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todwest Donating Member (53 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-12-04 10:55 AM
Response to Original message
130. Moral Equivalency
I agree with you, Raven, that there is no way to justify the murder of Berg or Pearl.

I'll go you one better, though: All murder is evil. It is wrong to murder helpless civilians -- on both sides -- it is wrong to use a nation's young men and women as pawns in an illegal -- yes, illegal -- war, and it's wrong to label a culture as "barbaric" simply because they have values which we find abhorrent or cannot understand, especially as many of our values are equally abhorrent to them.

I encourage you to look up the term "cultural relativism." Right after you get done looking up "moral equivalency."
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  -I've lost a home here. Raven  May-12-04 12:09 AM   #0 
  - Lighten up will you  legin   May-12-04 12:13 AM   #1 
  - this post of yours is wrong on several levels, and I don't mean  rumguy   May-12-04 12:20 AM   #12 
  - just had victory snatched  seabeyond   May-12-04 12:26 AM   #20 
  - I understand what you are saying, it's a good point. n/t  legin   May-12-04 12:30 AM   #26 
  - My god.  LabMonkey   May-12-04 02:15 AM   #102 
  - "A Victory Snatched"????  outinforce   May-12-04 10:41 AM   #124 
  - I'll miss you soooooo verrry much!  flaminbats   May-12-04 12:13 AM   #2 
  - If I remember correctly  Eureka   May-12-04 12:18 AM   #7 
  - Did I imply that Raven got us into Iraq?  flaminbats   May-12-04 12:43 AM   #40 
     - No, you thanked her for it  Eureka   May-12-04 12:55 AM   #50 
        - Am I on trial?  flaminbats   May-12-04 01:55 AM   #99 
  - Dumbest. Post. Ever.  WilliamPitt   May-12-04 12:23 AM   #15 
  - And the competition for that title is very stiff tonight. n/t  QC   May-12-04 12:26 AM   #21 
  - You prove my point.  Raven   May-12-04 12:25 AM   #18 
     - Argumentum ex silentio..  flaminbats   May-12-04 12:49 AM   #44 
  - And there is no defense for the actions...  DarkPhenyx   May-12-04 12:15 AM   #3 
  - this was AQ - they don't need "reasons" to slaughter Americans  rumguy   May-12-04 12:22 AM   #14 
     - you're point being?  DarkPhenyx   May-12-04 12:27 AM   #22 
     - 1. You don't know who it was, 2. They have reasons if they ever need 'em  0rganism   May-12-04 03:27 AM   #111 
  - 'sub-humans'  bpilgrim   May-12-04 12:15 AM   #4 
  - Well can you imagine the minds of those that did this?  rumguy   May-12-04 12:24 AM   #16 
  - Murder, yes is murder and torture, alas, torture  JCMach1   May-12-04 12:16 AM   #5 
  - DING! there are questions to be asked..  meow mix   May-12-04 12:20 AM   #11 
  - I can't say I blame you. it is indeed a sick day... for all Humanity  opihimoimoi   May-12-04 12:18 AM   #6 
  - Raven, it's all wrong, all of it....  jdolsen   May-12-04 12:19 AM   #8 
  - Damn! This is a sad night.  calimary   May-12-04 12:30 AM   #24 
  - Boy! Do I love you!  Raven   May-12-04 12:37 AM   #36 
     - Thanks, Raven. Hugs!  calimary   May-12-04 11:43 AM   #133 
  - I'm with you  SEpatriot   May-12-04 12:34 AM   #33 
  - Dude, If you considered a message board your "home"  TheWizardOfMudd   May-12-04 12:19 AM   #9 
  - Can't blame you  markses   May-12-04 12:19 AM   #10 
  - Pretty sure of yourself aren't ya  JimWar   May-12-04 12:22 AM   #13 
  - People deal with stress in different ways.  Colin Ex   May-12-04 12:24 AM   #17 
  - "maybe I'll join a truth squad here" wtf is that anyways??  meow mix   May-12-04 12:25 AM   #19 
  - Hah! Meow, I'm not totally sure what I meant by that!  Raven   May-12-04 12:34 AM   #32 
  - The truth squad meets on alternate thursdays in the DU Lounge  0rganism   May-12-04 03:31 AM   #112 
  - people come in all shades of morality  quinnox   May-12-04 12:27 AM   #23 
  - Deleted message  Name removed   May-12-04 12:30 AM   #25 
  - Clean up your language and  Raven   May-12-04 12:40 AM   #39 
  - Sure sounds to me like you're succumbing ...  the_real_38   May-12-04 12:47 AM   #42 
  - Sweetie, no, YOU get out.  Raven   May-12-04 12:51 AM   #46 
  - I've been here quite a while, ....  the_real_38   May-12-04 12:55 AM   #53 
