| 152. That's OK, but don't ask the People to pay for a military force to |
|
defend your assets in Africa.
If your company wishes to leave the US, go for it, but as long as you use the People's power to protect your international assets, then you must pay the piper. That might very well include maintaining production facilities in the US.
The economic notion of free competion is in practice, just a way for a few to accumulate massive wealth through a dysfunctional market.
Today, the "one half per centers" own over 42% of America's financial wealth and if they are successful in bribing congress to eliminate estate taxes, dividend taxes, corporate taxes, and capital-gains taxes, then it's just a mattter of time before they own nearly all of our financial wealth. At some point the working masses will realize that and who knows what will happen.
|
| -Do people on DU really think $88,000 annual is rich? |
Ripley |
Aug-10-03 12:08 PM |
#0 |
 -
Hi Ripley |
oneighty |
Aug-10-03 12:18 PM |
#1 |
 -
Hi 180! |
Ripley |
Aug-10-03 12:33 PM |
#7 |
 -
32k a year |
Isome |
Aug-10-03 12:36 PM |
#12 |
| -
that sounds reasonable. I've read the average college graduate makes $40K |
Iris |
Aug-10-03 03:21 PM |
#77 |
| -
Depends |
Muddleoftheroad |
Aug-10-03 01:01 PM |
#28 |
| -
Precisely. $90K in Chicago is nothing when 2BR condos are $300K |
kysrsoze |
Aug-10-03 09:11 PM |
#111 |
| -
yeah. In Seattle $88k is.... |
Heddi |
Aug-11-03 11:47 AM |
#157 |
| -
That's right Heddy, $88K in Seattle... |
fortyfeetunder |
Aug-11-03 11:43 PM |
#202 |
| -
In NYC, anything below six figures is low income (relatively speaking)... |
smirkymonkey |
Aug-11-03 12:58 PM |
#167 |
| -
living in South Carolina, Alabama etc |
private_ryan |
Aug-11-03 11:57 PM |
#203 |
| -
Everyone in America thinks they are upperclass. |
Feanorcurufinwe |
Aug-10-03 12:18 PM |
#2 |
| -
most think they are middle class |
pop goes the weasel |
Aug-10-03 12:40 PM |
# |
| -
rich for one income...middle |
mjb4 |
Aug-10-03 12:21 PM |
#3 |
| -
It's well off |
DinoBoy |
Aug-10-03 12:22 PM |
#4 |
| -
It's a good living depending on how many that amount supports |
texasblueeyes |
Aug-10-03 03:08 PM |
#74 |
| -
Well certain people do |
Nicholas_J |
Aug-10-03 12:29 PM |
#5 |
| -
The American Dream |
stopbush |
Aug-10-03 12:32 PM |
#6 |
| -
I don't believe that. |
Ripley |
Aug-10-03 12:36 PM |
#13 |
| -
Thanks for clarifying that with numbers. |
Ripley |
Aug-10-03 12:35 PM |
#10 |
| -
Sometime yes and sometimes no |
silverlib |
Aug-10-03 05:34 PM |
#92 |
| -
Nice clarification. |
poskonig |
Aug-11-03 10:21 AM |
#143 |
| -
Considering my income is a third of that, |
Clete |
Aug-10-03 12:33 PM |
#8 |
| -
if someone making $88,000 is |
tpub |
Aug-10-03 12:35 PM |
#9 |
| -
$88,000 per year is not rich. |
The Lone Liberal |
Aug-10-03 12:36 PM |
#11 |
| -
It certainly would be at MY house |
JitterbugPerfume |
Aug-10-03 12:40 PM |
#14 |
| -
Now look at the vast differences in post responses here. |
Ripley |
Aug-10-03 12:40 PM |
#15 |
| -
You ask if that were rich |
The Lone Liberal |
Aug-10-03 12:48 PM |
#19 |
| -
3% is low? |
stopbush |
