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iverglas Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-16-04 12:48 PM
Response to Reply #55
74. and *that*
was from a right-wing media outlet, until recently a flagship of the Conrad Black organization: the Telegraph.

"Southern Baptists have prayed for years that Iraq would somehow be opened to the gospel," his appeal began. That "open door" for Christians may soon close.
Hmm. And that door was opened for them by ... why, it couldn't have been the US government's illegal and immoral invasion and occupation of Iraq, could it??

The US Agency for International Development has said that the government cannot rein in private charities. "Imagine what the US Congress would say to us," said a spokesman in April.
Hmm. The US government, as the occupying power in a country, can't control who enters that country, and for what purpose? Well who *does* have that authority? -- that authority, to control who crosses its borders, being one of the prime markers of a sovereign state, after all. And if it ain't the US government, did somebody ask whoever it is whether they wanted Southern Baptist missionaries there? Like, did they get a visa from somebody? I think Iraqis probably need visas to enter the US ...

Southern Baptists from North Carolina visited Iraq in October to help hand out 45,000 boxes of donated food. One of the team, Jim Walker, told IMB's Urgent News bulletin that he met village children "starved of attention and I could tell some of them have not eaten well. But their biggest need is to know the love of Christ."
And of course, he's not doing anything to fill that "need". Noooo.

Mr Hanna concedes his new Iraqi friends were possibly drawn by the novelty of meeting Americans. "But you don't discount that, you use it as an opportunity to tell them about Jesus. Last time we only took 8,000 Arabic Bibles to Iraq. In future missions the goal is one million."
Yeah, just like you use food as an opportunity to tell starving people things they didn't ask you to tell them about.

If I were Iraqi, I might very well be asking these people "who invited you?" And I'd think it very obvious that the US government, which does indeed have the power to control who enters the country, which Iraqis certainly don't have, is the answer to that question.

The missionaries pose a dilemma for President George W Bush.
And obviously he's the one who can choose between the horns of that dilemma, and has done just that by allowing them access to Iraq that they were denied before the invasion and occupation.

I'm sure it's not difficult for Iraqis to see whose work the Southern Baptists in their midst are doing.

