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Reply #80: I'm still looking for the answer to your question but in the meantime .... [View All]

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hedda_foil Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-10-03 02:57 PM
Response to Reply #20
80. I'm still looking for the answer to your question but in the meantime ....
Somewhere in my files is an excellent response to your questions, but I haven't been able to find it (though I'll keep looking). Here's what I recall, however. Grossman is, a former head of the Democratic National Committee, which means he's a heavy hitter in Democratic circles. (Not the DLC -- the DNC.) That's his biggest credential. He worked in foreign policy in the first (much more liberal than the 2nd) Clinton admin.

He was briefly appointed to the AIPAC presidency after the then-current president was involved in some kind of scandal. Apparently he was tapped because he was Mr. Clean. However, his (Grossman's)association with Israel has been in connection with a liberal, peace-and civil rights oriented group. I'm quite sure of this because when I first learned of it, before I committed to Dean, I looked Grossman up to see just what his position has been and who he had worked for. And I went to the website of the organization itself to see just what it stood for.

Dean isn't an Israeli Hawk like Lieberman and * cabal by any stretch of the imagination.

Tamara Baker of American Politics Journal did a very good job on many of the Israel/AIPAC questions in their mailbag on July 11.

http://www.americanpolitics.com/Letters.html

<snip>

Yeah, Dean's dealt with AIPAC, the American Israel Public Affairs Committee, and he has AIPAC members who support him, just like virtually every other US elected official of prominence. But Dean isn't afraid to tell AIPAC when he disagrees with them on deal-breaking issues like invading Iraq, even if it means that he has to brave a harsh reception from them:

The liberal Dean, who was ferried about the Aipac parley
by a high-profile supporter, former Aipac president
Steven Grossman, drew a good crowd there, even if his
anti-war stance was generally unpopular with the hawkish
group. He defended it forcefully, telling the Forward
that "Iran is more dangerous to Israel than Iraq is...
I don't think you have to be pro-war or pro-unilateral
intervention to be pro-Israel."

Not exactly the behavior of an AIPAC tool, eh? And the AIPACers in attendance gave Dean a coolish reception, nowhere near the love-bombing they reserved for Joe Lieberman. (That's OK: Dean, whose favorite novel is Ken Kesey's *Sometimes a Great Notion*, has never been afraid to talk to people who disagree with him on fundamental issues. Preaching solely to the converted isn't his style.)

But when Dean talked to a more liberal group of Jewish leaders and activists, he was greeted far more warmly:

At the Reform gathering, however, Dean's trademark cheeky,
shoot-from-the-hip manner electrified the crowd, which
heartily applauded his platform to make health insurance a
right for all Americans. "We have had enough in this
country of blaming government for what goes wrong," he
said. "Let's lift up government and not be afraid to be
Democrats!"

Leaving the gathering, Dean practically had to beat back a
number of young people who eagerly volunteered for his
campaign. "It would be an honor to work for you," gushed
one youth, a leader of the Reform movement's National
Federation of Temple Youth.

