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Reply #46: You can apply Lakeoff's lessons in language, and i bet you do. I bet [View All]

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John Q. Citizen Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-26-06 08:55 AM
Response to Reply #44
46. You can apply Lakeoff's lessons in language, and i bet you do. I bet
you say "election fraud" instead of "voter fraud." If I'm right in my bet, then you do enbrace what Lakeoff is saying about framing an issue.

Just because Lakeoff writes about the tendencies of some progressives to attribute incompetence to the problems created by the bush administrations instead of blaming a conservative agenda, is no reason to throw the baby out with the bath water.

For instance, your use of the phrase "democracy is broken in this country," isn't very effective to bringing about the changes I assume you might want.

I would switch to saying "our election process is broken."

For one thing, the US is not now, nor ever has been a democracy. So the fact that something that never existed is broken doesn't worry me too much.

Second, democracy, which doesn't now and has never existed here, isn't a thing which can be broken, it's an idea, a concept. So how does an idea or concept become broken?

I do feel our election process is broken and has been for a long time. It is just more broken now with the advent of computerized vote casting and tabulation. However, the fact that 95% percent of the time the candidate spending the most money wins office (and has for years) is disturbing also. That points to the electorial process as being broken for a long time. The fact that we are statutorily limited essentially to 2 parties is also anti democratic, it's a form of intentionally limiting democracy. And gerrymandering is anti democracy.

So my advice is to learn from Lakeoff instead of attacking him because he dared to write about a subject which isn't your number 1 issue.

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  -Bush Is Not Incompetent John Q. Citizen  Dec-24-06 01:17 AM   #0 
  - essential read . . . kicked and recommended . . . n/t  OneBlueSky   Dec-24-06 01:34 AM   #1 
  - Okay, but he's still an evil megalomaniac.  Contrite   Dec-24-06 01:38 AM   #2 
  - Yes, many are afraid to face the truth. And a lot of that is the incessant framing  John Q. Citizen   Dec-24-06 10:33 AM   #15 
     - Conservative = Republican  StClone   Dec-24-06 11:13 PM   #39 
  - K & R.  StarTurtle   Dec-24-06 01:39 AM   #3 
  - An excellent cogent article.  Hope2006   Dec-24-06 01:50 AM   #4 
  - Done! And thanks for the suggestion. n/t  John Q. Citizen   Dec-24-06 10:34 AM   #16 
  - emphatic yes. ty. eom  nofurylike   Dec-24-06 02:02 AM   #5 
  - k/r  Fridays Child   Dec-24-06 02:11 AM   #6 
  - K&R'd to the greatest, happy to give you five.  Higans   Dec-24-06 02:14 AM   #7 
  - Why does Lakoff reinforce the myth that this radicalism is actually conservatism?  GuvWurld   Dec-24-06 02:36 AM   #8 
  - This is what passes for conservatism these days.  smoogatz   Dec-24-06 10:16 AM   #13 
  - I think the use of the terms conservative and liberal  thingfisher   Dec-24-06 12:40 PM   #26 
  - Very interesting article in this month's Harper's  smoogatz   Dec-24-06 01:40 PM   #27 
  - Barry would have ended social security in a heart beat, if he could have. n/t  John Q. Citizen   Dec-25-06 04:44 AM   #42 
  - OK, but let's talk about Lakoff.  GuvWurld   Dec-24-06 08:14 PM   #35 
     - Why should we be  John Q. Citizen   Dec-25-06 05:03 AM   #43 
        - let's take a closer look at how we define framing  GuvWurld   Dec-25-06 03:14 PM   #45 
  - Because what we have now is radical conservatism, to answer your  John Q. Citizen   Dec-24-06 10:52 AM   #17 
     - please see #35 above, it is in response to you too (eom)  GuvWurld   Dec-24-06 08:16 PM   #36 
  - Thanks! Check out the "list" in this DU thread >  Dover   Dec-24-06 02:37 AM   #9 
  - Wow, those are some lists.  John Q. Citizen   Dec-24-06 11:01 AM   #18 
  - Spot on...a couple of earlier postings re "incompetence"  tiptoe   Dec-24-06 02:44 AM   #10 
  - One more old thread on Iraq's controlled chaos:  Dover   Dec-24-06 02:53 AM   #11 
  - I agree, very competent in getting money and power for themselves.  cassiepriam   Dec-24-06 05:50 AM   #12 
  - Exactly right.  smoogatz   Dec-24-06 10:24 AM   #14 
  - Perhaps time after time, fraudulent election systems have cheated America of its true choices? nt  tiptoe   Dec-24-06 11:06 AM   #19 
  - It's hard to make that claim for '80, '84, '88  smoogatz   Dec-24-06 12:02 PM   #22 
  - The authors of the OP article are part of a progressive think tank whose focus  John Q. Citizen   Dec-24-06 12:20 PM   #23 
     - Thanks--  smoogatz   Dec-24-06 12:29 PM   #24 
  - I just read pabgeneris's post about suing the "other"  tblue37   Dec-24-06 11:09 AM   #20 
  - "(We invite the free distribution of this piece)" - bolded, after "(c) The Rockridge Institute"  tiptoe   Dec-24-06 11:36 AM   #21 
     - I bolded that release myself, so that the mods would see it and not remove the  John Q. Citizen   Dec-24-06 12:30 PM   #25 
     - I missed that. Thanks. (eom)  tblue37   Dec-24-06 05:47 PM   #32 
  - marking this for a later read...  progressoid   Dec-24-06 01:45 PM   #28 
  - This was accomplished with immense corporate support from organizations like ALEC  Dover   Dec-24-06 03:55 PM   #29 
  - Sooo, what you seem to be saying is that * has been a very effective  ooglymoogly   Dec-24-06 03:57 PM   #30 
  - A truly great perspective.  Kurovski   Dec-24-06 05:44 PM   #31 
  - "Winning re-election"? had me going up to that one....  The Count   Dec-24-06 06:52 PM   #33 
  - So are you saying bush is incompetent because he lost the election yet  John Q. Citizen   Dec-25-06 02:10 AM   #40 
     - I am saying Lackoff lacks the awareness of a fundamental fact: democracy is  The Count   Dec-25-06 07:53 AM   #44 
        - You can apply Lakeoff's lessons in language, and i bet you do. I bet  John Q. Citizen   Dec-26-06 08:55 AM   #46 
  - The article could not be more wrong.  neuvocat   Dec-24-06 07:25 PM   #34 
  - If he's incompetent, then how was he able to use conservatism to forward  John Q. Citizen   Dec-25-06 02:27 AM   #41 
  - I have always thought this...  Lucky Luciano   Dec-24-06 09:24 PM   #37 
  - OH HORSESHIT  Skittles   Dec-24-06 11:04 PM   #38 
  - Thank you!  EstimatedProphet   Dec-27-06 07:35 PM   #47 

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