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tkulesa Donating Member (556 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-04-04 02:46 PM
Response to Reply #53
54. A hero
When studying religions you come to the question of karma, and inevitably you get the question, is it the intent or the outcome that counts to determine the effect on your karma?

It's something similar. If you intend to help people that certainly counts towards being a hero. Wanting to help people and trying to help people are worthy of respect whether or not you succed. That's why I can respect people who follow their beliefs even if I strongly oppose their beliefs. But that by itself doesn't make you a hero.

If you actually do help people, regardless of your intent, then that certainly counts too. After all, many heroes didn't think about what they were doing, they just did it. Ideally, a hero has both the intent and the action.

We place a lot of emphasis on overcoming risks, so that's also taken into account when you talk about a hero.

So let's talk about Tillman and Rall...

So Tillman gets a lot of credit for giving up pro-sports to join the military. He gets a lot of credit for intent.

Ted Rall's entire purpose is to inform people, educate people, free people from lies and deliberate political obfuscation. So he also gets a lot of credit for intent.

Tillman doesn't seem to have actually accomplished anything heroic. But that's no fault of his own. So while he might not meet this part of the definition for a hero, I wouldn't criticise him for that. Few of us every really accomplish anything heroic. He was still appartently a good person and deserved respect.

Rall definitely succeeds in helping people. He helps push the center farther to the left simply by insisting that there is a left. He gets the truth out there about political lies and hypocracy. He went into a battle zone to report on the truth so that we could see something other than Fox News. I can't be the only person who has been informed and enlightened by some of his experiences, his research, and his articles. (I actually don't care for his cartoons nearly as much as his articles. But they are very informative too if you read his writing and know what backs up those cartoons.)

Tillman risked his life, and ultimately gave his life for what he believed in.

Rall went to Afganistan, unarmed and without military support, as a journalist reporting on what was really going on. He wasn't one of the embedded shills. He is also the target of a whole lot of hate for his writing and cartoons. So he risks his life and his career too.

So, what is my conclusion? I won't disrepect Tillman. He believed in what he was doing even if I think he was was duped by right. He was acting heroicly, even if I don't think he reached the status of Hero. He was a good man who had the misfortune to believe the right and died for it.

Ted Rall is an everyday hero. He's not a ghandi or a Martin Luther King Jr. But he is struggling day in and day out to get the truth out there despite threats, dangers and risks.

The difference between the two men is that Tillman believed that fighting and killing people could make you right. Rall believes that the people doing the fighting doing wrong, and for the wrong reasons.

