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Reply #39: okay, so that's it ... [View All]

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Lisa Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-20-04 07:36 PM
Response to Reply #37
39. okay, so that's it ...
I was only considering the syllogistic logic viewpoint (too much exposure to Logical Positivists?). And as you say, the problems with just relying on logic to get from premises to conclusions have become pretty evident. Both deduction and induction have problems, that's for sure.

I don't know enough (and am simply not smart enough) to frame many of these issues. Look at all the different meanings for "logic" we've seen in this subthread alone! It's a wonder humans can communicate at all.

I like the "empty claim" point you made, but maybe one reason why he considered all those appeals to emotion/fear/etc. in the first place might be the frequency with which they turn up! (Which in itself would be kind of an "ad populum" argument, if that's why he wanted to class them as actual fallacies.) But that's just my speculation. In any case I think he's referring to "informal logic", because I could actually read his work -- I tried the rigorously formal stuff some time back, and couldn't follow it at all!
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  -Jean-Luc Godard chides Moore sundog  May-20-04 08:55 AM   #0 
  - Sounds like Jealousy..  KissMyAsscroft   May-20-04 08:56 AM   #1 
  - Godard jealous of Michael Moore?  markses   May-20-04 08:59 AM   #3 
     - Yes. He's jealous. Even legendary auteurs get it sometimes.  Screaming Lord Byron   May-20-04 09:03 AM   #6 
     - You've got a point  sundog   May-20-04 09:10 AM   #9 
     - He's jealous because outside of film buffs  RummyTheDummy   May-20-04 08:28 PM   #43 
        - You may believe that  markses   May-20-04 08:50 PM   #49 
           - I stand by my statement  RummyTheDummy   May-20-04 08:55 PM   #50 
  - Godard's film is being screened "outside of the competition"  Bridget Burke   May-20-04 08:57 AM   #2 
  - I know I'll get flamed by the Moore cheerleaders....  vi5   May-20-04 08:59 AM   #4 
  - I agree  markses   May-20-04 09:10 AM   #10 
  - "rhetorical acts with particular effects"  Bridget Burke   May-20-04 09:34 AM   #17 
  - Moore's smart enough to know he's using rhetorical techniques ...  Lisa   May-20-04 06:05 PM   #27 
     - Appealing to emotion  markses   May-20-04 06:32 PM   #31 
        - how about if the argument is meant to be based on logic?  Lisa   May-20-04 07:07 PM   #32 
           - Well, since we were discussing  markses   May-20-04 07:23 PM   #37 
              - okay, so that's it ...  Lisa   May-20-04 07:36 PM   #39 
  - you also have a point  sundog   May-20-04 09:30 AM   #14 
  - Allegory is wasted upon American movie-goers  gottaB   May-20-04 07:36 PM   #38 
  - Totally agree. & to think Godard would be jealous of Moore is to not know  Tinoire   May-20-04 09:31 AM   #15 
  - Wasn't he on Star Trek--The Next Generation?  RummyTheDummy   May-20-04 08:31 PM   #44 
  - That's what I saw in Mike Malloy  DS1   May-20-04 09:38 AM   #18 
  - Good points, vi5  alarcoeg   May-20-04 06:30 PM   #30 
  - Unfortunately, filmmakers like Moore have more impact than Godard  Snellius   May-20-04 08:18 PM   #41 
  - Ahh yes  RummyTheDummy   May-20-04 08:44 PM   #47 
  - Hmmmmm  RummyTheDummy   May-20-04 08:41 PM   #46 
  - I wish he would elaborate  Cocoa   May-20-04 09:01 AM   #5 
  - Probably by throwing red meat to the RW base.  RUMMYisFROSTED   May-20-04 09:04 AM   #7 
     - that's very abstract  Cocoa   May-20-04 09:12 AM   #11 
        - Well, it is Godard. (abstract)  RUMMYisFROSTED   May-20-04 09:34 AM   #16 
  - I don't think so  Corgigal   May-20-04 09:04 AM   #8 
  - Okay here is the part where Fox has to quote someone named Jean-Luc  underpants   May-20-04 09:13 AM   #12 
  - yes  sundog   May-20-04 09:23 AM   #13 
     - They will refer to him as  tishaLA   May-20-04 09:39 AM   #19 
        - i'm getting  sundog   May-20-04 09:40 AM   #21 
        - or Jon Luc Picard - of the Enterprise  SpiralHawk   May-20-04 07:15 PM   #35 
  - on other hand, by slamming Moore, Godard has done what?  DS1   May-20-04 09:40 AM   #20 
  - i don't think it's calculated  sundog   May-20-04 09:45 AM   #24 
     - but catch what? As underpants noted, he's French, so he can't be right  DS1   May-20-04 09:52 AM   #26 
  - Watch Bowling for Columbine - Watch Weekend  soleft   May-20-04 09:41 AM   #22 
  - Then watch 'Sympathy for the Devil'  Screaming Lord Byron   May-20-04 09:47 AM   #25 
     - That was a stinker.  RandomKoolzip   May-20-04 06:22 PM   #29 
  - this has to be filtered through Godard's theoretical perspective  56kid   May-20-04 09:41 AM   #23 
  - What the fuck????  Egalitarian Zetetic   May-20-04 06:10 PM   #28 
  - "although he admitted that he had not seen it"  Selwynn   May-20-04 07:08 PM   #33 
  - Godard needs to see the movie first. Just because Moore is a fat American  AP   May-20-04 07:10 PM   #34 
  - The reviews I have read note that Moore does not do as much  demgrrrll   May-20-04 07:22 PM   #36 
  - Moore doesn't appear on screen as much. But, the whole thing is  AP   May-20-04 11:18 PM   #51 
     - If he runs a scene without comment then it is up to the viewer to decide  demgrrrll   May-20-04 11:39 PM   #54 
        - Even if he narrates a scene, it's still upt to the viewer what opinion...  AP   May-20-04 11:55 PM   #55 
  - But Godard also participated in  tishaLA   May-20-04 08:37 PM   #45 
     - I'm just guessing, but I'm just so sure that he's saying that you can't...  AP   May-20-04 11:27 PM   #52 
  - As An Art Critic, I Am Appalled That He Hasn't Seen The Film  cryingshame   May-20-04 07:55 PM   #40 
  - The typical Heathers in this thread are dissing Moore  trumad   May-20-04 08:26 PM   #42 
  - It's possible that he tried to make that clear, but that the press...  AP   May-20-04 11:29 PM   #53 
  - Godard is a walking, talking example of why the French should never  John_H   May-20-04 08:50 PM   #48 
  - "Just spell my name right. Eisner hates me too. I'll be here all week."JLG  TacticalPeak   May-21-04 12:25 AM   #56 

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