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Reply #23: "JFK and the Unspeakable" will disabuse you of Weiner's disinformation. [View All]

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MinM Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-07-08 12:59 PM
Response to Reply #22
23. "JFK and the Unspeakable" will disabuse you of Weiner's disinformation.
As will this:

Tim Weiner's "history" of the CIA
I just finished listening on C-SPAN to Tim Weiner being interviewed by David Ignatius re his new book on the CIA. Weiner is remarkably misleading about the CIA's record, especially in relation to the Kennedys. This is not surprising, however, since Weiner has been a favored reporter of the CIA's for years now.

Weiner's point he most wants to convey is that -- far from being the "rogue elephant" that Frank Church called it -- the CIA has always been ultraresponsive to Presidents. But that is provable untrue.

I'm shocked he would open with a quote from Richard Helms, and then return to him on the subject of Kennedy's assassination, given Helms' willingness to lie under oath (he was charged with perjury for denying the CIA's role in the Chilean operations).

Let's look at how "responsive" the CIA has been to the president over the years:

Truman wanted an information agency. The CIA essentially blackmailed itself into existence (see CIA officer Miles Copeland's veiled account of this in his book "The Real CIA.") So right off the bat, the CIA was doing something Truman didn't want. After Kennedy's assassination, Truman wrote a letter that was published in the Washington Post, in which he stated:

I never had any thought that when I set up the CIA that it would be injected into peacetime cloak and dagger operations. Some of the complications and embarrassment I think we have experienced are in part attributable to the fact that this quiet intelligence arm of the President has been so removed from its intended role that it is being interpreted as a symbol of sinister and mysterious foreign intrigue-and a subject for cold war enemy propaganda.

With all the nonsense put out by Communist propaganda ... the last thing we needed was for the CIA to be seized upon as something akin to a subverting influence in the affairs of other people
. ...

The CIA was clearly not created to serve only the President. It was created to serve the interests of Wall Street, and if you follow their pattern of covert action around the globe, you'll see who benefitted. The Guatemalan coup in 1954 benefitted the United Fruit Company. The Iranian coup in the early fifties benefitted the oil barons (access to oil was listed as the first explicit goal of the coup in the summary of that operation.) The CIA was created from the OSS, itself a creation not of the government so much as of Wall Street. The top officers all came from children of lawyers, bankers, and other money men. The OSS's nickname was "Oh So Social" due to its high profile roster.

The CIA has often run an agenda counter to what the president wished. This is easy to document in the Kennedy administration - they were at odds at nearly every turn. But it wasn't only the Kennedy adminstration that had difficulty with the CIA.

Under the Eisenhower administration, for example, Eisenhower was set to meet with Khrushchev to discuss a mutual reduction in arms. The CIA didn't want to see any such accommodation. So in express defiance of Eisenhower's request that no such flights be made, the CIA flew the U2 over the Soviet Union. As the "official" story goes, the Soviets shot it down. As people close to those events have said in print and elsewhere, there's good evidence that the flight was deliberately sabotaged by the CIA so that it would crash over the Soviet Union, preventing a peace treaty. Even CIA director Allen Dulles stated the plane was not shot down. As Dulles testified to the Senate Foreign Relations Committee on May 31, 1960:

"We believe that it was not shot down at its operating altitude of around 70,000 feet by the Russians. We believe that it was initially forced down to a much lower altitude by some as yet undetermined mechanical malfunction." ? "It is obvious to us that the plane was not hit. If the plane had been hit by a ground-to-air missile, in our belief, it would have disintegrated."

While Eisenhower later claimed responsibility for the overflight, the evidence is strong that he was surprised, and upset, that the CIA would risk upsetting the all-important peace conference. I believe that incident is part of the reason Eisenhower gave us that famous warning as he prepared to leave office...