Aug-10-03 01:06 PM |
#31 |
| -
For two income families it may be a little low |
Brian Sweat |
Aug-11-03 12:15 PM |
#162 |
| -
The 3% figure is low, but may be correct |
jafap |
Aug-10-03 06:03 PM |
#96 |
| -
It's poor to the rich. It's rich to me. |
aquart |
Aug-10-03 12:42 PM |
#16 |
| -
You could try and goolge to see what the average |
MUAD_DIB |
Aug-10-03 12:45 PM |
#17 |
| -
Actually, I am trying to find out right now |
Clete |
Aug-10-03 01:02 PM |
#29 |
| -
Jody posted the same links I have below.n/t |
Clete |
Aug-10-03 02:01 PM |
#57 |
| -
Everyone here keeps making a basic mistake... |
Feminist_man |
Aug-10-03 12:45 PM |
#18 |
| -
Here's one for you |
stopbush |
Aug-10-03 01:24 PM |
#46 |
| -
You nailed it! |
Feminist_man |
Aug-10-03 01:54 PM |
#54 |
| -
Tracing assets is very complex |
Muddleoftheroad |
Aug-10-03 01:55 PM |
#55 |
| -
I agree, but we seem to make do with housing.. |
Feminist_man |
Aug-10-03 02:08 PM |
#59 |
| -
Other assets |
Muddleoftheroad |
Aug-10-03 02:14 PM |
#62 |
| -
To an extent, but we make do... |
Feminist_man |
Aug-10-03 03:01 PM |
#71 |
| -
Not exactly. |
shimmergal |
Aug-11-03 12:11 PM |
#161 |
| -
A tax on assets takes no account of ability to pay |
starroute |
Aug-10-03 02:37 PM |
#68 |
| -
Read post 56 below..... |
Feminist_man |
Aug-10-03 02:48 PM |
#70 |
| -
I'll take the $40k |
Fescue4u |
Aug-10-03 08:04 PM |
#107 |
| -
Squarely Middle Class. |
Fescue4u |
Aug-10-03 08:08 PM |
#108 |
| -
Wealth would be fine |
SyracuseDemocrat |
Aug-10-03 03:45 PM |
#82 |
| -
John Edwards is talking about this!! |
tjdee |
Aug-11-03 11:55 AM |
#159 |
| -
Stats from PBS site |
Isome |
Aug-10-03 12:54 PM |
#20 |
| -
you seem to have a mistaken impression |
Cheswick |
Aug-10-03 12:55 PM |
#21 |
| -
What the hell is your problem? |
Ripley |
Aug-11-03 07:34 AM |
#130 |
| -
The word "rich" is a relative term |
greekspeak |
Aug-10-03 12:56 PM |
#22 |
| -
It is well off |
Nikia |
Aug-10-03 12:56 PM |
#23 |
| -
I'm not far from that figure |
FatbackSlim |
Aug-10-03 12:58 PM |
#24 |
| -
Go to Salary.com |
Superfly |
Aug-10-03 12:58 PM |
#25 |
| -
Actually, run the "Salary Timer" |
Superfly |
Aug-10-03 02:07 PM |
#58 |
| -
Geeez, that's about what I make!!! |
MindPilot |
Aug-10-03 12:58 PM |
#26 |
| -
Avatar |
FatbackSlim |
Aug-10-03 12:59 PM |
#27 |
| -
You're right but my house is going up $50k a year |
MindPilot |
Aug-10-03 01:09 PM |
#32 |
| -
Nice! |
FatbackSlim |
Aug-10-03 01:17 PM |
#41 |
| -
Does anyone else here see a problem with this post? |
Feminist_man |
Aug-10-03 01:28 PM |
#48 |
| -
No... |
FatbackSlim |
Aug-10-03 01:36 PM |
#49 |
| -
How??? |
Feminist_man |
Aug-10-03 01:46 PM |
#51 |
| -
Because... |
FatbackSlim |
Aug-10-03 01:48 PM |
#52 |
| -
Actually, I am suggesting taxing assets... |
Feminist_man |
Aug-10-03 02:00 PM |
#56 |
| -
I agree it's unfair... |
FatbackSlim |
Aug-10-03 02:10 PM |
#60 |
| -
Consumption taxes |
Muddleoftheroad |
Aug-10-03 02:15 PM |
#64 |
| -
To an extent |
FatbackSlim |
Aug-10-03 02:16 PM |
#65 |
| -
Assets |
Muddleoftheroad |
Aug-10-03 01:48 PM |
#53 |
| -
It's a bit more complicated than that |
