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Reply #127: Wow! Very nicely done, with strokes of brilliance. [View All]

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govegan Donating Member (661 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-11-03 01:28 PM
Response to Reply #81
127. Wow! Very nicely done, with strokes of brilliance.
From the perspective of a technical person, your arguments are cogent and to the point.

As a fellow citizen, I find your concerns admirable, and your dismay totally understandable.

Despite a long technical background, I could never critique the M$ products and systems as precisely as you have done. I am one of those who has been fortunate enough to be able to avoid, for the most part, getting entangled with building systems that support the 800-pound gorilla.

I am not sure that I agree with your conclusion about the paper ballots as the only realistic alternative. However, your concerns are well placed and very valid indeed.





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  -Black Box Voting:Second Volley /Truth About Rob-Georgia/Thread 2 trumad  Jul-14-03 07:51 PM   #0 
  - Thanks. Was just going to do that. Here are some pullouts from  BevHarris   Jul-10-03 11:16 AM   #1 
  - kick  trumad   Jul-10-03 11:39 AM   #2 
  - Wes Craven? You mean the Nightmare on Elm Street guy?  monkeyboy   Jul-10-03 12:02 PM   #3 
  - Do you want a discussion?  Fredda Weinberg   Jul-10-03 12:07 PM   #4 
  - and they could have been...  deseo   Jul-10-03 12:19 PM   #5 
  - At that point? Why not?  Fredda Weinberg   Jul-10-03 12:50 PM   #8 
  - MS patches are *notorious* for creating new problems  Pobeka   Jul-10-03 06:20 PM   #58 
  - You've answered yourself ...  Fredda Weinberg   Jul-10-03 08:46 PM   #62 
  - Nice try  Pobeka   Jul-10-03 09:12 PM   #65 
     - The clocks weren't working  Fredda Weinberg   Jul-10-03 09:17 PM   #66 
        - Let me get this straight  Pobeka   Jul-10-03 09:25 PM   #67 
           - There's a third possible scenario  Fredda Weinberg   Jul-10-03 09:49 PM   #68 
              - I think there is something missing  jimmynochad   Jul-10-03 09:55 PM   #69 
              - Jimmynochad said it well  Pobeka   Jul-10-03 10:01 PM   #70 
  - This is very true  scottxyz   Jul-10-03 11:51 PM   #82 
  - I would buy that argument if there were official MS service packs ...  white_rider   Jul-10-03 11:41 PM   #78 
     - Look here ...  Fredda Weinberg   Jul-11-03 02:43 AM   #96 
        - No ... I need a CE OS service pack upgrade ...  white_rider   Jul-11-03 02:59 AM   #99 
  - not even Windows patches are allowed  elfling   Jul-10-03 01:47 PM   #17 
     - "After State Certification"  Fredda Weinberg   Jul-10-03 02:24 PM   #29 
        - You're conflating certification with L&A testing  Eloriel   Jul-10-03 05:42 PM   #54 
           - I was careful in my quotes  Fredda Weinberg   Jul-10-03 08:48 PM   #63 
              - There is a story ...  white_rider   Jul-10-03 11:44 PM   #79 
              - I understand MORE than what you posted  Eloriel   Jul-11-03 12:34 AM   #90 
                 - So you found 'em ... did you understand 'em?  Fredda Weinberg   Jul-11-03 02:48 AM   #97 
                    - I understood them far better than you  Eloriel   Jul-11-03 10:28 AM   #116 
                       - There are 3 levels of testing  Fredda Weinberg   Jul-11-03 10:47 AM   #119 
                          - Uh, You wanna try that one again?  Eloriel   Jul-11-03 01:01 PM   #125 