This isn't definitive, by any stretch, but you asked for some commentary about what it means to be a hero. This is my $0.02.
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  -I'd just like to say I've been calling Ted Rall a fucking scumbag Bombtrack  May-04-04 11:05 AM   #0 
  - We're our own worst enemy  sandnsea   May-04-04 11:09 AM   #1 
  - its because if you don't agree with all of the progressive agenda  karabekian   May-04-04 11:13 AM   # 
  - Human nature......(nt)  rinsd   May-04-04 12:46 PM   #43 
  - My opinion on Pat Tillman is that he did the unthinkable (for a Repuke)  zbdent   May-04-04 11:11 AM   #2 
  - How do you know Tillman was Republican?  w4rma   May-04-04 11:15 AM   #5 
  - Don't know if he was a Repuke - the point was that  zbdent   May-04-04 12:21 PM   #37 
  - he was a surfer who biked to practice  rumguy   May-04-04 11:41 AM   #24 
  - Again, I admired him for doing what a Repuke probably wouldn't do  zbdent   May-04-04 12:23 PM   #38 
     - I agree  Killarney   May-04-04 01:54 PM   #52 
  - Read more about Tillman .....  ronnykmarshall   May-04-04 12:58 PM   #48 
  - I never cared much for him either  alvis   May-04-04 11:13 AM   #3 
  - Yeah, Or where he mocked the 9-11 widows, or when he advocated  Bombtrack   May-04-04 11:24 AM   #9 
  - What's the problem?  BlueEyedSon   May-04-04 11:13 AM   #4 
  - In a word Yes  bryant69   May-04-04 11:20 AM   #7 
     - So they are all heroes.  BlueEyedSon   May-04-04 11:25 AM   #11 
     - but its not hypocrisy of Tillmans doing.  bhunt70   May-04-04 11:28 AM   #16 
     - Fair point; but as Bhunt says  bryant69   May-04-04 11:33 AM   #19 
     - Except himself and a few Arabs...  Vladimir   May-04-04 11:33 AM   #20 
        - It was war  bryant69   May-04-04 11:45 AM   #26 
           - Put it to you this way  Vladimir   May-04-04 11:49 AM   #29 
              - Well that's a pretty high standard  bryant69   May-04-04 11:57 AM   #33 
                 - There are degrees of sympathy  Vladimir   May-04-04 12:10 PM   #35 
  - Actually, I think I called you a shit-eating punk for something else.  denverbill   May-04-04 11:17 AM   #6 
  - Well bully for you  bicentennial_baby   May-04-04 11:21 AM   #8 
  - That's funny, because its one of the few  Vladimir   May-04-04 11:25 AM   #10 
  - Ted Rall Rocks! You can be outraged all you want  el_gato   May-04-04 11:26 AM   #12 
  - I agree with you, el_gato. Political cartoons should be provocative  scrotim   May-04-04 01:43 PM   #50 
  - Pat Tillman got 'duped' by bush*'s a poignant editorial  amen1234   May-04-04 11:26 AM   #13 
  - Pointing out gargantuan ignorance parading around as "Patriotism" bothers  Misinformed01   May-04-04 11:27 AM   #14 
  - I thought it suct too!  Hubert Flottz   May-04-04 11:28 AM   #15 
  - so you are calling for censorship then?  el_gato   May-04-04 11:30 AM   #18 
     - people who are seen as representative of one's ideology yet are  Bombtrack   May-04-04 11:39 AM   #23 
     - Your offended, I'm not  el_gato   May-04-04 11:43 AM   #25 
        - What propaganda did he buy into, and by the way where does he get off  Bombtrack   May-04-04 11:47 AM   #27 
           - Really, now....  TreasonousBastard   May-04-04 12:15 PM   #36 
              - if "kill Arabs" is not about race, why mention "Arabs" at all?  lib71   May-04-04 12:50 PM   #45 
     - It means you go your way and I'll go mine!  Hubert Flottz   May-04-04 11:48 AM   #28 
        - no in fact I agree with you  el_gato   May-04-04 11:57 AM   #34 
  - Rall is exactly correct, as always  mmm   May-04-04 11:29 AM   #17 
  - Yeah, thank god for brats who call people racists, as Rall does  Bombtrack   May-04-04 11:36 AM   #21 
     - whatsamatter bomb, getting angry at people cause they don't agree with you  el_gato   May-04-04 11:38 AM   #22 
        - I'm getting mad at people because they do what Jerry Falwell does  Bombtrack   May-04-04 02:47 PM   #55 
  - Liking Rall is now a prerequisite for being a Democrat? (nt)  rinsd   May-04-04 11:52 AM   #30 
  - Ted Rall is the national id  ann_coulter_is_a_man   May-04-04 11:53 AM   #31 
  - Yup. You put it into words for me, ann. (I like your name. Ha) n/t  scrotim   May-04-04 01:44 PM   #51 
  - Why don't you try reading it before commenting, bombtrack?. . .  Journeyman   May-04-04 11:56 AM   #32 
  - He's not a scumbag  tkulesa   May-04-04 12:33 PM   #39 
  - Hero???  hughee99   May-04-04 12:40 PM   #41 
     - everyone is missing that Rall  56kid   May-04-04 12:55 PM   #46 
     - Why Ted Rall is a hero  tkulesa   May-04-04 01:07 PM   #49 
        - I guess  hughee99   May-04-04 02:22 PM   #53 
           - A hero  tkulesa   May-04-04 02:46 PM   #54 
  - I'm with you on this.  wicket   May-04-04 12:39 PM   #40 
  - If you can call him a hero, other people can call him an idiot.  DrWeird   May-04-04 12:44 PM   #42 
  - My question is...  hughee99   May-04-04 12:50 PM   #44 
     - He's a hero because he's American.  DrWeird   May-04-04 12:55 PM   #47 
  - whine whine whine  Forkboy   May-04-04 03:05 PM   #56 

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