MindPilot |
Aug-10-03 02:13 PM |
#61 |
| -
It's not that complicated.... |
Feminist_man |
Aug-10-03 02:43 PM |
#69 |
| -
Are you still calling me a schmuck? |
jafap |
Aug-10-03 06:26 PM |
#98 |
| -
So what about my parents? |
Yupster |
Aug-10-03 03:40 PM |
#80 |
| -
As I mentioned before, deductions would protect |
Feminist_man |
Aug-10-03 05:13 PM |
#89 |
| -
who are you calling a schmuck? |
jafap |
Aug-10-03 06:22 PM |
#97 |
| -
Yeah, but.... |
kysrsoze |
Aug-10-03 09:14 PM |
#112 |
| -
I hate to rain on your parade, |
Brian Sweat |
Aug-11-03 12:23 PM |
#165 |
| -
The payroll tax cut off is *always* calculated as an individual |
w4rma |
Aug-10-03 01:04 PM |
#30 |
| -
Context helps here |
dsc |
Aug-10-03 01:10 PM |
#33 |
| -
Payroll tax |
FatbackSlim |
Aug-10-03 01:17 PM |
#40 |
| -
That would work |
dsc |
Aug-10-03 03:03 PM |
#72 |
| -
The proposal is to remove SS cap on Benefits as Wage cap's removed |
papau |
Aug-10-03 03:30 PM |
#78 |
| -
If I were making that much |
HootieMcBoob |
Aug-10-03 01:11 PM |
#34 |
| -
Census figures |
kenzee13 |
Aug-10-03 01:12 PM |
#35 |
| -
Manhattan (NYC) skewing of top brackets |
NewYorkerfromMass |
Aug-11-03 10:50 AM |
#150 |
| -
I suppose that housing coast have something to do with it |
Nikia |
Aug-10-03 01:14 PM |
#36 |
| -
By comparison |
Muddleoftheroad |
Aug-10-03 01:15 PM |
#39 |
| -
Yes that's a very big part of it. |
MindPilot |
Aug-10-03 01:20 PM |
#42 |
| -
Cheap housing! |
midnight armadillo |
Aug-11-03 06:12 AM |
#126 |
| -
88,000.00 , I believe |
SoCalDem |
Aug-10-03 01:14 PM |
#37 |
| -
Please browse the latest census data on income at |
jody |
Aug-10-03 01:15 PM |
#38 |
| -
Depends upon your Fixed Costs... |
Monte Carlo |
Aug-10-03 01:21 PM |
#43 |
| -
For a single person with no dependents? |
ibegurpard |
Aug-10-03 01:24 PM |
#44 |
| -
I only made $8800 last year |
Philosophy |
Aug-10-03 01:24 PM |
#45 |
| -
I make just under that...... |
vi5 |
Aug-10-03 01:25 PM |
#47 |
| -
That depends... |
InkAddict |
Aug-10-03 01:38 PM |
#50 |
| -
For a family of 4, if BOTH parents earn 88K+, yes |
tameszu |
Aug-10-03 02:14 PM |
#63 |
| -
$88K/year seems like alot of money to me. |
TheBigGuy |
Aug-10-03 02:20 PM |
#66 |
| -
And it depends on |
InkAddict |
Aug-10-03 02:26 PM |
#67 |
| -
This is around what my dad makes each year... |
StrongBad |
Aug-10-03 03:06 PM |
#73 |
| -
No. Where'd you get that silly idea? |
JanMichael |
Aug-10-03 03:10 PM |
#75 |
| -
I agree - rich is the top 1% = $700k income,, few million assets |
papau |
Aug-10-03 03:39 PM |
#79 |
| -
Actually, |
SyracuseDemocrat |
Aug-10-03 03:52 PM |
#83 |
| -
You should live as a poor person |
Terwilliger |
Aug-10-03 05:16 PM |
#90 |
| -
richer is top 0.1% and 0.01% |
rman |
Aug-11-03 06:49 AM |
#128 |
| -
88K is not rich |
jiacinto |
Aug-10-03 03:12 PM |
#76 |
| -
That would not be rich |
Ramsey |
Aug-10-03 03:42 PM |
#81 |
| -
with my income in the high four figures, hell, yes! |
amazona |
Aug-10-03 04:25 PM |
#84 |
| -
depends where they are living |
JohnKleeb |
Aug-10-03 04:27 PM |
#85 |
| -
Of course an 88K income doesn't make you truly rich but |
