htuttle
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Fri Jun-04-04 10:58 AM
Response to Original message |
| 2. But I thought we were an Anarcho-Syndicalist Collective? |
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As a cooperative-worker for over a decade, I prefer something close to what you've defined as Participatory Economics.
In reality, however, the whole switching jobs thing doesn't work that well. Cross-training is good and important, but not everyone is going to be suited to do every job, obviously. It's also important to allow people to build expertise in certain areas. I've discovered that all you need to do to get people to do the 'grunt' work is pay them well for it.
Democratically setting pay rates DOES work well, however, as does the worker council/peer review system.
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| -What economic system is closest to your ideal |
MiddleMen |
Jun-04-04 10:48 AM |
#0 |
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Participatory Economics |
bryant69 |
Jun-04-04 10:57 AM |
#1 |
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OK. Thanks. |
MiddleMen |
Jun-04-04 10:58 AM |
#3 |
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Everyone is a manager and a worker? |
theboss |
Jun-04-04 10:59 AM |
#4 |
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Good points to both. |
MiddleMen |
Jun-04-04 11:10 AM |
#6 |
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drawing schematics is now management? |
Alerter_ |
Jun-04-04 11:20 AM |
#10 |
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While it's obvious that such a "pure" arrangement wouldn't work |
IrateCitizen |
Jun-04-04 11:57 AM |
#23 |
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Your wrestling coach |
Michael Costello |
Jun-05-04 07:45 AM |
#71 |
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So why do you get higher pay? |
LeahMira |
Jun-05-04 08:00 AM |
#74 |
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It's already been practiced and works |
IrateCitizen |
Jun-04-04 11:16 AM |
#7 |
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I guess it depends on hwo you apply the question |
bryant69 |
Jun-04-04 11:38 AM |
#16 |
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Please tell me how such a system would inhibit individualism |
IrateCitizen |
Jun-04-04 11:48 AM |
#20 |
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But this assumes people are all the same, which they are not |
jpgray |
Jun-04-04 12:48 PM |
#33 |
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Your argument is a strawman |
IrateCitizen |
Jun-04-04 12:59 PM |
#36 |
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Work of this kind requires many, many hours of careful study |
jpgray |
Jun-04-04 01:12 PM |
#38 |
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It's funny that you bring up the issue of free time |
IrateCitizen |
Jun-04-04 01:24 PM |
#40 |
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I didn't know I was supposed to carefully work on all your examples |
jpgray |
Jun-04-04 01:37 PM |
#44 |
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Where do you get this "committee determining future" from??? |
IrateCitizen |
Jun-04-04 01:44 PM |
#46 |
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If Einstein's parents did not have the money, how is Al to be educated? |
jpgray |
Jun-04-04 01:47 PM |
#48 |
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Wow. You're really stretching now. |
IrateCitizen |
Jun-04-04 01:54 PM |
#51 |
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I've advocated nothing, I'm only asking you questions |
jpgray |
Jun-04-04 02:00 PM |
#55 |
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Considering Einstein's intellect... |
IrateCitizen |
Jun-04-04 02:10 PM |
#57 |
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Okay, but damned if I don't love my Utopian metaphors |
jpgray |
Jun-04-04 02:35 PM |
#61 |
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What was Newton's incentive? |
Michael Costello |
Jun-05-04 08:12 AM |
#75 |
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Too individualistic? Not a problem. |
htuttle |
Jun-04-04 11:55 AM |
#22 |
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How does capitalism help your individual autonomy? |
Michael Costello |
Jun-05-04 07:49 AM |
#72 |
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But I thought we were an Anarcho-Syndicalist Collective? |
htuttle |
Jun-04-04 10:58 AM |
#2 |
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I have to go with regulated capitalism. |
MissMarple |
Jun-04-04 11:05 AM |
#5 |
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Please give your definition of socialism |
IrateCitizen |
Jun-04-04 11:19 AM |
#8 |
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yeah, look at Europe, Canada, NZ |
Alerter_ |
Jun-04-04 11:22 AM |
#11 |
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Europe and Canada aren't socialist |
rastignac5 |
Jun-04-04 11:25 AM |
#12 |
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well, the US isn't capitalist then |
Alerter_ |
Jun-04-04 11:26 AM |
#13 |
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You seem to be confused about what socialism is |
rastignac5 |
Jun-04-04 11:32 AM |
#14 |
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fortunately, real economies don't fit into neat little categories |
Alerter_ |
Jun-04-04 11:39 AM |
#17 |
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Wrong. |
IrateCitizen |
Jun-04-04 11:44 AM |
#18 |
