| 153. that's because your analogy is flawed. |
|
Medicaid provides services to the poor, and is therefore a base service by nature. Same with food stamps. Roads are useable by anyone. Unless you are going to posit a nation full of private schools willing to accept all comers, public money for private education equates to public resources given for the benefit of the few. Let's cut to the chase, Nederland: to work, public education must be essentially socialist. 
|
| -do you know anyone wants vouchers |
pstokely |
Aug-18-03 05:26 AM |
#0 |
-
Some want them for religious education... |
rfranklin |
Aug-18-03 06:34 AM |
#1 |
 -
a $1000. voucher will do NOTHING to get these kids in a better school |
ElsewheresDaughter |
Aug-18-03 10:04 AM |
#8 |
-
Yes, but... |
zoidberg |
Aug-18-03 10:20 AM |
#15 |
 -
You know what would happen if the gov't gave everyone 1K or 8K |
AP |
Aug-18-03 10:47 AM |
#22 |
-
hm, thats strange because the average tuition |
MassDem4Life |
Aug-18-03 11:46 AM |
#39 |
-
$5600 where I live |
sandnsea |
Aug-18-03 01:54 PM |
#54 |
-
but if one is not Catholic |
ulysses |
Aug-18-03 03:23 PM |
#82 |
 -
only mentioned them because |
MassDem4Life |
Aug-19-03 12:18 PM |
#196 |
-
parochial schools tend to be the cheapest |
ulysses |
Aug-20-03 04:33 AM |
#217 |
-
nearesr Parochial school is 35 miles away and it only goes to 8th gd |
ElsewheresDaughter |
Aug-18-03 08:16 PM |
#160 |
-
People who already are in private schools want them. |
The Backlash Cometh |
Aug-18-03 09:46 AM |
#2 |
 -
Private school parent here who doesn't want them even though it is |
MrsGrumpy |
Aug-18-03 10:03 AM |
#7 |
-
Yes, everyone who is already paying for private school |
slackmaster |
Aug-18-03 09:55 AM |
#3 |
 -
Disagree, and my kid goes to a private school. I don't want vouchers... |
MrsGrumpy |
Aug-18-03 10:02 AM |
#6 |
  -
OK, "everyone" was an exaggeration |
slackmaster |
Aug-18-03 10:07 AM |
#9 |
   -
Actually, we are quite lucky. Our tuition is only $2000 which is difficult |
MrsGrumpy |
Aug-18-03 10:10 AM |
#12 |
  -
well your reason "get her away from certain group of kids" ..... |
ElsewheresDaughter |
Aug-18-03 10:09 AM |
#10 |
   -
It hasn't a damn thing to do with drugs, and everything to do with |
MrsGrumpy |
Aug-18-03 10:17 AM |
#14 |
  -
mrsgrumpy...whoah..sorry and you're correct... |
ElsewheresDaughter |
Aug-18-03 11:01 AM |
#28 |
  -
Forgiven. |
MrsGrumpy |
Aug-18-03 02:02 PM |
#57 |
  -
That's an interesting point |
zoidberg |
Aug-18-03 10:22 AM |
#16 |
 -
think about this... |
MassDem4Life |
Aug-18-03 11:52 AM |
#42 |
-
Oooh .... arithmetic! |
recidivist |
Aug-18-03 03:57 PM |
#99 |
 -
it may be true |
darboy |
Aug-18-03 05:54 PM |
#142 |
-
Interesting |
Nederland |
Aug-18-03 06:17 PM |
#146 |
-
oh my, there is SO much wrong with your post... where to start? |
MassDem4Life |
Aug-19-03 12:32 PM |
#197 |
-
In CO, the voucher leaves 15% of the district's . . . |
donco6 |
Aug-18-03 09:21 PM |
#166 |
-
I knew someone who used Pell Grants to help pay for Rice |
zoidberg |
Aug-18-03 09:59 AM |
#4 |
-
i know a texas friend bush lover who has his kids in very upscale... |
ElsewheresDaughter |
Aug-18-03 10:01 AM |
#5 |
-