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  -The three Americans killed in Iraq Monday were Baptist missionaries NNN0LHI  Mar-15-04 10:10 PM   #0 
  - Any minute now you'll see "good for them!"  LoZoccolo   Mar-15-04 10:14 PM   #1 
  - Let me get the ball rolling.  DemsUnite   Mar-15-04 10:22 PM   #3 
  - I Could Be Wrong Here  outinforce   Mar-16-04 12:32 PM   #70 
     - You're right, but...  Chovexani   Mar-16-04 03:44 PM   #84 
     - God gave us the truth. The devil gave us religion.  DemsUnite   Mar-16-04 04:07 PM   #87 
  - FreeRepublic Broke the story...  hexola   Mar-15-04 10:22 PM   #4 
  - Pleasantly surprised I was technically wrong.  LoZoccolo   Mar-16-04 12:31 AM   #28 
  - well, the Southern Baptists did insult Muslims I believe, along with Jews  Marianne   Mar-16-04 10:51 AM   # 
  - Toxic Thread  rinsd   Mar-16-04 10:51 AM   #51 
     - You got that right.  QC   Mar-16-04 12:28 PM   #69 
  - missionaries or humanitarians  Djinn   Mar-15-04 10:16 PM   #2 
  - what a shame  rchsod   Mar-15-04 10:28 PM   #5 
  - 3 lives wasted  mmm   Mar-15-04 10:31 PM   #7 
  - As Southern Baptists they believed that Muhammed was an evil man  Marianne   Mar-16-04 11:24 AM   #56 
  - I think I'd drive around unescorted in Iraq  markses   Mar-15-04 10:28 PM   #6 
  - But this is not a crusade. Really, its not one. I promise. Its really  Jacobin   Mar-15-04 10:39 PM   #8 
  - if you're an uninvited foriegner in iraq and don't want to get shot at  KG   Mar-15-04 10:41 PM   #9 
  - funny  nayt   Mar-15-04 10:49 PM   #10 
     - A slight distinction  Jacobin   Mar-15-04 10:53 PM   #11 
     - US isn't, as yet, a war zone  Djinn   Mar-15-04 10:57 PM   #12 
     - there is no similarity to construe.  KG   Mar-15-04 10:58 PM   #13 
     - immigrants = occupation forces?  Aidoneus   Mar-15-04 11:02 PM   #14 
        - occupation forces?  nayt   Mar-15-04 11:37 PM   #16 
           - Did they support the war?  Nakedmonkey   Mar-15-04 11:56 PM   #20 
           - did they?  nayt   Mar-16-04 12:10 AM   #22 
           - Some more information about missionaries  oldcoot   Mar-16-04 11:18 AM   #55 
           - and *that*  iverglas   Mar-16-04 12:48 PM   #74 
           - Well, as southern baptists  Sandpiper   Mar-16-04 06:48 PM   #107 
           - Yup--Southern Baptist Convention was the only religion that supported  Marianne   Mar-16-04 11:26 AM   #57 
           - sorry NOT humanitarian workers  Djinn   Mar-16-04 12:12 AM   #23 
           - Deleted message  Name removed   Mar-16-04 10:38 AM   #47 
              - Army chaplain  oldcoot   Mar-16-04 11:35 AM   #62 
              - Yes. I don't have a link, he was interviewed on CNN a while ago  DuctapeFatwa   Mar-16-04 03:41 PM   #83 
              - Outrageous!  outinforce   Mar-16-04 12:36 PM   #71 
                 - Well, sort of  eissa   Mar-16-04 12:46 PM   #73 
                    - Thanks for the History Lesson  outinforce   Mar-16-04 01:11 PM   #76 
                       - nah, here's your problem  iverglas   Mar-16-04 01:13 PM   #78 
           - they followed the invaders, and worked with and alongside them  Aidoneus   Mar-16-04 06:24 PM   #103 
  - I wonder what Boykin has to say?  PurityOfEssence   Mar-15-04 11:04 PM   #15 
  - Interesting how there's been absolutely no criticism here  QC   Mar-15-04 11:45 PM   #17 
  - well you know  nayt   Mar-15-04 11:49 PM   #18 
  - No maybe  Djinn   Mar-16-04 12:16 AM   #25 
  - you know, it is possible to be both  ProdigalJunkMail   Mar-16-04 10:14 AM   #45 
     - of course it is  Djinn   Mar-16-04 05:17 PM   #92 
        - believe it or not MOST christians  ProdigalJunkMail   Mar-16-04 05:25 PM   #97 
           - and beleive it or not  Djinn   Mar-16-04 07:00 PM   #110 
              - no valid reason is where you miss the point  ProdigalJunkMail   Mar-16-04 08:18 PM   #111 
                 - NO I Don't know them personally  Djinn   Mar-17-04 03:26 PM   #119 
  - Nice analogy  markses   Mar-16-04 12:23 AM   #27 
  - Maybe they fancied themselves as modern-day Daniels  Art_from_Ark   Mar-16-04 01:29 AM   #29 
  - Sorry--they set themselves up for persecution  Marianne   Mar-16-04 11:29 AM   #59 
  - I just dunno  iverglas   Mar-16-04 12:56 PM   #75 
  - Deleted message  Name removed   Mar-16-04 10:43 AM   #48 
     - Iraq was not "war ravged since the beginning of time"  markses   Mar-16-04 10:51 AM   #50 
     - Deleted message  Name removed   Mar-16-04 10:56 AM   #52 
     - Oh, I can understand the hostility. Believe me.  QC   Mar-16-04 12:26 PM   #68 
        - Really?  Nihil   Mar-17-04 03:11 AM   #115 
  - I really think that before the "Shock and Awe" began people like this...  NNN0LHI   Mar-15-04 11:54 PM   #19 
  - Victims of the Bush "not a crusade"  Hekate   Mar-16-04 12:03 AM   #21 
  - only if you consider  Djinn   Mar-16-04 12:21 AM   #26 
