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Reply #141: I Think It Clears Up THAT Question [View All]

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outinforce Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-08-04 04:56 PM
Response to Reply #131
141. I Think It Clears Up THAT Question
but I would want to be clear about what you are talking about in your proof and elsewhere here when you speak about "life" -- are you speaking about "medical life" "biological life" or some other kind of "life".

And if you are speaking about medical "life", wouldn't it be simpler to ask a physician (or group of physicians) how they define "medical life"?

If you are talking about "legal" life, then perhaps a look at law books would be instructive.

I really am not sure what kind of "life" you are referring to in your other posts to this thread. It would appear to me, however, that you are speaking of "medical" life or "legal" life.

I do think, though, that you opened the door to what I might call "philosophical" life when you said that I could define life by reference to some philosophy, or did I misunderstand you?

"Legal" life, as well, I think, as "medical" life are subject to change, if I understand correctly.

The law could, by a vote of a legislature, or by a vote of just nine people, change the "legal" definition of life.

The same is true, I think, of "medical life" -- physicians could change, given new technologies or new ways of looking at bioethics, the definition of "medical" life.

Are you suggesting that there is something special -- and more permanent in your own definition of life?
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  -Pro Choice / Pro Life and the loss of the Democratic majority. Frodo  Apr-07-04 08:22 PM   #0 
  - I am pro-choice  southerngirlwriter   Apr-07-04 08:25 PM   #1 
  - Your post contradicts itself  kiahzero   Apr-07-04 08:30 PM   #3 
  - I'm assuming that  southerngirlwriter   Apr-07-04 08:33 PM   #5 
  - There's no logical way to demonstrate that  kiahzero   Apr-07-04 08:48 PM   #8 
     - Sigh.  southerngirlwriter   Apr-07-04 08:53 PM   #9 
     - I answered that question  kiahzero   Apr-07-04 09:03 PM   #11 
     - OK.  southerngirlwriter   Apr-07-04 09:43 PM   #14 
     - Right  kiahzero   Apr-07-04 09:51 PM   #19 
     - You don't spend a lot of time looking at the opposing view  Muddleoftheroad   Apr-07-04 09:45 PM   #15 
     - Document, Please  REP   Apr-07-04 10:14 PM   #24 
     - My nephew and nieces were born at age 23 weeks  dsc   Apr-07-04 10:16 PM   #25 
     - No  REP   Apr-07-04 10:23 PM   #28 
        - hardly  dsc   Apr-07-04 10:26 PM   #30 
        - In Other Words, You Can't Back Your Assertion  REP   Apr-07-04 10:28 PM   #32 
        - what more wouild you like  dsc   Apr-07-04 10:31 PM   #34 
           - See my #35 for a citation (Guiness book)  Frodo   Apr-07-04 10:33 PM   #37 
        - hey, my daughters bday is 2/2/91... small world... nt  zwade   Apr-07-04 11:04 PM   #47 
           - cool. but I do feel sorry for you  dsc   Apr-07-04 11:08 PM   #48 
              - ha ha! it is rough :) .. my hair is mostly gone...  zwade   Apr-07-04 11:16 PM   #51 
                 - Oh yes  dsc   Apr-07-04 11:20 PM   #52 
        - Ok... will this do?  Frodo   Apr-07-04 10:33 PM   #35 
     - Several cases of well before 24 weeks have been linked to  southerngirlwriter   Apr-07-04 10:43 PM   #40 
     - Ding! Ding! Give the ladie a Kewpie doll!  Frodo   Apr-07-04 10:50 PM   #43 
