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Reply #43: VERY impressive work you've done on this! [View All]

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vickitulsa Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-03-06 07:17 PM
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43. VERY impressive work you've done on this!
I really appreciate it, Kainah, and I hope more DUers find this thread and then read the others in this series as well. I just finished Part I and will read Part II shortly.

I didn't catch those when you posted them -- you know how fast any thread can drop if it's not propelled to the Greatest page! On busy days for me, I often check the Greatest page only, as I did today, and this time found your gem.

I was 19 in May 1970, about the same age as most of the students and guardsmen. I was going through my own personal hell at that time, having recently allowed relatives to adopt my infant daughter born "out of wedlock" as we used to say it back then. Her biodad was a soldier who shipped out for Vietnam before either of us knew I was pregnant.

Whenever the subject of the Kent State student shootings comes up, I usually say something about how that was one of the most horrible in a long string of horrible events going down in those times. Way down here in Oklahoma where demonstrations of any kind were few and far between, the shock reverberated among young people in particular, though I'm sure many older folk were stunned as well.

My father was a WWII combat veteran and a career State Trooper on the Oklahoma Highway Patrol, and he had a very bad attitude about protesters, student or otherwise. He was abusive to his entire family, but especially to me, and he and I never got along. But during those times the anger in our home shot up to peak levels. The Vietnam War was a national nightmare that had almost everyone in America upset and anxious.

To those too young to remember it, you can only begin to see right now in this country anything remotely like the sort of rancor and protest that revolved around not only Vietnam but also other social issues -- primarily Civil Rights and the hippie/drug/"free love" movement.

The Sharon Tate murders by Charles Manson and his gang took place in August of 1969, and the craziness during the run-up to their trial in 1970 had a lot of people confused and just plain scared. The Black Panther Party was in the news a lot -- as much because of the outright violent persecution of its members by J. Edgar Hoover's FBI as for their own (often worthwhile) activities. The Watts riots in 1965 in Los Angeles heralded more than 200 major racial equality riots in U.S. cities from 1967 to 1969. The "blended" protest (anti-war and civil rights) in Chicago during the 1968 Democratic Convention was widely televised and added to the nervousness Americans felt -- and launched the most heated of all the fights my dad and I had.

Most anti-Vietnam-War demonstrations in those days were peaceful; but emotions were running high for good reason, and there was a strong upwelling of loud, determined protest which bordered on violence and sometimes broke over into outright violent attacks by both protesters and law enforcement.

To many, it seemed as if our whole country had gone stark raving insane.

No one knew in 1970 that Nixon would engineer his own downfall (via the Watergate coverup scandal), but many of us recognized the madness in that pResident even before he ordered the bombings in Cambodia. I don't doubt for one minute that the Kent State shootings were the eventual outcome of one of those Nixonian "horror stories" AG John Mitchell referred to (quoted in your Part I, Kainah).

And while I agree with your fact #2 in Part I saying that students became a lot quieter after that day at Kent State, I know that anti-war protests went on -- and possibly in many cases were renewed with a vengeance, to prove that we were not going to be intimidated into giving up!

Indeed, many college students across the country were so outraged by the Kent State killings that they mounted very public memorials to the students slaughtered and continued the anti-war protest movement boldly. Here's just one example, taken from the history of Colby College in Maine:

"By 1970, community indignation over the war reached new heights, and creative expression also pushed out in new directions. Over 400 Colby students marched through the streets of downtown Waterville on May 6, 1970, in memory of the four students killed at Kent State by the Ohio National Guard just days before and of the lives lost in the U.S. invasion of Cambodia.

This march galvanized a sizable segment of the campus: classes were canceled for the day, and roughly 40% of the student body actively participated in the activities. Students gathered on the lawn of Miller Library at 11 a.m. to lower the U.S. flag in remembrance of the four Kent State victims; later, at 2 p.m., they marched through Waterville and deposited four mock coffins on lawn of the downtown Post Office. Forty students also began a sit-in of Colby's ROTC Office on this day, which ended two days later on Friday, May 8."