Yes |
Nederland |
Aug-18-03 10:09 AM |
#11 |
 -
Wouldn't SAT scores show that? |
Blue_Chill |
Aug-18-03 11:04 AM |
#30 |
-
SAT's only part of it |
Nederland |
Aug-18-03 12:00 PM |
#45 |
-
As long as you look at retention & test rates |
sandnsea |
Aug-18-03 01:59 PM |
#55 |
-
That's a long time to wait to determine effectiveness. |
donco6 |
Aug-18-03 09:23 PM |
#167 |
-
Vouchers are needed |
Muddleoftheroad |
Aug-18-03 10:13 AM |
#13 |
 -
One question |
Bridget Burke |
Aug-18-03 10:31 AM |
#17 |
  -
Nope |
bicentennial_baby |
Aug-18-03 10:33 AM |
#19 |
  -
the issue is not |
MassDem4Life |
Aug-18-03 11:56 AM |
#43 |
  -
If overnight tomorrow, each kid got a voucher, |
Yupster |
Aug-18-03 05:29 PM |
#130 |
   -
FINALLY |
MassDem4Life |
Aug-19-03 12:35 PM |
#198 |
   -
great....the big gamble |
noiretblu |
Aug-20-03 08:16 AM |
#221 |
  -
Then you try something else |
Yupster |
Aug-20-03 09:26 AM |
#227 |
  -
What if it only gets the kid into an adequate private school |
Yupster |
Aug-18-03 05:30 PM |
#131 |
 -
To improve public schools, put tax money into public schools |
AP |
Aug-18-03 10:49 AM |
#23 |
-
I disagree |
Blue_Chill |
Aug-18-03 10:58 AM |
#26 |
 -
Why are many schools failing? |
Star |
Aug-20-03 12:02 AM |
#214 |
-
History |
Nederland |
Aug-18-03 11:46 AM |
#40 |
-
DUH...can't throw money at the problem!!!! |
noiretblu |
Aug-18-03 02:16 PM |
#63 |
-
If a school is currently getting |
Yupster |
Aug-18-03 05:31 PM |
#132 |
-
No. Why can't we just improve the failing Public Schools? |
JanMichael |
Aug-18-03 10:32 AM |
#18 |
 -
The attack |
Muddleoftheroad |
Aug-18-03 10:46 AM |
#21 |
  -
But your solution -- help this generation of students -- |
AP |
Aug-18-03 10:52 AM |
#24 |
   -
Destroying public education |
Muddleoftheroad |
Aug-18-03 11:07 AM |
#34 |
    -
destroyed communities = destroyed schools |
noiretblu |
Aug-18-03 05:49 PM |
#139 |
   -
No |
Nederland |
Aug-18-03 11:12 AM |
#37 |
  -
How does it help public schools to take money out of the public purse |
AP |
Aug-18-03 03:22 PM |
#81 |
  -
why do you assume that |
MassDem4Life |
Aug-19-03 10:59 PM |
#208 |
  -
That's only half of it. |
JanMichael |
Aug-18-03 10:56 AM |
#25 |
   -
Quality education can not be sacrificed for social engineering |
Blue_Chill |
Aug-18-03 11:03 AM |
#29 |
  -
Ah, but it's not about being incompetant. |
JanMichael |
Aug-18-03 11:05 AM |
#31 |
  -
Sacrificing others |
Muddleoftheroad |
Aug-18-03 11:08 AM |
#35 |
   -
the schools were puroposely damaged |
noiretblu |
Aug-18-03 02:24 PM |
#66 |
  -
D.C. is different |
Muddleoftheroad |
Aug-18-03 02:40 PM |
#70 |
  -
where is the money going? is it being spent properly? |
noiretblu |
Aug-18-03 02:48 PM |
#75 |
  -
gitcha new model here |
ma4t |
Aug-19-03 11:49 AM |
#194 |
  -
Sacrifice adults who don't do their job or children? |
Blue_Chill |
Aug-18-03 11:10 AM |
#36 |
   -
equal accountability...i'm all for it |
noiretblu |
Aug-18-03 02:28 PM |
#68 |
  -
I don't care who people blame |
Yupster |
Aug-18-03 05:41 PM |
#137 |
  -
will vouchers put poor kids in your son's school? |
noiretblu |
Aug-18-03 05:47 PM |
#138 |
   -
My thought is |
Yupster |
Aug-18-03 08:29 PM |
#162 |
