You are viewing an obsolete version of the DU website which is no longer supported by the Administrators. Visit The New DU.
Democratic Underground Latest Greatest Lobby Journals Search Options Help Login

Reply #36: Actually, they CAN be their own source.... [View All]

Printer-friendly format Printer-friendly format
Printer-friendly format Email this thread to a friend
Printer-friendly format Bookmark this thread
This topic is archived.
Home » Discuss » Editorials & Other Articles Donate to DU
SDuderstadt Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-25-09 12:01 AM
Response to Reply #35
36. Actually, they CAN be their own source....
Edited on Sun Oct-25-09 12:37 AM by SDuderstadt
and I'm glad that you've brought this up. Whether you know it or not, you're engaging in a variation of "argumentum ignorantium", because you're essentially challenging me to disprove a claim that has failed to be proven in the first place. I'm also glad that you've admitted that you "don't know a damn thing about Prescott Bush", because that's how these rumors get started and take on a life of their own. I'm hardly blaming you for that.

The reason I say that ADL can be its own source in this instance goes back to the issue of whether the claim has ever been proven to begin with. I have a simple question: How, specifically, is the ADL supposed to prove that Prescott Bush was NOT "Hitler's banker" or even on the board of "Hitler's banker"? And, therein lies the problem, because you're basically asking them to prove a negative.

I have to admit that I have seen this stuff over the last few years and that, initially, I didn't know as much about the history of the Bush family before GHW. I did recall that, among other definitive books, I read "The Rise and Fall of the Third Reich" by William Shirer and "Hitler: A Study in Tyranny" by Alan Bullock. Those two books are generally considered to be among the most authoritative. Neither one of them says anything remotely like what I have been hearing about Prescott, which I confirmed by skimming the relevant sections.

From that point on, I figured that the best way to approach this is to start with the source of the claim about Prescott. And, that's where the problem starts, as I had also asked my best friend from undergraduate school who is the Political Science department head at a college and he dismissed it out of hand. So, where does this claim come from? Well, there was an article in the Guardian. I don't know about you, but I don't regard the Guardian as a necessarily trustworthy source. Now, where did the Guardian get it from? Bingo. They got it from John Buchanan and Stacy Michael from an article they co-authored for the New Hampshire Gazette. First of all, John Buchanan is certifiable and I would not rely on anything he says. But, don't take my word for it. Below is a link to the New Hampshire Gazette:

Notice anything missing? That's right. There's not a SINGLE source for their claims, other than some vague references to "federal documents".