     - Here is one small example  Muddleoftheroad   Apr-07-04 11:24 PM   #54 
     - I actually know....  Heyo   Apr-08-04 03:58 PM   #108 
     - Right.  southerngirlwriter   Apr-07-04 10:19 PM   #26 
     - No They Haven't  REP   Apr-07-04 10:24 PM   #29 
     - Link  southerngirlwriter   Apr-07-04 10:29 PM   #33 
        - Oh wonder what the person will say now  dsc   Apr-07-04 10:33 PM   #36 
        - Another one  southerngirlwriter   Apr-07-04 10:35 PM   #38 
           - A correction on your math  Frodo   Apr-07-04 10:47 PM   #41 
              - Thanks for clarifying.  southerngirlwriter   Apr-07-04 10:53 PM   #45 
     - No, it's really not  kiahzero   Apr-08-04 08:21 AM   #79 
        - You think that a preemie in an incubator in the NICU  southerngirlwriter   Apr-08-04 08:24 AM   #81 
        - LOL!  Frodo   Apr-08-04 10:44 AM   #83 
        - I am still astounded by that post.  southerngirlwriter   Apr-08-04 11:33 AM   #85 
           - It's part of the "slippery slope" we open ourselves up for  Frodo   Apr-08-04 12:15 PM   #87 
              - Do I need to edit my post, since reading comprehension is an issue?  kiahzero   Apr-08-04 05:58 PM   #156 
                 - No. You just need to pay more attention to what you are responding to.  Frodo   Apr-08-04 07:22 PM   #166 
                    - Nice, but wrong.  kiahzero   Apr-09-04 08:08 AM   #178 
                       - Whoops. I was joking.  Frodo   Apr-09-04 09:06 AM   #179 
                          - Here we go  kiahzero   Apr-09-04 09:22 AM   #181 
                             - Alright, let's try this again.  Frodo   Apr-09-04 10:46 AM   #187 
                             - Good Points  outinforce   Apr-09-04 11:19 AM   #188 
                             - Good catch  kiahzero   Apr-09-04 04:37 PM   #191 
        - Depends:  kiahzero   Apr-08-04 04:01 PM   #109 
           - LOL  southerngirlwriter   Apr-08-04 04:08 PM   #110 
           - Your conditions for life are what are laughable  kiahzero   Apr-08-04 04:17 PM   #115 
              - If they were truly dead, it wouldn't be qualified as *brain* death  redqueen   Apr-08-04 04:24 PM   #118 
              - Death is not death?  kiahzero   Apr-08-04 04:41 PM   #130 
                 - Yes, a variety of death  redqueen   Apr-08-04 04:46 PM   #133 
                    - To me, medically dead is medically dead.  kiahzero   Apr-08-04 04:48 PM   #134 
                       - other than the fact that you are defining brain death and not death  dsc   Apr-08-04 04:56 PM   #139 
                       - I've had difficulty finding information on such cases  kiahzero   Apr-08-04 05:44 PM   #151 
                       - Here are several broad categories  dsc   Apr-08-04 08:49 PM   #171 
                       - *sigh*  redqueen   Apr-08-04 04:56 PM   #140 
                       - The key here is "to ME"  Frodo   Apr-08-04 07:26 PM   #168 
              - Those are not conditions for life.  southerngirlwriter   Apr-08-04 04:25 PM   #120 
              - It's mind-boggling  redqueen   Apr-08-04 04:29 PM   #121 
              - Medically, yes  kiahzero   Apr-08-04 04:39 PM   #127 
              - I Do Have A Problem Here  outinforce   Apr-08-04 04:31 PM   #123 
                 - I do not define "life" as such.  kiahzero   Apr-08-04 04:37 PM   #125 
           - How So?  outinforce   Apr-08-04 04:24 PM   #117 
           - Good question  kiahzero   Apr-08-04 04:43 PM   #131 
              - I Think It Clears Up THAT Question  outinforce   Apr-08-04 04:56 PM   #141 