DemBones DemBones |
Aug-10-03 04:33 PM |
#86 |
| -
Depends |
Undemcided |
Aug-10-03 05:05 PM |
#87 |
| -
LOL...unDEMcided |
Terwilliger |
Aug-10-03 09:46 PM |
#117 |
| -
YES |
Terwilliger |
Aug-10-03 05:06 PM |
#88 |
| -
Richer than 30,000 |
Liberal_Guerilla |
Aug-10-03 05:22 PM |
#91 |
| -
$88,000 puts you in the top 20% |
jafap |
Aug-10-03 05:40 PM |
#93 |
| -
it totally depends on |
leftofthedial |
Aug-10-03 05:52 PM |
#94 |
| -
Re |
seg4527 |
Aug-10-03 05:54 PM |
#95 |
| -
Your question focuses solely on income whereas "financial wealth" |
jody |
Aug-10-03 07:03 PM |
#100 |
| -
Well put |
psychopomp |
Aug-11-03 01:09 AM |
#122 |
| -
Understand, but in pursuit of still more profits, they approve the export |
jody |
Aug-11-03 10:05 AM |
#138 |
| -
Exporting jobs |
Muddleoftheroad |
Aug-11-03 10:07 AM |
#140 |
| -
"their obligation to do it."? That sounds good but unfettered competition |
jody |
Aug-11-03 10:28 AM |
#144 |
| -
Another word for unfettered is free |
Muddleoftheroad |
Aug-11-03 10:36 AM |
#145 |
| -
That's OK, but don't ask the People to pay for a military force to |
jody |
Aug-11-03 11:09 AM |
#152 |
| -
If my company |
Muddleoftheroad |
Aug-11-03 12:27 PM |
#166 |
| -
That's your opinion, but SCOTUS has ruled that government is |
jody |
Aug-11-03 01:07 PM |
#168 |
| -
Nevertheless |
Muddleoftheroad |
Aug-11-03 01:27 PM |
#171 |
| -
Nevertheless, govenment is not required to prevent an attack against |
jody |
Aug-11-03 01:34 PM |
#174 |
| -
No free ride |
Muddleoftheroad |
Aug-11-03 02:07 PM |
#176 |
| -
Why do you ignore the facts that multinational corporations do move |
jody |
Aug-11-03 02:54 PM |
#179 |
| -
Of course they do |
Muddleoftheroad |
Aug-11-03 03:02 PM |
#180 |
| -
You assert that corporations have the same rights as citizens. |
jody |
Aug-11-03 03:15 PM |
#182 |
| -
As usual |
Muddleoftheroad |
Aug-11-03 04:55 PM |
#188 |
| -
We don't need to actually dissolve corporations, just remind them that |
jody |
Aug-11-03 05:28 PM |
#189 |
| -
Sorry to interrupt, but |
Ripley |
Aug-11-03 07:21 PM |
#191 |
| -
I understand, a number of people believe that the single most necessary |
jody |
Aug-11-03 07:58 PM |
#193 |
| -
You are on a good roll my friend... |
Ripley |
Aug-11-03 08:08 PM |
#194 |
| -
Corporations |
Muddleoftheroad |
Aug-11-03 11:15 PM |
#201 |
| -
Ken Lay of Enron loves the position you occupy. For people like |
jody |
Aug-12-03 11:47 AM |
#212 |
| -
Of course |
Muddleoftheroad |
Aug-13-03 08:06 AM |
#215 |
| -
You worked |
Muddleoftheroad |
Aug-11-03 11:11 PM |
#200 |
| -
that's lower middleclass...middleclass 80k to 199k |
ElsewheresDaughter |
Aug-10-03 06:31 PM |
#99 |
| -
So what about people who make under $80,000? |
Nikia |
Aug-10-03 07:44 PM |
#102 |
| -
IRS income statistics. |
snippy |
Aug-10-03 07:20 PM |
#101 |
| -
Those figures are misleading on the surface. Here's why... |
kysrsoze |
Aug-10-03 09:24 PM |
#115 |
| -
Very true. Every year the IRS reports the number of returns with AGI over |
snippy |
Aug-11-03 07:51 AM |
#133 |
| -
$88k isn't rich, and you are absolutely right. |
gulliver |