I know my own outrage over Kent State propelled me out into the streets to protest -- which meant I couldn't go home again for some time due to my dad's rejection of my activities. I do remember I wasn't out there alone! :)

I think the times we're living in right now are evoking memories in many of us of those days that were so long ago but seem like only yesterday in some ways. "The Times They Are A-Changing" once again ... and I'm glad to see it happening. It's a perfect time for this series of Kent State articles to appear, Kainah, and I extend my personal thanks to you for doing this.


"Come senators, congressmen
Please heed the call
Don't stand in the doorway
Don't block up the hall
For he that gets hurt
Will be he who has stalled
There's a battle outside
And it is ragin'.
It'll soon shake your windows
And rattle your walls
For the times they are a-changin'."

(From "The Times They Are A-Changin'" by Bob Dylan, released eight times from 1964 to 2000.)

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  -"They Just Started Shooting Us Down" -- Kent State kainah  May-03-06 03:06 PM   #0 
  - Those "twenty-eight Ohio National Guardsmen" are PIGS...  AX10   May-03-06 03:07 PM   #1 
  - Ohio nat.guard  spag68   May-03-06 03:16 PM   #3 
     - I am in sympathy with the NG, but not with the OIC.  flamin lib   May-03-06 03:23 PM   #5 
     - What the fuck??!!  LoZoccolo   May-03-06 04:01 PM   #18 
        - I don't know your history or experience but being in a situation like  flamin lib   May-03-06 04:34 PM   #23 
           - can't agree with you on this  kainah   May-03-06 04:41 PM   #24 
           - no one was killed in a dorm  kainah   May-03-06 04:45 PM   #25 
           - On reflection you are right--no deaths is dorms.  flamin lib   May-03-06 05:03 PM   #31 
           - I know Joe Lewis personally  Steve_DeShazer   May-03-06 07:37 PM   #44 
           - Giving the Finger Does Not Justify Shooting & Killing  AuntiBush   May-04-06 08:55 AM   #57 
           - I've been in one and cops on cycles just started to 'mow us over'  katty   May-03-06 06:45 PM   #42 
           - Bull,They had a personal vendetta,They took aim at at least two of them.  DianaForRussFeingold   May-04-06 04:48 PM   #68 
     - They were murdering bastards  DELUSIONAL   May-03-06 03:30 PM   #6 
     - No effort was made to make the murdering bastards pay  kainah   May-03-06 03:47 PM   #12 
     - agree in part and disagree in part  kainah   May-03-06 03:44 PM   #11 
     - Actually, they were fascists and pigs.  LoZoccolo   May-03-06 03:53 PM   #14 
     - If you are going to be "shitting in your pants" then.....  AX10   May-03-06 05:48 PM   #36 
     - Thanks for that Tidbit  AuntiBush   May-04-06 08:53 AM   #56 
  - K&R - Thank you for posting this!  Cooley Hurd   May-03-06 03:09 PM   #2 
  - I was stationed in Ft Lee, VA at the time and assigned to a  flamin lib   May-03-06 03:19 PM   #4 
  - weekend warriors' blood would have mixed  kainah   May-03-06 03:52 PM   #13 
  - No, I mean that the BFD would probably defended the students.  flamin lib   May-03-06 04:21 PM   #21 
     - thanks for the explanation n/t  kainah   May-03-06 04:47 PM   #26 
     - How would the BFD have stopped the National Guard from...  AX10   May-03-06 05:50 PM   #37 
        - If BFD was on site the OIC would have been in command.  flamin lib   May-03-06 06:14 PM   #38 
           - Thank you for the explanation.  AX10   May-03-06 06:23 PM   #40 
  - There were soldiers who were angry about the shooting?  AX10   May-03-06 05:46 PM   #35 
