|
Sorry but that is not correct. There is only one document that mentions Jesus and has any reasonable claims to being authentic. There are a couple more but they are generally considered to be later forgeries (and very poor ones at that... think Niger uranium level bad). Still it is not clear as the author had no first hand knowledge and could very well be quoting heresay. There are several credible theories that Jesus was originally not of the flesh but of the mind/spirit. Here is a book that propses that theory. The Jesus Puzzle: http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/096860140... Some consider it the most consistent explaination for the inconsistencies of the bible yet propsed. http://www.infidels.org/library/modern/richard_carrier/... What follows is a critical review of The Jesus Puzzle: Did Christianity Begin with a Mythical Christ? Challenging the Existence of an Historical Jesus, a work by Earl Doherty (Canadian Humanist Publications: Ottawa, Canada; revised edition, 2000). This does not address anything on Doherty's website (http://human.st/jesuspuzzle /) or what he has written elsewhere. It only refers to his book, in its entirety and on its own terms. The reviewer: Richard Carrier has an M.Phil. in ancient history from Columbia University, with a graduate major in historiography, religion, and intellectual history, and has several years experience in Greek linguistics, including palaeography and papyrology.
|
| -Am I the only one here who thinks the 'crucifixion of jesus' is a myth? |
mike1963 |
Feb-24-04 06:06 PM |
#0 |
-
I agree with your dislike of the way Jesus is marketed |
wryter2000 |
Feb-24-04 06:07 PM |
#1 |
 -
Umm |
DennisReveni |
Feb-24-04 06:16 PM |
# |
  -
Hmmm ... interesting line .... |
white_rider |
Feb-24-04 06:20 PM |
#26 |
   -
The Messiah was prophesied |
kcwayne |
Feb-24-04 08:21 PM |
#102 |
    -
Hardly mentioned by Paul, either |
Axel |
Feb-24-04 08:36 PM |
#117 |
   -
Albigensians was the usual name given to the heretics, especially |
HighTide |
Feb-24-04 08:22 PM |
#103 |
  -
Hunted down by the Inquisition and abandoned by the nobles |
HighTide |
Feb-24-04 08:28 PM |
#105 |
   -
Aren't they the Priory of Sion? |
Screaming Lord Byron |
Feb-24-04 08:36 PM |
#116 |
  -
They believed in 'living love' and didn't believe in Crucifixes. |
Screaming Lord Byron |
Feb-24-04 08:29 PM |
#107 |
  -
more |
HighTide |
Feb-24-04 08:38 PM |
#118 |
  -
It is believed that after the fall of Montsegur in 1244 |
Screaming Lord Byron |
Feb-24-04 08:43 PM |
#122 |
  -
Could be poor record keeping. |
snippy |
Feb-24-04 06:21 PM |
#29 |
  -
I could swear Seutonius makes reference to it in |
Cat Atomic |
Feb-24-04 06:22 PM |
#30 |
   -
That only tells us that |
Dookus |
Feb-24-04 07:12 PM |
#71 |
    -
Seutonius was writing about Claudius' reign (41-54 AD). |
Cat Atomic |
Feb-24-04 07:56 PM |
#90 |
   -
I'll clarify |
Dookus |
