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Pithlet Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-14-04 05:36 PM
Response to Reply #49
61. No
Ending a life is ending a life. The motives are different.

"Does the state sometimes make mistakes? Yes. And that, it seems to me is the starting place for a discussion of the DP. But even when it makes a mistake, the state does just that -- it makes an error in concluding that someone is guilty. It at least endeavored to establish guilt. A murderer, by contrast, is totally unconcerned with anything like that." I'm sure that is comfort to the innocently executed person and their family.

I do agree that the innocent factor is the starting point for the discussion. And, IMO, you can't move beyond that. There is no way to absolutely guarantee that a person will not wrongly be executed because any system involving humans will have its flaw. Therefor, it HAS to be thrown out. It isn't worth the price of one innocent life to satisfy the state's need for vengeance.

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  -The death penalty does not work. It is not a deterrence. CatWoman  Jan-13-04 11:43 AM   #0 
  - Not to be ornery, but I doubt that conscience had anything to do with  bunnyj   Jan-13-04 11:47 AM   #1 
  - By keeping the death penalty, look at the fine company that puts us in....  The_Gopher   Jan-15-04 12:04 AM   #82 
  - You forgot Israel.  sirjwtheblack   Jan-16-04 09:52 AM   #120 
  - It is possible that doctor did not take his own life...  hlthe2b   Jan-16-04 10:23 AM   #129 
  - Execute white collar criminals  bluestateguy   Jan-13-04 11:50 AM   #2 
  - And the death penalty would absolutely DETER white-collar criminals and  Vitruvius   Jan-14-04 05:33 PM   #59 
  - My biggest, #1 problem with the death penalty  lazarus   Jan-13-04 12:05 PM   #3 
  - It's been proven over and over that the death penalty is no deterrent.  library_max   Jan-13-04 12:25 PM   #4 
  - Read the behaviorist literature...  afraid_of_the_dark   Jan-14-04 02:18 PM   #32 
  - Yep,and not one RICH person will ever sit in "old sparky" Never ever...eom  OneTwentyoFive   Jan-16-04 09:23 AM   #114 
  - Here is the problem with the death penalty:  funkyflathead   Jan-13-04 12:58 PM   #5 
  - Yeah, those pesky appeals  IAmJacksSmirkingRevenge   Jan-13-04 01:25 PM   #10 
  - But quick executions would violate the Bill of Rights  Don Claybrook   Jan-13-04 01:39 PM   #17 
  - Not necessarily  Muddleoftheroad   Jan-14-04 09:13 AM   #21 
     - Death as prevention?  Damndifino   Jan-14-04 02:00 PM   #28 
        - No, it doesn't. Because life does not really mean LIFE.  Silverhair   Jan-14-04 02:14 PM   #31 
        - Then it should  Damndifino   Jan-14-04 02:24 PM   #33 
        - Life does mean life under Federal jurisdiction  fed2dneck   Jan-14-04 09:06 PM   #64 
        - violence begets violence  OhioStateProgressive   Jan-14-04 02:24 PM   #34 
           - So are you willing for life to mean LIFE? N/T  Silverhair   Jan-14-04 03:18 PM   # 
              - yeah  OhioStateProgressive   Jan-14-04 03:22 PM   #40 
                 - Yes, it remains a good idea  Muddleoftheroad   Jan-14-04 03:34 PM   #42 
                 - which part of murder is wrong don't you understand?(nt)  OhioStateProgressive   Jan-14-04 03:47 PM   #44 
                 - Execution is not murder  Muddleoftheroad   Jan-14-04 04:30 PM   #47 
                    - execution is State Sponsored killing  OhioStateProgressive   Jan-14-04 05:17 PM   #56 
                       - Not all killing is murder  Muddleoftheroad   Jan-14-04 09:18 PM   #66 
                          - yes, all killing is murder  OhioStateProgressive   Jan-14-04 09:23 PM   #68 