  - Yeah. Soldiers were angry The military isn't a monolithic entity.  flamin lib   May-03-06 06:31 PM   #41 
  - Tienanmen Square was similar to our Bonus March of 1932  EVDebs   May-04-06 09:52 AM   #59 
  - IMHO it was the decisive squirmish of the Vietnam War.  HereSince1628   May-03-06 03:30 PM   #7 
  - I was a kid and remember that day.  Sequoia   May-03-06 03:30 PM   #8 
  - A terrible day on a campus where I'd spent much time. Students  sinkingfeeling   May-03-06 03:35 PM   #9 
  - I also saw that about SDS  kainah   May-03-06 03:54 PM   #15 
  - I just gave you the 5th vote.  Sequoia   May-03-06 03:42 PM   #10 
  - thanks  kainah   May-03-06 03:57 PM   #16 
     - I read your thread  jbnow   May-03-06 09:57 PM   #47 
        - isn't really any explanation  kainah   May-04-06 01:13 AM   #51 
  - The murders at Kent State and Jackson State effectively shut down  T Wolf   May-03-06 03:59 PM   #17 
  - exactly right  kainah   May-03-06 04:51 PM   #27 
  - wrong  annabanana   May-04-06 05:24 AM   #53 
  - Tanks for the memories  tech3149   May-03-06 04:04 PM   #19 
  - My Kent State Page  lfairban   May-03-06 04:21 PM   #20 
  - I'm sure they still have the vigil  kainah   May-03-06 04:55 PM   #29 
  - Wow. This is an amazing post.  RandomKoolzip   May-03-06 04:30 PM   #22 
  - thanks  kainah   May-03-06 04:56 PM   #30 
  - What's the difference  edwardlindy   May-03-06 04:54 PM   #28 
  - Being Born A Boomer Hasn't Been All Beer and Skittles  Demeter   May-03-06 05:11 PM   #32 
  - I always heard they were "fatigued"  TorchesAndPitchforks   May-03-06 05:40 PM   #33 
  - yes  kainah   May-03-06 06:23 PM   #39 
  - Another K&R.  flamin lib   May-03-06 05:41 PM   #34 
  - VERY impressive work you've done on this!  vickitulsa   May-03-06 07:17 PM   #43 
  - Thanks, VickiTulsa for this  kainah   May-03-06 08:36 PM   #45 
     - Eerie parallel in my life to your mother's comment.  vickitulsa   May-03-06 10:39 PM   #49 
  - Wow, great post....... I was a senior in college and just got reclassified  RedEarth   May-03-06 09:43 PM   #46 
  - Incredible post! Fascinating...  Iowa   May-03-06 10:14 PM   #48 
  - my attitude toward the National Guard  kainah   May-04-06 01:26 AM   #52 
  - Thank you for doing this, for those of us who will never forget & those...  uppityperson   May-04-06 12:12 AM   #50 
  - It was a turning point in my life  ktlyon   May-04-06 06:59 AM   #54 
  - Sixty-Seven Rounds - Shew.  AuntiBush   May-04-06 08:44 AM   #55 
  - sit and wait for 13 seconds  kainah   May-04-06 12:55 PM   #60 
  - Moderator, related link, please merge ?  EVDebs   May-04-06 09:48 AM   #58 
  - at the very least  kainah   May-04-06 12:58 PM   #61 
  - I hope you're writing a book about this.  arikara   May-04-06 01:48 PM   #62 
  - a book  kainah   May-04-06 02:45 PM   #64 
  - From The Boston Globe  chonce   May-04-06 02:33 PM   #63 
  - Greg Payne  kainah   May-04-06 02:48 PM   #65 
     - J Gregory Payne  chonce   May-04-06 04:09 PM   #66 
        - thanks!  kainah   May-04-06 04:26 PM   #67 
  - Thanks, kainah, for these threads. Question - what book (or books)  kath   May-05-06 12:09 AM   #69 
  - The Truth About Kent State by Peter Davies  kainah   May-05-06 01:15 AM   #71 
     - Thanks very much.  kath   May-05-06 12:25 PM   #72 
  - Can never forget Kent State student murders...!  Imagevision   May-05-06 12:50 AM   #70 
  - kick  rman   May-06-06 06:47 AM   #73 
  - ttt !!  Blue_Tires   May-06-06 10:31 AM   #74 
  - Ohio , Buffalo SpringField Music Video 'Four Dead In Ohio'  DianaForRussFeingold   May-23-06 08:13 AM   #75 

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