Feb-24-04 08:02 PM |
#92 |
   -
If you like. |
Cat Atomic |
Feb-24-04 08:12 PM |
#95 |
   -
besides that... |
teknomanzer |
Feb-24-04 08:12 PM |
#96 |
   -
That I've never heard. |
Cat Atomic |
Feb-24-04 08:14 PM |
#98 |
   -
Sorry, "Christ" isn't a name, but a title |
Lydia Leftcoast |
Feb-24-04 08:45 PM |
#125 |
   -
No you are wrong... |
teknomanzer |
Feb-24-04 08:59 PM |
#132 |
   -
Again, I'd like to see something to back that up. |
Cat Atomic |
Feb-24-04 09:01 PM |
#134 |
    -
More for 'Chrestus' |
teknomanzer |
Feb-24-04 09:06 PM |
#139 |
   -
Got it. |
Cat Atomic |
Feb-24-04 09:08 PM |
#140 |
   -
Ah- I take it back. |
Cat Atomic |
Feb-24-04 09:05 PM |
#138 |
   -
I went through a whole period... |
teknomanzer |
Feb-24-04 09:16 PM |
#148 |
   -
Seutonius was born in 69 CE |
kcwayne |
Feb-24-04 08:13 PM |
#97 |
  -
Sure it is. |
Cat Atomic |
Feb-24-04 08:29 PM |
#106 |
  -
Obviously someone had to mention Jesus, or Christianity would not exist |
kcwayne |
Feb-24-04 08:43 PM |
#123 |
   -
Well, personally, I think it's the stories of miracles and fame that |
Cat Atomic |
Feb-24-04 08:47 PM |
#126 |
    -
So I am not following your position |
kcwayne |
Feb-24-04 09:21 PM |
#152 |
   -
You're assuming a religious argument. |
Cat Atomic |
Feb-24-04 09:39 PM |
#164 |
   -
Uh, he was known far and wide in a radius of fifty miles |
Lydia Leftcoast |
Feb-24-04 08:47 PM |
#127 |
  -
I am not claiming he was known far and wide, but the Gospels say he was |
kcwayne |
Feb-24-04 09:11 PM |
#144 |
   -
The early Christians were not into leaving stone tablets |
Lydia Leftcoast |
Feb-24-04 09:21 PM |
#151 |
  -
Deny evidence all you want,, I don't care |
kcwayne |
Feb-24-04 09:34 PM |
#160 |
  -
Very passionate argument indeed... |
teknomanzer |
Feb-24-04 09:36 PM |
#161 |
  -
Records from that period are actually pretty good |
starroute |
Feb-24-04 09:37 PM |
#162 |
  -
"Just" 80 years? |
stopbush |
Feb-25-04 02:41 AM |
#178 |
  -
Its worse than that |
kcwayne |
Feb-25-04 07:21 AM |
#181 |
  -
Might be some dental records someplace. |
oneighty |
Feb-24-04 06:55 PM |
#58 |
 -
Payroll records? |
LiberalFighter |
Feb-24-04 08:25 PM |
#104 |
 -
good one! |
dionysus |
Feb-24-04 08:40 PM |
#119 |
 -
Sorry friend but you are wrong... |
teknomanzer |
Feb-24-04 06:38 PM |
#47 |
 -
You Wanna See Marketing? |
Crisco |
Feb-24-04 08:43 PM |
#121 |
-
Hmmm. Something tells me this thread may get a wee bit heated. |
Screaming Lord Byron |
Feb-24-04 06:08 PM |
#2 |
 -
All the while... |
LoZoccolo |
Feb-24-04 06:11 PM |
#5 |
-
Give it 50 posts. It'll have everything to do with politics by then. |
Screaming Lord Byron |
Feb-24-04 06:13 PM |
#10 |
-
By 40 it should have the word "fundy" or "fundies" in it. |
LoZoccolo |
Feb-24-04 06:15 PM |
#15 |
-
We don't need a bet, it's a scientific fact! |
Screaming Lord Byron |
Feb-24-04 06:16 PM |
#18 |
-
Ha...not counting mine of course. |
LoZoccolo |