So, I have a simple question. Who are you going to trust? Alan Bullock, William Shirer and the ADL? Or John Buchanan and Michael Stacy? I'll go with the former, at least until I can see some concrete evidence to the contrary.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
  -Minnesota judge: CIA probably misled panel he led on JFK assassination Algorem  Oct-23-09 11:50 AM   #0 
  - I am running out of tinfoil. nt  jaksavage   Oct-23-09 11:57 AM   #1 
  - Worse, most CTists don't realize that you've got to orient the tinfoil correctly  stopbush   Oct-23-09 12:17 PM   #2 
     - That might explain my headaches.  jaksavage   Oct-23-09 12:21 PM   #3 
     - CTists?  whathehell   Oct-23-09 12:23 PM   #4 
     - That's why you have to ground the tinfoil  Mopar151   Oct-23-09 12:30 PM   #5 
  - The CIA misled someone?  RaleighNCDUer   Oct-23-09 12:55 PM   #6 
  - DCI Stansfield Turner was unable to guarantee Agency compliance w/HSCA  MinM   Oct-27-09 01:22 PM   #97 
  - The Assassination Records Review Board (ARRB)  MinM   Oct-28-09 01:24 PM   #100 
  - Well, let us know when the big bombshell is ready.....  SDuderstadt   Oct-28-09 01:55 PM   #101 
     - ARRB docs show Media conspired with CIA to destroy Garrison investigation  MinM   Oct-28-09 02:58 PM   #102 
        - Well, that's interesting...  SDuderstadt   Oct-28-09 03:08 PM   #103 
           - post 10 items from your mountain of evidence against oswald  Algorem   Oct-28-09 03:18 PM   #104 
  - The Winnipeg Airport Incident  MinM   Nov-22-09 01:26 PM   #118 
  - Happy 86th to DCI #12  MinM   Dec-01-09 09:37 AM   #119 
  - "Case Closed" author Gerald Posner, inadvertently confirms his CIA ties...  MinM   Oct-30-09 11:50 AM   #111 
     - +1  Octafish   Oct-30-09 11:54 AM   #112 
     - "Hmmm. How would Gerald Posner get the private cell number of the brother of the so-called...  SDuderstadt   Oct-30-09 11:55 AM   #113 
     - BradBlog: Network's 'investigative correspondent' used 'electronic means' to connect with terrorists  MinM   Nov-12-09 08:55 AM   #116 
  - Ask Tunnheim whom he believes assassinated JFK and I'll bet he says....  SDuderstadt   Oct-23-09 01:04 PM   #7 
  - But the CIA still has nearly 300 documents about Joannides it won't reveal, citing "grave" national  RaleighNCDUer   Oct-23-09 01:37 PM   #8 
     - Please prove that  SDuderstadt   Oct-23-09 03:55 PM   #11 
        - Please prove Tunheim thought Oswald was the lone gunman.  Octafish   Oct-24-09 05:56 PM   #21 
           - See, you can't win on the facts, so you try to demonize anyone who...  SDuderstadt   Oct-24-09 08:57 PM   #26 
              - Dude,you didn't answer the question,dude.  Algorem   Oct-25-09 07:45 AM   #38 
              - He didn't ask a question...  SDuderstadt   Oct-25-09 09:03 AM   #41 
                 - Dude.Oh,dude.  Algorem   Oct-25-09 09:11 AM   #42 
                    - So, you're not really serious...  SDuderstadt   Oct-25-09 09:29 AM   #43 
                       - Dude.  Algorem   Oct-25-09 09:51 AM   #44 
                          - 46 years, dude..  SDuderstadt   Oct-25-09 10:00 AM   #45 
                             - Dude.Dude dude dude dude dude.  Algorem   Oct-25-09 10:18 AM   #46 
                                - Cat got your tongue, dude? n/t  SDuderstadt   Oct-25-09 10:25 AM   #47 
                                   - Dude,why did you post a photo of a smoking gun barrel in a murder  Algorem   Oct-25-09 11:17 AM   #48 
                                      - You're not very quick on the uptake, are you...  SDuderstadt   Oct-25-09 11:26 AM   #49 
                                         - Dude,I think you are funny,dude,I really do,dude.  Algorem   Oct-25-09 11:35 AM   #50 
                                         - Great...  SDuderstadt   Oct-25-09 11:48 AM   #51 
                                         - have you ever written anything of any length explaining your massive admiration of the Kennedys?  Algorem   Oct-29-09 02:26 PM   #105 
                                            - Dude...  SDuderstadt   Oct-29-09 02:46 PM   #106 
                                               - why didn't you post the smoking gun photo threat (again) along with your verbal threat, dude?  Algorem   Oct-29-09 02:53 PM   #107 
                                                  - That wasn't a threat, dude...  SDuderstadt   Oct-29-09 03:04 PM   #108 
                                                  - The word "disingenuous" comes to mind.  Algorem   Oct-29-09 03:10 PM   #109 
