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Reply #12: What is the difference, they just will just issue stop loss orders [View All]

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nolabels Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-16-04 12:55 PM
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12. What is the difference, they just will just issue stop loss orders
Can we say coercion :think:

Damn this letter was a hard to find a link to.

Claim that stop-loss orders are illegal

Are you a member of Bushs "shanghaied" army? Well listen up the following story is for you. The current act of forcing you to stay active through the use of a stop loss order is apparently wrong in more ways than one...

06-16-2004

Getting Screwed By Stop Loss?

CALL FOR PLAINTIFFS TO CONTEST MILITARY "STOP-LOSS" ORDERS
A group of San Francisco attorneys are seeking military service-members who'd be interested in participating as plaintiffs in a legal action contesting the Department of Defense's policy of using "stop-loss" orders to prolong military enlistments indefinitely. Their prospectus follows...


We are looking, ideally, for a service-member from the San Francisco / Northern California area, or whose unit / station is based in this area, who has had their separation, retirement, or maximum active duty period suspended by stop-loss. They may file using a "John Doe" pseudonym if they wish to keep their identity confidential.

The ideal plaintiff, for various reasons including their own interests, would be someone who already has served in Iraq, but who is in the U.S. at present and has yet to be shipped back overseas. However, we can try to work with someone currently overseas.


We know that a legal challenge to stop-loss is going to be tough and may not survive a motion to dismiss by the government, but we feel it is important to present the arguments and see what the courts (and public) think about it. We intend to argue that:

1) Stop-loss violates statutes prohibiting involuntary extensions of enlistment without a declaration of war or national emergency by Congress;

2) The statute granting presidential authority to suspend laws on separation and retirement anytime reservists are serving on active duty unconstitutionally delegates congressional authority to "raise armies" by allowing an involuntary 'draft' of combat veterans at the whim of the executive (and military);

3) Stop-loss is arbitrary and capricious, because the asserted justification is based on false information (or information has been withheld), and therefore violates the due process rights of service-members and the Administrative Procedures Act;

4) Stop-loss breaches service-members' enlistment contracts.

We are aware that there are legal counter-arguments for each of these theories, but they each have a foundation in law, and as importantly, many service-members and their families have arrived at these conclusions without need for legal analysis and thus seem to be based on "common sense."

Interested service-members should contact Marti Hiken or Josh Sondheimer:


