Lydia Leftcoast
(1000+ posts)
Send PM |
Profile |
Ignore
|
Wed Jul-28-04 04:06 PM
Response to Reply #136 |
| 162. The U.S. had a pretty libertarian economy in the 19th century |
|
and the excesses and criminal acts of unregulated business and landowners led to the regulations that modern economic libertarians hate so much.
The Securities and Exchange Commission was founded because of massive fraud that made Enron look like a 3-card monte game.
The Food and Drug Administration was founded because farmers were knowingly selling meat and milk from sick animals, food was processed under filthy conditions, and patent medicine manufacturers knowingly filled their concoctions with opiates to ensure that the customers came back for more.
There was no welfare. Unemployed poor people who didn't meet the stringent (and highly judgmental) requirements of the private charities had no alternative to crime or prostitution.
No laws against child labor. Children went to work at age 6 and grew up illiterate.
Workers on strike? The law was heavily on the side of the employers, and workers were told that they could just go work somewhere else if they didn't like it.
You know what would have happened to our national park lands if the government hadn't started preserving them in 1872? Imagine Yellowstone Park with each geyser privately owned and the wilderness entirely replaced with ticky-tacky souvenir shops and amusement parks. Far-fetched? Nope. It's exactly what happened to Beppu, Japan, one of four places in the entire world with geysers.
Oh, yeah, a libertarian economy would produce heaven on earth--as long as you could live in a gated community and hire private guards.
|
| -Libertarianism... What a bunch of BULLSHIT!!!! |
devilgrrl |
Jul-26-04 03:44 PM |
#0 |
-
word |
NoodleBoy |
Jul-26-04 03:46 PM |
#1 |
-
actually, there are people working on it... |
ixion |
Jul-26-04 03:51 PM |
#2 |
 -
You're mostly right |
asthmaticeog |
Jul-26-04 03:56 PM |
#10 |
  -
I second that Asthmaticeog! You're absolutely right. |
LSU_Subversive |
Jul-27-04 11:11 PM |
#112 |
  -
Thanks... |
deseo |
Jul-28-04 07:00 AM |
#155 |
 -
Well, Libertarians don't have any problem meddling with |
The Backlash Cometh |
Jul-26-04 04:19 PM |
#19 |
-
Amen to that... |
MrBenchley |
Jul-26-04 03:52 PM |
#3 |
-
Libertarianism is... |
Birthmark |
Jul-26-04 03:53 PM |
#4 |
-
Libertarianism: The very worst of conservative and liberal values... |
arbusto_baboso |
Jul-26-04 03:53 PM |
#5 |
 -
The worst of conservative AND liberal values? |
neverborn |
Jul-27-04 03:54 AM |
#28 |
 -
Yeah, right... It's the sides of Conservatism and Liberalism that |
impeachdubya |
Jul-27-04 04:09 AM |
#31 |
-
If you don't want to tithe 45% to church and pay 45% income tax... |
JVS |
Jul-27-04 04:14 PM |
#77 |
-
Libertarianism |
bryant69 |
Jul-26-04 03:54 PM |
#6 |
-
Libertarianism is best described as... |
WillW |
Jul-26-04 03:54 PM |
#7 |
 -
Or those of freshmen college students |
fujiyama |
Jul-27-04 05:03 AM |
#43 |
-
Sounds "Left-Libertarian" to me... |
impeachdubya |
Jul-27-04 08:04 AM |
#52 |
 -
We have a club!?! |
JHB |
Jul-27-04 10:50 AM |
#61 |
-
*lol* |
WMass astronomer |
Jul-27-04 09:56 AM |
#57 |
 -
Right, and now that I'm grown up |
impeachdubya |
Jul-27-04 05:13 PM |
#79 |
-
The government told corporations they can't polute my water... |
kiahzero |
Jul-29-04 01:21 AM |