                                                  - Well, dude...  SDuderstadt   Oct-29-09 03:11 PM   #110 
              - Perhaps waiting for the release of said documents?  Deny and Shred   Oct-25-09 08:08 AM   #39 
              - I didn't say YOU didn't want the truth about Dallas to come out.  Octafish   Oct-25-09 12:57 PM   #54 
                 - Dude...  SDuderstadt   Oct-25-09 01:31 PM   #56 
                    - Henry J. Rybka -- The Secret Service Agent who asked: ''Why?''  Octafish   Oct-25-09 04:13 PM   #57 
                       - Dude....  SDuderstadt   Oct-25-09 05:42 PM   #58 
                          - The agents wouldn't have had any problem holding on at 11 mph.  Octafish   Oct-26-09 08:54 PM   #83 
                             - you honestly claim they drove...  SDuderstadt   Oct-26-09 08:58 PM   #84 
                                - No, 11. 2 mph past the Texas School Book Depository.  Octafish   Oct-26-09 10:16 PM   #90 
                                   - Okay, dude....  SDuderstadt   Oct-26-09 10:52 PM   #92 
                                      - Relevance? It shows Henry J. Rybka registering dismay when ordered off the bumper!  Octafish   Oct-30-09 12:47 PM   #114 
                                         - So, 46 years later, you're still flogging the same tired old CT chestnuts...  SDuderstadt   Oct-30-09 03:16 PM   #115 
  - Poppy got a HUGE promotion just after  Boxerfan   Oct-23-09 02:02 PM   #9 
  - Do you have proof of any of your claims?  SDuderstadt   Oct-23-09 03:57 PM   #12 
  - Of course the CIA is very open about their personnel records.  harkadog   Oct-24-09 10:20 PM   #29 
     - Yeah, dude...  SDuderstadt   Oct-24-09 10:28 PM   #31 
  - 'cuz Poppy had the dirt on everyone who mattered by then  UpInArms   Oct-24-09 06:40 PM   #23 
  - He's also the only person alive on 11/22/63 that doesn't  Doctor_J   Oct-26-09 09:45 AM   #59 
     - Please provide some proof of your rather silly claim that...  SDuderstadt   Oct-26-09 09:52 AM   #60 
  - The CIA likely wants to keep covered up...  AntiFascist   Oct-23-09 02:51 PM   #10 
  - The thing that amazes me is, the people who knew of this conflict of interest at the time,kept quite  Mr. Sparkle   Oct-23-09 04:09 PM   #13 
  - Read "Reclaiming History" and look at....  SDuderstadt   Oct-23-09 04:37 PM   #14 
     - You're asking JFK CTists to break their cardinal rule of ignoring any and every  stopbush   Oct-23-09 05:42 PM   #15 
     - Absolutely....  SDuderstadt   Oct-23-09 06:30 PM   #16 
     - Actually, the HSCA concluded that there was a conspiracy....  AntiFascist   Oct-26-09 04:01 PM   #61 
        - Can you please find those words in the HSCA report?  SDuderstadt   Oct-26-09 04:17 PM   #62 
           - The words were "probably as the result of a conspiracy"...  AntiFascist   Oct-26-09 04:32 PM   #63 
              - Really, dude?  SDuderstadt   Oct-26-09 04:34 PM   #64 
                 - The HSCA made more headway with the mafia connections....  AntiFascist   Oct-26-09 04:47 PM   #65 
                    - Simple question: do you believe Oswald was...  SDuderstadt   Oct-26-09 04:51 PM   #66 
                       - Simple questions for you: Do you believe the FBI? Do you believe the CIA?  Octafish   Oct-26-09 04:54 PM   #67 
                       - No, dude...  SDuderstadt   Oct-26-09 04:58 PM   #69 
                          - Right. That must be why FBI Agent James Hosty DESTROYED EVIDENCE -- A NOTE FROM OSWALD.  Octafish   Oct-26-09 09:08 PM   #85 
                             - Actually, dude...  SDuderstadt   Oct-26-09 09:21 PM   #86 
                                - You think Shanklin would destroy evidence concerning Oswald without Hoover's order to do so?  Octafish   Oct-26-09 10:18 PM   #91 
                                   - Yes....  SDuderstadt   Oct-26-09 10:54 PM   #93 
                       - He may have been "a" shooter....  AntiFascist   Oct-26-09 04:57 PM   #68 
                          - Oswald wasn't much of a marksman?  SDuderstadt   Oct-26-09 05:01 PM   #70 
                             - Much of the information is only now coming out in the open...  AntiFascist   Oct-26-09 05:07 PM   #71 
                                - It's just now coming out 46 years later?  SDuderstadt   Oct-26-09 05:10 PM   #72 
                                   - "You guys"? dude, I'm not paid to do this.....  AntiFascist   Oct-26-09 05:18 PM   #73 
                                      - WTF are you babbling about? n/t  SDuderstadt   Oct-26-09 05:19 PM   #74 