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Shall we harp about how the U.S. isn't really capitalist? |
cprise |
Jun-04-04 11:46 AM |
#19 |
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The US government also owns the means of production in many industries. |
rastignac5 |
Jun-04-04 12:03 PM |
#25 |
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You are the one who seems to be confused what socialism is |
Michael Costello |
Jun-05-04 07:56 AM |
#73 |
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Choice #4 isn't an economic system- it's a business model |
rastignac5 |
Jun-04-04 11:20 AM |
#9 |
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That is not correct. |
MiddleMen |
Jun-04-04 12:00 PM |
#24 |
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It's only an economic system if it becomes the norm |
rastignac5 |
Jun-04-04 12:16 PM |
#27 |
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By passing laws through my democratically elected |
MiddleMen |
Jun-04-04 12:22 PM |
#29 |
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certainly it's an economic system |
Michael Costello |
Jun-05-04 07:34 AM |
#70 |
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All of the above |
cprise |
Jun-04-04 11:36 AM |
#15 |
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Your additional option essentially describes Japan |
IrateCitizen |
Jun-04-04 11:53 AM |
#21 |
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Cool. |
MiddleMen |
Jun-04-04 12:15 PM |
#26 |
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I like that about the Japanese |
JCCyC |
Jun-04-04 01:38 PM |
#45 |
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A combination of #2 and #4. |
Redleg |
Jun-04-04 12:17 PM |
#28 |
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Number four would turn into a nightmare |
jpgray |
Jun-04-04 12:22 PM |
#30 |
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It certainly hasn't yet in the Mondragon cooperatives... |
IrateCitizen |
Jun-04-04 12:40 PM |
#31 |
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Too small, and contained within another system |
jpgray |
Jun-04-04 12:55 PM |
#35 |
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What we're talking about here is an evolutionary process |
IrateCitizen |
Jun-04-04 01:10 PM |
#37 |
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Even pastoral nomads have people of greater and lesser ambition |
jpgray |
Jun-04-04 01:22 PM |
#39 |
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Liu Bang rose to his station through the military |
IrateCitizen |
Jun-04-04 01:34 PM |
#43 |
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Wel, if you're asking me to predict the future of human nature |
jpgray |
Jun-04-04 01:53 PM |
#50 |
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Where did I ever ask you to predict the future? |
IrateCitizen |
Jun-04-04 01:59 PM |
#54 |
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Much too early to tell, but I would guess it has not |
jpgray |
Jun-04-04 02:11 PM |
#58 |
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Of course there are risks involved |
IrateCitizen |
Jun-04-04 02:21 PM |
#60 |
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Yes, culture is a factor |
jpgray |
Jun-04-04 02:46 PM |
#62 |
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I just read an interesting theory on this |
IrateCitizen |
Jun-04-04 03:06 PM |
#63 |
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I think that is more or less an accurate take |
jpgray |
Jun-04-04 03:25 PM |
#64 |
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And there's more risk of that under #4 in what way? |
htuttle |
Jun-04-04 12:42 PM |
#32 |
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No particular way, but #4 could just turn into to a hereditary oligarchy. |
jpgray |
Jun-04-04 12:51 PM |
#34 |
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That is discussed somewhat at the web site. |
MiddleMen |
Jun-04-04 01:30 PM |
#41 |
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Yes--and I can't answer that theory |
jpgray |
Jun-04-04 01:55 PM |
#53 |
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If you believe that humans aren't capable of rejecting these tendencies... |
htuttle |
Jun-04-04 01:32 PM |
#42 |
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Well, look at what we have done with our democracy |
jpgray |
Jun-04-04 01:44 PM |
#47 |
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That was the point I was trying to make |
htuttle |
Jun-04-04 01:52 PM |
#49 |
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I'd take your point one step further, htuttle... |
IrateCitizen |
Jun-04-04 02:04 PM |
#56 |
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no police, or at least rotating responsibility |
Michael Costello |
Jun-05-04 07:25 AM |
#69 |
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My ideal - anarchy. |
Feanorcurufinwe |
Jun-04-04 01:54 PM |
#52 |
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2nd Choice: Capitalism with Controls |
Leprechan29 |
Jun-04-04 02:17 PM |
#59 |
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A collective commonwealth! |
mrmcd |
Jun-04-04 03:46 PM |
#65 |
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I was totally surprised |
MiddleMen |
Jun-04-04 05:07 PM |
#66 |
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Great thread, MiddleMen. n/t |
JudiLyn |
Jun-05-04 06:54 AM |
#67 |
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#2 |
mmonk |
Jun-05-04 07:11 AM |
#68 |