  - I'm not that keen on proselytizing, but I think they were used  Hekate   Mar-16-04 01:41 AM   #30 
     - YES, thank you!  eissa   Mar-16-04 11:26 AM   #58 
     - they're not that naive  iverglas   Mar-16-04 01:12 PM   #77 
  - Sorry, but I cannot buy that they were doing a "good deed"  Marianne   Mar-16-04 11:32 AM   #60 
  - As a dedicated Atheist ...  Trajan   Mar-16-04 12:15 AM   #24 
  - As the great George Carlin sez "Religion has gotten more people killed  opihimoimoi   Mar-16-04 01:46 AM   #31 
  - Four victims now  spinbaby   Mar-16-04 07:04 AM   #32 
  - Thank you, Trajan  hatrack   Mar-16-04 09:09 AM   #37 
  - Nobody is "clapping hands"  Djinn   Mar-16-04 05:14 PM   #91 
     - was gonna say it myself  iverglas   Mar-16-04 05:36 PM   #98 
  - Apparently, though, the Southern Baptist Convention did approve of  Marianne   Mar-16-04 11:34 AM   #61 
  - Just your average American FOOLS...  hexola   Mar-16-04 07:14 AM   #33 
  - If they had been members of the American Friends Service Committee  revcarol   Mar-16-04 07:51 AM   #34 
  - I doubt it  markses   Mar-16-04 07:57 AM   #35 
  - they had NO business being there  ithacan   Mar-16-04 08:07 AM   #36 
  - If you can find the pamphlets on a google search that were issued  Marianne   Mar-16-04 11:39 AM   #63 
  - At the risk of being flamed  freddie57   Mar-16-04 09:24 AM   #38 
  - Yep.  Nlighten1   Mar-16-04 09:32 AM   #39 
  - yes--and my personal opinion is that they are a cult  Marianne   Mar-16-04 11:42 AM   #64 
  - Unless someone's lived in the bible belt  Sandpiper   Mar-16-04 06:57 PM   #109 
  - Whenever I hear or Read  stepnw1f   Mar-16-04 09:48 AM   #40 
  - No wonder Muslims hate us!  hexola   Mar-16-04 09:56 AM   #41 
  - exactly...  varun   Mar-16-04 11:12 AM   #54 
  - and more than not, it is also involved with their own redemption  Marianne   Mar-16-04 11:45 AM   #65 
  - Let Me See If I Understand You  outinforce   Mar-16-04 12:45 PM   #72 
     - Like drug addicts...  hexola   Mar-16-04 03:27 PM   #82 
     - Please Excuse Me  outinforce   Mar-16-04 03:59 PM   #85 
        - They are really more like Pedophiles...  hexola   Mar-16-04 04:29 PM   #89 
     - Stop adding falsehoods  Djinn   Mar-16-04 05:21 PM   #95 
  - Try the Biblical approach?  Nihil   Mar-16-04 09:57 AM   #42 
  - I Believe These People Are Mentally Ill  stepnw1f   Mar-16-04 10:09 AM   #44 
  - There are a lot of Christians in Iraq ~ In fact Saddam's closest adviser  Bandit   Mar-16-04 10:08 AM   #43 
  - Are you sure?  hexola   Mar-16-04 10:33 AM   #46 
     - Yes, there was freedom of religion...  Hell Hath No Fury   Mar-16-04 10:49 AM   #49 
     - No, non-Shia minority religions were treated quite well  Aidoneus   Mar-16-04 06:29 PM   #104 
  - Well, they died doing what they loved.... God bless em  sgr2   Mar-16-04 11:11 AM   #53 
  - Well, no offense meant but I must disagree  Marianne   Mar-16-04 11:57 AM   #67 
     - A voice of reason.  Chovexani   Mar-16-04 04:02 PM   #86 
        - while they may not be martyrs  ProdigalJunkMail   Mar-16-04 05:20 PM   #94 
           - They very *concept* of mission work is arrogant and condescending  Chovexani   Mar-16-04 06:00 PM   #100 
              - your opinion of the christian God is clear  ProdigalJunkMail   Mar-16-04 06:18 PM   #102 
                 - When you went to Africa  Sandpiper   Mar-16-04 06:33 PM   #105 
                    - i see the lack of parallel here  ProdigalJunkMail   Mar-16-04 06:46 PM   #106 
  - Southern Baptist Convention  swinney   Mar-16-04 11:50 AM   #66 
  - Fundies killing fundies good riddance  Joanne98   Mar-16-04 01:19 PM   #79 
  - OK, how about Fern Holland???  RichardRay   Mar-16-04 03:11 PM   #80 
  - For the Christian Dominionists  jokerman2004   Mar-16-04 03:25 PM   #81 
  - Call me a cynic  Sandpiper   Mar-16-04 04:23 PM   #88 
  - Southern Baptists.  Disturbed   Mar-16-04 04:36 PM   #90 
  - I would posit  Sandpiper   Mar-16-04 05:24 PM   #96 
  - God Rest Their Souls. (nt)  ih8thegop   Mar-16-04 05:19 PM   #93 
  - It appears that Jerry Falwell and the boys thought invading Iraq was just  NNN0LHI   Mar-16-04 05:40 PM   #99 
  - The "generals" never think things will get dangerous.  Bridget Burke   Mar-16-04 06:03 PM   #101 
  - Iraq was not a "just war" according to nearly all churches  Hekate   Mar-16-04 11:07 PM   #113 
  - Here we quickly learnt they arrived in the "luggages" of the US army.  BonjourUSA   Mar-16-04 06:54 PM   #108 
  - "les vangliques" would be the Evangelical Christians  Hekate   Mar-16-04 10:57 PM   #112 
     - The dark age is coming back  BonjourUSA   Mar-17-04 06:45 AM   #117 
  - God bless their souls.  Blueshift   Mar-16-04 11:08 PM   #114 
  - Let's see,  crunchyfrog   Mar-17-04 04:06 AM   #116 
  - I am very sorry for their families, and for the Iraqis  GreenPartyVoter   Mar-17-04 07:04 AM   #118 

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