Aug-10-03 07:57 PM |
#103 |
| -
Thanks for understanding. |
Ripley |
Aug-11-03 07:54 AM |
#134 |
| -
I think that Clark was absolutely right |
jafap |
Aug-12-03 12:37 AM |
#205 |
| -
$88K is enough to pay your bills |
Fescue4u |
Aug-10-03 07:59 PM |
#104 |
| -
Fun/horrifying--Salary Calculator |
Logansquare |
Aug-10-03 08:00 PM |
#105 |
| -
If you live out "west". it may be impressive |
molly |
Aug-10-03 08:04 PM |
#106 |
| -
$88k is not a lot out "west", if you are talking about the coast |
Democat |
Aug-10-03 11:39 PM |
#119 |
| -
Definitely not the coast |
molly |
Aug-11-03 08:16 AM |
#136 |
| -
Rich is always "more than I make" no matter what I make. |
Hamlette |
Aug-10-03 08:12 PM |
#109 |
| -
Not even close to rich - $88K is a nice, middle-class income |
DisgustedTX |
Aug-10-03 08:12 PM |
#110 |
| -
Middle class-comfortable |
inthecorneroverhere |
Aug-10-03 09:18 PM |
#113 |
| -
El Paso TX, mean income is $14,000 a yr. i worked for Boeing here, their |
sam sarrha |
Aug-10-03 09:22 PM |
#114 |
| -
4 states have median family incomes 80K+ |
carolinayellowdog |
Aug-10-03 09:31 PM |
#116 |
| -
Depends on the circumstances surrounding how the $88K is |
brensgrrl |
Aug-10-03 09:50 PM |
#118 |
| -
nice analysis |
jafap |
Aug-11-03 04:23 AM |
#123 |
| -
When I had finally had it with the Corp grind in 1997 |
FormerOstrich |
Aug-11-03 12:01 AM |
#120 |
| -
I have made slightly more than .... |
Trajan |
Aug-11-03 12:11 AM |
#121 |
| -
I have made slightly less than |
jafap |
Aug-11-03 05:45 AM |
#125 |
| -
I Wish |
REP |
Aug-11-03 04:37 AM |
#124 |
| -
That is a lot of money to make per year... |
Skidmore |
Aug-11-03 06:24 AM |
#127 |
| -
Most really wealthy people don't really earn money! |
Hubert Flottz |
Aug-11-03 06:57 AM |
#129 |
| -
No, I don't. |
xequals |
Aug-11-03 07:37 AM |
#131 |
| -
Well, Ripley, how do YOU measure up? |
BiggJawn |
Aug-11-03 07:43 AM |
#132 |
| -
I had an emergency yesterday, so I left this thread |
Ripley |
Aug-11-03 08:07 AM |
#135 |
| -
Hot topic, isn't it? |
BiggJawn |
Aug-11-03 09:54 AM |
#137 |
| -
I wasn't referring to you. |
Ripley |
Aug-11-03 10:06 AM |
#139 |
| -
Ripley, I ain't madatchu! Peace, friend! |
BiggJawn |
Aug-11-03 01:20 PM |
#169 |
| -
Okely Dokely. |
Ripley |
Aug-11-03 01:28 PM |
#173 |
| -
No |
ProfessorGAC |
Aug-11-03 10:12 AM |
#141 |
| -
Just income, what about "wealth", etc? |
poskonig |
Aug-11-03 10:18 AM |
#142 |
| -
$88,000/12 = $7,333.33/mo |
salmonhorse |
Aug-11-03 10:40 AM |
#146 |
| -
Before taxes |
Muddleoftheroad |
Aug-11-03 10:42 AM |
#147 |
| -
After taxes ... $932.72 per week......edited |
SoCalDem |
Aug-11-03 10:46 AM |
#148 |
| -
Thanks! |
Muddleoftheroad |
Aug-11-03 10:48 AM |
#149 |
| -
Should 88k earners get a bix tax cut? |
nn2004 |
Aug-11-03 11:07 AM |
#151 |
| -
No |
JVS |
Aug-11-03 11:44 AM |
#156 |
| -
Debt |
CWebster |
Aug-11-03 11:11 AM |
#153 |
| -
National stats as of 2000 place 88k in top quintile of households |
carolinayellowdog |
Aug-11-03 11:38 AM |
#154 |
| -
It is relatively well off if that is earned by one person in the family |
JVS |
Aug-11-03 11:43 AM |
#155 |
| -