                             - So, killing in war is murder?  Muddleoftheroad   Jan-14-04 09:31 PM   #70 
                                - i think all war is murder  OhioStateProgressive   Jan-14-04 09:54 PM   #71 
                                   - 'Nuff said  Muddleoftheroad   Jan-15-04 12:50 AM   #88 
                 - Either you support life, or you don't....  Th1onein   Jan-14-04 08:51 PM   #63 
                    - I support innocent life  Muddleoftheroad   Jan-14-04 09:20 PM   #67 
                       - Ever heard of solitary confinement?  Solomon   Jan-16-04 09:47 AM   #117 
                          - Ever hear  yagotme   Jan-16-04 10:42 AM   #134 
                             - And you still lived to tell the tale!!?  Solomon   Jan-16-04 10:50 AM   #135 
                 - Why?  outinforce   Jan-14-04 05:05 PM   #52 
                    - I do understand all of your points  OhioStateProgressive   Jan-14-04 05:16 PM   #54 
                       - And Why?  outinforce   Jan-14-04 05:19 PM   #57 
                          - this is why  OhioStateProgressive   Jan-14-04 06:50 PM   #62 
                          - I Still Do Not Understand  outinforce   Jan-15-04 11:24 AM   #92 
                             - fair question  OhioStateProgressive   Jan-15-04 02:31 PM   #100 
                                - Do You Consider....??  outinforce   Jan-15-04 03:27 PM   #104 
                                   - well  OhioStateProgressive   Jan-15-04 03:33 PM   #105 
                                      - I'm not sure I understand...  outinforce   Jan-15-04 03:46 PM   #109 
                                         - interesting reply  OhioStateProgressive   Jan-15-04 03:51 PM   #111 
                          - It's evil because it is not applied  Solomon   Jan-16-04 09:50 AM   #119 
        - No,  yagotme   Jan-16-04 10:32 AM   #131 
  - Oh boy...  Anaxamander   Jan-14-04 10:15 AM   #23 
  - But its about more than deterence...its also about revenge  HereSince1628   Jan-13-04 01:02 PM   #6 
  - Take a life, forfeit your own  funkyflathead   Jan-13-04 01:16 PM   #7 
     - So you want revenge, not justice  IAmJacksSmirkingRevenge   Jan-13-04 01:26 PM   #11 
     - Your a Dean supporter right?  funkyflathead   Jan-13-04 01:29 PM   #14 
        - Well, see  IAmJacksSmirkingRevenge   Jan-13-04 01:36 PM   #16 
     - Justice is a balance sometimes seen as weighing punishment  HereSince1628   Jan-13-04 01:32 PM   #15 
     - Here's one just as simple:  Anaxamander   Jan-14-04 03:18 PM   #39 
  - Has anyone ever thought  devinsgram   Jan-13-04 01:23 PM   #8 
  - Umm... Haven't thought about that.  no one in particular   Jan-13-04 01:26 PM   #12 
  - Karma? Really?  LeahMira   Jan-14-04 01:42 PM   #26 
  - Hmmmmmm.....  outinforce   Jan-15-04 11:32 AM   #93 
     - This statistic moves around quite a bit, so it doesn't mean  Solomon   Jan-16-04 09:58 AM   #121 
        - I Don't Disagree with You  outinforce   Jan-16-04 04:16 PM   #153 
  - I've been torn for some time on this  no one in particular   Jan-13-04 01:24 PM   #9 
  - I agree with you on the DP.  DrWeird   Jan-13-04 01:28 PM   #13 
  - yep  CatWoman   Jan-13-04 01:50 PM   #19 
  - I don't get it.  DrWeird   Jan-14-04 02:26 PM   #35 
     - I didn't know castration didn't work  CatWoman   Jan-14-04 05:35 PM   #60 
  - I believe that it's been tried without success.  library_max   Jan-14-04 08:57 AM   #20 
     - can you provide me some info on this?  CatWoman   Jan-14-04 02:08 PM   #30 
     - Y'know what?  library_max   Jan-16-04 09:18 AM   #113 
     - I have to agree...  Anaxamander   Jan-14-04 03:46 PM   #43 