                                         - ...  AntiFascist   Oct-26-09 05:31 PM   #75 
                                            - Great....  SDuderstadt   Oct-26-09 05:36 PM   #76 
                                               - I don't really see the question of Oswald's guilt being the key question...  AntiFascist   Oct-26-09 05:53 PM   #77 
                                                  - Like I said before, dude....  SDuderstadt   Oct-26-09 05:55 PM   #78 
                                                     - You seem to be the one "knocking yourself out"...  AntiFascist   Oct-26-09 05:57 PM   #79 
                                                     - Just let us know when you've found one of these...  SDuderstadt   Oct-26-09 06:04 PM   #80 
                                                     - The first step is...  AntiFascist   Oct-26-09 08:05 PM   #81 
                                                     - Yes, I'm sure it's right around the corner....  SDuderstadt   Oct-26-09 08:20 PM   #82 
                                                     - Drip, drip, drip....  AntiFascist   Oct-26-09 09:26 PM   #87 
                                                     - Well, dude....  SDuderstadt   Oct-26-09 09:45 PM   #88 
                                                     - Dude, I just gave you corroborating evidence!  AntiFascist   Oct-26-09 10:00 PM   #89 
                                                     - I see....  SDuderstadt   Oct-26-09 10:55 PM   #94 
                                                     - As I said...  AntiFascist   Oct-27-09 12:58 AM   #95 
                                                     - Did you read all of Willcott's testimony...  SDuderstadt   Oct-27-09 09:30 AM   #96 
  - Ask Old Man Bush, he knows all about it...  santamargarita   Oct-23-09 08:04 PM   #17 
  - Really?  SDuderstadt   Oct-23-09 08:15 PM   #18 
     - prescott  thread-bear   Oct-23-09 09:36 PM   #19 
     - Then why does the ADL defend him?  SDuderstadt   Oct-23-09 10:15 PM   #20 
     - Ummm, what about the role played in sponsoring Hitler's rise to power?  AntiFascist   Oct-27-09 05:59 PM   #98 
     - As I have stated before, I don't find the Guardian particularly reliable....  SDuderstadt   Oct-27-09 07:39 PM   #99 
     - Deleted message  Name removed   Oct-24-09 06:46 PM   #24 
        - Your "sources" are a book by Webster Tarpley...  SDuderstadt   Oct-24-09 08:39 PM   #25 
           - You DO, of course, realize that Tarpley is a...  SDuderstadt   Oct-24-09 09:41 PM   #28 
           - What are the ADL's sources and research?  harkadog   Oct-24-09 10:25 PM   #30 
              - Do you even know what the Anti-Defamation league is? n/t  SDuderstadt   Oct-24-09 10:29 PM   #32 
                 - Yes I do and you didn't (couldn't) answer the question.  harkadog   Oct-24-09 10:39 PM   #33 
                    - I asked you if you even knew who they are....  SDuderstadt   Oct-24-09 10:44 PM   #34 
                       - No ones source is themselves.  harkadog   Oct-24-09 10:57 PM   #35 
                          - Actually, they CAN be their own source....  SDuderstadt   Oct-25-09 12:01 AM   #36 
  - Appoint a Special Prosecutor in the JFK-Joannides Matter  Octafish   Oct-24-09 06:12 PM   #22 
  - You link to the "Future of Freedom" Foundation...  SDuderstadt   Oct-24-09 09:04 PM   #27 
     - I see, you think it is ok when a judge says he was mislead.  Go2Peace   Oct-25-09 06:12 AM   #37 
     - Nice strawman....  SDuderstadt   Oct-25-09 08:53 AM   #40 
     - Sorry, he is a libertarian. The thing is, unlike many since 22 Nov 1963, he wants to see JUSTICE.  Octafish   Oct-25-09 12:16 PM   #52 
        - 46 years, dude..  SDuderstadt   Oct-25-09 12:22 PM   #53 
           - Deleted message  Name removed   Oct-25-09 01:29 PM   #55 
  - kick  yurbud   Nov-12-09 12:13 PM   #117 

Home » Discuss » Editorials & Other Articles Donate to DU

Powered by DCForum+ Version 1.1 Copyright 1997-2002
Software has been extensively modified by the DU administrators

Important Notices: By participating on this discussion board, visitors agree to abide by the rules outlined on our Rules page. Messages posted on the Democratic Underground Discussion Forums are the opinions of the individuals who post them, and do not necessarily represent the opinions of Democratic Underground, LLC.

Home  |  Discussion Forums  |  Journals |  Store  |  Donate

About DU  |  Contact Us  |  Privacy Policy

Got a message for Democratic Underground? Click here to send us a message.

© 2001 - 2011 Democratic Underground, LLC