#174 |
-
i prefer calling myself a civil libertine... |
NuttyFluffers |
Jul-28-04 04:31 AM |
#143 |
-
I'm A "Resident Of Hedonia", myself... n/t |
impeachdubya |
Jul-28-04 06:00 AM |
#153 |
-
So do a whole litany of minor parties.... |
rinsd |
Jul-26-04 03:55 PM |
#8 |
-
Primarily appeals to 15-30 year olds smoking weed |
Argumentus |
Jul-26-04 03:56 PM |
#9 |
 -
Libertarians are concerned with reducing FEDERAL power... |
leftyandproud |
Jul-26-04 04:00 PM |
#11 |
  -
I guess I'm referring to the more extreme Libertarians |
Argumentus |
Jul-26-04 04:03 PM |
#15 |
   -
Yeah there are different types... |
guruant |
Jul-26-04 04:08 PM |
#16 |
  -
Not where I'm from. |
donco6 |
Jul-26-04 04:12 PM |
#17 |
   -
Gilded Age... |
WillW |
Jul-26-04 04:19 PM |
#18 |
    -
That seems pretty clear to me. |
donco6 |
Jul-26-04 04:29 PM |
#20 |
    -
I don't think the Gilded Age is a good representation |
Columbia |
Jul-27-04 12:15 AM |
#22 |
    -
The libertarian answer to everything is |
p0X |
Jul-27-04 11:38 PM |
#118 |
   -
Shut down the video stores! |
ronabop |
Jul-27-04 04:23 AM |
#34 |
  -
?? don't know what you sat on to make you say that...? |
NuttyFluffers |
Jul-28-04 04:45 AM |
#145 |
  -
i like freeways, post office, judicial systems, etc... |
NuttyFluffers |
Jul-28-04 04:38 AM |
#144 |
 -
You don't have to be a "15-30 year old smoking weed" |
impeachdubya |
Jul-27-04 04:18 AM |
#32 |
-
Great post =) |
neverborn |
Jul-27-04 04:20 AM |
#33 |
-
nope, still don't see libertarian in there... |
NuttyFluffers |
Jul-28-04 04:57 AM |
#146 |
 -
I'm right there with you. |
impeachdubya |
Jul-28-04 05:58 AM |
#152 |
-
The smell of burning straw |
dpibel |
Jul-28-04 05:41 AM |
#148 |
-
We're playing Semantics Here.. |
impeachdubya |
Jul-28-04 05:55 AM |
#151 |
-
The difference between "small L" and "big L" |
Cicero |
Jul-29-04 01:31 PM |
#179 |
-
The only Libertarian I ever locked horns with believed in |
Cleita |
Jul-26-04 04:02 PM |
#12 |
-
Deleted |
Cleita |
Jul-26-04 04:02 PM |
#13 |
-
Deleted |
Cleita |
Jul-26-04 04:03 PM |
#14 |
-
This could have been an interesting discussion of libertarian v. |
MajorFlaw |
Jul-27-04 12:11 AM |
#21 |
 -
Thank you. |
secondtermdenier |
Jul-27-04 03:55 AM |
#29 |
  -
Agreed. Libertarians serve a purpose, as they can always be counted on |
MajorFlaw |
Jul-27-04 06:08 AM |
#48 |
 -
Especially with the administration currently in power |
Nadienne |
Jul-27-04 08:29 AM |
#54 |
 -
There'd have to be a "value" beyond childish self-interest |
MrBenchley |
Jul-27-04 08:20 AM |
#53 |
-
Don't knock "comic book" values |
JHB |
Jul-27-04 11:11 AM |
#62 |
-
Sell Cloverleaf salve and win a pony... |
MrBenchley |
Jul-29-04 07:16 AM |
#178 |
-
Pro-choice, pro-gay, anti-war, church/state seperation stances |
japanduh |
Jul-27-04 12:21 AM |
#23 |
 -
In theory, yes... |
durutti |
Jul-27-04 03:46 AM |
#25 |
-
And Zell Miller and Joementum call themselves Democrats. |
japanduh |
Jul-27-04 04:41 AM |
#36 |
-
Libertarianism is just conservatism packaged for marketing to college kids |
durutti |
Jul-27-04 03:44 AM |
#24 |
-
Some of you guys sound like FReepers. |
neverborn |
Jul-27-04 03:49 AM |
#26 |
 -
Funny thing is Freepers hate Libertarians more than we do. |
japanduh |
Jul-27-04 04:48 AM |
#38 |
  -
That doesn't mean the vitriol here is okay. |
neverborn |
Jul-27-04 04:54 AM |
#40 |
   -