  -
where are these schools? do they exist? who would run them? |
noiretblu |
Aug-18-03 09:38 PM |
#169 |
  -
I think they would be |
Yupster |
Aug-18-03 10:38 PM |
#174 |
  -
impossible to know how vouchers would actually work?!?! |
noiretblu |
Aug-20-03 08:24 AM |
#223 |
  -
Yes, new ideas and new alternatives |
Yupster |
Aug-20-03 09:31 AM |
#228 |
  -
i'm all for experimentation |
noiretblu |
Aug-20-03 01:27 PM |
#232 |
  -
What would happen to a senior who refused to participate? |
Star |
Aug-20-03 09:45 AM |
#231 |
  -
trust me |
MassDem4Life |
Aug-18-03 12:07 PM |
#47 |
  -
For Parents, There's Always an Option |
Crisco |
Aug-18-03 10:59 AM |
#27 |
  -
fix the problems? what a novel concept |
noiretblu |
Aug-18-03 02:18 PM |
#64 |
  -
Even with vouchers |
DoYouEverWonder |
Aug-18-03 03:57 PM |
#100 |
 -
Got a plan? |
Nederland |
Aug-18-03 11:48 AM |
#41 |
  -
Perhaps change the way that they're financed? |
JanMichael |
Aug-18-03 12:41 PM |
#50 |
 -
How About This? |
Nederland |
Aug-18-03 01:20 PM |
#52 |
 -
because |
MassDem4Life |
Aug-18-03 11:59 AM |
#44 |
-
OMFG. Not ALL are BAD!!!!! |
JanMichael |
Aug-18-03 12:43 PM |
#51 |
-
I support vouchers in theory.. |
MaverickX |
Aug-18-03 10:34 AM |
#20 |
-
Sure Do (Know Somebody Who etc.etc.) |
UTUSN |
Aug-18-03 11:06 AM |
#32 |
 -
I know somebody like that too. |
Demobrat |
Aug-18-03 11:15 AM |
#38 |
-
My parents would have like them very much |
Blue_Chill |
Aug-18-03 11:06 AM |
#33 |
 -
please remember |
MassDem4Life |
Aug-18-03 12:12 PM |
#48 |
-
But teachers' salaries don't max out that high |
zoidberg |
Aug-18-03 12:14 PM |
#49 |
 -
Response |
Nederland |
Aug-18-03 01:25 PM |
#53 |
  -
what about bloated administrative salaries? |
noiretblu |
Aug-18-03 02:20 PM |
#65 |
 -
You've got to admit |
Blue_Chill |
Aug-18-03 10:22 PM |
#172 |
 -
what about bloated administrative salaries? |
noiretblu |
Aug-20-03 08:43 AM |
#225 |
 -
excuse me bt, |
MassDem4Life |
Aug-18-03 02:46 PM |
#72 |
-
sadly, i believe that is true |
noiretblu |
Aug-18-03 02:52 PM |
#76 |
-
In my district, even with no experience . . . |
donco6 |
Aug-18-03 10:28 PM |
#173 |
-
worse |
MassDem4Life |
Aug-19-03 12:40 PM |
#200 |
-
i hear you...even with an MA, in California |
noiretblu |
Aug-20-03 08:50 AM |
#226 |
-
Private or religious |
Ramsey |
Aug-18-03 02:16 PM |
#62 |
-
I Have A 2001 Toyota Solara |
DemocratSinceBirth |
Aug-18-03 12:03 PM |
#46 |
 -
best analogy I've heard |
ButterflyBlood |
Aug-18-03 02:11 PM |
#61 |
 -
what about those who don't have a car? |
noiretblu |
Aug-18-03 02:26 PM |
#67 |
-
The voucher argument misses the point |
jpgray |
Aug-18-03 02:01 PM |
#56 |
-
Not enough private schools anyway |
sandnsea |
Aug-18-03 02:07 PM |
#58 |
 -
Not tomorrow, but soon |
Muddleoftheroad |
Aug-18-03 02:10 PM |
#60 |
-
Educational Management Organizations |
noiretblu |
Aug-18-03 02:30 PM |
#69 |
 -
Again, then how do we solve things NOW |
Muddleoftheroad |
Aug-18-03 02:41 PM |
#71 |
-
i suggest a RADICAL approach |
noiretblu |
Aug-18-03 02:46 PM |
#73 |
-
Gee |
Nederland |
Aug-18-03 02:53 PM |
#77 |
-
that is exactly the problem with vouchers |
noiretblu |
Aug-18-03 02:57 PM |
#78 |