                             - Uh, *you* want to try that once again  Fredda Weinberg   Jul-11-03 04:10 PM   #131 
                                - What about immediately after the election?  white_rider   Jul-12-03 12:33 AM   #149 
                                - Hey Fredda, why don't you try a little politeness?  w4rma   Jul-14-03 01:27 PM   #163 
  - You got a link?  white_rider   Jul-10-03 11:34 PM   #76 
     - See reply #96  Fredda Weinberg   Jul-11-03 02:50 AM   #98 
        - Recursive ...  white_rider   Jul-12-03 12:37 AM   #150 
           - LOL!  ParanoidPat   Jul-12-03 12:46 AM   #151 
  - events  SDent   Jul-10-03 12:19 PM   #6 
  - Kick  trumad   Jul-10-03 12:39 PM   #7 
  - where did this come from?  Fredda Weinberg   Jul-10-03 12:52 PM   #9 
  - here's the link  SDent   Jul-10-03 12:56 PM   #10 
     - I enjoyed this line  Fredda Weinberg   Jul-10-03 01:06 PM   #11 
        - or this  SDent   Jul-10-03 01:09 PM   #13 
  - Talk about redemption! LOL!  ParanoidPat   Jul-10-03 01:35 PM   #14 
  - Yes, let's have a conversation about Rob-Georgia  DEMActivist   Jul-10-03 01:08 PM   #12 
  - any estimate on when we get our board back?  Cocoa   Jul-10-03 01:47 PM   #16 
     - I made a mistake  SDent   Jul-10-03 01:50 PM   #18 
     - maybe it's just me, I don't know  Cocoa   Jul-10-03 01:56 PM   #19 
        - ?  dmr   Jul-10-03 02:06 PM   #23 
     - We?  ibegurpard   Jul-10-03 01:56 PM   #20 
     - awareness has been raised  Cocoa   Jul-10-03 02:10 PM   #25 
        - STAY OUT OF IT!  ibegurpard   Jul-10-03 02:14 PM   #27 
           - you guys use a lot of emoticons  Cocoa   Jul-10-03 02:19 PM   #28 
     - Our board????????????????????????????????????????  ParanoidPat   Jul-10-03 02:00 PM   #21 
     - Yeah, I can't see how counting votes would be of any interest...  Junkdrawer   Jul-10-03 02:05 PM   #22 
     - it's of interest, for sure  Cocoa   Jul-10-03 02:13 PM   #26 
        - And that proves the point - it's what people are interested in AND..  Junkdrawer   Jul-10-03 02:27 PM   #31 
        - I know, let's talk about Sex!  hunter   Jul-10-03 02:28 PM   #32 
        - huh? sex?  angka   Jul-10-03 02:35 PM   #34 
           - nope.  angka   Jul-10-03 02:36 PM   #35 
           - The Hulk's Wang will be the next California Governer!  hunter   Jul-10-03 02:45 PM   #37 
              - CA voting systems list is at  jimmynochad   Jul-10-03 02:56 PM   #40 
              - Now you've done it!  hunter   Jul-10-03 03:07 PM   #42 
              - Just in time for the California ...  white_rider   Jul-11-03 01:22 AM   #94 
                 - Don't I know it!  hunter   Jul-11-03 10:36 AM   #117 
        - Perhaps when people want to view something they should be able to choose..  ParanoidPat   Jul-10-03 02:30 PM   #33 
     - ?  white_rider   Jul-10-03 11:48 PM   #80 
     - BTW: Are we having a bandwidth issue?  white_rider   Jul-11-03 09:12 PM   #137 
        - About 45 minutes ago ...  rhite5   Jul-11-03 09:25 PM   #138 
  - Positive contributions...  hunter   Jul-10-03 01:37 PM   #15 
  - Why Diebold sucks  Nederland   Jul-10-03 02:06 PM   #24 
  - i agree that much of this discussion is entirely  SDent   Jul-10-03 02:25 PM   #30 
  - Irrelevancy is an important part of fact finding...  trumad   Jul-10-03 02:47 PM   #38 
     - Dissent is what made America strong ...  white_rider   Jul-10-03 11:52 PM   #83 
     - Yes I agree about Fredda  scottxyz   Jul-10-03 11:58 PM   #85 
  - Bev's first article raises the spector that it may go beyond Diebold...  Junkdrawer   Jul-10-03 02:44 PM   #36 
