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Reply #15: I don't know if I agree with that assessment [View All]

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tom_paine Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-09-04 05:28 PM
Response to Reply #6
15. I don't know if I agree with that assessment
I still hold on to the idea that the Party-Loyal Right-Wing Sub-Media, having thoroughly looped what remains of the Formerly Free Press in their wake has created the "Republican Matrix" (as Tom Tomorrow calls it), which is deadly to those who believe it's lies.

Like the rest of the Empire's citizenry, Democratic Congresspersons are also surrounded by the Right-Wing Fantasy Bubble that spews out the TV at them. They have bad information and have fallen for sucker plays...just like we all (or almost all) did during the Last Days of the Old Republic when we sat on our asses watching that Imperial Roman Circus that was the Attempted Coup of 1998, convinced that everything was ok and the Old Republic was strong, instead of dying.

Plus, politics inevitably makes people conservative (not politically speaking, but the "cautious" definition of the word). I worked briefly in state-level politics and things must be truly bad to see Dean and the others saying what they are about the Busheviks. That is an incredible occurrance, in a political sense, if you think about it, for Dean to speak so directly.

Now, I am a moderate who comes down to the right of most DUers on many things. I do tend to differ from the other moderates in that I disagree that stifling ourselves with timid caution and becoming more conservative is the way to victory.

Having said that, I'm not sure the Democrats' confusion and dismissing of their base is all their fault (naturally it takes two to tango) but for the last 15-20 years the entirety of Corproate TV Pravda (and Raygun's artificially-produced "teflon" is proof that this is no overnight occurrance, but a long-term issue) has been telling them that this is exctly what they must do in order to win.

Then, along comes Clinton who does pretty much just that (to some degree, not completely), running as an Eisenhower Republican, a creature that has all but vanished in today's Empire, which validates the strategy.

My take on that was that Clinton adapted to successfully combat the symptoms, but the disease rolled merrily along, continuing to warp the fabric of American Sanity and changing mores and beliefs as swiftly as only psychoengineered propaganda with a Billion Dollar "Innoculation" Machine. So that, while Clinton's success was total, it was only temporary, tailored to a situation that was a frozen moment of mobile transition.

The situation has changed beyond all recognition. And in Clitnon's success lay the seeds of future troubles that are being discussed here.

That my take on it.
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  -how Nader wasn't wrong. ulysses  Jan-09-04 04:39 PM   #0 
  - I agree...  FDRrocks   Jan-09-04 04:41 PM   #1 
  - Corporate charters!  Rashind   Jan-09-04 04:45 PM   #2 
     - Without having a indepth knowledge of it...  FDRrocks   Jan-09-04 04:56 PM   #4 
  - He was also right when he said...  ShimokitaJer   Jan-09-04 04:50 PM   #3 
  - The DLC doesn't need to change.  ulysses   Jan-09-04 04:59 PM   #5 
  - That campaign gives me hope  ShimokitaJer   Jan-09-04 05:06 PM   #9 
  - heh.  ulysses   Jan-09-04 05:14 PM   #13 
  - nader is part of the problem  lastknowngood   Jan-09-04 05:07 PM   #10 
  - trace the problem back a few steps.  ulysses   Jan-09-04 05:13 PM   #12 
  - same tired old arguments...  mike_c   Jan-09-04 05:47 PM   #21 
  - only one problem  Terwilliger   Jan-09-04 06:40 PM   #38 
  - Hi lastknowngood!!  newyawker99   Jan-10-04 04:46 PM   #47 
  - have you read his words?  Ardee   Jan-10-04 05:01 PM   #48 
  - Although I support Dean I must give credit where it is due  tnlefty   Jan-09-04 05:39 PM   #19 
     - here, here.  ulysses   Jan-09-04 05:47 PM   #22 
  - THAT, sir, is the question  Terwilliger   Jan-09-04 05:00 PM   #6 
     - I think they're scared shitless, and as a result  ulysses   Jan-09-04 05:02 PM   #7 
     - I don't know if I agree with that assessment  tom_paine   Jan-09-04 05:28 PM   #15 
  - I agree with Nader on several issues but he does more harm than good  mot78   Jan-09-04 05:06 PM   #8 
  - participation in the democratic process  ulysses   Jan-09-04 05:08 PM   #11 
     - Splitting the Left during a time of crisis is harmful  tom_paine   Jan-09-04 05:37 PM   #18 
        - was 2000 a time of crisis?  ulysses   Jan-09-04 05:56 PM   #25 
  - Ralph Nader is dead right in his accusations.  denverbill   Jan-09-04 05:21 PM   #14 
  - was the method wrong for the time?  ulysses   Jan-09-04 05:36 PM   #17 
     - You might be right.  denverbill   Jan-09-04 05:54 PM   #24 
  - no no no  buddhamama   Jan-09-04 05:35 PM   #16 
  - I am ignorant and weak of mind, yes.  ulysses   Jan-09-04 05:41 PM   #20 
     - even the ignorant and weak of mind  buddhamama   Jan-09-04 05:53 PM   #23 
        - fear, and the recognition  ulysses   Jan-09-04 06:31 PM   #34 
  - Here is a quote tthat sums up my feelings  corporatewhore   Jan-09-04 06:01 PM   #26 
  - How does Kucinich fall into that?  jpgray   Jan-09-04 06:07 PM   #28 
     - Actually Kucinich is for IRV and election reform too  corporatewhore   Jan-09-04 06:09 PM   #29 
        - Me too. :-)  jpgray   Jan-09-04 06:12 PM   #30 
  - No, he was quite wrong about the sameness of the two parties  jpgray   Jan-09-04 06:06 PM   #27 
  - I like getting flowers and a hug first too...  mike_c   Jan-09-04 06:17 PM   #31 
  - Again, not true  jpgray   Jan-09-04 06:21 PM   #32 
  - you'll note that I didn't list that.  ulysses   Jan-09-04 06:26 PM   #33 
     - I would prefer not rolling over as well  jpgray   Jan-09-04 06:33 PM   #35 
        - no.  ulysses   Jan-09-04 06:40 PM   #37 
           - Well, there's always the chance the GOP will finish what it has started  jpgray   Jan-09-04 06:53 PM   #41 
              - I have no doubt that they'll try.  ulysses   Jan-09-04 07:02 PM   #42 
                 - Well, here's hoping we have a viable and willing opposition  jpgray   Jan-09-04 07:12 PM   #43 
                    - a detail  Iverson   Jan-10-04 05:59 AM   #46 
  - If Clark wins, Nader is back with a vengance  Printer70   Jan-09-04 06:37 PM   #36 
  - And if Dean wins Nader will be happy? Is that what you are saying?  NNN0LHI   Jan-09-04 06:45 PM   #39 
     - let's hear it for insightful analysis.  ulysses   Jan-09-04 06:51 PM   #40 
        - my bad for thinking we were about saving our country  lastknowngood   Jan-09-04 08:40 PM   #44 
  - I'm more worried about Nader being wrong in 2004...  Dr Fate   Jan-09-04 08:43 PM   #45 
 

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