<snip>

Hopefully, you guys are aware that the vast majority of Jews are liberals and far more likely to be consistently antiwar (and particularly anti THIS war) than most Americans ... and even most Democrats.
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  -For the 600th time -- about Dean Eloriel  Aug-10-03 12:03 PM   #0 
  - Thank you El. I have just about given up on their people who  caledesi   Aug-10-03 12:07 PM   #1 
  - Point #2  tedoll78   Aug-10-03 12:08 PM   #2 
  - I agree with you 100% Eloriel  DinoBoy   Aug-10-03 12:09 PM   #3 
  - See?  tedoll78   Aug-10-03 12:11 PM   #6 
     - ROTFL -- so true  Eloriel   Aug-10-03 12:20 PM   #14 
  - I've had an interesting thought  JNelson6563   Aug-10-03 12:11 PM   #4 
  - Oh, I think you're entirely right  Eloriel   Aug-10-03 12:32 PM   #22 
  - LOL, only 2????  DEMActivist   Aug-10-03 12:38 PM   #26 
     - Exactly DemA - let's get that silent majority in the US registered to vote  DagmarK   Aug-10-03 02:08 PM   #71 
  - I never thought of that! Thanks, Julie! I know exactly what you  zidzi   Aug-10-03 12:43 PM   #30 
  - Julie, I think you make a VERY good point.  calimary   Aug-10-03 12:43 PM   #31 
  - Go Dems!  Feanorcurufinwe   Aug-10-03 12:11 PM   #5 
  - Deleted message  Name removed   Aug-10-03 12:13 PM   #8 
  - I suspect  DinoBoy   Aug-10-03 12:17 PM   #10 
  - 'Cause I screwed up the UBB. Fixed it now. nt  Eloriel   Aug-10-03 12:22 PM   #16 
  - Dean's picture is next to my computer as we "speak"  wryter2000   Aug-10-03 12:12 PM   #7 
  - Did you get the huge postcard from him in the mail this week?  tedoll78   Aug-10-03 12:16 PM   #9 
     - Yes! I was thrilled. I have it on my fridge. Made my day too.  caledesi   Aug-10-03 12:18 PM   #12 
     - I sure did  wryter2000   Aug-10-03 12:19 PM   #13 
     - The words are "Thank you for your help!" And  zidzi   Aug-10-03 01:26 PM   #51 
        - Yep, I got it too and the "Glad you are on the team" is the key to his  Larkspur   Aug-10-03 05:59 PM   #93 
  - Geez, howcome there is no "Greens for Dean"?  tmfun   Aug-10-03 12:17 PM   #11 
  - We've seen a lot af vague assertions:  phiddle   Aug-10-03 12:32 PM   #23 
  - Here ya go. Greens4Dean!  hedda_foil   Aug-10-03 12:44 PM   #32 
     - Thanks Hedda  tmfun   Aug-10-03 01:36 PM   #54 
  - ugghhh  wheresthemind   Aug-10-03 12:22 PM   #15 
  - it's tricky sometimes but...  JNelson6563   Aug-10-03 01:56 PM   #63 
  - The more the people are directly involved with government,  FubarFly   Aug-10-03 12:23 PM   #17 
  - I agree.  LWolf   Aug-10-03 12:28 PM   #18 
  - I See The Monitor Has Already Deleted the Offensive Post  DemocratSinceBirth   Aug-10-03 12:28 PM   #19 
  - Okay perhaps you are right -- you are up on Dean -- Quick Question  Wonder   Aug-10-03 12:30 PM   #20 
  - Dean Has Reportedly Said  DemocratSinceBirth   Aug-10-03 12:33 PM   #24 
  - thank you for clarifying that for me  Wonder   Aug-10-03 12:41 PM   #28 
     - In Fairness To Dean  DemocratSinceBirth   Aug-10-03 12:49 PM   #34 
     - Yes I understand that  Wonder   Aug-10-03 01:06 PM   #40 
        - The Right Of Return Is A Big Sticking Point  DemocratSinceBirth   Aug-10-03 01:15 PM   #46 
           - Yes I am familiar with the history  Wonder   Aug-10-03 01:29 PM   #52 
     - heres an article...  wheresthemind   Aug-10-03 01:10 PM   #42 
     - I am aware of this article  Wonder   Aug-10-03 01:15 PM   #44 
     - "Perhaps for lieberman"? You really are paying attention  zidzi   Aug-10-03 02:00 PM   #65 
  - He has a Jew on his staff?  aquart   Aug-10-03 12:48 PM   #33 
  - I don't know about Grossman, or who he is  Eloriel   Aug-10-03 01:15 PM   #45 
  - Steve Grossman, former president of AIPAC. And the DNC. n/t  tjdee   Aug-10-03 05:21 PM   #91 
  - I'm still looking for the answer to your question but in the meantime ....  hedda_foil   Aug-10-03 02:57 PM   #80 
  - I hope we are not using AIPAC as the new "race card"  IndianaGreen   Aug-10-03 05:39 PM   #92 
  - It's more important to examine a candidates actual words and actions  Feanorcurufinwe   Aug-10-03 12:31 PM   #21 
  - Ahhh, but that's not what I said at all -- why are you twisting it  Eloriel   Aug-10-03 01:01 PM   #37 
     - Im not twisting anything. Your exact words:  Feanorcurufinwe   Aug-10-03 01:23 PM   #48 