     - I wonder about that too - this man's death means so much more,  redqueen   May-12-04 10:52 AM   #129 
  - Yeah, dude, you're hardcore.  Colin Ex   May-12-04 12:54 AM   #48 
  - Deleted message  Name removed   May-12-04 12:57 AM   #55 
     - Then take a breath and step back, man.  Colin Ex   May-12-04 12:59 AM   #57 
        - Dude, I'm just having fun...  the_real_38   May-12-04 01:01 AM   #60 
  - Make her  WilliamPitt   May-12-04 12:55 AM   #51 
     - Deleted message  Name removed   May-12-04 12:58 AM   #56 
     - No, you were talking to my mother  WilliamPitt   May-12-04 01:01 AM   # 
     - She can prove her "cred" right now...  the_real_38   May-12-04 01:08 AM   #66 
     - The day she has to prove anything to you  WilliamPitt   May-12-04 01:12 AM   #69 
     - Asking a question like that  JimWar   May-12-04 01:27 AM   #85 
     - Nice call...  the_real_38   May-12-04 01:29 AM   #89 
     - Deleted message  Name removed   May-13-04 01:21 PM   #140 
     - No mouthing off???  Raven   May-12-04 01:15 AM   #71 
     - Oh ******* the ******** and then ****** with the ****** and the ******  WilliamPitt   May-12-04 01:17 AM   #73 
     - What a lame rejoinder...  the_real_38   May-12-04 01:24 AM   #82 
        - *********  WilliamPitt   May-12-04 01:25 AM   #84 
     - Well, let's not be so rough on him.  QC   May-12-04 01:19 AM   #77 
     - *snarf*  WilliamPitt   May-12-04 01:21 AM   #79 
     - What's the matter with the ****'s?  the_real_38   May-12-04 01:22 AM   #81 
        - I am so glad you had fun with this...  Raven   May-12-04 01:50 AM   #98 
     - She doesn't have to prove  liberalhistorian   May-13-04 01:10 PM   #137 
     - Hahaha (genuine laughter)  JimWar   May-12-04 01:11 AM   #68 
     - And you need to just shut the hell up.  Media_Lies_Daily   May-12-04 01:06 AM   #65 
     - Okay, guys, whip them out  Colin Ex   May-12-04 01:01 AM   #58 
  - Civil?  devilgrrl   May-12-04 12:50 AM   #45 
  - Weren't you leaving?  Cronus   May-12-04 01:19 AM   #78 
  - No, my friend, it appears  liberalhistorian   May-13-04 01:05 PM   #134 
  - Defending Berg's Murder is a DU trait ? ....  Trajan   May-12-04 12:31 AM   #27 
  - So just because the murder of Iraqi detainees wasn't videotaped . . .  gratuitous   May-12-04 12:31 AM   #28 
  - Compare barbarities???  Raven   May-12-04 12:46 AM   #41 
     - Right you are  gratuitous   May-12-04 01:17 AM   #74 
     - Since Mr. Pitt claims to be your son.....  RapidCreek   May-12-04 07:45 AM   #121 
  - Having just witnessed US military men & women  Lex   May-12-04 12:31 AM   #29 
  - A voice of sanity, Well said Lex...  LibertyorDeath   May-12-04 04:48 AM   #114 
  - there is no need to call them sub human  turiya   May-12-04 12:32 AM   #30 
  - Any person who can..  ColdnGrey   May-12-04 12:55 AM   #52 
     - Hear! Hear!  Nostradammit   May-12-04 01:29 AM   #90 
        - I'm glad you got exactly what i was saying  ColdnGrey   May-12-04 03:07 AM   #109 
  - Don't worry for I only saw the video, possibly just out of I confess,  Valerie5555   May-12-04 12:34 AM   #31 
  - I agree there is no defense  leftofthedial   May-12-04 12:35 AM   #34 
  - It makes me wonder, but still  UNIXnutt   May-12-04 02:24 AM   #103 
  - There is an older Mark Fiore  TiredTexan   May-12-04 12:35 AM   #35 
  - I don't know how we stop it...  Raven   May-12-04 01:01 AM   #61 
     - Here's my essay on scandal fatigue............  TiredTexan   May-12-04 01:17 AM   #75 
  - It is my understanding  kgfnally   May-12-04 12:40 AM   #37 
  - ## Support Democratic Underground! ##  DU GrovelBot   May-12-04 12:40 AM   #38 
  - The Grovelbot has no Sense of Irony, I see (n/t)  0rganism   May-12-04 03:15 AM   #110 
  - There isn't any defense of any murder on either side  The_Casual_Observer   May-12-04 12:48 AM   #43 
  - Shhhhhh you'll spoil all the fun!  Cronus   May-12-04 01:21 AM   #80 
  - There's been so much cyber shell shock over the events of  Cleita   May-12-04 12:52 AM   #47 
  - was thinking the along similar lines  salin   May-12-04 01:01 AM   #59 
  - Hmm! Sounds like somebody watched a nasty snuff video!  maggrwaggr   May-12-04 12:54 AM   #49 