                 - Speaking of a definition of life drawn from medicine  kiahzero   Apr-08-04 05:05 PM   #144 
           - Direct Question.  southerngirlwriter   Apr-08-04 04:38 PM   #126 
              - I fail to see a distinction between a womb and an incubator  kiahzero   Apr-08-04 04:46 PM   #132 
                 - You didn't answer my question.  southerngirlwriter   Apr-08-04 04:49 PM   #135 
                 - You misread my post  kiahzero   Apr-08-04 04:55 PM   #138 
                    - I didn't think you answered earlier either  redqueen   Apr-08-04 04:59 PM   #143 
                    - What do you mean?  kiahzero   Apr-08-04 05:19 PM   #147 
                       - Referring to your response  redqueen   Apr-08-04 05:27 PM   #149 
                          - Yes.  kiahzero   Apr-08-04 05:42 PM   #150 
                          - I'd be happy to  redqueen   Apr-08-04 05:54 PM   #154 
                          - Go ahead and PM me when you get a chance  kiahzero   Apr-08-04 05:55 PM   #155 
                    - A few more questions  southerngirlwriter   Apr-08-04 09:48 PM   #172 
                 - you complain that I call you a eugenecist, which I didn't,  dsc   Apr-08-04 04:53 PM   #137 
                    - Once again  kiahzero   Apr-08-04 04:58 PM   #142 
                       - The whole premise of permitting abortion  dsc   Apr-08-04 05:08 PM   #145 
                          - That is not my premise  kiahzero   Apr-08-04 05:20 PM   #148 
                             - I will give you kudos for intellectual honesty  dsc   Apr-09-04 09:40 AM   #183 
        - I guess you get points for consistency  dsc   Apr-08-04 10:50 AM   #84 
        - IQ is completely irrelavant to the discussion at hand  kiahzero   Apr-08-04 04:10 PM   #111 
           - You do realize that  dsc   Apr-08-04 04:25 PM   #119 
        - That's an attitude I thought I only saw  Muddleoftheroad   Apr-08-04 12:19 PM   #89 
           - Ad hominem attacks and assertions, oh my!  kiahzero   Apr-08-04 03:52 PM   #106 
     - If it is alive , how come it is not born naturally at five months instead  Marianne   Apr-08-04 06:23 PM   #161 
     - The "logic" of your argument is not compelling.  Frodo   Apr-07-04 10:23 PM   #27 
        - I think you misread me.  kiahzero   Apr-08-04 08:18 AM   #78 
           - Your Proof Demonstrates No Such Thing.  outinforce   Apr-08-04 01:03 PM   #101 
     - there is no "being" inside the mother.  Marianne   Apr-08-04 06:13 PM   #160 
        - Please clarify.  southerngirlwriter   Apr-08-04 10:02 PM   #173 
     - I Think I Detect a Flaw In Your Logic  outinforce   Apr-08-04 12:55 PM   #100 
     - You may assert that, if and only if,  kiahzero   Apr-08-04 03:43 PM   #103 
        - Life and Death  outinforce   Apr-08-04 04:14 PM   #113 
           - It is a possibility, but it is an essential one  kiahzero   Apr-08-04 04:31 PM   #124 
              - Exactly, I Think  outinforce   Apr-08-04 04:49 PM   #136 
     - that was a wonderful presentation-  Marianne   Apr-08-04 06:07 PM   #159 
  - If the right was truely 'pro-life' roe would be overturned  goddess40   Apr-08-04 02:14 PM   #102 
  - You are mistaken about the Supreme Court  kiahzero   Apr-08-04 03:50 PM   #105 
     - 5 gave bush the white house isn't that proof enough?  goddess40   Apr-08-04 05:46 PM   #152 
        - Not really.  kiahzero   Apr-08-04 05:51 PM   #153 
  - Why is it..  Heyo   Apr-08-04 03:54 PM   #107 