  - not verifiable with paper trail?  SDent   Jul-10-03 03:22 PM   #46 
     - Imagine that a precinct used paper ballots...  Junkdrawer   Jul-10-03 03:42 PM   #49 
     - i agree that  SDent   Jul-10-03 03:52 PM   #50 
     - Unless the election is within 1/2 of 1 percent...  Junkdrawer   Jul-10-03 04:03 PM   #51 
     - Cool!  Zan_of_Texas   Jul-10-03 10:06 PM   #71 
     - Is there some sort of a system audit trail?  white_rider   Jul-10-03 11:54 PM   #84 
  - ANY computer voting machine would suck  NewYorkerfromMass   Jul-10-03 02:48 PM   #39 
  - Hey insiders, about the stocks  PATRICK   Jul-10-03 03:00 PM   #41 
  - Diebold is making hay when the sun shines!  white_rider   Jul-11-03 12:02 AM   #86 
     - No! acting on suspicians that Diebold's stock price will suffer  rhite5   Jul-11-03 07:47 PM   #135 
  - scotty wrote:  grasswire   Jul-10-03 03:09 PM   #43 
  - Vote Receipts  Nederland   Jul-10-03 03:19 PM   #45 
     - that's true except  SDent   Jul-10-03 03:29 PM   #47 
        - there is a difference with a paper ballot vs receipt  jimmynochad   Jul-11-03 10:35 PM   #143 
  - Red Herring  Nederland   Jul-10-03 03:16 PM   #44 
  - We can make transactions in banking accurate because  sybylla   Jul-10-03 05:21 PM   #53 
  - Well said! n/t  Eloriel   Jul-10-03 05:50 PM   #55 
  - I agree  Nederland   Jul-10-03 05:59 PM   #57 
  - Please see post #49, but also...  Junkdrawer   Jul-10-03 06:21 PM   #59 
  - I wasn't exactly disagreeing with you, only expanding on what it will take  sybylla   Jul-10-03 06:29 PM   #60 
     - Yeah, nothing's perfect, but.....  Zan_of_Texas   Jul-10-03 10:26 PM   #72 
     - Not just local frauds now.  bumbler   Jul-10-03 10:49 PM   #73 
     - Never suggested a computer alone could  Nederland   Jul-11-03 10:23 AM   #114 
  - So is the secret ballot incompatible with fraud-proof voting?  starroute   Jul-10-03 11:20 PM   #75 
     - Think "fraud resistant" voting...  hunter   Jul-10-03 11:41 PM   #77 
  - There are many internal controls in the banking processes  SharonAnn   Jul-10-03 08:56 PM   #64 
     - SharonAnn makes sense  scottxyz   Jul-11-03 12:54 AM   #92 
        - Exactly  Nederland   Jul-11-03 10:26 AM   #115 
  - that's the point  SDent   Jul-10-03 03:34 PM   #48 
  - why isn't fuckedcompany covering this?  chadm   Jul-10-03 05:58 PM   #56 
  - Kick  Junkdrawer   Jul-10-03 05:19 PM   #52 
  - Will Your Vote Count?  Bushfire   Jul-10-03 08:33 PM   #61 
  - Who is the most popular official in Geogia?  burr   Jul-10-03 11:04 PM   #74 
  - Followup from Access programmer ScottXYZ  scottxyz   Jul-10-03 11:49 PM   #81 
  - I would rate your post ...  white_rider   Jul-11-03 12:16 AM   #87 
  - damn.  angka   Jul-11-03 12:18 AM   #88 
  - gotta slam this home!  angka   Jul-11-03 12:24 AM   #89 
  - Sha-ZAMM! I am giving you an ovation for that post, Scottxyz!  BevHarris   Jul-11-03 12:49 AM   #91 
  - Spock? Is that you?  ParanoidPat   Jul-11-03 12:59 AM   #93 
  - You have a nasty tone, but let's try anyway ...  Fredda Weinberg   Jul-11-03 03:33 AM   #100 
  - Further rebuttals to Fredda  scottxyz   Jul-11-03 04:42 AM   #102 
  - this controversey can be resolved by a simple call to Microsoft.  cap   Jul-11-03 09:11 AM   #106 
  - I'd like to weigh in here.  republicansareevil   Jul-11-03 09:58 AM   #110 
     - There's more than one kind of security  Fredda Weinberg   Jul-11-03 10:09 AM   #111 
        - Then do you agree that the system is not secure enough?  republicansareevil   Jul-11-03 10:15 AM   #113 