  - Go help HEyHEY garden or something...  hunter   May-12-04 12:56 AM   #54 
  - Is that the same as saying "go to your room"?  Raven   May-12-04 01:10 AM   #67 
     - No but maybe you should be  Eureka   May-12-04 01:14 AM   #70 
     - Drama Queen, only seventeen, call me the Drama Queen  WilliamPitt   May-12-04 01:16 AM   #72 
        - Hey, in the lead up to Eurovision too  Eureka   May-12-04 01:19 AM   #76 
        - You can't do that  tkmorris   May-12-04 03:02 AM   #107 
     - Argghhhhh!  hunter   May-12-04 01:25 AM   #83 
        - Thanks for your permission!  Raven   May-12-04 01:31 AM   #91 
  - The problem with the video is that we don't really know who filmed it...  Media_Lies_Daily   May-12-04 01:05 AM   #62 
  - where to start the response to this inane thread  Djinn   May-12-04 01:05 AM   #63 
  - Well, when someone starts a response with the word "inane"  Raven   May-12-04 01:27 AM   #86 
  - Because of course YOUR original post  Djinn   May-12-04 01:46 AM   #96 
  - Thank you Djinn for a truthful, rational...  nomaco-10   May-12-04 01:35 AM   #92 
  - I refuse to watch it, or open the threads .... I have a 26 yr old son  SoCalDem   May-12-04 01:06 AM   #64 
  - I feel the same way. I have what is now a foggy misty memory of  demgrrrll   May-12-04 01:28 AM   #87 
  - More barbaric than we are, huh?  wtmusic   May-12-04 01:29 AM   #88 
  - The "fuss" about Berg's murder??  Raven   May-12-04 01:39 AM   #94 
     - So was Berg's murder more awful because you saw it?  wtmusic   May-12-04 01:49 AM   #97 
     - good question but no answer  JimWar   May-12-04 03:50 AM   #113 
     - Another war story for you...  LeahMira   May-13-04 02:13 PM   #142 
  - Wonder Who's Working the 2004 GOP Convention?  LastChance2004   May-12-04 01:35 AM   #93 
  - Deleted message  Name removed   May-12-04 01:45 AM   #95 
  - You're kinda right  Delano   May-12-04 02:01 AM   #100 
  - a thoughtful response  wtmusic   May-12-04 02:06 AM   #101 
  - Yes, Rove is counting on us ...  stickdog   May-12-04 02:38 AM   #104 
  - There is no defense for EITHER their OR our atrocity.  Selwynn   May-12-04 02:38 AM   #105 
  - I may not buy all of the conspiracy theories yet, but one thing I DO  DemEx_pat   May-12-04 02:59 AM   #106 
  - God forbid we ever show emotion  Ksec   May-12-04 03:05 AM   #108 
  - sub-humans, that's a nazi term  JNelson6563   May-12-04 04:59 AM   #115 
  - I have seen no post on DU ...  Kickin_Donkey   May-12-04 05:06 AM   #116 
  - What's the need for a new thread on this topic?  Bridget Burke   May-12-04 05:24 AM   #117 
  - Sub-humans??  Vladimir   May-12-04 06:10 AM   #118 
  - Raven, we've always respected your opinion.  revcarol   May-12-04 06:48 AM   #119 
  - Perhaps your problem is that you consider this a 'home'?  Q   May-12-04 06:59 AM   #120 
  - ohhh toto, i don't think we're in kansas anymore  ElsewheresDaughter   May-12-04 10:46 AM   #127 
  - On last night's truthout overview, Will Pitt said  ramblin_dave   May-12-04 08:13 AM   #122 
  - nothing, absolutely nothing that comes from this administration...  jdolsen   May-12-04 10:38 AM   #123 
  - I think it's counter-productive to get upset at the views of others.  Screaming Lord Byron   May-12-04 10:44 AM   #125 
  - Don't know about the joking and snickering  redqueen   May-12-04 10:45 AM   #126 
  - Yet another that watched the video and couldn't take it.  cat_girl25   May-12-04 10:52 AM   #128 
  - Moral Equivalency  todwest   May-12-04 10:55 AM   #130 
  - If the beheading is barbaric, and it is  bloom   May-12-04 11:31 AM   #131 
  - I can't think of the right word for what you describe  indigo32   May-13-04 01:07 PM   #135 
  - don't let some ninnies get you down, Raven  Skittles   May-12-04 11:36 AM   #132 
  - Deleted message  Name removed   May-13-04 01:10 PM   #136 
  - I'm glad you're not leaving.  rbnyc   May-13-04 01:15 PM   #138 
  - I wish you'd just go ahead and leave.  DrWeird   May-13-04 01:16 PM   #139 
  - How is that racist? WTF?  JohnLocke   May-14-04 02:55 PM   #143 
  - Is anyone DEFENDING them?  LeahMira   May-13-04 01:24 PM   #141 
 

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