  - I dig Dean, but I've got a question  Droopy   Aug-10-03 12:34 PM   #25 
  - I truly feel that Dean can articulate the appropriate response to 9/11  ima_sinnic   Aug-10-03 12:51 PM   #35 
  - ima_sinnic  Eloriel   Aug-10-03 01:07 PM   #41 
  - Dean won't rule out preemtive strikes?  wheresthemind   Aug-10-03 01:12 PM   #43 
     - dean is too much more the status quo  Wonder   Aug-10-03 01:21 PM   #47 
     - Um, Kerry voted for a preemptive strike; Dean just wants to talk about it.  FubarFly   Aug-10-03 01:25 PM   #50 
     - ah yes the virtues of pragmatic relativism  Wonder   Aug-10-03 01:33 PM   #53 
     - Agreed  FubarFly   Aug-10-03 01:40 PM   #56 
        - hahahahahah  wheresthemind   Aug-10-03 01:46 PM   #58 
        - Hmmm...  FubarFly   Aug-10-03 01:53 PM   #61 
        - I'm sorry... I might of come off wrong...  wheresthemind   Aug-10-03 02:05 PM   #68 
           - well now  Wonder   Aug-10-03 02:08 PM   #70 
        - dean another nader hahahahahahah!  Wonder   Aug-10-03 02:05 PM   #69 
           - I don't think it is a Dean supporter flaw...  wheresthemind   Aug-10-03 02:12 PM   #73 
              - well I only notice the polarity  Wonder   Aug-10-03 03:19 PM   #85 
        - so it's the lesser of all evils - eh?  Wonder   Aug-10-03 01:47 PM   #59 
           - It's not an evil at all. Those are your words not mine. n/t.  FubarFly   Aug-10-03 01:54 PM   #62 
              - hah I know! They are my words not yours.  Wonder   Aug-10-03 02:03 PM   #67 
                 - So what are your motives then?  FubarFly   Aug-10-03 02:12 PM   #72 
                    - Wonders motives seem to be....  wheresthemind   Aug-10-03 02:18 PM   #76 
                    - thank you  Wonder   Aug-10-03 03:16 PM   #84 
                    - good source of information  Wonder   Aug-10-03 03:09 PM   #82 
                       - Thanks for an honest answer  FubarFly   Aug-10-03 03:48 PM   #89 
                          - thanks FubarFly  Wonder   Aug-10-03 03:56 PM   #90 
                             - Well, one thing that Dean is a lot less status quo on is voting reform.  ryharrin   Aug-10-03 06:09 PM   #94 
                                - Huh? Do you mean instant runoff voting?  acerbic   Aug-10-03 06:16 PM   #96 
     - there might be...  wheresthemind   Aug-10-03 01:39 PM   #55 
        - I guess it comes down to trust.  FubarFly   Aug-10-03 01:45 PM   #57 
           - I always try and keep an open mind... : )  wheresthemind   Aug-10-03 01:56 PM   #64 
     - If there is a REAL Imminent Threat to the USA, I hope to GOD  DagmarK   Aug-10-03 02:16 PM   #75 
     - Imminent threat?  wheresthemind   Aug-10-03 02:27 PM   #78 
        - Kennedy Masterfully Handled The Cuban Missile Crisis  DemocratSinceBirth   Aug-10-03 03:02 PM   #81 
     - Article 51 of the UN Charter allows pre-emptive strikes but only  Larkspur   Aug-10-03 06:13 PM   #95 
  - That 70% number is misleading  dansolo   Aug-10-03 03:31 PM   #86 
     - the polls ask misleading questions  Feanorcurufinwe   Aug-10-03 03:39 PM   #88 
  - Bless you Eloriel! You wouldn't believe the flame-fest going on  calimary   Aug-10-03 12:40 PM   #27 
  - I respectfully submit  DemocratSinceBirth   Aug-10-03 12:42 PM   #29 
  - Just so you know  Eloriel   Aug-10-03 01:23 PM   #49 
  - Difference betw Dean and Hart.......(and it's a big one)  DagmarK   Aug-10-03 02:19 PM   #77 
     - Why would  DemocratSinceBirth   Aug-10-03 03:11 PM   #83 
  - Thanks, Eloriel, for these handy links to "bookmark" for all  zidzi   Aug-10-03 12:58 PM   #36 
  - Yaooo! El comes out swinging!  wtmusic   Aug-10-03 01:05 PM   #38 
  - Eloriel and other Dean supporters....will you help me answer some  Dover   Aug-10-03 01:05 PM   #39 
  - I'd much prefer you read his own issues pages, but  Eloriel   Aug-10-03 01:51 PM   #60 
     - Thanks for that info and explanation Eloriel.  Dover   Aug-10-03 02:29 PM   #79 
  - All hail Eloriel!!!!!!!!! Thank you!!!  DagmarK   Aug-10-03 02:01 PM   #66 
  - Sounds Like Fuzzy Math  DemocratSinceBirth   Aug-10-03 03:36 PM   #87 
     - That's bad logic.  ryharrin   Aug-10-03 07:45 PM   #97 
  - CHEERS EVERYONE FOR LACK OF FLAME FEST HERE!  wheresthemind   Aug-10-03 02:15 PM   #74 
 

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