Feb-24-04 06:17 PM |
#21 |
-
You may want to read |
DennisReveni |
Feb-24-04 06:10 PM |
#3 |
-
I always thought it was a bunch of guys that got drunk |
demsrule4life |
Feb-24-04 06:10 PM |
#4 |
 -
The idea that Christianity is the result of some fratboy joke... |
teknomanzer |
Feb-24-04 08:19 PM |
#100 |
-
Beware religion |
Walt Starr |
Feb-24-04 08:30 PM |
#109 |
-
become your own priest then. (n/t) |
teknomanzer |
Feb-24-04 08:36 PM |
#115 |
-
I am my own priest |
Walt Starr |
Feb-24-04 08:43 PM |
#124 |
-
Me too |
teknomanzer |
Feb-24-04 09:42 PM |
#166 |
-
I am not a Christian |
ChiefJoseph |
Feb-24-04 06:12 PM |
#6 |
 -
Well, there was no Jesus of Nazareth. But that's just because |
Screaming Lord Byron |
Feb-24-04 06:14 PM |
#12 |
 -
Can you link us to some |
Dookus |
Feb-24-04 06:28 PM |
#37 |
 -
Bzzzzzsttt. |
einniv |
Feb-24-04 06:29 PM |
#39 |
 -
I have to call you on this... |
teknomanzer |
Feb-24-04 06:46 PM |
#51 |
 -
What is that evidence? |
knight_of_the_star |
Feb-24-04 07:51 PM |
#88 |
 -
There is NO "Historical Evidence" independent of the Xtian church |
stopbush |
Feb-24-04 09:25 PM |
#157 |
-
What makes you think myths aren't true? |
aquart |
Feb-24-04 06:12 PM |
#7 |
 -
Uh, how can a myth be true? That seems to be the penultimate oxymoron |
mike1963 |
Feb-24-04 06:16 PM |
#17 |
  -
All myths contain a kernel of truth... |
teknomanzer |
Feb-24-04 06:51 PM |
#56 |
 -
Elvis lives... |
I AM SPARTACUS |
Feb-24-04 06:51 PM |
#55 |
-
I recommend reading |
Book Lover |
Feb-24-04 06:13 PM |
#8 |
 -
I have the Passover Plot and have read it. You're right it sure is dry, |
mike1963 |
Feb-24-04 06:20 PM |
#24 |
-
Well, that's the nice thing about scholarship... |
Book Lover |
Feb-24-04 06:49 PM |
#53 |
-
I suppose I was trying to be a bit too clever. What I mean is this: |
mike1963 |
Feb-24-04 07:12 PM |
#70 |
-
Several problems with the bible |
LiberalFighter |
Feb-24-04 08:31 PM |
#110 |
-
Forgot this |
DennisReveni |
Feb-25-04 07:36 AM |
#182 |
-
What about that virgin birth thing? |
ezmojason |
Feb-24-04 06:13 PM |
#9 |
 -
No, I do NOT believe that! n/t |
mlawson |
Feb-24-04 06:15 PM |
#14 |
-
Surprise! I don't either |
Lydia Leftcoast |
Feb-24-04 09:05 PM |
#137 |
-
It's not hard to believe that the Romans would have |
mlawson |
Feb-24-04 06:14 PM |
#11 |
 -
There is no doubt in my mind... |
teknomanzer |
Feb-24-04 06:58 PM |
#59 |
-
Jerusalem, where the records would have been |
Lydia Leftcoast |
Feb-24-04 08:56 PM |
#131 |
-
I think it a myth also |
Marianne |
Feb-24-04 06:14 PM |
#13 |
-
Are there no more democratic Christians left? |
coloktm |
Feb-24-04 06:15 PM |
#16 |
 -
I thought I might be the last secularist. |
ezmojason |
Feb-24-04 06:17 PM |
#20 |
 -
Dingdingdingdingdingdingdingding! |
LoZoccolo |
Feb-24-04 06:19 PM |
#23 |
  -
Quicker than I thought, but there you go. |
Screaming Lord Byron |
Feb-24-04 06:20 PM |
#28 |
 -