  - The right wing has defined a medical procedure as baby-killing.  Cleita   Apr-07-04 08:33 PM   #4 
     - I agree.  southerngirlwriter   Apr-07-04 08:34 PM   #6 
     - Would It Not Be Just As Accurate  outinforce   Apr-09-04 09:53 AM   #185 
  - I think there are a lot more Pro-Choice Repugs then Pro-life Dems.  fearnobush   Apr-07-04 08:26 PM   #2 
  - Sorry. Not even close to true.  Frodo   Apr-07-04 09:53 PM   #20 
  - Pro life Democrats just can't get elected  Warpy   Apr-07-04 08:44 PM   #7 
  - Yeah those conservative bastards Dennis Kucinich  dsc   Apr-07-04 09:02 PM   #10 
  - The utter disrespect towards pro lifers on this board  dsc   Apr-07-04 09:30 PM   #12 
  - That's very interesting information. Thank you.  southerngirlwriter   Apr-07-04 09:39 PM   #13 
  - You are welcome  dsc   Apr-07-04 09:46 PM   #16 
  - That's for sure. It's really depressing to feel ostracized..  lostnfound   Apr-07-04 11:15 PM   #50 
  - poll after poll show most Americans lean pro-choice  rumguy   Apr-07-04 09:48 PM   #17 
  - But are not 100% for abortion in all cases  Muddleoftheroad   Apr-07-04 09:51 PM   #18 
  - see post 12  dsc   Apr-07-04 09:55 PM   #21 
     - Ok, so we'll use those numbers.  Frodo   Apr-07-04 10:03 PM   #23 
  - But the party doesn't "lean" pro-choice.  Frodo   Apr-07-04 10:01 PM   #22 
     - it's a reaction to the extremism of the right  rumguy   Apr-07-04 10:26 PM   #31 
        - Yep -it's the gun argument in reverse... and they're winning this one.  Frodo   Apr-07-04 10:39 PM   #39 
           - You make excellent points here.  southerngirlwriter   Apr-07-04 10:51 PM   #44 
  - This thread hits close to home for me.  Just Me Here   Apr-07-04 10:48 PM   #42 
  - Damnit, Sam, why the hell didn't you return my call yesterday?  southerngirlwriter   Apr-07-04 10:59 PM   #46 
  - Hmmm...  Just Me Here   Apr-07-04 11:24 PM   #53 
  - I vote for Democrats despite being pro life  dsc   Apr-07-04 11:11 PM   #49 
  - Bush Republicans claim to be pro-life  DaveSZ   Apr-07-04 11:36 PM   #55 
  - .  DaveSZ   Apr-07-04 11:42 PM   #56 
  - I agree with the basic concept of this thread though  DaveSZ   Apr-07-04 11:45 PM   #58 
  - those would be some of the other issues I meant  dsc   Apr-07-04 11:46 PM   #59 
  - I'm with dsc here  BigThama   Apr-07-04 11:44 PM   #57 
     - Couple of things.  southerngirlwriter   Apr-07-04 11:53 PM   #60 
     - On that first point...  BigThama   Apr-08-04 08:09 AM   #74 
        - Yes, we got over 60 posts before any did any name-calling!  southerngirlwriter   Apr-08-04 08:21 AM   #80 
           - Ugh.  BigThama   Apr-08-04 10:15 AM   #82 
              - But isn't the product of a rape still an innocent baby?  kitkatrose   Apr-08-04 12:51 PM   #98 
     - On the subject of avoiding unwanted pregnancies...  Nobody   Apr-08-04 10:15 PM   #174 
        - Very sensible comments. This entire thread has been great.  lostnfound   Apr-09-04 08:05 AM   #177 
        - Even Though You Don't Say This.  outinforce   Apr-09-04 01:21 PM   #190 
  - My problem with Pro Life is the narrow focus  Sunny_Sunshine   Apr-08-04 11:51 AM   #86 
  - And don't forget the Death Penalty!  Frodo   Apr-08-04 12:19 PM   #90 
  - I'm O-Neg, as well.  southerngirlwriter   Apr-08-04 12:39 PM   #94 
  - I think pro-lifers have hijacked the term.  dawn   Apr-08-04 12:42 PM   #95 
  - I am pro-life.  chair094   Apr-08-04 05:14 PM   #146 
  - Barking up the wrong tree...  Just Me Here   Apr-09-04 12:16 AM   #175 
  - Well, what about the kids we kill in foreign wars?  dawn   Apr-08-04 12:19 PM   #88 
