #115 
  - Good point  69KV   Aug-09-04 12:56 PM   #198 
     - Awww, don't do THAT  Frodo   Aug-09-04 01:08 PM   #202 
  - Un-frickin'-believable  gtrump   Aug-08-04 09:29 AM   #116 
  - Bush disfranchised thousands of 'felons' JUST LAST MONTH!  AirAmFan   Aug-08-04 07:57 PM   #129 
  - Give Felons right to Vote = Democratic Victory  Fescue4u   Aug-09-04 01:23 AM   #133 
  - Very transparent.  stickdog   Aug-09-04 01:58 AM   #139 
     - Deleted message  Name removed   Aug-09-04 03:08 AM   #142 
     - Nice. Real nice  Fescue4u   Aug-09-04 08:35 AM   #153 
     - What?  Fescue4u   Aug-09-04 08:33 AM   #152 
  - It is the RIGHT of EVERY American CITIZEN to VOTE!!!  Swamp_Rat   Aug-09-04 02:14 AM   #140 
  - Really?  Frodo   Aug-09-04 11:15 AM   #166 
     - Do you NOT believe that ALL American citizens have the right to vote?  Swamp_Rat   Aug-09-04 06:09 PM   #206 
        - There are SIX U.S. citizens living in this house. TWO can vote.  Frodo   Aug-09-04 07:50 PM   #209 
           - Show me specifically where.  Swamp_Rat   Aug-09-04 08:01 PM   #210 
              - Article I section II.  Frodo   Aug-09-04 08:36 PM   #211 
                 - Be more specific as to your understanding of "Article I section II."  Swamp_Rat   Aug-09-04 09:02 PM   #213 
                    - Article I section II  Frodo   Aug-09-04 09:21 PM   #215 
                       - Are you sure about disparate impact vs. disparate effect?  wuushew   Aug-09-04 09:26 PM   #216 
                       - That quote was from a Supreme Court decision  Frodo   Aug-09-04 09:43 PM   #217 
                       - You didn't answer my questions about YOUR opinion  Swamp_Rat   Aug-09-04 11:54 PM   #218 
                          - Oh.... MY opinion?  Frodo   Aug-10-04 06:16 AM   #220 
                             - So people with a 10 yr old mentality should not get to vote.  Swamp_Rat   Aug-10-04 02:25 PM   #221 
  - Kick  qwertyMike   Aug-09-04 09:36 AM   #160 
  - The reason we disenfranchise felons . .  msmcghee   Aug-09-04 10:01 AM   #162 
  - It is right to  Freols   Aug-09-04 12:28 PM   #187 
     - I'd think twice too.  msmcghee   Aug-09-04 03:22 PM   #205 
  - rhenquist would love to make blacks 3/5ths of a person again  noiretblu   Aug-09-04 12:29 PM   #188 
  - What about White Felons?  thisismyboomstick3   Aug-09-04 12:48 PM   #194 
  - Do you mean 31% of black men in FL are felons?  TexasSissy   Aug-09-04 12:58 PM   #199 
  - Read it with a grain of salt  Frodo   Aug-09-04 01:06 PM   #201 
  - Can't speak for felon population as a whole.....  sjbech   Aug-09-04 06:48 PM   #208 
  - felons or ex-felons  unblock   Aug-10-04 12:07 AM   #219 
     - and people with similar names, birth dates  rman   Aug-11-04 02:22 AM   #228 
  - Can someone please explain the data for N. Dakota and Montana  Used and Abused   Aug-09-04 01:17 PM   #203 
  - So, first they're put in prison, where they work for next-to-nothing...  AlienGirl   Aug-09-04 08:41 PM   #212 
     - I just don't get it.  praxiz   Aug-11-04 01:58 AM   #227 
 

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