No it doesn't. Point is, we should be working WITH Libertarians. |
japanduh |
Jul-27-04 05:34 AM |
#46 |
    -
Yes, and the fact that the Christian taliban wing has taken over the GOP |
impeachdubya |
Jul-27-04 08:03 AM |
#51 |
   -
Sorry for the vitriol... |
devilgrrl |
Jul-27-04 11:38 PM |
#117 |
  -
I tell people here, who know other people who "cant stomach" Kerry |
impeachdubya |
Jul-27-04 04:56 AM |
#42 |
 -
And when you say increasingly libertarian, do you mean the |
Donkeyboy75 |
Jul-28-04 03:39 PM |
#159 |
-
My husband calls them the "Kindergarten wing of the GOP" |
Solly Mack |
Jul-27-04 03:49 AM |
#27 |
 -
Really. What does that make the people |
impeachdubya |
Jul-27-04 04:55 AM |
#41 |
-
Those are the out and out idiots of the GOP. Got anymore questions? |
Solly Mack |
Jul-27-04 02:13 PM |
#63 |
-
Libertarianism has worked well... |
ronabop |
Jul-27-04 03:59 AM |
#30 |
 -
Memes in a Petri Dish |
porphyrian |
Jul-27-04 03:23 PM |
#69 |
-
Most Libertarians seem |
Piperay |
Jul-27-04 04:36 AM |
#35 |
 -
Meet Howard Stern and Bill Maher. |
japanduh |
Jul-27-04 04:47 AM |
#37 |
  -
TERRIFIC... |
Piperay |
Jul-27-04 05:06 AM |
#45 |
 -
Are you talking about Libertarian Party Members? |
impeachdubya |
Jul-27-04 04:53 AM |
#39 |
-
Actually I was thinking of some |
Piperay |
Jul-27-04 05:05 AM |
#44 |
-
Yeah, I'm with you, the media |
impeachdubya |
Jul-27-04 07:57 AM |
#50 |
-
Individualist Anarchists |
toddaa |
Jul-27-04 06:07 AM |
#47 |
 -
Yeah, the minute some chucklehead starts quoting |
impeachdubya |
Jul-27-04 07:54 AM |
#49 |
 -
I very much agree with you |
Cats Against Frist |
Jul-27-04 09:52 AM |
#56 |
 -
Bakunin and Goldman weren't individualists |
tomorrowsashes |
Jul-27-04 04:11 PM |
#76 |
-
What's so terrible about defending an individual's right |
Nadienne |
Jul-27-04 08:41 AM |
#55 |
 -
Kill The HERETIC!!!!! |
impeachdubya |
Jul-27-04 05:39 PM |
#89 |
-
More like |
Nadienne |
Jul-28-04 08:19 AM |
#157 |
-
Beats Communism on the naîvette scale, by a nose. |
JCCyC |
Jul-27-04 09:57 AM |
#58 |
 -
Libertarians are cynical, not naive. BIG difference. n/t |
MajorFlaw |
Jul-27-04 10:24 AM |
#59 |
  -
Some naive people only THINK they're being cynical. |
Blue-Jay |
Jul-27-04 02:30 PM |
#64 |
 -
I suspect that most naive people are unaware of their naivete. Thats sort |
MajorFlaw |
Jul-27-04 02:51 PM |
#67 |
 -
You've got to be joking. |
neverborn |
Jul-27-04 03:42 PM |
#73 |
-
Speaking as someone who describes himself as "left libertarian"... |
JHB |
Jul-27-04 10:31 AM |
#60 |
 -
I'll give it a shot |
sangh0 |
Jul-27-04 02:39 PM |
#66 |
-
Yet Government is the one the obsess on... |
JHB |
Jul-27-04 03:30 PM |
#71 |
-
Just like the Republicans |
sangh0 |
Jul-28-04 04:08 PM |
#163 |
-
Libertarianism = throwing the environment in the toilet |
blindpig |
Jul-27-04 02:39 PM |
#65 |
-
True believers |
69KV |
Jul-27-04 03:08 PM |
#68 |
 -
Well, I guess that's why I've never voted for a Libertarian Candidate |
impeachdubya |
Jul-27-04 05:35 PM |
#86 |
-
Left-libertarians |
69KV |
Jul-27-04 11:06 PM |
#109 |
-
Not unless we're talking about some weird Gene Roddenberry future... |
impeachdubya |
Jul-28-04 12:44 AM |
#126 |
-
k, just read this one after i replied once already to you... |
NuttyFluffers |
Jul-28-04 05:23 AM |
#147 |
-
I guess they're not exclusive... |
impeachdubya |
Jul-28-04 06:16 AM |
#154 |
-