        - While Ted Bundy at times did use foreign objects  CatWoman   Jan-16-04 01:17 PM   #142 
  - Many don't think they will get caught  terryg11   Jan-13-04 01:43 PM   #18 
  - I think...  deseo   Jan-14-04 09:28 AM   #22 
  - it does work, it stops murderers from murdering again  kodi   Jan-14-04 10:24 AM   #24 
  - It also stops falsely accused people from being falsely accused again.  library_max   Jan-14-04 01:23 PM   #25 
  - Oh please  Pithlet   Jan-14-04 02:34 PM   #36 
  - I've had a family member murdered.  DrWeird   Jan-14-04 02:39 PM   #37 
  - You could look at it this way.....  coolhand27   Jan-14-04 11:15 PM   #76 
  - Huh?  Sophree   Jan-14-04 02:45 PM   #38 
  - I'm sorry for your experience  ulysses   Jan-14-04 03:24 PM   #41 
  - Could You Explain?  outinforce   Jan-15-04 11:37 AM   #94 
  - State-sanctioned killing serves no purpose.  rezmutt   Jan-14-04 01:44 PM   #27 
  - This is what I think...  LeahMira   Jan-14-04 02:06 PM   #29 
  - Huh?  pnb   Jan-16-04 10:58 AM   #137 
  - In What Sense Does the DP Not "Workl"  outinforce   Jan-14-04 04:23 PM   #45 
  - Taking a human life is one of the worst crimes  Pithlet   Jan-14-04 04:29 PM   #46 
  - Allowing someone to murder is also wrong  Muddleoftheroad   Jan-14-04 04:33 PM   #48 
  - I'm not exactly an expert on the Bible.  DrWeird   Jan-14-04 04:48 PM   #50 
  - I'm No Expert Either  outinforce   Jan-14-04 05:17 PM   #55 
     - an excellent assessment  arewethereyet   Jan-14-04 10:12 PM   #73 
     - arewethereyet are you saying that life belongs to Caesar?  Solomon   Jan-16-04 10:14 AM   #126 
     - Oh, well, if you want to go by the Bible,  library_max   Jan-16-04 05:18 PM   #156 
  - You don't have to kill them to lessen that threat  Pithlet   Jan-14-04 05:28 PM   #58 
  - That is naive  Muddleoftheroad   Jan-14-04 09:23 PM   #69 
  - And it's extremely naive  Pithlet   Jan-14-04 10:00 PM   #72 
  - Innocents die either way  Muddleoftheroad   Jan-15-04 12:52 AM   #89 
     - That is our fundamental difference  Pithlet   Jan-15-04 02:06 PM   #98 
        - No system is perfect  Muddleoftheroad   Jan-15-04 02:41 PM   #101 
        - Don't presume  Pithlet   Jan-15-04 03:13 PM   #103 
        - One system works  Muddleoftheroad   Jan-15-04 03:37 PM   #107 
           - No, it doesn't  Pithlet   Jan-15-04 03:59 PM   #112 
              - My system  Muddleoftheroad   Jan-16-04 09:23 AM   #115 
                 - My way  Pithlet   Jan-16-04 12:54 PM   #139 
        - You have put american philosophy on its head.  Solomon   Jan-16-04 10:22 AM   #128 
        - Collateral damage...  yagotme   Jan-16-04 11:01 AM   #138 
  - And its also naive to believe that convicted murderers  Solomon   Jan-16-04 10:18 AM   #127 
  - An Argument I Understand!  outinforce   Jan-15-04 11:45 AM   #96 
     - Yes, that is my argument.  Pithlet   Jan-15-04 02:10 PM   #99 
        - Thanks. But What Are Your Thoughts Regarding.....??  outinforce   Jan-15-04 03:36 PM   #106 
           - I'm still against it  Pithlet   Jan-15-04 03:47 PM   #110 
           - Outinforce. Tell us how the killing of Ted Bundy makes us  Solomon   Jan-16-04 10:29 AM   #130 
              - I would like to attempt a response.....BUT  outinforce   Jan-16-04 04:33 PM   #155 
  - Muddle. Please please let us see some statistics.  Solomon   Jan-16-04 10:11 AM   #125 
  - Differences  outinforce   Jan-14-04 04:42 PM   #49 
     - No  Pithlet   Jan-14-04 05:36 PM   #61 
  - Best post of the thread!!!  coolhand27   Jan-14-04 11:17 PM   #77 
  - So, what do you think  Pithlet   Jan-14-04 11:23 PM   #79 
  - One out of seven  lazarus   Jan-15-04 12:59 AM   #90 