JOSHUA SONDHEIMER
Attorney at Law
Law Offices of Michael S. Sorgen

Email: j.sondheimer@sorgen.net
Tel: (415) 956-1360
Fax: (415) 956-6342


MARTI HIKEN
Co-Chair, Military Law Task Force
National Lawyers Guild

Email: mlhiken@pacbell.net
Tel: (415) 566-3732
(snip)
http://www.politicalpuzzle.org/archives/2004/06/attenti...
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  -RockyMtnNews: GIs claim threat by Army krkaufman  Sep-16-04 12:33 PM   #0 
  - They should all start saying that they want to serve like their Commander  Nashyra   Sep-16-04 12:35 PM   #1 
  - They can just "work it out" with the army!  Sparky McGruff   Sep-16-04 01:30 PM   #27 
  - Less and less a volunteer army and more a conscription army. (nt)  w4rma   Sep-16-04 12:37 PM   #2 
  - Conscirption is too fine a word for it --  Eloriel   Sep-16-04 12:46 PM   #10 
     - I'd say it's more like "Blackmail"  0007   Sep-16-04 02:58 PM   #37 
        - Yep  Scairp   Sep-16-04 05:06 PM   #42 
           - I've often wonder how that high suicide rate in Iraq with the  0007   Sep-17-04 11:20 AM   #51 
  - If they sign the agreement, can they go to Harvard for MBAs instead?  Bucky   Sep-16-04 12:39 PM   #3 
  - Can they opt to work on an election in Alabama instead?  denverbill   Sep-16-04 12:41 PM   #5 
     - Moral clarity: "Reenlist, punk, or we'll force you to serve your country!"  Bucky   Sep-16-04 12:59 PM   #15 
  - These people are in a nightmare situation  Mountainman   Sep-16-04 12:40 PM   #4 
  - So, what would happen if everyone said no?  Why   Sep-16-04 12:44 PM   #6 
  - What's going to happen to the 3rd Brigade next year? Or in 2006?  denverbill   Sep-16-04 12:44 PM   #7 
  - Well, do they have to re-enlist, or do they not?  rocknation   Sep-16-04 12:44 PM   #8 
  - This just happened recently to the son of one of my friends.  malachi   Sep-16-04 12:46 PM   #9 
  - Except now they're transferring people out of Korea.  Why   Sep-16-04 01:00 PM   #16 
     - Sounds like you've been to the Land of the Morning Calm.  malachi   Sep-16-04 02:16 PM   #32 
        - 5/17 Cavalry, Yongjugol/Munsan. 1992  Why   Sep-17-04 11:30 AM   #52 
  - Someone posted that same situation here yesterday  kayell   Sep-16-04 12:54 PM   #11 
  - Thank for finding that!  zidzi   Sep-16-04 01:02 PM   #17 
  - What is the difference, they just will just issue stop loss orders  nolabels   Sep-16-04 12:55 PM   #12 
  - And the rocky mountain news is a  zidzi   Sep-16-04 12:57 PM   #13 
  - Probably no more than the Utica Observer-Dispatch  Why   Sep-16-04 01:29 PM   #26 
  - Idiotic method IMO  gtrump   Sep-16-04 12:58 PM   #14 
  - Good rhetorical question.  kayell   Sep-16-04 01:16 PM   #23 
  - Decisions decisions. Go to Iraq till Dec '04, or go fight in Iran in '06.  Bucky   Sep-16-04 01:02 PM   #18 
  - "I support my commander-in-chief"  The_Casual_Observer   Sep-16-04 01:04 PM   #19 
  - They should vote to change him  JoFerret   Sep-16-04 04:21 PM   #41 
  - It's IRAQ either way... sign or not...  annabanana   Sep-16-04 01:09 PM   #20 
  - My son is one of those at fort carson  mexicoxpat   Sep-16-04 01:10 PM   #21 
  - I'm so sorry mexicoexpat...  annabanana   Sep-16-04 01:12 PM   #22 
  - til 2007  mexicoxpat   Sep-16-04 01:56 PM   #30 
     - This is why we have to get this corrupt crew out.............n/t  annabanana   Sep-16-04 02:45 PM   #35 
  - mexicoxpat  Tolania   Sep-17-04 12:15 PM   #55 
  - Intimidation of our own soldiers? Major backfire potential.  vogonity   Sep-16-04 01:19 PM   #24 
  - Your anger is justified, and widespread...  annabanana   Sep-16-04 01:31 PM   #28 
  - Yeah, ought to really help with recruitment. nt  bemildred   Sep-16-04 01:32 PM   #29 
  - Organizational behavior is directed "top-down"  HereSince1628   Sep-16-04 02:47 PM   #36 
  - Either way the will be labeled "cowards" by some chickenhawk  nibbana   Sep-16-04 01:27 PM   #25 
  - Welcome to the United Fascist States of America.  Dhalgren   Sep-16-04 02:06 PM   #31 
  - Forced Contributions to GOP?  nolabels   Sep-16-04 02:22 PM   #33 
  - Not so much "United" - call it Fascist United States of America  vidali   Sep-16-04 07:11 PM   #45 
  - Serves them Right !  nine30   Sep-16-04 02:23 PM   #34 
  - Ah hum, This one sounds strong, double his taxes  nolabels   Sep-16-04 03:18 PM   #38 
  - It *is* harsh. And it's opinion, not fact.  krkaufman   Sep-16-04 04:16 PM   #40 
  - Only those who still support the Neanderthal-in-Chief  nine30   Sep-17-04 11:00 AM   #50 
  - Colorado Springs  Psst_Im_Not_Here   Sep-16-04 07:01 PM   #44 
  - local news did pick up the story  Tolania   Sep-17-04 12:20 PM   #57 
     - That's great!  Psst_Im_Not_Here   Sep-17-04 06:34 PM   #59 
  - Only those who still support the Neanderthal-in-Chief  nine30   Sep-17-04 10:55 AM   #49 
  - just because they are stationed at Ft. Carson  Tolania   Sep-17-04 12:18 PM   #56 
  - Man that's really strange. I thought all of the soldiers couldn't  okieinpain   Sep-16-04 03:46 PM   #39 
  - I heard from a friend last night that his son was threatened like this  sybylla   Sep-16-04 06:12 PM   #43 
  - kick  yardwork   Sep-16-04 10:08 PM   #46 
  - The US military may run out of national guard and reserve troops  dave502d   Sep-16-04 11:14 PM   #47 
  - mamas, don't let your babies grow up to be...troops nt  JSJ   Sep-16-04 11:18 PM   #48 
  - MY HUSBAND IS GOING THROUGH THIS  Tolania   Sep-17-04 11:33 AM   #53 
  - I Don't Know About Anybody Else  jackieforthedems   Sep-17-04 11:39 AM   #54 
  - One word: Conscription!  jdolsen   Sep-17-04 12:29 PM   #58 
  - revenge is sweet  Keirsey   Sep-17-04 07:15 PM   #60 
     - absolutely! Show the rest of the U-S-of-A what the good folks in the....  jdolsen   Sep-17-04 07:34 PM   #61 
  - my brother was in the army in So Korea in the 60s  bobbieinok   Sep-17-04 08:44 PM   #62 
  - another kick  struggle4progress   Sep-17-04 11:22 PM   #63 
 

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