:) thanks for the site |
NuttyFluffers |
Jul-28-04 03:29 PM |
#158 |
-
Doesn't Neil Boortz claim to be libertarian |
rniel |
Jul-27-04 03:28 PM |
#70 |
 -
He's still trying to sell himself as one ... |
p0X |
Jul-27-04 11:46 PM |
#119 |
-
Their views on individidual behavior are fine |
Lydia Leftcoast |
Jul-27-04 03:32 PM |
#72 |
 -
Libertarian with regards to the adult individual's rights |
impeachdubya |
Jul-27-04 05:24 PM |
#83 |
-
When I think of Libertarian (Big L) |
Pithlet |
Jul-27-04 06:36 PM |
#99 |
-
That's how I self identify, too... |
impeachdubya |
Jul-27-04 06:47 PM |
#103 |
-
Libertarian Socialism (anarchism) has been put into practice before |
tomorrowsashes |
Jul-27-04 03:53 PM |
#74 |
 -
The right-wing kind of libertarianism has been put into practice too |
69KV |
Jul-27-04 11:27 PM |
#115 |
-
Ugh I Know... |
Lizz612 |
Jul-27-04 03:58 PM |
#75 |
 -
The problem with drug control |
tomorrowsashes |
Jul-27-04 04:19 PM |
#78 |
 -
I'm not convinced that law enforcement is the best way |
impeachdubya |
Jul-27-04 05:29 PM |
#84 |
-
what utter bullshit. |
Waverley_Hills_Hiker |
Jul-27-04 06:31 PM |
#98 |
 -
Thanks for refuting my argument |
impeachdubya |
Jul-27-04 06:44 PM |
#102 |
-
*sigh* |
Lizz612 |
Jul-27-04 08:25 PM |
#105 |
-
Well, I'm glad you're enough of an expert on all chemicals |
impeachdubya |
Jul-28-04 05:41 AM |
#149 |
-
Good Post |
tomorrowsashes |
Jul-28-04 03:47 PM |
#161 |
-
Listen |
Lizz612 |
Jul-28-04 04:46 PM |
#164 |
-
Not trying to sound patronizing. |
impeachdubya |
Jul-28-04 05:14 PM |
#165 |
 -
I think my thoughts are not solidified yet |
Lizz612 |
Jul-28-04 07:53 PM |
#168 |
-
From where I sit, those are excellent questions... |
impeachdubya |
Jul-28-04 08:51 PM |
#171 |
-
See we can all be reasonable and open and we can get somewhere! |
Lizz612 |
Jul-29-04 12:30 AM |
#172 |
-
Re; Your Edit-- |
impeachdubya |
Jul-28-04 05:19 PM |
#167 |
-
Libertarianism=Republicans who like to smoke pot |
XanthaS |
Jul-27-04 05:14 PM |
#80 |
 -
So, then, I take it you speak for the entire Democratic Party |
impeachdubya |
Jul-27-04 05:17 PM |
#81 |
-
All of the Libertarians I've personally met.... |
XanthaS |
Jul-27-04 05:19 PM |
#82 |
-
Okay, again, are we talking about registered libertarians, |
impeachdubya |
Jul-27-04 05:33 PM |
#85 |
-
One of the Libertarians I know... |
XanthaS |
Jul-27-04 05:41 PM |
#90 |
-
Cool. I keep saying, if folks like that can't deal with Kerry--- |
impeachdubya |
Jul-27-04 05:45 PM |
#91 |
-
Time for the Political Compass Link |
impeachdubya |
Jul-27-04 05:38 PM |
#87 |
 -
Economic Left/Right: -4.38 Social Libertarian/Authoritarian: -6.97 |
impeachdubya |
Jul-27-04 05:38 PM |
#88 |
 -
I'm familiar with that particular political compass test ... |
XanthaS |
Jul-27-04 05:46 PM |
#93 |
  -
Well, I think reducing everything to a linear "right-left" |
impeachdubya |
Jul-27-04 06:23 PM |
#95 |
 -
That's the problem I have with this particular compass |
XanthaS |
Jul-27-04 06:29 PM |
#97 |
 -
So, you wouldn't put Stalin on the "left"? |
impeachdubya |
Jul-27-04 06:42 PM |
#101 |
 -
Economic: -10.0, Social: -8.87 |
tomorrowsashes |
Jul-27-04 07:42 PM |
#104 |
-
They have one big plus in their column |
hatrack |
Jul-27-04 05:46 PM |
#92 |
 -
Yes, the taxation and laissez-faire principles...... |
XanthaS |
Jul-27-04 05:50 PM |
#94 |
 -
I agree 100% n/t |
impeachdubya |