-
How do you figure? |
Nederland |
Aug-18-03 03:31 PM |
#85 |
-
bull...a thinly-veiled attempt to transfer public monies |
noiretblu |
Aug-18-03 03:36 PM |
#88 |
-
One Question |
Nederland |
Aug-18-03 03:37 PM |
#90 |
-
no kids, but i am becoming a teacher |
noiretblu |
Aug-18-03 03:47 PM |
#91 |
-
That Explains Much |
Nederland |
Aug-18-03 03:56 PM |
#98 |
-
Wanna bet his/her kids eventually end up in private school? |
recidivist |
Aug-18-03 04:11 PM |
#107 |
 -
no kids for me...i'll just try to help |
noiretblu |
Aug-18-03 05:03 PM |
#125 |
-
yeah...i'm obviously a horrible person |
noiretblu |
Aug-18-03 04:27 PM |
#115 |
-
No |
Nederland |
Aug-18-03 04:35 PM |
#117 |
-
there is choice...i am against funding diversion |
noiretblu |
Aug-18-03 04:54 PM |
#122 |
 -
The nation is responding |
Nederland |
Aug-18-03 05:08 PM |
#126 |
-
desperate people are easily manipulated |
noiretblu |
Aug-18-03 05:33 PM |
#134 |
-
Be Specific |
Nederland |
Aug-18-03 06:19 PM |
#149 |
-
management reform...to start |
noiretblu |
Aug-18-03 07:09 PM |
#154 |
-
School Boards |
Muddleoftheroad |
Aug-19-03 08:26 AM |
#182 |
-
no...parents, principals, teachers, and students |
noiretblu |
Aug-20-03 08:08 AM |
#219 |
-
thats a silly statement! |
darboy |
Aug-18-03 06:09 PM |
#143 |
-
Only for the rich? |
Nederland |
Aug-18-03 06:19 PM |
#148 |
 -
Rich people have many choices that the rest of us don't have. |
alcuno |
Aug-18-03 07:17 PM |
#155 |
-
You've got it exactly backwards. |
recidivist |
Aug-19-03 08:49 AM |
#189 |
-
thanks,darboy...you hear exactly what i'm saying |
noiretblu |
Aug-20-03 08:31 AM |
#224 |
-
The rest of the post |
sandnsea |
Aug-18-03 03:16 PM |
#79 |
-
and...is there ANY PROOF that vouchers will solve current problems? |
noiretblu |
Aug-18-03 03:28 PM |
#83 |
-
No |
Nederland |
Aug-18-03 03:36 PM |
#89 |
 -
so...fix the existing system! |
noiretblu |
Aug-18-03 03:48 PM |
#92 |
-
Most of the poor don't have the time to wait |
Muddleoftheroad |
Aug-18-03 03:51 PM |
#94 |
 -
"Vouchers provide a quicker solution." For whom? |
ulysses |
Aug-18-03 03:52 PM |
#95 |
  -
Yes |
Muddleoftheroad |
Aug-18-03 04:07 PM |
#102 |
 -
WHAT OPTIONS? |
ulysses |
Aug-18-03 04:22 PM |
#112 |
 -
The private sector |
Muddleoftheroad |
Aug-18-03 04:26 PM |
#114 |
 -
sorry, but no |
ulysses |
Aug-18-03 05:13 PM |
#127 |
 -
What if a teacher opened a private school for voucher kids |
Yupster |
Aug-18-03 05:51 PM |
#140 |
 -
sure. |
ulysses |
Aug-18-03 06:39 PM |
#152 |
 -
I believe there are many frustrated teachers out there |
Yupster |
Aug-18-03 08:36 PM |
#163 |
  -
Charter Schools |
sandnsea |
Aug-18-03 11:52 PM |
#180 |
 -
Mainstreaming, aka "one size fits all," is part of the problem. |
recidivist |
Aug-19-03 09:15 AM |
#192 |
 -
why WAIT?!?!?!?!?!??! |
noiretblu |
Aug-18-03 04:43 PM |
#118 |
-
Private schools are proven |
Muddleoftheroad |
Aug-18-03 04:49 PM |
#120 |
 -
are there enough private schools? NO. |
noiretblu |
Aug-18-03 04:59 PM |
#124 |
  -
Not at all |
Muddleoftheroad |
Aug-19-03 08:29 AM |
#183 |
 -
so...why not adopt that model in public schools? |
noiretblu |
Aug-20-03 08:13 AM |
#220 |
 -
Private schools ARE NOT proven |