  - Outinforce. The flaw in your argument is that  Solomon   Jan-16-04 10:07 AM   #124 
  - I'm fine with the Death Penalty and would like to see it expanded  MrSlayer   Jan-14-04 04:58 PM   #51 
  - Are You Aware....  outinforce   Jan-14-04 05:08 PM   #53 
     - lets assume that this is true (and I'm not saying it's not)  arewethereyet   Jan-14-04 09:07 PM   #65 
     - Since You Invited Discussion, I will.....  outinforce   Jan-15-04 12:37 PM   #97 
     - To quote Perry Farrell.  MrSlayer   Jan-15-04 12:16 AM   # 
        - put them in general population and it doesn't take long  arewethereyet   Jan-15-04 12:17 AM   #85 
  - It is essential for plea bargaining.  DjTj   Jan-14-04 10:12 PM   #74 
  - Actually it would have been better  coolhand27   Jan-14-04 11:21 PM   #78 
  - Deterrence not main objective, but instead justice for victim's family  cryofan   Jan-14-04 11:09 PM   #75 
  - Catwoman is Correct.  David Zephyr   Jan-14-04 11:29 PM   #80 
  - The death penalty never was about deterrence it's about the power  LibertyorDeath   Jan-14-04 11:33 PM   #81 
  - Its also a racist institution  corporatewhore   Jan-15-04 12:08 AM   #83 
  - I believe that there have been more whites than black executed  arewethereyet   Jan-15-04 12:16 AM   #84 
     - I'm not sure about that.  Pithlet   Jan-15-04 12:19 AM   #86 
     - Check this out  corporatewhore   Jan-15-04 01:02 AM   #91 
     - What an idiotic thing to say.  Solomon   Jan-16-04 10:35 AM   #132 
  - It was never meant as a deterrent  Rex   Jan-15-04 12:26 AM   #87 
  - I agree.  F-5   Jan-15-04 11:42 AM   #95 
  - I don't care if it deters or not. but some folks deserve to have  okieinpain   Jan-15-04 02:44 PM   #102 
  - I agree.  TexasMexican   Jan-15-04 03:45 PM   #108 
  - Who decides which ones and  Solomon   Jan-16-04 10:36 AM   #133 
     - A Judge and a Jury  TexasMexican   Jan-16-04 03:02 PM   #143 
        - And what happens  Pithlet   Jan-16-04 03:07 PM   #144 
           - You pay the family some money for compensation and you go on.  TexasMexican   Jan-16-04 03:14 PM   #145 
              - Wow.  Pithlet   Jan-16-04 03:19 PM   #146 
                 - Depends on the level of innocence.  TexasMexican   Jan-16-04 03:49 PM   #147 
                    - Either they murdered someone or they didn't  Pithlet   Jan-16-04 03:57 PM   #148 
                    - No you dont see where I'm coming from.  TexasMexican   Jan-16-04 06:09 PM   #157 
                       - Nope. I pretty much read you right.  Pithlet   Jan-16-04 06:38 PM   #158 
                       - A little justice system 101 for you while we're at it.  Pithlet   Jan-16-04 06:40 PM   #159 
                    - My God man! Have you lost your marbles?  Solomon   Jan-16-04 03:57 PM   #149 
                    - Also  Pithlet   Jan-16-04 04:07 PM   #152 
  - not cost effective in NY it cost t$23 million per capital case  ElsewheresDaughter   Jan-16-04 09:35 AM   #116 
  - Expedited review  Muddleoftheroad   Jan-16-04 09:49 AM   #118 
     - oh sure! lets expedite the proceedure and raise the chances for ERROR!  ElsewheresDaughter   Jan-16-04 10:00 AM   #122 
        - You choose to misunderstand  Muddleoftheroad   Jan-16-04 10:06 AM   #123 
           - Who would you put on this panel?  Solomon   Jan-16-04 10:57 AM   #136 
           - Exactly.  Pithlet   Jan-16-04 01:02 PM   #141 
           - They're humans  Pithlet   Jan-16-04 12:58 PM   #140 
              - It's too flawed to support the penalty  Solomon   Jan-16-04 04:00 PM   #150 
                 - I think it is because  Pithlet   Jan-16-04 04:21 PM   #154 
  - It IS a deterrance  Fescue4u   Jan-16-04 04:00 PM   #151 
 

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