Jul-27-04 06:24 PM |
#96 |
-
This is a crackpot, cranky ideology... |
Waverley_Hills_Hiker |
Jul-27-04 06:42 PM |
#100 |
-
Libertarians are selfish |
Killarney |
Jul-27-04 08:31 PM |
#106 |
-
SCREW YOU!!!! What do you have against Librarians? |
Cronus |
Jul-27-04 08:41 PM |
#107 |
 -
Show me a few instances where Libertarian ideas have been put into use... |
devilgrrl |
Jul-27-04 11:25 PM |
#114 |
-
Libertarians don't think there should be a public sphere at all |
eridani |
Jul-27-04 08:41 PM |
#108 |
-
Liberatarians are Republicans who smoke pot |
Must_B_Free |
Jul-27-04 11:09 PM |
#110 |
 -
Yes they are |
Scorpious_Maximus |
Jul-27-04 11:10 PM |
#111 |
 -
Hey! I posted that same thing above! |
XanthaS |
Jul-28-04 03:41 PM |
#160 |
-
I know two...both losers |
Hobarticus |
Jul-27-04 11:14 PM |
#113 |
-
First thing to ask a libertarian ... |
p0X |
Jul-27-04 11:36 PM |
#116 |
-
The real good political test -- 10 questions. |
neverborn |
Jul-28-04 12:09 AM |
#120 |
 -
Whose answers? |
devilgrrl |
Jul-28-04 12:32 AM |
#123 |
  -
And please explain to me where |
impeachdubya |
Jul-28-04 12:34 AM |
#124 |
 -
What? |
devilgrrl |
Jul-28-04 12:41 AM |
#125 |
 -
OK, that was not entirely clear from some of your posts. |
impeachdubya |
Jul-28-04 01:07 AM |
#131 |
 -
Sorry... |
devilgrrl |
Jul-28-04 01:10 AM |
#133 |
 -
Thanks for that |
GoneOffShore |
Jul-28-04 05:15 PM |
#166 |
-
As a libertarian (mostly)... |
Tommythegun |
Jul-28-04 12:24 AM |
#121 |
 -
i don't think i am alone |
father_twilight |
Jul-28-04 12:46 AM |
#127 |
-
Russia in 1917... |
Tommythegun |
Jul-28-04 12:52 AM |
#128 |
-
ummm |
father_twilight |
Jul-28-04 01:08 AM |
#132 |
-
Competitive?... |
Tommythegun |
Jul-28-04 01:13 AM |
#134 |
-
ummmm, no |
father_twilight |
Jul-28-04 01:24 AM |
#135 |
-
Whoa! Quite a lot there... |
Tommythegun |
Jul-28-04 01:47 AM |
#136 |
-
The U.S. had a pretty libertarian economy in the 19th century |
Lydia Leftcoast |
Jul-28-04 04:06 PM |
#162 |
-
of course it does |
father_twilight |
Jul-28-04 12:30 AM |
#122 |
-
As a resident libertarian please let me say |
Liberal Classic |
Jul-28-04 01:00 AM |
#129 |
 -
Amen brother!... |
Tommythegun |
Jul-28-04 01:07 AM |
#130 |
-
I believe libertarianism is a good,,, |
pbg |
Jul-28-04 01:50 AM |
#137 |
 -
True enough... |
Tommythegun |
Jul-28-04 01:53 AM |
#138 |
 -
Or, like God answering prayer, |
impeachdubya |
Jul-28-04 01:55 AM |
#139 |
-
And sometimes... |
pbg |
Jul-28-04 02:20 AM |
#141 |
-
And sometimes... |
impeachdubya |
Jul-28-04 02:42 AM |
#142 |
-
Libertarianism doesn't even sound good on paper to me |
Shiru |
Jul-28-04 02:16 AM |
#140 |
-
A Libertarian government would be |
damkira |
Jul-28-04 05:51 AM |
#150 |
-
one thing Libertarians rarely talk about, |
rman |
Jul-28-04 07:16 AM |
#156 |
 -
Lets just get rid of the people... that will solve the problem! |
cosmicvortex20 |
Jul-28-04 07:56 PM |
#169 |
-
I've got a libertarian friend |
ASanders84 |
Jul-28-04 08:05 PM |
#170 |
-
social libertarians are great, but when it comes to ECONOMICS........ |
texas is the reason |
Jul-29-04 01:19 AM |
#173 |
-
Most "Libertarians" are really Bush supporters who don't want to admit it |
Democat |
Jul-29-04 01:21 AM |
#175 |
-
screw the label left libertarian. |
Sirveri |
Jul-29-04 02:22 AM |
#176 |
-
so, "social libertarian" = liberal, progressive |
rman |
Jul-29-04 02:46 AM |
#177 |