This girl I met said that Lord Byron had this way of looking at women... |
LoZoccolo |
Feb-24-04 06:26 PM |
#34 |
 -
Well, It's not genetic. But my predecessor was 'mad, bad and |
Screaming Lord Byron |
Feb-24-04 06:29 PM |
# |
 -
Um, I did not use the word 'fundies' in my op. Please do not put words |
mike1963 |
Feb-24-04 06:23 PM |
#31 |
  -
So this time... |
coloktm |
Feb-24-04 06:26 PM |
#33 |
 -
Umm... they did herd goats. |
ezmojason |
Feb-24-04 06:29 PM |
#38 |
 -
How about "itinerant animal tenders"? Santa Claus is very important to |
mike1963 |
Feb-24-04 06:40 PM |
#48 |
 -
I agree with you on that |
Marianne |
Feb-24-04 06:27 PM |
#36 |
 -
ah, here you are again! |
wellstone_democrat |
Feb-24-04 06:38 PM |
#46 |
 -
I am a Catholic and find many Evangelical Christians offensive. |
alcuno |
Feb-24-04 06:45 PM |
#50 |
  -
Obviously they do believe in the teachings of Jesus |
Marianne |
Feb-24-04 07:01 PM |
#62 |
   -
That's the thing about Catholics. |
alcuno |
Feb-24-04 07:06 PM |
#66 |
  -
If that is so... |
teknomanzer |
Feb-24-04 08:31 PM |
#112 |
  -
Indulgences have been gone for a while now. |
alcuno |
Feb-24-04 09:04 PM |
#136 |
  -
I must have an older bible then... |
teknomanzer |
Feb-24-04 09:11 PM |
#142 |
  -
You are right. Although I think this refers mainly to prayer, not |
alcuno |
Feb-24-04 09:38 PM |
#163 |
  -
I do too-the Catholic Church may have its conservative wing |
RationalRose |
Feb-24-04 07:27 PM |
#79 |
  -
And I found it strange when I saw on DU that... |
LiberalFighter |
Feb-24-04 08:34 PM |
#113 |
 -
That is because we have not been "born again." |
alcuno |
Feb-24-04 09:10 PM |
#141 |
 -
Makes no sense to me either |
teknomanzer |
Feb-24-04 09:22 PM |
#154 |
 -
not all Christians are fundies |
pop goes the weasel |
Feb-24-04 07:29 PM |
#81 |
-
I never said that... |
teknomanzer |
Feb-24-04 10:09 PM |
#169 |
-
I don't have hard facts but there are historical records.. |
ChavezSpeakstheTruth |
Feb-24-04 06:16 PM |
#19 |
 -
I believe it happened and that he existed historically. I also believe |
roguevalley |
Feb-24-04 06:27 PM |
#35 |
  -
Please don't think that I'm a zealot.But, how can you survive crucifixion? |
ChavezSpeakstheTruth |
Feb-24-04 06:32 PM |
#40 |
 -
Crucifixion was more about torture than execution... |
teknomanzer |
Feb-24-04 07:16 PM |
#73 |
 -
You could get rescued by the Judean People's |
smirkymonkey |
Feb-24-04 07:54 PM |
#89 |
 -
I understand your point. I omitted reference the alleged 'resurrection' |
mike1963 |
Feb-24-04 06:33 PM |
#41 |
  -
I won't evangelize to anyone. Especially a DUer - a Friend no matter what |
ChavezSpeakstheTruth |
Feb-24-04 07:02 PM |
#63 |
   -
May I extend a bit of congratulation for properly spelling Gandhi. |
mike1963 |
Feb-24-04 09:31 PM |
#158 |
  -
Story of divine sacrifice make sense... |
teknomanzer |
Feb-24-04 07:23 PM |
#77 |
 -
"What are you really asking?" |
I AM SPARTACUS |