sandnsea |
Aug-18-03 05:37 PM |
#136 |
  -
Why? |
Muddleoftheroad |
Aug-19-03 08:31 AM |
#184 |
 -
Private schools are NOT proven. |
alcuno |
Aug-18-03 07:35 PM |
#159 |
-
Failure |
Muddleoftheroad |
Aug-19-03 08:36 AM |
#185 |
-
Scene from the movie "Life of Brian" |
Yupster |
Aug-19-03 11:23 PM |
#210 |
-
Priorities are indeed the issue. |
recidivist |
Aug-18-03 05:16 PM |
#128 |
 -
Post #93 |
sandnsea |
Aug-18-03 06:12 PM |
#144 |
-
Wrong |
Nederland |
Aug-18-03 05:21 PM |
#129 |
-
other priorities |
ma4t |
Aug-19-03 12:14 PM |
#195 |
-
Question |
Nederland |
Aug-18-03 04:06 PM |
#101 |
-
How can there be proof when |
MassDem4Life |
Aug-19-03 11:05 PM |
#209 |
-
vouchers in Milwaukee... |
snyttri |
Aug-18-03 02:09 PM |
#59 |
-
I know lots of people that want vouchers |
VoteClark |
Aug-18-03 02:48 PM |
#74 |
-
a question for voucherites |
ulysses |
Aug-18-03 03:21 PM |
#80 |
 -
No |
Muddleoftheroad |
Aug-18-03 03:30 PM |
#84 |
  -
nice dodge. |
ulysses |
Aug-18-03 03:32 PM |
#86 |
  -
i like what you said |
noiretblu |
Aug-18-03 03:32 PM |
#87 |
  -
How are YOU going to choose a school? |
sandnsea |
Aug-18-03 03:49 PM |
#93 |
 -
As a parent, you pick the one you think is best |
Yupster |
Aug-18-03 08:43 PM |
#164 |
 -
Wow |
sandnsea |
Aug-18-03 10:16 PM |
#171 |
 -
Of course I'm a parent |
Yupster |
Aug-18-03 10:46 PM |
#175 |
  -
Teachers know how to evaluate schools |
sandnsea |
Aug-18-03 11:21 PM |
#179 |
 -
Typical |
Nederland |
Aug-19-03 12:44 PM |
#201 |
 -
And another thing |
Yupster |
Aug-18-03 10:58 PM |
#178 |
 -
And another thing |
sandnsea |
Aug-18-03 11:55 PM |
#181 |
 -
People already do this |
Muddleoftheroad |
Aug-19-03 08:40 AM |
#186 |
 -
Yes |
Nederland |
Aug-18-03 03:53 PM |
#96 |
-
Yes...or no... |
ulysses |
Aug-18-03 03:54 PM |
#97 |
 -
Question |
Nederland |
Aug-18-03 04:09 PM |
#104 |
-
Careful now. |
ulysses |
Aug-18-03 04:13 PM |
#108 |
-
What about learning? |
Muddleoftheroad |
Aug-18-03 04:15 PM |
#109 |
 -
In my ideal world |
ulysses |
Aug-18-03 04:19 PM |
#110 |
-
The very few are fine |
Muddleoftheroad |
Aug-18-03 04:21 PM |
#111 |
-
by "the very few" |
ulysses |
Aug-18-03 04:23 PM |
#113 |
-
Then that is a useless program |
Muddleoftheroad |
Aug-18-03 04:50 PM |
#121 |
-
do you really think |
ulysses |
Aug-18-03 06:32 PM |
#151 |
-
Private school costs |
Muddleoftheroad |
Aug-19-03 08:43 AM |
#187 |
-
Response |
Nederland |
Aug-18-03 04:33 PM |
#116 |
 -
because public money should, first and foremost, |
ulysses |
Aug-18-03 06:18 PM |
#147 |
-
Confused |
Nederland |
Aug-18-03 06:27 PM |
#150 |
-
that's because your analogy is flawed. |
ulysses |
Aug-18-03 06:47 PM |
#153 |
-
Socialism and collectivism are two different things. |
recidivist |
Aug-19-03 09:38 AM |
#193 |
-
Answer |
Nederland |
Aug-19-03 04:31 PM |
#207 |
-
"What would make you think otherwise?" |
ulysses |
Aug-20-03 03:49 AM |
#215 |
-
I just want |
Yupster |
Aug-19-03 11:32 PM |
#211 |
-
no one is saying you can't enroll your kid in a private school. |
ulysses |
Aug-20-03 03:51 AM |
#216 |
-
No it's not |
Muddleoftheroad |
Aug-20-03 08:01 AM |
#218 |
-
I say the issue of |
Yupster |
Aug-20-03 09:39 AM |
#229 |