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  -JFK and the Unspeakable: Why He Died and Why It Matters (Hardcover) by James W. Douglass Joanne98  Jul-05-08 02:26 PM   #0 
  - K&R, and bookmarked. nt  speedoo   Jul-05-08 02:33 PM   #1 
  - This is why who Obama picks as his VP is SO important!  calipendence   Jul-05-08 02:51 PM   #2 
  - I'm almost finished with Chapter One, and  Mme. Defarge   Jul-05-08 03:35 PM   #3 
  - Interesting thesis  indepat   Jul-05-08 03:55 PM   #4 
  - thanks....  gblady   Jul-05-08 04:41 PM   #5 
  - I have read numerous books on the assassination. This is  harrison   Jul-05-08 04:47 PM   #6 
  - Re: JFK and the Unspeakable: Why He Died and Why It Matters  MinM   Jul-05-08 05:43 PM   #7 
  - James DiEugenio's review (audio)  MinM   Jul-06-08 01:30 PM   #15 
  - interesting.  sweets   Jul-05-08 05:44 PM   #8 
  - There's a blurry  BecauseBushSaysSo   Jul-06-08 02:53 PM   #17 
  - ... and there's "Badge Man" in the Grassy Knoll ...  Myrina   Jul-06-08 05:16 PM   #18 
  - Corresponding to the indications of .....  defendandprotect   Jul-08-08 12:33 AM   #27 
  - I like this book a lot  TheCentepedeShoes   Jul-05-08 06:01 PM   #9 
  - Prouty is great . . .  defendandprotect   Jul-08-08 12:49 AM   #29 
     - Great recommendations! Have you read this one?  robertpaulsen   Jul-08-08 01:03 PM   #37 
        - Yes . . .  defendandprotect   Jul-08-08 01:17 PM   #38 
           - I remember Sprague.  robertpaulsen   Jul-08-08 02:13 PM   #40 
  - Kick Thanks  Twist_U_Up   Jul-05-08 08:03 PM   #10 
  - K&R thanks for the heads-up  Pooka Fey   Jul-06-08 06:11 AM   #11 
  - "...could not tolerate the possibility of peace."  liberalla   Jul-06-08 08:27 AM   #12 
  - God, that just turns my stomach  ailsagirl   Jul-07-08 06:33 PM   #26 
  - I wish more people understood this despicable and astonishing truth . . . !!!  defendandprotect   Jul-08-08 12:59 AM   #30 
  - K&R - Remember Ike's parting words ...  Myrina   Jul-06-08 12:41 PM   #13 
  - That seems to have been a direct response to the U-2 Spy Plane...  MinM   Jul-06-08 01:08 PM   #14 
     - The people who favor ripping up peace treaties and anti-nuke agreements are in office now . . .  defendandprotect   Jul-08-08 01:06 AM   #31 
  - I saw a documentary a year or so ago....  DCKit   Jul-06-08 02:49 PM   #16 
  - Did Eisenhower know?  Baby Snooks   Jul-06-08 07:01 PM   #19 
  - I think Ike knew . . . they say that many people in DC that night were whispering the names . . . .  defendandprotect   Jul-08-08 01:15 AM   #32 
  - despite Church Committee and Iran Contra hearings, Democrats always act as if this stuff doesn't...  yurbud   Jul-07-08 02:04 AM   #20 
  - Americans have to more widely recognize the FEAR/VIOLENCE connections . . .  defendandprotect   Jul-08-08 01:17 AM   #33 
     - those who govern with fear use violence on us to reinforce fear  yurbud   Jul-08-08 05:54 PM   #41 
  - The signing of Executive Order 11110 got Kennedy killed  mrone2   Jul-07-08 07:45 AM   #21 
  - I'm reading the history of the CIA (by Weiner). The book claims that LBJ said on a number  groovedaddy   Jul-07-08 12:10 PM   #22 
  - "JFK and the Unspeakable" will disabuse you of Weiner's disinformation.  MinM   Jul-07-08 12:59 PM   #23 
  - Not sure about Weiner himself, but that's not my read of his book so far:  groovedaddy   Jul-07-08 01:09 PM   #24 
  - Re: the Diem Assassination  MinM   Jul-07-08 02:19 PM   #25 
     - I believe this coup took place about two weeks before the assassination . . .  defendandprotect   Jul-08-08 01:27 AM   #35 
  - Under Operation Paperclip . . . Post-WWII ... Dulles used NAZIS in setting up the CIA and  defendandprotect   Jul-08-08 01:24 AM   #34 
     - Jim Marrs has a new book  TheCentepedeShoes   Jul-09-08 07:00 PM   #45 
  - Remember that E. Howard Hunt, as a "plumber" in the White House . . .  defendandprotect   Jul-08-08 12:44 AM   #28 
     - Mike Ruppert's CROSSING THE RUBICON has a chilling, simple explanation for why that happens  yurbud   Jul-08-08 05:56 PM   #42 
        - I heard it put another way . . .  defendandprotect   Jul-08-08 09:00 PM   #43 
  - People want peace . is the few among us who want wars and violence . . .  defendandprotect   Jul-08-08 01:30 AM   #36 
  - Push . . .  defendandprotect   Jul-08-08 01:20 PM   #39 
  - Sounds like a fascinating read.  govegan   Jul-08-08 10:46 PM   #44 

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