Feb-24-04 07:01 PM |
#61 |
  -
Are you kidding? I'm asking. if a historical figue was cricifird.. |
ChavezSpeakstheTruth |
Feb-24-04 07:08 PM |
#67 |
 -
No, I'm serious. |
I AM SPARTACUS |
Feb-24-04 07:11 PM |
#69 |
 -
i wonder why you ask this queston |
ChavezSpeakstheTruth |
Feb-24-04 07:24 PM |
#78 |
 -
"why" I ask - does that matter at all? |
I AM SPARTACUS |
Feb-24-04 07:29 PM |
#82 |
 -
Cite your sources for this statement. |
stopbush |
Feb-24-04 09:19 PM |
#149 |
-
Most doubters question the resurection not the crucifixion |
El Supremo |
Feb-24-04 06:18 PM |
#22 |
 -
Josephus mentions of Jesus in wrong ink 500 years younger |
mouse7 |
Feb-24-04 06:37 PM |
#43 |
 -
I ask again - how do you survive a Roman crucifixion? |
ChavezSpeakstheTruth |
Feb-24-04 06:38 PM |
#45 |
-
Xena, Warrior Princess, did. |
Bridget Burke |
Feb-24-04 06:50 PM |
#54 |
-
It's actually quite possible |
Dookus |
Feb-24-04 07:19 PM |
#74 |
-
Jesus! I didn't say he survived! |
El Supremo |
Feb-24-04 09:46 PM |
#167 |
-
I don't know if |
Jawja |
Feb-24-04 06:20 PM |
#25 |
-
I believe that a radical teacher named "Jesus" was crucified by |
maveric |
Feb-24-04 06:20 PM |
#27 |
-
That's why it is called faith. |
alcuno |
Feb-24-04 06:24 PM |
#32 |
 -
Why is faith good? |
Philosophy |
Feb-24-04 06:42 PM |
#49 |
-
I've seen no contrary evidence to the existence of God. |
alcuno |
Feb-24-04 06:52 PM |
#57 |
-
The person making the fantastic claim... |
teknomanzer |
Feb-24-04 07:28 PM |
#80 |
-
Sorry. I'm no bible-thumping Old Testament kind of Christian. |
alcuno |
Feb-24-04 08:00 PM |
#91 |
-
Not saying that you personally... |
teknomanzer |
Feb-24-04 08:55 PM |
#130 |
 -
Faith in God existed before anything was written down. |
alcuno |
Feb-24-04 09:24 PM |
#156 |
-
I would not lump all christians in the same group as fundamentalists... |
teknomanzer |
Feb-24-04 10:16 PM |
#172 |
-
But god separated the light and the darkness |
stopbush |
Feb-24-04 09:33 PM |
#159 |
-
This is why I stick to my official Catholic Bible. |
alcuno |
Feb-24-04 09:41 PM |
#165 |
-
Give Me Barabas |
orwell |
Feb-24-04 06:35 PM |
#42 |
-
At a time-depth of 2,000 years |
Lydia Leftcoast |
Feb-24-04 06:37 PM |
#44 |
 -
Some of the books in the Bible were written two hundred years... |
mac2 |
Feb-24-04 06:49 PM |
#52 |
  -
Most of the books of NT were written within 70 yrs |
megatherium |
Feb-24-04 07:32 PM |
# |
 -
It isn't a question of whether or not it is hard to believe. |
einniv |
Feb-24-04 07:05 PM |
#65 |
-
I think so too, but to say so often gets believers upset. |
Cleita |
Feb-24-04 07:00 PM |
#60 |
-
"Legend" is probably a better word than "myth" |
Bridget Burke |
Feb-24-04 07:03 PM |
#64 |
-
well |
Dookus |
Feb-24-04 07:10 PM |
#68 |
 -
Actually you're wrong |
ChavezSpeakstheTruth |
Feb-24-04 07:13 PM |
#72 |
-
then please |
Dookus |
Feb-24-04 07:19 PM |
#76 |
-
Listen, I could plug in 100 sites. im not that type |