I don't think $88K is rich but... |
ikojo |
Aug-11-03 11:53 AM |
#158 |
| -
I posted a poll in the Economic Issues forum |
T Roosevelt |
Aug-11-03 11:56 AM |
#160 |
| -
I think it is more than enough for anyone |
0007 |
Aug-11-03 12:15 PM |
#163 |
| -
if you live in Massachusetts and Make $88,000 you are middle class |
Braden |
Aug-11-03 12:16 PM |
#164 |
| -
if you live in Indiana w/that income, you advise the Governor... |
BiggJawn |
Aug-11-03 01:28 PM |
#172 |
| -
Hey, you're catching on... |
Ripley |
Aug-11-03 01:44 PM |
#175 |
| -
No. Well off starts at 100k. |
bif |
Aug-11-03 01:25 PM |
#170 |
| -
Context is everything. $88K/yr. isn't rich on the East or West Coast... |
rezmutt |
Aug-11-03 02:09 PM |
#177 |
| -
Not in San Francisco... |
Oracle |
Aug-11-03 02:18 PM |
#178 |
| -
If I made $45 an hour I'd feel like a king... |
killbotfactory |
Aug-11-03 03:05 PM |
#181 |
| -
it's not "struggling" in my book |
ulysses |
Aug-11-03 03:19 PM |
#183 |
| -
Okay everybody, let's give a hand to jody!!!!!!!!!!!! |
Ripley |
Aug-11-03 03:38 PM |
#184 |
| -
Hands off |
Muddleoftheroad |
Aug-11-03 04:51 PM |
#187 |
| -
First of all, I am not a tie-dyed anti-globalist. |
Ripley |
Aug-11-03 05:55 PM |
#190 |
| -
I love America |
Muddleoftheroad |
Aug-11-03 11:10 PM |
#199 |
| -
Agreed. Jody is a big plus to DU (n/t) |
Aaron |
Aug-12-03 12:43 AM |
#206 |
| -
Nobody 'Feels' Rich |
LuminousX |
Aug-11-03 03:44 PM |
#185 |
| -
oooh you sound so...uh...logical |
Ripley |
Aug-11-03 03:54 PM |
#186 |
| -
Thinking more about this thread |
Nikia |
Aug-11-03 07:24 PM |
#192 |
| -
I'll second that. Those who have been blessed with wealth have an |
jody |
Aug-11-03 08:11 PM |
#195 |
| -
There is just too much baaaaaaing around here... |
Ripley |
Aug-11-03 08:22 PM |
#196 |
| -
AWOL's records were obtained under the FOI act and are at |
jody |
Aug-11-03 08:39 PM |
#197 |
| -
Thanks for the links. |
Ripley |
Aug-11-03 08:48 PM |
#198 |
| -
I do taxes for a living and I see that people who |
WCGreen |
Aug-12-03 12:05 AM |
#204 |
| -
I've been told you don't have real fuck you money |
Wonder |
Aug-12-03 12:44 AM |
#207 |
| -
It depends where you live... |
tedthebear |
Aug-12-03 01:53 AM |
#208 |
| -
My word, |
juajen |
Aug-12-03 02:18 AM |
#209 |
| -
My wife and I made a combined $48k last year. |
dawgman |
Aug-12-03 03:07 AM |
#210 |
| -
All of these tax schemes are way too complicated |
Regice |
Aug-12-03 03:41 AM |
#211 |
| -
No. Even twice that is not 'rich'. It is simply "well off" |
quilp |
Aug-12-03 11:51 AM |
#213 |
| -
FOR ME, IT IS DAMN RICH, BOTH IN MONEY AND ATTITUDE, AND |
Pocho |
Aug-13-03 08:02 AM |
#214 |
| -
Someone with an 88K income might buy a boat... |
JHB |
Aug-13-03 08:24 AM |
#216 |
| -
Has anyone considered AGE? |
corporalclegg9 |
Aug-13-03 08:26 AM |
#217 |
| -
Teachers ARE over paid afterall!! |
Catonsville1 |
Aug-13-03 08:29 AM |
#218 |
| -
Teachers overpaid? |
cat_girl25 |
Aug-13-03 09:03 AM |
#219 |
| -
If $88K is Rich, then two teachers combined are rich |
Catonsville1 |
Aug-13-03 09:16 AM |
#220 |
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