        - My focus has been on the paper trail  Fredda Weinberg   Jul-11-03 10:41 AM   #118 
           - Honestly, I'm not trying to distract you.  republicansareevil   Jul-11-03 10:56 AM   #121 
              - Yes, I want the rules changed  Fredda Weinberg   Jul-11-03 04:19 PM   #132 
        - More evidence  Eloriel   Jul-11-03 10:50 AM   #120 
  - "You have a nasty tone, but let's try anyway"  trumad   Jul-11-03 08:23 AM   #104 
  - Thanks for your contributions, clearly you are taking considerable...  Junkdrawer   Jul-11-03 08:34 AM   #105 
  - Fredda for the sake of your own career...  cap   Jul-11-03 09:14 AM   #107 
  - Do I know SQL Server ...  Fredda Weinberg   Jul-11-03 10:13 AM   #112 
     - Is there a CE service pack for SQL Server?  white_rider   Jul-12-03 01:46 AM   #155 
        - Go to Microsoft and find out  Fredda Weinberg   Jul-12-03 11:49 AM   #161 
  - I am developing the suspicion  FlaGranny   Jul-11-03 09:31 AM   #109 
  - Missing the Point  Nederland   Jul-11-03 12:03 PM   #123 
  - I'm impressed....  trumad   Jul-11-03 12:28 PM   #124 
  - There are two lines of discussion...  Junkdrawer   Jul-11-03 01:25 PM   #126 
     - Response  Nederland   Jul-11-03 02:17 PM   #128 
     - Response to Response...  Junkdrawer   Jul-11-03 02:37 PM   #129 
        - Flaws  Nederland   Jul-11-03 03:59 PM   #130 
           - Perhaps we're arguing semantics...  Junkdrawer   Jul-11-03 05:00 PM   #133 
     - possibility of past fraud  angka   Jul-11-03 06:35 PM   #134 
        - angka  Eloriel   Jul-11-03 08:54 PM   #136 
           - i agree.  angka   Jul-11-03 09:54 PM   #139 
              - that wasn't "bev's work"  Fredda Weinberg   Jul-11-03 09:58 PM   #140 
                 - Now Now Fredda... Who's tone sucks now?  trumad   Jul-11-03 10:03 PM   #141 
                 - Why? That's exactly what this is ...  Fredda Weinberg   Jul-11-03 10:26 PM   #142 
                    - Anyone else think that Fredda is Nellie Olson...  preciousdove   Jul-11-03 10:36 PM   #144 
                 - good god  angka   Jul-12-03 01:00 AM   #153 
                 - This doesn't seem like a publicity stunt  scottxyz   Jul-12-03 02:00 AM   #156 
                    - Because what you call very bad  Fredda Weinberg   Jul-12-03 11:48 AM   #160 
  - Wow! Very nicely done, with strokes of brilliance.  govegan   Jul-11-03 01:28 PM   #127 
  - Recap  scottxyz   Jul-11-03 10:41 PM   #145 
  - Great thoughts...one nitpick  jimmynochad   Jul-11-03 10:53 PM   #146 
  - I would also draw your attention to Post #49 et al.  Junkdrawer   Jul-12-03 09:56 AM   #159 
  - follow up to Scottxyz  SDent   Jul-14-03 12:46 PM   #162 
  - Why would competent, legitametly motivated  Pobeka   Jul-11-03 01:33 AM   #95 
  - I wish somebody would have left that MS shit lay gathering dust  nolabels   Jul-11-03 04:39 AM   #101 
     - AM kick!  leftchick   Jul-11-03 06:52 AM   #103 
        - Needs another Kick  Oggy   Jul-11-03 09:20 AM   #108 
  - the broken pretzel  PATRICK   Jul-11-03 10:59 AM   #122 
  - The Bev story was picked up by CALVOTER.ORG  jimmynochad   Jul-11-03 11:08 PM   #147 
  - Kim Alexander is a GEM!  DEMActivist   Jul-12-03 12:00 AM   #148 
     - Be careful what you call her....  ParanoidPat   Jul-12-03 12:57 AM   #152 
        - ROFL, didn't think of that  DEMActivist   Jul-12-03 02:17 AM   #158 
  - How to track the media's coverage of this  scottxyz   Jul-12-03 01:35 AM   #154 
  - An interesting, old quote supporting paper ballots  scottxyz   Jul-12-03 02:13 AM   #157 
 

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