  - True, but does that make their argument wrong?  southerngirlwriter   Apr-08-04 12:51 PM   #99 
  - I'm sorry.  Just Me Here   Apr-09-04 12:19 AM   #176 
  - Please Allow Me....  outinforce   Apr-08-04 03:49 PM   #104 
  - I'm in that Jimmy Carter school of thought myself.  MrSlayer   Apr-07-04 11:55 PM   #61 
  - No simple reason the "majority" is allegedly lost  ZombyWoof   Apr-08-04 12:36 AM   #62 
  - Bravo!  Susang   Apr-08-04 12:57 AM   #63 
     - and another thing  ZombyWoof   Apr-08-04 01:02 AM   #64 
  - Single defining issue?  mulethree   Apr-08-04 01:53 AM   #65 
  - A couple responses  Frodo   Apr-08-04 05:47 AM   #66 
  - The short answer  Lexingtonian   Apr-08-04 06:28 AM   #67 
  - The problem with that theory is that...  Frodo   Apr-08-04 07:39 AM   #70 
  - So there are that many people are so stupid  JNelson6563   Apr-08-04 07:11 AM   #68 
  - Just compare it to the number of people who...  Frodo   Apr-08-04 07:42 AM   #71 
  - dumb  gpandas   Apr-08-04 04:16 PM   #114 
  - Give an inch...  LeahMira   Apr-08-04 07:32 AM   #69 
  - The slippery slope argument  Muddleoftheroad   Apr-08-04 08:02 AM   #73 
  - I don't see anyone here arguing to take away an inch.  southerngirlwriter   Apr-08-04 08:12 AM   #76 
  - The Pro-Life movement is an arm of the GOP  markus   Apr-08-04 07:58 AM   #72 
  - No it's not.  BigThama   Apr-08-04 08:12 AM   #75 
  - Well... Yes and No.  Frodo   Apr-08-04 08:17 AM   #77 
  - Deleted message  Name removed   Apr-08-04 12:22 PM   #91 
  - I'm probably going to be flamed, but...(long)  dawn   Apr-08-04 12:32 PM   #92 
  - great post! (eom)  apnu   Apr-08-04 12:36 PM   #93 
  - I am not advocating that Democrats abandon pro-choice  southerngirlwriter   Apr-08-04 12:43 PM   #96 
  - Thank you  skippysmom   Apr-08-04 12:47 PM   #97 
  - Democrats cannot allow themselves to be sucked in by wedge issues  bigbillhaywood   Apr-08-04 04:13 PM   #112 
  - a sensible approach...play to your strengths  noiretblu   Apr-08-04 06:01 PM   #157 
     - Thanks, it's been a while since anyone on DU accused my ideas of being  bigbillhaywood   Apr-08-04 06:05 PM   #158 
  - Yes  redqueen   Apr-08-04 04:22 PM   #116 
  - The Democratic party...  Q   Apr-08-04 04:30 PM   #122 
  - Except she didn't say to throw the issue away  redqueen   Apr-08-04 04:40 PM   #128 
     - There's a difference between 'differing views'...  Q   Apr-08-04 06:30 PM   #162 
        - Ummmmmm No. Not even close.  Frodo   Apr-08-04 06:45 PM   #163 
  - my only concern  ulysses   Apr-08-04 04:40 PM   #129 
  - Hmmm. Then how do you explain...?  Frodo   Apr-08-04 06:48 PM   #164 
  - The One Thing Common Among Pro-Lifers  voted4wellstone   Apr-08-04 06:48 PM   #165 
  - Riiiight.  Frodo   Apr-08-04 07:25 PM   #167 
     - What? Like Prenatal And Post-Natal Care  voted4wellstone   Apr-08-04 08:32 PM   #169 
        - No. And I think you know it.  Frodo   Apr-08-04 08:41 PM   #170 
  - I wish the dems could drop the abortion issue. I really don't  okieinpain   Apr-09-04 09:13 AM   #180 
  - "think about how easy it is to say you're for the unborn"  outinforce   Apr-09-04 09:28 AM   #182 
  - If somebody votes Republican on this one issue....  Bridget Burke   Apr-09-04 09:44 AM   #184 
     - Fair Enough  outinforce   Apr-09-04 09:56 AM   #186 
     - If Dems were as consistent about war as they are about choice..  lostnfound   Apr-09-04 11:26 AM   #189 
 

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