-
College isn't required by law |
sandnsea |
Aug-18-03 04:07 PM |
#103 |
-
See post #104 (nt) |
Nederland |
Aug-18-03 04:09 PM |
#105 |
 -
For mandated education... |
sandnsea |
Aug-18-03 05:33 PM |
#133 |
-
Why |
Nederland |
Aug-18-03 06:13 PM |
#145 |
-
Kneejerk? |
sandnsea |
Aug-18-03 07:23 PM |
#157 |
-
And post #93 for you as well |
sandnsea |
Aug-18-03 07:26 PM |
#158 |
-
Almost as bad an idea |
Muddleoftheroad |
Aug-18-03 04:10 PM |
#106 |
-
See Post #93 |
sandnsea |
Aug-18-03 05:34 PM |
#135 |
-
Like all parents |
Muddleoftheroad |
Aug-19-03 08:48 AM |
#188 |
-
I agree with Lieberman on this |
dolstein |
Aug-18-03 04:47 PM |
#119 |
 -
Pilot Programs |
Muddleoftheroad |
Aug-19-03 08:50 AM |
#190 |
-
Vouchers are a Trojan Horse |
library_max |
Aug-18-03 04:59 PM |
#123 |
 -
excellent post...sums things up nicely |
noiretblu |
Aug-18-03 05:53 PM |
#141 |
 -
Excellent argument. |
alcuno |
Aug-18-03 07:22 PM |
#156 |
  -
School choice is an incorrect term |
flyingfish |
Aug-18-03 08:22 PM |
#161 |
   -
You must be wealthy |
Muddleoftheroad |
Aug-19-03 08:52 AM |
#191 |
  -
And if abortion was banned today, |
Yupster |
Aug-18-03 10:49 PM |
#176 |
 -
sure..."everyone" can afford to fly to france |
noiretblu |
Aug-20-03 08:19 AM |
#222 |
 -
ummm, thanks noire |
Yupster |
Aug-20-03 09:40 AM |
#230 |
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sorry yupster |
noiretblu |
Aug-20-03 01:41 PM |
#233 |
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Yes - no one sees the economies of scale. |
donco6 |
Aug-18-03 09:32 PM |
#168 |
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Well said, library-max |
GOPGoindown |
Aug-18-03 10:06 PM |
#170 |
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That's great but I'm not interested in idealistic goals until |
Blue_Chill |
Aug-18-03 10:50 PM |
#177 |
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More Parents Fail Their Kids Education than the Schools |
Crisco |
Aug-19-03 12:39 PM |
#199 |
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You make it sound |
Muddleoftheroad |
Aug-19-03 12:48 PM |
#202 |
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How Hard is It |
Crisco |
Aug-19-03 04:29 PM |
#206 |
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It would be a lot harder for us |
Yupster |
Aug-19-03 11:34 PM |
#212 |
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You make it sound |
Muddleoftheroad |
Aug-19-03 12:48 PM |
#203 |
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How do you fix the current system? |
library_max |
Aug-20-03 05:28 PM |
#234 |
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Strawman |
Nederland |
Aug-19-03 12:57 PM |
#204 |
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The Free Market? |
library_max |
Aug-20-03 05:36 PM |
#235 |
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Vouchers are a band-aid for the real problem |
U4ikLefty |
Aug-18-03 09:09 PM |
#165 |
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Mixed feelings.. |
Fescue4u |
Aug-19-03 04:21 PM |
#205 |
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To me it's a balance |
Yupster |
Aug-19-03 11:38 PM |
#213 |