ChavezSpeakstheTruth |
Feb-24-04 07:36 PM |
#86 |
-
"I'm not that type" |
Dookus |
Feb-24-04 07:43 PM |
#87 |
-
look here bud... |
teknomanzer |
Feb-24-04 09:53 PM |
#168 |
-
I don't care if there was an actual Jesus or if it was all allegorical... |
higher class |
Feb-24-04 07:19 PM |
#75 |
-
myth. |
Mari333 |
Feb-24-04 07:32 PM |
#83 |
-
i have yet to see any film that accurately depicts anything... |
rasputin1952 |
Feb-24-04 07:35 PM |
#84 |
-
Didn't Calvin Trillin get fired from Newsweek for his comment ... |
DemoTex |
Feb-24-04 07:35 PM |
#85 |
-
No, you are not the |
smirkymonkey |
Feb-24-04 08:05 PM |
#93 |
-
Most definitely a myth, IMO |
Walt Starr |
Feb-24-04 08:09 PM |
#94 |
 -
thanks Walt... |
teknomanzer |
Feb-24-04 10:24 PM |
#174 |
-
myth - ever hear of the albigensens (sp) |
HighTide |
Feb-24-04 08:17 PM |
#99 |
 -
Just call them Cathars, it's easier to spell. |
Screaming Lord Byron |
Feb-24-04 08:31 PM |
#111 |
-
Good spots to visit |
stopbush |
Feb-24-04 08:20 PM |
#101 |
-
He pissed the romans off |
Alex146 |
Feb-24-04 08:30 PM |
#108 |
 -
There was a point when the Romans were crucifying |
Walt Starr |
Feb-24-04 08:34 PM |
#114 |
-
Well I Don't Know About the Crucifixion |
Crisco |
Feb-24-04 08:41 PM |
#120 |
-
umm... the entire Jesus thing is just a myth |
cryofan |
Feb-24-04 08:49 PM |
#128 |
-
I do not think it is a myth |
arewethereyet |
Feb-24-04 08:49 PM |
#129 |
 -
I'm puzzled by the insistence of some |
Lydia Leftcoast |
Feb-24-04 09:12 PM |
#145 |
-
I hear you |
arewethereyet |
Feb-24-04 09:22 PM |
#153 |
-
how does the presence of Christians prove that there was a real... |
I AM SPARTACUS |
Feb-24-04 09:23 PM |
#155 |
-
I used to think the image of Jesus-as-guru was reasonable too |
starroute |
Feb-24-04 10:13 PM |
#171 |
-
Fine... |
teknomanzer |
Feb-24-04 10:29 PM |
#175 |
-
no, you're not. |
leftofthedial |
Feb-24-04 09:00 PM |
#133 |
 -
Sorry, there were Christians long before Constantine |
Lydia Leftcoast |
Feb-24-04 09:14 PM |
#146 |
-
none as we know them now. |
leftofthedial |
Feb-24-04 09:15 PM |
#147 |
-
Crucifiction theme in surrounding history |
Must_B_Free |
Feb-24-04 09:04 PM |
#135 |
 -
The myth of a dying/resurrected god appears time and again |
Walt Starr |
Feb-24-04 09:11 PM |
#143 |
-
more echoes of similarrity |
Must_B_Free |
Feb-24-04 09:20 PM |
#150 |
-
No you're not alone! Thank the gods I'm not alone either! |
BurtWorm |
Feb-24-04 10:11 PM |
#170 |
-
No, I believe it happened |
GreenPartyVoter |
Feb-24-04 10:20 PM |
#173 |
 -
questioning the historical accuracy |
Dookus |
Feb-25-04 01:38 AM |
#177 |
-
There is evidence he existed |
GreenPartyVoter |
Feb-25-04 07:09 AM |
#180 |
-
I suspect he was executed by crucifixion because it was the |
leesa |
Feb-24-04 10:58 PM |
#176 |
-
Personally, I think the whole Bible is a myth |
RebelOne |
Feb-25-04 06:04 AM |
#179 |
-
Locking |
Moderator |
Feb-25-04 07:38 AM |
#183 |